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Mormonism is different, but is it too Christian?
Deseret News ^ | Published: Thursday, June 7 2012 5:00 a.m. MDT | By Joseph Walker

Posted on 06/07/2012 9:24:28 PM PDT by dixjea

While some Christians insist that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not Christian enough, one Christian professor says “Mormonism is obsessed with Christ.”...Stephen H. Webb, says that “what gives Christianity its identity is its commitment to the divinity of Jesus Christ. And on that ground Mormons are more Christian than many mainstream Christians who do not take seriously the astounding claim that Jesus is the Son of God.” “Mormonism is obsessed with Christ,” Webb continues, “and everything that it teaches is meant to awaken, encourage and expand faith in him. ... Webb...says that he came to this conclusion after reading the Book of Mormon. “I was utterly surprised,”... Webb points out the ways in which “the Mormon Jesus is different from the Jesus of traditional Christianity,..."Still,” he writes, “not all heresies are equally perilous. ... If you had to choose between a Jesus whose body is eternal and a Jesus whose divinity is trivial (as in many modern theological portraits), I hope it would be an easy choice.” ... both Davis and Stetzer urged their listeners to “drop the ‘cult’ language,” referring to some in the Christian community who have publicly labeled Mormonism as a “cult.” “We don’t want to demonize people of other religions,” ...there’s really no need for us to engage in an argument.” Unless, of course, you're among those deriving some pleasure from it. "Making Mormons look bad helps others feel good," ..."By imagining Mormons as intolerant rubes, or as heretical deviants, Americans from left and right can imagine they are, by contrast, tolerant, rational and truly Christian," ... "But until Americans work through our contradictory impulses regarding faith, diversity and freedom, there is no reason to believe anti-Mormonism will go away anytime soon."

(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...


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KEYWORDS: christian; mormonism
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"...there’s really no need for us to engage in an argument.” Unless, of course, you're among those deriving some pleasure from it."Making Mormons look bad helps others feel good," wrote J. Spencer Fluhman of the BYU History Department in an article published in the New York Times.

"By imagining Mormons as intolerant rubes, or as heretical deviants, Americans from left and right can imagine they are, by contrast, tolerant, rational and truly Christian," wrote Fluhman,"

..."But until Americans work through our contradictory impulses regarding faith, diversity and freedom, there is no reason to believe anti-Mormonism will go away anytime soon."

1 posted on 06/07/2012 9:24:35 PM PDT by dixjea
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To: Elsie; reaganaut

LDS ping!


2 posted on 06/07/2012 9:26:43 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is a liberal. Just watch him closely try to screw us.)
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To: dixjea

“Christians who do not take seriously the astounding claim that Jesus is the Son of God”

If one does not believe Jesus is the Son of God, then they are not Christian to begin with.


3 posted on 06/07/2012 9:28:12 PM PDT by icwhatudo (This is not a choice between Romney&Reagan-Its between Romney & most radical leftist Pres in history)
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To: dixjea

LOL!

Mormons are not Christians, did you get that?

Mormons are not Christians.


4 posted on 06/07/2012 9:31:38 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: dixjea

I have quite a few good Mormon friends and I respect them but a part of me keeps edging toward their views as being a combination of Christian core beliefs - with the side caveats being written by H.G. Wells and/or Robert Heinlein.


5 posted on 06/07/2012 9:33:26 PM PDT by jongaltsr
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To: dixjea

mormonism is NOT Christianity in any words you would like to say.
mormonISM is not Christianity!


6 posted on 06/07/2012 9:35:47 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: dixjea
Mormonism is obsessed with Christ

Wrong, lds are obsessed with their christ.

The christ that was created by having Mary have intercourse with their god (who was once a man).

The christ that paid the price in the garden, the cross is secondary.

The christ who is not sufficient in himself for salvation and salvation must earned.

mormonism is NOT Christianity.

7 posted on 06/07/2012 9:39:56 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: dixjea

Well, its a curious article. Postmodern to the core. A great example of the left’s aversion to “true truth,” as it is sometimes called.

Note the unfounded presumption that it can’t possibly be that Christians reject Mormon doctrine because it is just flat out wrong, that it is wrong because it cannot be reconciled to the Bible.

No, it must be that those intolerant rubes on the right are just sadistic and want to make Mormons look bad for the sheer pleasure of it. Can you imagine anything more opposed to the conservative’s truth-oriented (as opposed to feeling-oriented) worldview?


8 posted on 06/07/2012 9:54:17 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: dixjea
Mormonism departs from Holy Scripture in a magnitude of ways.

Mormonism:

God the Father is an exalted man (a man who has progressed to godhood) with a body of flesh and bones.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1973 ed., p. 346 - “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man...I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in a form-like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man.”

D & C 130:22 “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also.”

Holy Scriptures:

The Bible is most explicit in stating that God is not a man (Nu 23:19; 1Sa 15:29; Hos 11:9). God the Father, the eternal God is Spirit (Isa 55:8-9; 6:1-5; 57:15; Pss 90:2; 113:5-6; 123:1; Jn 4:24: 8:23) Jesus said that a spirit does not have flesh and bones (Lk 24:39)
_________________________________________________________

Mormonism:

God the Father became a God after learning truth, aggressively pursuing godhood, and being obedient to the laws of the gospel.

Holy Scripture:

God the Father has always existed as such (Dt 33:27; Isa 43:10; 44:6; 45:5, 21; 46:9; Mal 3:6; 1Co 8:4; 1Ti 2:5; Rev 1:8; 21:6; 22:13).

As Psalms 90:2 and 93:2 state, God has been God “from eternity to eternity.”
________________________________________________________

Mormonism:

God the Father has a wife, through whom he procreates spirit children.
“Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are also the offspring of an Eternal Mother. An exalted and glorified Man of Holiness (Moses 6:57) could not be a Father unless a Woman of like glory, perfection, and holiness was associated with him as a Mother” (Mormon Doctrine, 1977 ed., p. 516)

Holy Scripture:

The Godhead determined to make man in their image, not to procreate spirit children (Ge 1:26). Nowhere does Scripture even hint at the existence of an Eternal Mother.
___________________________________________________

The list is lengthy. This is just a sample.

Mormonism is Paganism.

9 posted on 06/07/2012 10:04:01 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: dixjea

Baptism of the Dead???


10 posted on 06/07/2012 10:08:19 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is a liberal. Just watch him closely try to screw us.)
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To: dixjea
Why is it that if you want to do genealogy of your family the first place to go is a Mormon website?

Is there something about their religion and keeping records (even the non mormon records)?

11 posted on 06/07/2012 10:13:13 PM PDT by tsowellfan
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To: dixjea
"...Mormons are more Christian than many mainstream Christians who do not take seriously the astounding claim that Jesus is the Son of God.”

Having spent various amounts of time in just about every flavor of church from Catholic to Charismatic, I think I can honestly say that I've never met a Christian that didn't believe that Jesus was God. The author did use weasel words, however, in saying that many Christians "don't take seriously" the claim that Jesus is God, and perhaps he's asserting that Mormons take the claim more seriously than others. Whatever.

12 posted on 06/07/2012 10:21:07 PM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: dixjea

Roman Catholics Rule on Mormons

Association Press/July 19, 2001

Salt Lake City — The Roman Catholic Church, which recognizes the baptisms of most denominations, has decided that Mormons who convert to Catholicism must be rebaptized.

The Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith decided the Mormon view on the nature of God was too different from its own, according to Tuesday’s editions of L’Osservatore Romano, the Vatican’s daily newspaper.

The doctrine agency said the church could not accept Mormon belief that “God the father had a wife, the Celestial Mother, with whom he procreated Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.” The body therefore decided that Mormon baptism “is not the baptism that Christ instituted.”

Two major U.S. Protestant denominations, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and United Methodist Church, have taken similar stands on Mormon theology in recent years.

Catholicism and most other Christian denominations believe God is a divine entity consisting of three persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - of one spiritual substance.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three separate entities, and that God and Jesus have bodies of flesh and bone while the Holy Ghost is spirit only. Church founder Joseph Smith taught that “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man...”

The Rev. Luis Ladaria, a Jesuit theologian speaking for the Congregation, acknowledged the ruling marks “a change from the past practice” of accepting the Mormon rite.

The congregation took up the matter after receiving a request to look into the validity of Mormon baptisms in conversion. L’Osservatore Romano did not specify the origin of the request.


13 posted on 06/07/2012 10:22:27 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)
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To: tsowellfan

Its about making baby deities. Seriously. Baptism of the dead is merely a means to an end. A long time ago, when my parents were visiting a friend in Utah, my mom was approached by a young man who wanted to know her maiden name. We found out later he was doing the necessary groundwork to have her included in his “harem” on the other side. Sick actually.


14 posted on 06/07/2012 10:34:55 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: dixjea

The sneakiest, most slippery and evasive religions that I have ever run into and tried to look behind the curtain of are Mormonism and The Children of God cults, and the Hare Krishnas.

Mormonism and The Children of God were the most evasive and deceitful.


15 posted on 06/07/2012 10:37:30 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)
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To: Springfield Reformer
Thanks for the info! They are sneaky!

Reminds me of the Somali who saw my name tag "Joseph" at work and promptly asked me if I like pork.

That's their way of asking "Are you a Jew?"

When I told him I liked pork, he smiled and became friendly with me.

16 posted on 06/07/2012 10:40:07 PM PDT by tsowellfan
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To: sickoflibs

Should actually be “baptism *for* the dead,” the belief that certain highly qualified Mormons can be baptized on behalf of people who died without ever becoming Mormons, even from ancient times. This will expand their net membership on the other side. For all we know, Hitler may have been posthumously comverted.


17 posted on 06/07/2012 10:48:28 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer; sickoflibs

“”Current IGI TM Addendum temple ordinance entries for Mr. [Adolf] Hiedler (Hitler) show that Hitler was “baptized” by Mormons on September 30, 1993, and “endowed” on April 27, 1994, in the Jordan River Temple, Utah..... Eva Anna Paula Braun, born in Munich, Bavaria, Germany , on February 7, 1912, was “baptized” by Mormons on October 16, 1964, and “endowed” on February 5, 1965, in the Los Angeles Temple. She had been “sealed” to her parents some time prior to 1970. This information is current and is easily accessible in the IGI TM Addendum, in which file Ashton stated that no information was available for either Hitler or Braun.”” (http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_helenradkey.html)


18 posted on 06/07/2012 11:13:23 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)
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To: jongaltsr

There are a lot of people with different beliefs around. My objections to Mormonism would be lessened if they did not try to say they were Christians. If they posited themselves as a separate religion, it would be better imho


19 posted on 06/07/2012 11:26:59 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: ansel12

Yikes. Who knew.


20 posted on 06/07/2012 11:39:47 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: icwhatudo
>"If one does not believe Jesus is the Son of God, then they are not Christian to begin with"

That's scriptural.

What does J Smith say about the divinity of our Savior?

21 posted on 06/08/2012 12:20:35 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: Cronos

AMEN to that.


22 posted on 06/08/2012 2:55:44 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: dixjea

Yesterday there was a young Mormon man in my neighborhood who had rang my door bell, I told him via my front window in kindest way possible I was not interested. He was holding up a Book of Mormon.


23 posted on 06/08/2012 2:58:28 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: dixjea

Plus the extra scriptures such as the Book of Mormon that is troubling.


24 posted on 06/08/2012 3:00:10 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: tsowellfan

Somalis need to be expelled from the U.S. All of them.

Anyway, muzzies are disgusted by pork, so why did this one respond `favorably’? If you’re not a Jew (and were I not Christian I would have no objection to being Jewish) then in the muzzie’s evil eye you are still an “infidel” and therefore liable to persecution.


25 posted on 06/08/2012 4:09:31 AM PDT by elcid1970 (Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind.")
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: dixjea
Making Mormons look bad helps others feel good," wrote J. Spencer Fluhman of the BYU History Department

Yeah... Sure...



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

27 posted on 06/08/2012 4:20:41 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dixjea
Being a Mormon; makes one feel good!



 

MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
 

  1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
  2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t!
  3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t!
  4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal!
  5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers!
  6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t!
  7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t.
  8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
  9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. —                           -- You can’t.
12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- 
                           -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t.
18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably                              -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going!
21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where.
22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t.
23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple
                            -- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy  (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)
26.  I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).
 
 
Revision 46.5
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.

28 posted on 06/08/2012 4:22:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dixjea
..."But until Americans work through our contradictory impulses regarding faith, diversity and freedom, there is no reason to believe anti-Mormonism will go away anytime soon."

True, dat!

Only when we CHRISTIANS get our heads chopped off! (Revelation 20:4)

29 posted on 06/08/2012 4:24:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dixjea

Some sniveling, spineless weasels REALLY want to expand PC into the SPIRITUAL realm; don’t they!


30 posted on 06/08/2012 4:25:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: jongaltsr
I have quite a few good Mormon friends and I respect them but a part of me keeps edging toward their views as being a combination of Christian core beliefs - with the side caveats being written by H.G. Wells and/or Robert Heinlein.

Stay in these threads; learn more of the things MORMONism wishes would NOT be revealed, and then ALL of you will KNOW the facts about MORMONism and WHY it is a heresy.

Then you'll be able to actually HELP your friends to LEARN the wrong path they are on, and to have the stgrength to get off of it.

31 posted on 06/08/2012 4:29:54 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Springfield Reformer
... it is wrong because it cannot be reconciled to the Bible.

One must be convinced, first, that the BIBLE is wrong, before the LIE of MORMONism can take hold.

Usually having just a very shallow 'knowledge' of the BIBLE is enough, if the 'convincer' is slick enough. (Genesis 3:1)

32 posted on 06/08/2012 4:33:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: tsowellfan
Why is it that if you want to do genealogy of your family the first place to go is a Mormon website?

MORMONism knows how to game the search engines to place IT's stuff first.

33 posted on 06/08/2012 4:35:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: tsowellfan
Thanks for the info! They are sneaky!

Ahh... BYU!

The hotbed of KNOWLEDGE!!


 
 
Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

 
 
Timeline...    Subject...
 
0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."
1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."
2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."


34 posted on 06/08/2012 4:38:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Cronos
My objections to Mormonism would be lessened if they did not try to say they were Christians.

True; but it would STILL be a heresy.


If they posited themselves as a separate religion, it would be better imho

Better? try FACTUAL; instead.

They have their OWN 'god(s)' and their OWN 'christ'.








KJV
Galatians 1:6-9
6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 
ANYBODY???
Like this fine looking fellow???
 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
12. But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 

Like THESE guys??
 
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
 


Ephesians 2:1-2
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

35 posted on 06/08/2012 4:42:54 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: rawcatslyentist
What does J Smith say about the divinity of our Savior?

What does MORMONism say about the divinity of J Smith???


 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."
 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321
 
 
"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."
- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88
 
 
"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
 
 
There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
 
 
"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
 
 
 
"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670
 


They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
 Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

36 posted on 06/08/2012 4:44:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Biggirl
He was holding up a Book of Mormon.

MORMONism makes certain claims about that book; that it contains the FULLNESS of the gospel.

Invite him in and have him SHOW it to you...


...


The above is a plaque, on a statue, in Temple Square, Salt Lake City. Headquarters of the LARGEST group of MORMONs.

37 posted on 06/08/2012 4:50:39 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

Can ya make out the wording on the BOTTOM of the plate?


38 posted on 06/08/2012 4:54:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
Start HERE for becoming a MORMON:


 
 

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541
 
 

  1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
  3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
  4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
  5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
  6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
  7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
  8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
  9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
  10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
  11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
  12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith


 

39 posted on 06/08/2012 4:55:54 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
When you go DEEPER into MORMONism; you'll want to be SURE that you are going to be 'with your faily forever' (it's supposedly a big selling point); so you will DO the things required to insure that YOU are in the top 15% or so of MORMONs with a TR - a Temple Recommend - a highly valued piece of paper.


 

Temple Recommend Questions



1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

40 posted on 06/08/2012 4:59:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
Now that you have your TR; you've SWORN that you keep the WOW - Word of Wisdom; found in OTHER MORMON 'scripture', the highly used Doctrines & Covenants.

It is #89.

When you have a TR; you'll be asble to RESIST the aroma of a backyard cookout by your GENTILE neighbors - ribs sizzleing away over a glowing bed of mesquit...

...by remembering what verse 12&13 tells you:

 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
 
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
 
  1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
  3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
  5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
  7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
  8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
  12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
  14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
  15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
  16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
  19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
  20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.



41 posted on 06/08/2012 5:03:25 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: elcid1970
Anyway, muzzies are disgusted by pork, so why did this one respond `favorably’?

because they hate Jews more than pigs. Because of having to work with them (my city is full of them) I learnt that quickly. After 911 they were trying to blame the Jews for it. I'm Christian. They really do hate Jews more than pork.

42 posted on 06/08/2012 5:05:33 AM PDT by tsowellfan
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To: Elsie
If your young, and want to advance the cause of TCOJCOLDS, you can go on a mission. (Remember Professor BOB from a few replies back?)

You'll get a little rule book to help you stayed focused while you are deprived of the support of family members (You'll be with 'em FOREVER anyway).


The Rules

  1. Learn and obey all missionary rules.
  2. Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
  3. Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
  4. Don't debate or argue.
  5. Center your mind on your mission.
  6. Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
  7. Cut your hair regularly.
  8. Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
  9. Be neat and clean.
  10. Bathe frequently.
  11. Use deodorant.
  12. Polish your shoes.
  13. Iron your shirt and business suit.
  14. Arise at 6:30 A.M.
  15. Study for 2 hours every morning.
  16. Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
  17. Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
  18. Exercise regularly.
  19. Write in your journal regularly.
  20. Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
  21. Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
  22. Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
  23. Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
  24. Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
  25. Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
  26. Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
  27. End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
  28. Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
  29. Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
  30. Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
  31. Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
  32. Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
  33. Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
  34. Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
  35. Stay with your companion during all activities.
  36. Do not go on road trips.
  37. Do not leave your assigned area without permission
  38. Do not watch television.
  39. Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
  40. Do not listen to the radio.
  41. Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
  42. Do not participate in musical groups.
  43. Do not participate in athletic teams.
  44. Do not sponsor athletic teams.
  45. Do not engage in contact sports.
  46. Do not engage in water sports.
  47. Do not engage in winter sports.
  48. Do not engage in motorcycling.
  49. Do not engage in horseback riding.
  50. Do not engage in mountain climbing.
  51. Do not embark on a private boat.
  52. Do not embark in a private airplane.
  53. Do not handle firearms.
  54. Do not handle explosives.
  55. Do not swim.
  56. Do not play full court basketball.
  57. Do not play basketball in leagues.
  58. Do not play basketball in tournaments.
  59. You may play half-court basketball.
  60. Never be alone.
  61. Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
  62. Be loyal to your companion.
  63. Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
  64. Pray with your companion every day.
  65. Study with your companion every day.
  66. Plan your work with your companion every day.
  67. Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
  68. Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
  69. Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
  70. Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
  71. Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
  72. Do not arise before your companion.
  73. Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
  74. Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
  75. Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
  76. Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
  77. Do not flirt.
  78. Do not date.
  79. Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
  80. Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
  81. Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
  82. Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
  83. Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
  84. Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
  85. Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
  86. Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
  87. Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
  88. Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
  89. Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
  90. Do not telephone parents
  91. Do not telephone relatives.
  92. Do not telephone friends.
  93. Do not telephone girlfriends.
  94. Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
  95. Take problems and questions to your mission president.
  96. Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president
  97. Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert.
  98. Obey all mission rules.
  99. Obey the laws of the land.
  100. Do not get involved in politics.
  101. Do not get involved in commercial activities.
  102. Do not give any information about the area.
  103. Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
  104. Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
  105. Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
  106. Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
  107. Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
  108. Be courteous.
  109. Provide community service.
  110. Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
  111. Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
  112. Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
  113. Your mission president must approve your housing.
  114. Keep your housing unit clean.
  115. Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
  116. Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
  117. Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
  118. You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
  119. Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
  120. Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators.
  121. Maintain your health.
  122. Eat a healthy diet.
  123. Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
  124. Follow the approved exercise program.
  125. Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
  126. Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
  127. Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
  128. Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
  129. Be immunized.
  130. Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
  131. Budget your money carefully.
  132. Keep a record of what you spend.
  133. Do not spend more than your companion.
  134. Do not loan money.
  135. Do not borrow money.
  136. Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
  137. Pay your bills before leaving an area.
  138. Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
  139. Do not waste money on souvenirs.
  140. Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
  141. Be a frugal photographer.
  142. Do not accumulate excess baggage.
  143. Obey custom laws and regulations.
  144. Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
  145. Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
  146. Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
  147. Do not drive without a license.
  148. Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
  149. Do not drive members’ cars.
  150. Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
  151. Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars.
  152. Use cars only on approved mission business.
  153. Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
  154. Be conscious of safety at all times.
  155. Drive defensively.
  156. Wear your seat belt.
  157. Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
  158. If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
  159. Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.
  160. Know bicycle safety rules.
  161. Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
  162. Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
  163. Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
  164. Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
  165. Go directly to your new area when transferred.
  166. Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
  167. Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.

43 posted on 06/08/2012 5:06:58 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: tsowellfan; Godzilla; SZonian; Tennessee Nana; Colofornian; reaganaut; P-Marlowe; caww; ...
because they hate Jews more than pigs.

You've evoked memories of the Good Ol' Days on FR; when our MORMON friends volunteered to - Hose the Pigs - to try to get them clean.

44 posted on 06/08/2012 5:11:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

#54????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hofmann


45 posted on 06/08/2012 5:13:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dixjea

At a basic level, you cannot equate polytheism with monotheism.


46 posted on 06/08/2012 5:17:41 AM PDT by Caipirabob (I say we take off and Newt the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...)
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To: ansel12
The sneakiest, most slippery and evasive religions that I have ever run into and tried to look behind the curtain of are Mormonism and The Children of God cults, and the Hare Krishnas.

Mormonism and The Children of God were the most evasive and deceitful.

Is that right?

Perhaps you have been too busy trying to find ways to denigrate and demonize Mormonism to take the time to REALLLY broaden your horizons and take a gander at the "Religion of Pieces," ISLAM?

47 posted on 06/08/2012 6:34:15 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
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To: tsowellfan; svcw; Elsie; Springfield Reformer
Is there something about their religion and keeping records (even the non mormon records)?

The emphasis on genealogy by mormons has at least two motives. One being that every soul must be baptized in the mormon church.

“The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862)

Two, Joseph Smith's brother Alvin died unexpectedly without being a member of any church, and none of the local pastors would assure Smith that Alvin would be saved.

Therefore the doctrine of "baptism for the dead" was invented by Smith.

"In January 1836, many years after Alvin’s death, Joseph Smith received a vision of the Celestial Kingdom, in which he saw that Alvin, as well as his mother and father, would someday inherit that Kingdom. Joseph 'marveled how it was that [Alvin] had obtained an inheritance in that Kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins' (D&C 137:6).

"The voice of the Lord then came to Joseph, declaring:

“'All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the Celestial Kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that Kingdom; for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts' (D&C 137:7–9).

Therefore, every soul that lives or HAS lived must be baptized mormon and every soul that HAS lived must have the "opportunity" to accept the proxy coversion based on birth records.

This also presents the mormon church with a motive for members to be "temple worthy" to perform these proxy "baptisms for the dead" and in order to be temple worthy, members must obey various laws among which is paying ten percent of their income to LDS.Inc in tithing.

48 posted on 06/08/2012 7:42:00 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Until the 52K LDS missionaries claiming Christian faith is bogus quit, I will post LDS truth.)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet; ansel12
Perhaps you have been too busy trying to find ways to denigrate and demonize Mormonism to take the time to REALLLY broaden your horizons and take a gander at the "Religion of Pieces," ISLAM?

Perhaps you are too busy trying to find ways to refute factual posts of mormon doctrine to "REALLLY broaden your horizons and take a gander at the "Religion of Pieces," ISLAM AND THE TIES TO MORMONISM.

1 - A LDS perspective on Muhammed (LDS.org)
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-latter-day-saint-perspective-on-muhammad?lang=eng

2 - U.S. Muslims share friendship, similar values with Mormons (LA Times, published in 2008)
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/02/local/me-morlims2

3 - Mormonism and Islam: Commonality and Cooperation Between Abrahamic Faiths (March 10 & 11, 2011 - Utah Valley University)
http://www.uvu.edu/religiousstudies/mormonismandislam/

4 - Ask a Mormon: What do Mormons think of Muslims (March 2010 - MormonWoman.org)
http://mormonwoman.org/2010/03/15/ask-a-mormon-woman-what-do-mormons-think-about-islam/

5 - Mormons and Muslims break fast together (Ramadan 2010 - Deseret News)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705386347/Mormons-Muslims-break-the-fast-in-Southern-California.html

6 - Islamic Translation Service (Brigham Young University)
http://meti.byu.edu/islamic.php

7 - Muslims attending BYU focus on similarities between Islam, LDS tenets (Deseret News - Dec 2009)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353014/Muslims-attending-BYU-focus-on-similarities-between-Islam-LDS-tenets.html

49 posted on 06/08/2012 7:57:18 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Until the 52K LDS missionaries claiming Christian faith is bogus quit, I will post LDS truth.)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

You mean while describing my personal life experience?

Of course Mormonism and The Children of God were the most evasive and deceitful cults that I have run into. I have spent much time with Mormons, and trying to get to the truth is an exercise in futility, they weave and dodge, and keep serving that Milk before Meat stuff.

My experience with the Children of God cult was a rare opportunity that few Americans have had but Mormons are an aggressive cult and dealing with them is much more common, almost unavoidable.


50 posted on 06/08/2012 8:16:10 AM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)
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