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Op-Ed: Mitt Romney's proposed career path President, then God [White House-->Great White Throne]
DigitalJournal.com ^ | June 15, 2012 | Bill Schmalfeldt

Posted on 06/19/2012 10:07:14 AM PDT by Colofornian

Washington- Mitt Romney's Earthly goals seem to mesh nicely with his goals as a high priest in the Mormon church. But why don't we pretend to let the presumptive GOP candidate tell us himself, which he would if he were interested in discussing his religion.

Hello. I’m Mitt Romney. I am a Temple Mormon, a High Priest, and as such I have sworn blood oaths of sacrifice, obedience and consecration to the church and the “Kingdom of God.” My perfect obedience to these laws will allow me to become a god in the next life, the literal father of the peoples of a new and different earth. I am truly a Presidential candidate with an actual, definable god complex. What I say about politics are things I have actually said. What I say about Mormonism is compiled from official Mormon texts and websites.

Since prophets have said I am destined to be your president, it is important to know what I believe.

1. We can fix the economy if we have fewer cops, firefighters and teachers.

2. I made Massachusetts drop from 36th to 47th out of the 50 state in jobs when I was governor. I want to do the same for America.

3. Mormon leaders call our empire the “Kingdom of God.” However, our “God” is an extraterrestrial from Kolob; and the “Zion” to which our spirit-brother-of-Lucifer Jesus Christ will return to reign is Independence, Missouri. Buy land there NOW!

4. When I’m elected, and you try to get insurance with a preexisting condition, you’re screwed.

5. It’s a sin to drink coffee.

6. I love when trees are the "right height."

7. I don’t know what a donut is.

8. We can balance the budget by increasing spending on defense and cutting taxes the wealthy by raising taxes and cutting benefits for the poor and middle class.

9. God has a flesh and blood body. And he’s just one of several Gods.

10. I don’t remember what I said, but I stand by it.

11. The Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri. It’s STILL a nice place.

12. I will make more jobs. It’s not just because I love job creators, it’s because I love jobs.

13. Obama modeled the Affordable Care Act after what I did in Massachusetts. That means it’s bad.

14. I wear special underwear, like all Mormons. But I’m not allowed to speak of it.

15. God commands against lying. But it’s OK when I lie about what Obama says because he’s a negro and negroes weren’t even human until the 12 Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints said they were in 1978, which is after Obama was born, so YOU do the math.

16. Gay marriage is wrong. The definition of marriage was set by God as one man to one woman.

17. My great-grandfather had several wives.

18. My great-great grandfather was one of the original Mormon apostles, and HE had 12 wives.

19. I believe we can get health care to act more like a consumer market, and if we do that and we stop making it like a big government-managed utility, we’re going to see better prices, lower costs and better care. It’s happened everywhere we’ve applied consumer-market principles. Like… the oil companies. Have you ever paid LESS for a gallon of gas than you are now?

20. “I believe that states have responsibility to care for people in the way they feel best. It’s important for us, in my view, to make sure that every American has access to good health care. And no, saying that the government should make sure every American has access to good health care while saying that the states have the responsibility to care for people in the way they feel best are NOT mutually exclusive statements.”

21. If your marriage is sealed in the temple, then you will be married forever, in whichever of the three heavens God decides you belong in.

22. Oh, and when you die as a Mormon, you get your own planet and become a God. Really.

23. We were all spirits before we were born and lived with God, who used to be a human but attained Godhood. God sent us to Earth at a time predetermined by him so we could get experiences that we couldn’t possibly get hanging out with God, who is capable of all things, except, of course, for providing us with experiences that we can only get on Earth. Although you WERE worthy to live with God as a spirit BEFORE he sent you to Earth, you have to live on EARTH to PROVE you are worthy to hang out with God forever. See? It’s easy when you stop TRYING to think.

24. The LDS Church teaches that at the end of the world everyone will be resurrected. They also believe that almost everyone will go to heaven, which is divided up into three main levels. Bad people go to the lowest, the Telestial Kingdom (Doctrine and Covenants 76:81-86). Good people, who were not Mormons, will go to the middle level, the Terrestrial Kingdom (D&C 76:71-79). Mormons will go to the highest level, the Celestial Kingdom (D&C 76:50-70). However, only those who merit the highest part of the Celestial Kingdom will have Eternal Life [the ability to live in a marriage relationship and continue to beget children—see D&C 132:20-24, also see Mormons Hope to Become Gods of Their Own Worlds]. All others have immortality [which is defined as the ability to live forever in a single condition, not married and no future children] but do not have Eternal Life. One must be married in the LDS temple and then obey all of the Mormon regulations to get to the highest degree of heaven. The first time a Mormon attends the temple endowment ceremony he/she will be given a new name [usually a Bible name like Peter or Mary or the name of European royalty]. These will supposedly be their names in eternity. The wife must tell her husband her new name, and no one else, as he is supposed to call her up in the resurrection. If he does not call her up she would still resurrect, but not as his wife. When a Mormon returns to the temple, on various occasions, to go through the endowment ceremony, he/she will stand in by proxy for a dead person. For instance, a man may be going through the ritual in behalf of his dead uncle. A new temple name would be assigned to the dead person, which could be Joseph, David, Paul, etc. In the case of a dead woman, a Mormon woman would stand in by proxy for her, and the dead woman would be given a new temple name, like Rachael, Eve, Rebecca, etc.

25. My ultimate goal is not the Presidency. It is, like all Mormons, to become a god and procreate for all eternity. Lotsa boinkin’! Woo hah!

Now, let's enjoy a brief video about how I was flummoxed while trying to identify a tasty-appearing chocolate-covered pastry devices. They look quite delicious, I’m telling ya!

This opinion article was written by an independent writer. The opinions and views expressed herein are those of the author and are not necessarily intended to reflect those of DigitalJournal.com


TOPICS: Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: godjob; inman; lds; mittromney; mormon
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And this is who the GoP-E decided would be our top "rep" as a so-called credible conservative?

From the article: Hello. I’m Mitt Romney. I am a Temple Mormon, a High Priest, and as such I have sworn blood oaths of sacrifice, obedience and consecration to the church and the “Kingdom of God.” My perfect obedience to these laws will allow me to become a god in the next life, the literal father of the peoples of a new and different earth. I am truly a Presidential candidate with an actual, definable god complex. What I say about politics are things I have actually said. What I say about Mormonism is compiled from official Mormon texts and websites....25. My ultimate goal is not the Presidency. It is, like all Mormons, to become a god and procreate for all eternity...22...when you die as a Mormon, you get your own planet and become a God. Really.

From the article: 23. We were all spirits before we were born and lived with God, who used to be a human but attained Godhood. God sent us to Earth at a time predetermined by him so we could get experiences that we couldn’t possibly get hanging out with God... Although you WERE worthy to live with God as a spirit BEFORE he sent you to Earth, you have to live on EARTH to PROVE you are worthy to hang out with God forever. See? It’s easy when you stop TRYING to think.

From the article: 13. Obama modeled the Affordable Care Act after what I did in Massachusetts. That means it’s bad.

1 posted on 06/19/2012 10:07:27 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
(Yeah, I knew this angle would be coming from the moderates & liberals on social issues...):

16. Gay marriage is wrong. The definition of marriage was set by God as one man to one woman. 17. My great-grandfather had several wives. 18. My great-great grandfather was one of the original Mormon apostles, and HE had 12 wives.

Let's see if Mitt continues to toss ALL of his polygamous relatives under the bus for failing to honor God's definition of marriage as one man to one woman...OR...he could do what he did in Massachusetts...and not put up a fuss with homosexual marriage...and in fact, grease its wheels for its entry...

2 posted on 06/19/2012 10:10:48 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
President, then God

As opposed to Obama, who believed he was God and therefore was owed the Presidency.

3 posted on 06/19/2012 10:13:11 AM PDT by kevkrom (Those in a rush to trample the Constitution seem to forget that it is the source of their authority.)
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To: Colofornian

THX 1138 the march continues - place marker


4 posted on 06/19/2012 10:22:50 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: kevkrom; All
As opposed to Obama, who believed he was God...

Well, technically, Mormon "prophets" from John Taylor (3rd Lds "prophet") to Spencer W. Kimball (12th Lds "prophet") all taught that Mormon males -- like Harry Reid and Mitt Romney -- are actually already "gods in embryos."...They just gotta get all growed up to be-a-full grown god.

So...Obama may believe he's a god...he may act like one...but you'd have to quote me chapter-and-verse to actually say he's widely teaching this...unlike the place that Romney gives $millions to...the Mormon church...

The false gospel of Mormonism...supported -- and now endorsed -- by millions and millions of voters...

(Oh, and btw, if Obama converted to Mormonism, the Mormons would proudly -- and loudly -- proclaim Obama's godhood, too!)

5 posted on 06/19/2012 10:24:43 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
why don't we pretend to let the presumptive GOP candidate tell us himself…?

Um, because that would be a logical contradiction and more than a little specious.

6 posted on 06/19/2012 10:34:44 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: kevkrom
As opposed to Obama,

Too true...


7 posted on 06/19/2012 10:37:43 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr; kevkrom

(So you both oppose the “gospel” of Obama — but not the false “I’m a god” ‘gospel’ of Mitt Romney)


8 posted on 06/19/2012 10:43:45 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: D-fendr

Millions of Americans and news media talking heads worship government as God.

It is pounded into the heads of children through government schools. We used to have 3 times daily bowing to Washington with the morning Noon and evening news. Now we have multiple channels 24/7.

It will be interesting when their god fails them.


9 posted on 06/19/2012 10:53:23 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: Colofornian

In my Church, we oppose heretical teaching.

In politics, the Church teaches there are non-negotiables on some government policies.

In neither do I justify not voting for a candidate solely because he is a member of the LDS church.

If you do, do you advocate voting for Obama, sitting it out, or voting for whom?


10 posted on 06/19/2012 11:07:28 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: listenhillary
Thanks for your post.

worship government as God.

I would say they worship man - as the ultimate authority for truth. Humanism. Government as the instrument of man to 'perfect' man. The foundation for much suffering.

Yes, when their god fails...

11 posted on 06/19/2012 11:10:22 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Colofornian

Everything you have said is true. God have mercy upon us, we are faced with picking a Communist or a Cult leader who believes he is going to become “god” of his own planet as the next Presedent of the USA. For the record, attacks on Romneys so-called Mormon “religion” are fair game, as is dealing with Obamessiah’s Wright Black Liberation Theology Islam.


12 posted on 06/19/2012 11:16:44 AM PDT by Jmouse007 (Lord deliver us from evil, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: D-fendr
...do you advocate voting for Obama, sitting it out, or voting for whom?

I will likely vote for Virgil Goode of the Constitution Party...
...I do not advocate ANYBODY sitting out the election...
...I do not advocate ANYBODY voting for Obama...
...and I do not advocate ANYBODY voting for Romney...
...tho I'll at least understand why voters in swing states would...
...I'll NEVER understand why FREEPERs in either liberal states -- or conservative states (all non-swing states) -- would vote for Romney...

There is NO (as in ZERO) case to do so.

13 posted on 06/19/2012 11:24:42 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
Actually, the first point of knowing Romney should include his genuine acceptance of the Constitution; he will not impose his religious beliefs on the nation. He will honor the Constitution, UNLIKE the current president.
14 posted on 06/19/2012 11:29:50 AM PDT by budj (beam me up, scotty...)
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To: Colofornian
Actually, the first point of knowing Romney should include his genuine acceptance of the Constitution; he will not impose his religious beliefs on the nation. He will honor the Constitution, UNLIKE the current president.
15 posted on 06/19/2012 11:30:05 AM PDT by budj (beam me up, scotty...)
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To: Colofornian

thanks for your reply.

So far as it is effective, your advocacy results in success for the agenda of the current regime.

We are required to seriously consider the results of our actions as well as the actions themselves.

So I don’t grant your position moral or religious high ground. Quite the contrary.


16 posted on 06/19/2012 11:31:39 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Colofornian

Colofornian ... You appear to be extremely obsesssive compulsive. I’ll bet that the hatred/distortions you regularly spew are a reflection of your own life.


17 posted on 06/19/2012 11:38:35 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country)
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To: listenhillary; D-fendr; Jmouse007; All
Millions of Americans and news media talking heads worship government as God. It is pounded into the heads of children through government schools. We used to have 3 times daily bowing to Washington with the morning Noon and evening news. Now we have multiple channels 24/7. It will be interesting when their god fails them. [listenhillary]

I think we saw the momentary height of this in the immediate aftermath of Katrina...when NOLA-ites & the MSM expected govt to be people's god and bush to be their personal savior.

If Romney becomes prez...and he prays to a false god for whate'er may "benefit" the United States, it'll be interesting not only when the Mormon god fails to deliver -- which is a guarantee -- but also when the ONE TRUE GOD may become a bit riled that so many people would expect a man with a false god to lead them to the economic promised land.

THAT -- is part & parcel of the idolatry going on here...not only that so many would endorse a man pretending and portending to be a GOD, but that they would trust the god of this man to deliver them economically.

How sad...

In politics, the Church teaches there are non-negotiables on some government policies. In neither do I justify not voting for a candidate solely because he is a member of the LDS church. [D-fendr]

And how sad that the god of d-fendr only is interested in certain policy non-negotiables, apparently NOT which god that POTUS will -- as THE leader of the Free world -- appeal to in case of dire emergencies...in case of drought...in case of massive wildfires...in case of major earthquakes...in case of massive terrorist attacks...in case of an even worse economic free-fall...

I guess that's just all seismology and meteorology and economics and forestry -- things your church doesn't have positions on, eh, D-fendr???

18 posted on 06/19/2012 11:38:35 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: teppe
Teppe, Mr. Mormon. I love you. God loves you. Jesus loves you.

Name-call all you want. I'll still love you in the TRUE Jesus Christ.

19 posted on 06/19/2012 11:40:28 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

All heretics’ theology includes a false god or false view of the true God. I’m not certain that your own Christology is not heretical.

Not all who call themselves Christian, LDS included, have an orthodox Christology.

I wouldn’t exclude them from consideration for public office whether they be LDS, Jew, Deist, Dispensationalist, Calvinist, etc.

I would prefer that all political leaders share my religion, that would be best. But I’m not voting for them for a clerical position, but a public one.

Your responses on this and other threads indicate to me the position of someone who singles out one heretical church, or religion contrary to their own, for special exclusion.

I don’t share this view; I believe it to be subjective in application. And, in the case of this election, harmful to the republic.

thanks for your reply.


20 posted on 06/19/2012 11:50:59 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Colofornian

The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created BY Him.

The lds-org is a thief of the Name and the Truth of Jesus Christ.

21 posted on 06/19/2012 11:59:18 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: D-fendr
...your advocacy results in success for the agenda of the current regime. We are required to seriously consider the results of our actions as well as the actions themselves.

Well, we actually agree here -- to some degree -- we just apply lines & boundaries in apparently distinct places.

For example, I would say that your advocacy -- and others, for example, politically ...results in success for the agenda of the current Republican RINO regime. I would add your phrase "We are required to seriously consider the results of our actions as well as the actions themselves" to that as well.

You see, AnyBODY WHO CARTE-BLANCHE -- with no state-by-state qualifiers -- advocates Romney is indeed highly promoting RINOism as the complete takeover of conservatism...for which they will be held accountable by God for such political relativism.

There is no need to advocate for conservatives on the Left Coast -- or Nevada, NY, NJ, Maryland, parts of New England to vote for Romney, who will lose those states, anyway. Thus, the hand of the GoP-E in those states...however weak...remains...

There is no need to advocate for FREEPER conservatives in the Southern states (except Florida) -- or Western states -- or many Midwestern states ... to vote for Romney. I'm talking about those states in which Obama has no chance. FREEPERs in these states who vote for Romney vs. principle merely strengthen the regime hand of RINOism.

I can make strong cases even advocating for Romney in swing states is a pro-liberal, pro-RINO, pro-big govt, pro-govt healthcare, pro-abort thing to do...but I'm choosing here at least to argue on the SAME grounds those who are voting on an anti basis argue: Practical Utilitarian Political Relativism.

Furthermore, D-fendr, IF you and I agree on these verses' implications -- that the so-called "political" rule of this world extends further than we think (and I'm not just talking about God)...
* 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (2 Cor. 4:4)
* 19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (1 John 5:19)

And...IF that rule can readily extend itself in various ways via the false god of THE leader of the free world...

Then...your application is applied even with "boundaries" you weren't even thinking about -- namely Satan's regime -- when you said:

...your advocacy results in success for the agenda of the current regime. We are required to seriously consider the results of our actions as well as the actions themselves.

22 posted on 06/19/2012 12:00:22 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: D-fendr
I’m not certain that your own Christology is not heretical.

(I'm not running for THE leader of the free world, am I?)

All heretics’ theology includes a false god or false view of the true God

(Which doesn't simply translate to things floating about in ethereal region...but translates to real prayers -- to true and false gods...answered or neglected...and to real guidance and counsel offered -- or denied -- by the living God)

Tell me something...does the Bible tell us to glorify God with only theological and religious things?...or are we to glorify God in all we do? Then tell me: Is the TRUE God (or Christ) usually glorified by the actions of a heretic who would give credit for his good works to a flesh-and-bones guy who was once a sinner and eventually got the God job?

I wouldn’t exclude them from consideration for public office whether they be LDS, Jew, Deist, Dispensationalist, Calvinist, etc.

We're not talking about running for your local dog catcher here; but leader of the free world...Nor, btw, do I detect ANY national campaign sweeping across America to preclude Mormons, Jews, deists, dispensationalists, and Calvinists to run for your local dog-catcher.

IOW...you raise here -- by perfect innuendo -- a straw man...addressing some political office "crusade" that I see nobody on...Where are the crusaders of such a strawman campaign?

...I’m not voting for them for a clerical position, but a public one.

How "neat" that would work if you could reduce "ministry" (which just means "service") to some "religious" mechanism...as if 'twas only some parochial duty. (Guess you better get on the Britons' case for calling their leaders "Prime MINISTERS" ... comes a wee bit too close to "clerical" service, eh?)

23 posted on 06/19/2012 12:17:52 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

I don’t see how actions that help further the survival of the Obama regime glorifies God. Just the opposite.

So, again, I don’t think your argument occupies the moral or spiritual high ground.

No, you’re not running for office, but you seem to be saying only those who share your Christology, your view of the One True God, should be voted for. So whether your views are heretical matters - if one is to decide whether to follow your pronouncements.

If applied consistently under the axiom of “true God,” your logic would include not voting for Jews because they are Jews and deists because they are deists.

I don’t think you would support this, which illustrates that your argument requires a subjective twist. Which makes it not a very effective argument.

thanks for your reply.


24 posted on 06/19/2012 12:34:26 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
No, you’re not running for office, but you seem to be saying only those who share your Christology, your view of the One True God, should be voted for

Never said that...Besides, I already told you (on another thread) there are Jews who worship the same God Christians do...

That would hardly qualify as some claim to vote for only those who share my Christology.

All I can conclude then...is either your memory can't extend even to a week ago...

Or, since this is the second strawman you have introduced in this thread, apparently you have some difficulty in addressing the REAL concerns as expressed within this thread and therefore have had to create weak ones to try to bolster your points.

25 posted on 06/19/2012 12:44:46 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Wasn’t one of your main points that he pray to the One True God? Wouldn’t this require that he share your view of the One True God?

>>” there are Jews who worship the same God Christians do...”

Then they would be Christians.


26 posted on 06/19/2012 12:47:43 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Colofornian

In looking the previous thread, your emphasis was “saving-faith” relationship with the True God, relationship with, etc. rather than my ‘pray to...’

I think the point remains the same.


27 posted on 06/19/2012 12:57:11 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
Wasn’t one of your main points that he pray to the One True God? Wouldn’t this require that he share your view of the One True God?

So are you claiming that my view of the ONE True God -- and say, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob's view of the One True God -- has to be in perfect alignment -- or else all those prayers they uttered in the Old Testament need to somehow need to have "white-out" applied to them???

28 posted on 06/19/2012 12:57:39 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

I’m saying that Christians believe God is the Most Holy Trinity, the Triune God.

I think your argument here is becoming quite thin. I would think the response is obvious, but I’ll be brief:

Do practicing Jews hold that Jesus is God?

Do practicing Jews believe the Holy Spirit is God?

Do (orthodox) Christians share their views above?

Therefore, are the two religions view of the One True God the same or different?


29 posted on 06/19/2012 1:06:38 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: budj

Are you sure?


30 posted on 06/19/2012 1:43:20 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: teppe

Please state what is hate and what are distortions.
You make the charge, tell us what is correct then.


31 posted on 06/19/2012 1:44:52 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: D-fendr
Do practicing Jews hold that Jesus is God?

Did Old Testament practicing Jews believe in a special Angel of the Lord theophany + THE Messiah to come?

Do practicing Jews believe the Holy Spirit is God?

After reading these verses, what do you think?
* Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them. (Isaiah 63:10)
* Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me. (Psalm 51:11)

You have to remember that the Pharisees and Teachers of the Law distorted parts of that faith; therefore, a Jewish candidate can either go "liberal" -- like many Jews do today...or they can go "Pharisee" like...legalistic...or they can recover the faith of the One True God of the Old Testament -- one that reveals the Holy Spirit (Is. 63:10; Ps. 51:11) as well as the Messiah.

Bottom-line: TRUE Judaism doesn't discount Isaiah 63:10 and Psalm 51:11. And, as for the Messiah, if somebody thinks He only suddenly appeared on the Jewish scene about 2,000 years ago, may I recommend a few books?
* Christ B.C.: Becoming Closer Friends with the Hidden Christ of the Old Testament by Bill Myers (Regal Books)
* Knowing Jesus Through the Old Testament by Christopher J.H. Wright (InterVarsity Press)

Therefore, are the two religions view of the One True God the same or different?

(Surely by now you've heard the term, Judeo-Christian right???)

32 posted on 06/19/2012 2:00:27 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

So there is no difference between Jewish and Christian theology? If not, what is the difference?

Are you really going to argue that Jews are really Christians believing in the Triune God?

Thanks for your reply.


33 posted on 06/19/2012 2:17:33 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

“I don’t see how actions that help further the survival of the Obama regime glorifies God. “


Obama = Romney. They both support spending trillions of dollars on healthcare. They both support Bernanke, Keynesian economics, big government, amnesty, and pathological lying. Ergo, it doesn’t matter. No matter who you vote for (or don’t vote for) we’re going to collapse the way the Europeans are doing now... and it’s not going to be pretty.

Once our economy is disfigured permanently, we won’t be able to afford to fund defense spending. Which, perhaps, was the point all along. We will be vulnerable, therefore, to a Russian and Chinese first strike.

So not only do we have serfdom to look forward to, but possibly losing a world war.

Mittens thinks he is going to establish Zion for the LDS, but the schmuck is an economic moron just like Obama with no real reforms being offered. Romney being a Mormon wouldn’t be so noticeable an issue as it is if he wasn’t also so utterly immoral. He sabotaged Palin so Obama could get the Presidency, and he lies to our faces and says whatever needs to be said to get the vote. It makes his cult all the more obvious.


34 posted on 06/19/2012 2:19:29 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: D-fendr
So there is no difference between Jewish and Christian theology? If not, what is the difference?

(Never said there was...anymore than I would contend that "there's no difference between Christian denominational theologies" ... Calvinists, for example, stress more the sovereignty of God than an Arminian)

Now am I saying Judaism is "just another" Christian denom? (No) Am I saying that some Jews worship the same God Christians do? (Yes)

You seem to get hung up on the phrase "the study of" (theology)

Lots of illiterates thru the centuries have worshipped THE TRUE and LIVING GOD without having a fine-tuned "theOLOGY"...Lots of pre-schoolers and early primary kids have worshipped THE True and Living God without having a fine-tuned "theOLOGY"...

Can a Jewish candidate know this God enough to worship Him? (Yes) Can a Jewish candidate know this God enough to live with Him forever minus trusting the Messiah? (John 14:6; 17:3 seem to cast doubt on that)

You're not saying that Jewish candidates -- upon praying/appealing to God for relief, help, aid, etc... -- are calling upon a false god, are you?

35 posted on 06/19/2012 2:29:28 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian; D-fendr
You're not saying that Jewish candidates -- upon praying/appealing to God for relief, help, aid, etc... -- are calling upon a false god, are you?

In fact, let me emphasize that question again -- and then encourage you to answer that question

36 posted on 06/19/2012 2:32:05 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: RaisingCain

thanks for your post.

Sorry, but folks who say “Obama = Romney” lose me right there. It’s just preposterous.

>>>”Mittens thinks he is going to establish Zion for the LDS..”

Perhaps according those like the article author who “pretend to let the presumptive GOP candidate tell us himself…” But as I said earlier here that’s a logical contradiction and more than a little specious.

Maybe a reporter will ask him if that’s his intention. I see no indication that Romney is running for president on such a religious agenda.

Or, perhaps, Romney needs to make the LDS equivalent of Kennedy’s Houston speech to the Protestant ministers [”..no Catholic prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic how to act..”)].

Would that assuage you?


37 posted on 06/19/2012 2:33:49 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Colofornian

>>”Am I saying that some Jews worship the same God Christians do? (Yes)”

Which ones? The Christian ones?

:)


38 posted on 06/19/2012 2:36:22 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Colofornian
My great-grandfather had several wives.

Seems to be a requirement for the office nowadays.

39 posted on 06/19/2012 2:45:58 PM PDT by x
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To: D-fendr
Which ones? The Christian ones? :)

Let me ask it this way, then: Does Christianity portend to worship the God of the Old Testament?

40 posted on 06/19/2012 2:54:18 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: D-fendr
Over the last two threads we've discussed, I've answered a LOT of your Qs...So please -- if you would -- answer this one:

You're not saying that Jewish candidates -- upon praying/appealing to God for relief, help, aid, etc... -- are calling upon a false god, are you?

41 posted on 06/19/2012 2:55:55 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: D-fendr

“Sorry, but folks who say “Obama = Romney” lose me right there. It’s just preposterous.”


What’s preposterous is your desperate attempt to cover up Romney’s record. Once Obozo is out of office and the short term elation is over and done with, people will realize that they’re right back to where they started. Have fun with that, suckers.

This is an election cycle, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.


42 posted on 06/19/2012 3:03:21 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: D-fendr; RaisingCain
Mittens thinks he is going to establish Zion for the LDS... [Raising Cain]

I see no indication that Romney is running for president on such a religious agenda. [D-fendr]

Doesn't really matter what Romney's own personal agenda might be; the "prophet" in Salt Lake City trumps it.

...perhaps, Romney needs to make the LDS equivalent of Kennedy’s Houston speech to the Protestant ministers [”..no Catholic prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic how to act..”)]. [D-fendr]

Raising Cain, you're on the right track. For those who want to compare the relationship of the Mormon "prophet" to a Mormon POTUS to that of a Pope to a Catholic POTUS...would need to argue -- from the track record -- that there exists a propensity, desire and inclination for popes to overreach politically.

Notice these posters never do that...they toss out what they think might be comparable; but 'tis an argument from total silence.

Me? I don't argue from silence. I let the Mormon "prophets" and general authorities do the talking...I even just added a 2001 Lds church published quote from a 19th century "prophet"...so you know when the Lds church is highlighting a quote in 2001...it's not just yesteryear doctrine. And NOTE: Most of the quotes below were published by official LDS sources in Mitt Romney's adult lifetime...meaning THIS is the cultural water he has been swimming in as an Lds "bishop"

Lds Leader Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words)
John Taylor Lds 'Prophet' #3 “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862)
John Taylor Lds 'Prophet' #3 The LDS Church -- in 2001 -- thought it well to pull this quote from John Taylor to emphasize it: "The Lord...is desirous to show us how to save ourselves, how to bless ourselves temporally and spiritually, intellectually, morally, physically, POLITICALLY..." (Lds Church owned Deseret News, Nov. 19, 1865, p. 2, as quoted in Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor (2001, p. 178). Also from p. 178: "The idea of strictly religious feelings with us, and nothing else, is out of the question...Our religion is more comprehensive than that of the world...it embraces all the interests of humanity in every conceivable phrase..." (Original source: The Gospel Kingdom, 1943, p. 168)
Orson Hyde President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53)
Heber J. Grant Lds 'Prophet' #7 "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984)
Harold B. Lee Lds 'Prophet' #11 ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989)
Spencer Kimball Lds 'Prophet' #12 "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983)
What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984)
Ezra Taft Benson Lds 'Prophet' #13 Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet
Benson (cont'd) Fundamental #5 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney?)
Benson (cont'd) Fundamental #9 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt?)
Benson (cont'd) Fundamental #10 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt?)
B.H. Roberts LDS Historian and Seventy. Note: Roberts was an elected Democratic Congressman from Utah in 1898 -- but was NEVER seated by Congress because of grass roots uproar vs. Roberts, who took a THIRD simultaneous wife in the early 1890s. Grass roots America collected 7 MILLION signatures on 28 banners and presented them to Congress...in pre-mass media 1800s! “[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a POLITICAL INSTITUTION THAT SHALL HOLD SWAY OVER ALL THE EARTH; TO WHICH ALL OTHER GOVERNMENTS WILL BE SUBORDINATE AND BY WHICH THEY WILL BE DOMINATED.” The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180
Mitt Romney as POTUS??? Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."]

43 posted on 06/19/2012 3:12:18 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
Does Christianity portend to worship the God of the Old Testament?

Not the same interpretation of the Old Testament for sure, not the same revelation of God - else there would be no need for the New Testament. Both Christian and Jew await the (return of) messiah, but for Christians Jesus Christ is the Messiah, true God from true God. This is true revelation for Christians, but blasphemy for Jews reading the Old Testament, as we see most dramatically in the events as told in St. John's Gospel.

44 posted on 06/19/2012 3:35:49 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Colofornian
I think the answer to your question is obvious - at least for orthodox Christians. Jews do not pray to, do not call upon, do not worship the Christian God, most specifically Jesus Christ, "true God from true God" as is clear from the Nicene Creed, fundamental faith of orthodox Christianity, anathema to practicing Jews:
"We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father."
As you noted from the Gospel of John, this is what makes us two different religions and two quite different views of a "saving relationship with the true God." St. Paul was on the road to Damascus in large measure due to this difference.

When he set out he did not think he was persecuting the true God. Afterward...

Again, I think it beyond obvious that Jew and Christian have a quite different belief on what "true God" is and means.

45 posted on 06/19/2012 3:41:48 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Colofornian
Doesn't really matter what Romney's own personal agenda might be; the "prophet" in Salt Lake City trumps it.

And the pope trumps Newt and Santorum..

We've been here before.

Does Mitt need to give a JFK speech? Would that matter to you?

46 posted on 06/19/2012 3:44:04 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: RaisingCain
This is an election cycle, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Yes, the ultimate in hopelessness: for Macbeth all life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.

So why bother?

Well, I don't agree with Macbeth here; rather, I am with Andrew Breitbart on the significance of this election.

Thanks for your reply.

47 posted on 06/19/2012 3:54:08 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

“Yes, the ultimate in hopelessness: for Macbeth all life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.

So why bother?

Well, I don’t agree with Macbeth here; rather, I am with Andrew Breitbart on the significance of this election.

Thanks for your reply.”


I’m talking about the election, not your or anyone elses life. If you want to have blind faith in the god-child to end all the practices that he himself has supported and even continues to support, despite all the evidence to the contrary, go right ahead.


48 posted on 06/19/2012 4:32:02 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: Colofornian
For those who want to compare the relationship of the Mormon "prophet" to a Mormon POTUS to that of a Pope to a Catholic POTUS...would need to argue -- from the track record -- that there exists a propensity, desire and inclination for popes to overreach politically.

"Overreach" according to whom and going how far back?. I'm tempted to link to google searches on pope or rome "overreach" politically. :) Certainly, there are many who would say the Catholic Church has overreached politically - up to today.

But, no, your framing here is in error.

The comparison in my point is those who *believe* that a politician will subjugate his political decisions to the leadership of his church - the LDS in one case; the Latin Church in the other.

It's easy to show that some Protestant/non-Catholic believed this in regard to Kennedy. You can also research the same for Al Smith.

And you on this forum illustrate the corollary belief concerning Romney and the LDS leadership/church.

Both Smith and Kennedy faced vocal opposition from those in other churches who believed they would subjugate political decisions to their church leaders. They both delivered speeches to deny it.

My question is if Romney did the same, would that assuage your concern?

49 posted on 06/19/2012 4:47:19 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: RaisingCain
If you want to have blind faith in the god-child to end all the practices that he himself has supported and even continues to support,

There is one certainty: it takes even more faith, or something else, to believe President Obama will.

thanks for your reply.

50 posted on 06/19/2012 4:51:57 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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