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Bones of John The Baptist Possibly Discovered
ABC News Online ^ | June 16, 2012 | Russell Goldman

Posted on 06/16/2012 6:14:34 PM PDT by Aliska

A team of researchers believe a knuckle bone found buried beneath a Bulgarian church may belong to John the Baptist, the New Testament prophet who heralded the ministry of Jesus.

(Photo Included in article)

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: ancientautopsies; baptist; bones; discovered; godsgravesglyphs; john; johndbaptist; johnthebaptist
I thought this was hopeful but didn't know relics were honored that early. I don't have anything to add to the discussion but thought it worth posting, was hoping somebody would, think not.
1 posted on 06/16/2012 6:14:43 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Salvation; Quix

ping also the Catholic list. I can’t think offhand Protestant FReepers but think they’d be interested, too.


2 posted on 06/16/2012 6:18:43 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska; zot

The British “Daily Mail” had this story 3-4 days ago. I consider it interesting speculation only.


3 posted on 06/16/2012 6:19:32 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Aliska

There’s no reason to assume that this means relics were honored that early. The Crusaders dug up plenty of stuff centuries later and shipped it back to Europe.


4 posted on 06/16/2012 6:22:50 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Aliska

If the head is still intact we know that the bones discovered are NOT those of John the Baptist. How can they tell from just a knuckle bone?


5 posted on 06/16/2012 6:22:50 PM PDT by madison10
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To: madison10

They can’t, strictly speaking. There’s circumstantial evidence and tradition that associate it with John, and when they tested them, they dated to the 1st century.


6 posted on 06/16/2012 6:26:54 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Aliska

Sweaty Ivan is Bulgarian for John the Baptist?


7 posted on 06/16/2012 6:30:09 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: Aliska

I have nothing to add to the subject of relics that wasn’t said better by Geoffry Chaucer in his “Pardoner’s Tale”.

“He had a cross of latten set with stones,
And in a glass a handful of pig`s bones.
But with these relics when he had in hand
Some humble parson dwelling in the land,
In one day he could get more revenue
Than would the parson in a month or two.”


8 posted on 06/16/2012 6:33:10 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: All
First I'd heard of it, I don't assume it's true but neither do I assume it's not true. I thought about if they find a head . .. .but well it's grisly but maybe they got the whole body back for burial. We aren't told.

Could be another hoax. But if not, If Elizabeth was Mary's 1st cousin (not sure about that either), then Jesus and John would have been first cousins once removed.

9 posted on 06/16/2012 6:34:22 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: All
First I'd heard of it, I don't assume it's true but neither do I assume it's not true. I thought about if they find a head . .. .but well it's grisly but maybe they got the whole body back for burial. We aren't told.

Could be another hoax. But if not, If Elizabeth was Mary's 1st cousin (not sure about that either), then Jesus and John would have been first cousins once removed.

10 posted on 06/16/2012 6:34:43 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: donmeaker

Sorry for the double post following yours. I’m familiar with that but if sound testing and science was used they would at least know if they were human bones. The dates checked out as did the location. But I’m ever the skeptic.


11 posted on 06/16/2012 6:37:19 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska

I’m sorry - why is this important to any Christian? Does it make any more or less true Christ’s death and resurrection?


12 posted on 06/16/2012 6:45:25 PM PDT by jagusafr ("Write in Palin and prepare for war...")
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To: Aliska

No, the children of first cousins are second cousins. The first cousins once removed are Elizabeth and Jesus; Mary and John.


13 posted on 06/16/2012 6:56:00 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: jagusafr
Does it make any more or less true Christ’s death and resurrection?

No.

14 posted on 06/16/2012 6:57:15 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska

Seriously, how can they build such an elaborate theory on a knuckle bone?

Its almost as bad as the evolutionistas inventing an “ape man” from a pig’s tooth.


15 posted on 06/16/2012 6:59:48 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they were.)
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To: kabumpo
You are correct. I should have thought of that because one of my second cousins I'm more aware than with other second cousins that his father and my father were first cousins.

I'd just always thought for no particular reason that John and Jesus were first cousins then realized that couldn't be and got it wrong. Thanks for the correction.

16 posted on 06/16/2012 7:01:57 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: editor-surveyor
Well if they'd dug it up out of the dirt I'd think the same. But it was in some kind of box with the engraving. Which could be another hoax of course. And I sure didn't know the route of any bones being transferred, especially to Bulgaria.

Sigh. I don't like the analogy to pig's tooth because they tested the dna and would know it's a good probability that they are human bones.

17 posted on 06/16/2012 7:14:41 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska
"And Moses took Joseph's bones with him: because he had adjured the children of Israel, saying: God shall visit you, carry out my bones from hence with you." Exodus 13:19

"And when he was come home he took a sword, and divided the dead body of his wife with her bones into twelve parts, and sent the pieces into all the borders of Israel. And when every one had seen this, they all cried out: There was never such a thing done in Israel from the day that our fathers came up out of Egypt, until this day: give sentence, and decree in common what ought to be done." Judges 19:29-30

"And some that were burying a man, saw the rovers, and cast the body into the sepulchre of Eliseus. And when it had touched the bones of Eliseus, the man came to life, and stood upon his feet." 4 Kings 13:21

18 posted on 06/16/2012 7:40:10 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
I was reminded of those verses when I looked it up on yt and found one by pastor with surname of Begley. So relics (bones) were almost sacred (I don't think we are to worship them but venerate them).

My reaction on seeing the photo was sadness that they were in such poor condition. Also read elsewhere that the bones were found outside the box. Also another site I'm not familiar with said there were a few more bones, an ulna, tooth, piece of er cranium, and that they all tested as belonging to the same man.

Doesn't prove they belonged to John the Baptist but doesn't prove they don't. The pastor suggested they could be a harbinger of the soon coming of Christ just as John the Baptist was a harbinger of the man Jesus Christ who was about to embark upon his mission.

I guess I like to believe something is true then give it some time. Often I find I've been wrong but if serious red flags don't go up, try to keep an open mind. With God all things are possible.

19 posted on 06/16/2012 8:00:20 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska

As I understand, they got and processed DNA from the bones and determined the age of the bones. The result was that the bones were those of a Mideastern man who died in the first century. The next step is to try and test other bones supposedly belonging to John the Baptist (of which there are many). Should he get a match he can claim the bones are likely those of John. There is no known means of positive proof at this day and age.


20 posted on 06/16/2012 8:03:33 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: GreyFriar

Thanks for the ping. I agree that it is interesting speculation.


21 posted on 06/16/2012 8:29:11 PM PDT by zot
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To: Aliska

Hmmmmm

But he ain’t “there!”

LOL.

Praise God for His Resurrection and His Blood enabling all who will, to join in it.


22 posted on 06/16/2012 8:43:27 PM PDT by Quix (Time is short: INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

I guess, though, the leading candidate doesn’t win by a head.


23 posted on 06/16/2012 8:48:16 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: Aliska
Thanks for posting if this helps people to pick up their bibles it can be a good thing. I have what I call signal graces or sign posts myself at times. Which all of us with faith know about.

This could be a signal grace for secular types to read the bible.

It is interesting that John the Baptist who came in the spirit of Elijah has his bones being talk about in the secular media.

Also Elijah is the precursor of the coming of the Lord.

Rumored since the early fathers to even today to be one of the two witnesses of the book of Revelation. Hmmmmmm.

Why If I was a Man of Faith. I might wonder/sarc. LOL!

24 posted on 06/16/2012 9:52:40 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: All; Aliska; Salvation; Quix
Wow!

Photobucket

Here is an interesting coincidence!

I just found this article. It seems John the Baptist's Head is in a Church that was Converted into a Mosque where a flashpoint of Scripture prediction of this nation is now in the news.

Syria

"The head of John the Baptist thus was brought to Damascus where a thriving Christian Church was in existence, and the people all revered John the Baptist as a Prophet. The head of John was placed in an ornate gilded Sepulcher, in the Church that became known as the "Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist."

This building changed hands several times during the centuries, and in 1966 the Umayyad was a Muslim Mosque, and still held the Shrine; allegedly with the Head of John, when I personally visited the Mosque. Certainly my Muslim guide asserted that it was there, but no one questioned the fact that this was indeed the shrine of the head of John the Baptist."

Interesting to say the least.

25 posted on 06/16/2012 10:16:17 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

http://globalchristiancenter.com/lesser-known-bible-people-series/what-happened-to-john-the-baptists-head.html


26 posted on 06/16/2012 10:17:28 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: All; johngrace

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Mosque


27 posted on 06/16/2012 10:20:39 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: aruanan

Hmmmm. Yeah.

UNLESS heads on silver platters count?


28 posted on 06/17/2012 1:36:42 AM PDT by Quix (Time is short: INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Aliska
We saw what was claimed to be Mary Magdelene’s toe in a church in central France. Fabulous church but I couldn't even swear it was a toe. How do they think this is John the Baptist knuckle and not someone else?
29 posted on 06/17/2012 5:18:19 AM PDT by Ditter
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To: Aliska

This headline is misleading. It should say, ‘Unearthed Bones Possibly Those of John the Baptist.”


30 posted on 06/17/2012 5:24:22 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: donmeaker

Chaucer actually believed strongly in the usefulness of relics. He just didn’t like hucksters who took advantage of innocent people. It is interesting how modern anti-Catholic bigots cherish the Pardoner’s tale and are almost completely ignorant of the Pasron’s tale. Then again, anti-Catholics are ignorant so I guess I should be surprised.


31 posted on 06/17/2012 5:28:19 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Aliska; NYer

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Aliska. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


32 posted on 06/17/2012 9:59:57 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Ditter; All
They think it is only a possibility and that because they apparently were not in as I thought but outside a box with an engraving on it.

I too well know how relic claims came to be what they were and almost always dissed them. There was money in it. It's too bad because 1000 fakes doesn't mean 1 might not be genuine if there were some way of proving it. We just don't know.

So I wonder who got to the box first and if the island is inhabited. If the bones were lying nearby outside a box, could have been robbers and perhaps took something of more value. But the box itself could be of value or a fake like it was determined some of those ossuaries found some time back were. There wasn't enough information to know.

That's a good idea to compare the dna to other claims although I won't get too excited about it just like those little metal books appear from a Jordan cave and now I haven't heard anything about them for some time.

In this age especially, we have to guard against deceptions though.

33 posted on 06/17/2012 11:35:36 AM PDT by Aliska
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To: vladimir998

So, those who care more about the risen Savior than dead men’s bones are “anti-Catholic bigots.”

To hell with Rome. May Christ be exalted above all.


34 posted on 06/17/2012 4:27:14 PM PDT by Theo (... with Liberty and Justice for all.)
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To: Theo

You wrote:

“So, those who care more about the risen Savior than dead men’s bones are “anti-Catholic bigots.””

No, you see, I care more about the Risen Savior than I do about the relics of saints, but I don’t choose to speak ignorantly or rashly about relics just because I do.

“To hell with Rome.”

See, that right there proves my point. I don’t want any city to go to hell. But hatred could blind a person - even a person who a second earlier implies he cares “more about the risen Savior” - to wish a whole city of people to go to hell. If that isn’t bigotry, what is?

“May Christ be exalted above all.”:

He’s exalted always, but not by people hoping others would burn in hell for all eternity.


35 posted on 06/17/2012 4:48:22 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998

Cute.

Have you ever used the phrase “home to Rome”? If so, then you know what I mean.

Is not the head of your denomination living in Rome?

May you proclaim Christ more than you proclaim your denomination.


36 posted on 06/17/2012 6:22:23 PM PDT by Theo (... with Liberty and Justice for all.)
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To: Theo

You wrote:

“Have you ever used the phrase “home to Rome”?”

No.

“If so, then you know what I mean.”

The bigotry expressed was obvious.

“Is not the head of your denomination living in Rome?”

I have no denomination. And no, the pope does not live in Rome. He lives in Vatican City as a matter of fact.

“May you proclaim Christ more than you proclaim your denomination.”

Since I have no denomination and never will - I’m not a Protestant after all - that is always the case. No one, however, can properly proclaim Christ without talking about His Church. That’s the way He wanted it.


37 posted on 06/17/2012 7:10:06 PM PDT by vladimir998
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