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Is Mormonism Christian? A Comparison of Mormonism and Historic Christianity
Institute for Religious Research ^ | 2012

Posted on 06/19/2012 12:39:12 PM PDT by Colofornian

Is Mormonism Christian? This may seem like a puzzling question to ask. Mormons include the Bible among the four books they recognize as Scripture and insist that Jesus Christ is central to their faith as evidenced by their official name, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, Mormons’ commitment to high moral standards and strong families is impressive. Doesn’t it follow that Mormonism is genuinely Christian?

The question here is not whether individual Mormons are saved (a question we cannot answer) or whether the LDS Church is “Christian” in the sense that any group that professes faith in Christ (as Mormonism does) is part of the world religion known as Christianity. Rather, we are asking whether Mormonism is an authentic form of Christianity that teaches the essential truths of the gospel. To resolve this question, we need to compare carefully the basic doctrines of Mormonism with the basic doctrines of historic, biblical Christianity. To represent the Mormon position fairly and accurately, in addition to the Mormon scriptures (Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price), we have relied on several well-known Mormon doctrinal publications currently published by the LDS Church, including its official magazine Ensign.

1. Is there more than one true God?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have always believed that only one true and living God created and rules all things and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, though personally distinct, are one God, the Lord Jehovah (Genesis 1:1-31; Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10-11; 44:6-8, 24; Matthew 28:19-20; John 1:1; 10:30; 20:28; Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 8:4-6; 2 Corinthians 3:17-18; 13:14).

By contrast, Mormonism teaches that many Gods made the world (Book of Abraham 4:1-31) and that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate Gods (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 41-42). It also teaches that the Father has a wife, our heavenly mother, and that we are “literally” the offspring of divine parents (Ensign, Jan. 1989).

2. Was God the Father once a man like us?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have always believed that God is Spirit (John 4:20-24; 1 Timothy 6:15, 16) and in His divine nature is not a man (Numbers 23:19; Hosea 11:9; Romans 1:22-23), and that He has always (eternally) existed as the all-powerful God (Psalm 90:2; 102:12, 25-27; Isaiah 40:28; 43:10; 1 Timothy 1:17).

By contrast, the LDS Church teaches that God the Father was once a man like us who progressed to become a God and has a body of flesh and bone (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22). It affirms Joseph Smith’s teaching that God is “an exalted being” who “was once a man like us,” and Lorenzo Snow’s statement, “As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be” (Gospel Principles [2009], 275, 279; Presidents of the Church Student Manual [2003], 89; Teachings of Presidents of the Church: George Albert Smith [2011], 71).

3. Are Jesus, Satan, and all mankind spirit brothers?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have always believed that Jesus is the unique Son of God, the only human being who came down from heaven to become a man (John 3:31; 13:3; 16:28; 17:5). As God, Jesus Christ made everything, including all spiritual powers such as the angels as well as Satan, who rebelled against Him (Psalm 148:2-5; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16). Human beings start to exist at the beginning of their physical lives (Genesis 1:26-27; 2:7; Job 38:4-7).

By contrast, the LDS Church teaches that Jesus Christ, humans, angels, and fallen spirits including Satan are all eternal beings that were never created and that are all spirit brothers and sisters. In particular, Christ and Lucifer (Satan) were two spirit brothers; Christ supported Heavenly Father’s plan while Lucifer did not (Doctrine and Covenants 93:21-33; Gospel Principles [2009], 9-10; Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 355; “I Have a Question,” Ensign, June 1986).

4. Was Jesus literally the physical offspring of Mary and God the Father?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have always believed that the eternal Son of God, Jesus Christ, became a man by being conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary by the supernatural creative agency of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18-23; Luke 1:34-35).

By contrast, the LDS Church teaches that Jesus Christ is “the Only Begotten Son of the Father in the flesh,” meaning that He was the literal “offspring” of the Father and Mary, “sired” by Heavenly Father as his only son in the flesh, so that he had two literal, physical parents—his immortal Father and his mortal mother Mary. The LDS Church denies that Jesus was “begotten” by the Holy Ghost, since it understands “begotten” literally to mean sired by a physical father (Ensign, April 1997; Ezra Taft Benson, in Ensign, Dec. 2001; Gospel Principles [2009], 53; Ensign, Dec. 2010, 8).

5. Was the fall of Adam and Eve a great blessing?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the disobedience of our first parents Adam and Eve was a great evil. Through their fall, sin entered the world, bringing all human beings under condemnation and death. Thus we are born with a sinful nature, and will be judged for the sins we commit as individuals. (Ezekiel 18:1-20; Romans 5:12-21).

By contrast, the LDS Church teaches that Adam’s sin was “a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us” (Book of Mormon—2 Nephi 2:14-26; Book of Moses 5:10-12; Preparing for Exaltation: Teacher’s Manual [1998], 13-14; Gospel Principles [2009], 29).

6. Can we make ourselves worthy of God’s forgiveness?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the forgiveness of our sins and eternal life in God’s presence is a free gift of God on the basis of Jesus Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross (John 3:16; Romans 3:21-26; 5:6-11; 6:23; Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14; Titus 3:4-7; Hebrews 10:12, 19; 1 John 1:9). We cannot earn or be worthy of God’s forgiveness, but must receive this gift by acknowledging our helpless, sinful state and trusting solely in Christ (Luke 24:47; John 11:25-26; Acts 2:38; 16:31; Romans 10:9-13). Those who trust in God’s grace in Christ alone for their salvation will show their faith by their good works, but those works in no sense save them (Romans 6:1-4; Ephesians 2:8-10; James 2:14-26).

By contrast, Mormonism teaches that a person must become worthy in order to obtain forgiveness of sins and eternal life in the presence of God the Father through obedience to all the commands of the LDS Church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals. Good works and ritual ordinances are requirements for this full, individual salvation, and Christ’s atonement makes up what is lacking in a Mormon’s best efforts (Book of Mormon—2 Nephi 25:23; Articles of Faith 3; Gospel Principles [2009], 62-65, 109-112, 277-78).

7. Does the atonement assure immortality for those who reject Christ?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that Christ’s atoning death on the cross provides the complete solution for humankind’s sin problem, but that those who reject God’s grace in this life will have no part in this salvation but are under God’s judgment for eternity (John 3:18, 36; Hebrews 9:27; 10:26-27; 1 John 5:11-12).

By contrast, Mormonism teaches that the atonement assures resurrection and immortality to all people, including those who reject Christ in this life. While only faithful Mormons and those who accept the Mormon gospel in the afterlife can live in God the Father’s presence, practically everyone else will be given immortality in a heavenly kingdom of lesser glory, even those who rejected Christ in this life (Doctrine & Covenants 76; 88:16-33; Gospel Principles, 61-62, 242-44, 271-73).

8. Are there scriptures more reliable than the Bible?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the Scriptures that preserve the words of the ancient prophets and apostles and of Jesus Christ himself (contained in the Bible) are the unique, final, and infallible Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17; Hebrews 1:1-2; 1 Peter 1:23-25; 2 Peter 1:20-21; 3:15-16). God’s providential preservation of the text of the Bible was marvelously illustrated in the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

By contrast, the LDS Church teaches that the Bible has been corrupted, is missing many “plain and precious parts,” and does not contain the fullness of the gospel (Book of Mormon—1 Nephi 13:26-29; Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 206; Gospel Principles [2009], 45-48). It also claims that the Book of Mormon is more accurate and reliable than the Bible (Articles of Faith 8; Book of Mormon Teacher Resource Manual [2004], 20).

9. Is the LDS Church the only true church?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the true church was divinely established by Jesus and could never and will never disappear from the earth (Matthew 16:18; 18:15-18; 28:18-20; John 15:16; 17:11; Ephesians 3:21; Jude 3). Christians acknowledge that there have been times of corruption and apostasy within the church, but believe there has always been a remnant that held fast to the biblical essentials.

By contrast, the LDS Church claims to be the only true church on earth and that all other churches are part of a great apostasy that prevailed throughout church history until Joseph Smith. It teaches that only Mormons are authorized to preach the gospel or to perform baptisms and other ordinances (Doctrine & Covenants 1:29-30; Articles of Faith 4-5; Joseph Smith—History 1:18-19; Gospel Principles, 67, 92).

10. Can humans become gods just like their Heavenly Father?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that God is an absolutely unique being, existing from eternity to eternity as God (Psalm 90:2; 102:25-27; Isaiah 40:18, 25; 43:10). Redeemed human beings, though they will become perfected creatures bearing God’s image and like Christ in moral and physical perfection, will not become gods or beings of the same transcendent, divine nature as the Father, Jesus the Son, or the Holy Spirit (Matthew 5:44-48; Romans 8:14-29; 2 Corinthians 3:18; 5:17-21; Philippians 3:7-21; 2 Peter 1:3-7).

By contrast, the LDS Church teaches that faithful Mormons who fulfill all of their spiritual, moral, and ritual obligations can eventually attain the status of gods, beings of the same essential nature as God the Father ruling over their own worlds. “As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be” (Lorenzo Snow, in Presidents of the Church: Student Manual [2004], 88, 90; Gospel Fundamentals [2001], 201; Gospel Principles [2009], 275-79; Teachings of Presidents of the Church: George Albert Smith [2011], 71).

Conclusion

Mormons share some common beliefs and values with orthodox Christians. They believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose bodily from the grave. They are pro-life. We respect Mormons as good neighbors and good citizens. However, that respect should not keep us from recognizing the serious differences between Mormonism and historic Christianity. There are fundamental and irreconcilable differences between the two. The LDS Church’s founder, Joseph Smith, forced this issue when he claimed to be a prophet of God with new revelations that impugned the trustworthiness of the Bible, contradicted the teachings of historic Christianity, and claimed

that only the LDS Church was the true church. Jesus Christ and his apostles specifically warned us about false prophets who would claim to speak in his name but who would teach “another gospel” (Matthew 7:15-23; 2 Corinthians 11:4, 13-15; Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Peter 2:1). As documented here, Mormonism teaches a radically different view of God, Christ, and salvation. It denies the validity of all churches except itself and all baptisms other than its own. Based on this evidence, we are convinced that Mormonism represents just such a counterfeit gospel.

Mormons are free to believe as they choose—a freedom we have no desire to infringe—and to consider themselves to be the only true Christian church. By the same token, however, those who accept the historic Christian faith taught in the Bible have the freedom and responsibility to draw a clear line between authentic Christianity and the unbiblical religion of Mormonism.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ministry/Outreach; Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: christian; falsegospel; heresy; inman; lds; mormon
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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From the article: The question here is not whether individual Mormons are saved (a question we cannot answer) or whether the LDS Church is “Christian” in the sense that any group that professes faith in Christ (as Mormonism does) is part of the world religion known as Christianity. Rather, we are asking whether Mormonism is an authentic form of Christianity that teaches the essential truths of the gospel. To resolve this question, we need to compare carefully the basic doctrines of Mormonism with the basic doctrines of historic, biblical Christianity. To represent the Mormon position fairly and accurately, in addition to the Mormon scriptures (Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price), we have relied on several well-known Mormon doctrinal publications currently published by the LDS Church, including its official magazine Ensign.

From the article: Mormons share some common beliefs and values with orthodox Christians. They believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose bodily from the grave. They are pro-life. We respect Mormons as good neighbors and good citizens. However, that respect should not keep us from recognizing the serious differences between Mormonism and historic Christianity. There are fundamental and irreconcilable differences between the two. The LDS Church’s founder, Joseph Smith, forced this issue when he claimed to be a prophet of God with new revelations that impugned the trustworthiness of the Bible, contradicted the teachings of historic Christianity, and claimed that only the LDS Church was the true church. Jesus Christ and his apostles specifically warned us about false prophets who would claim to speak in his name but who would teach “another gospel” (Matthew 7:15-23; 2 Corinthians 11:4, 13-15; Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Peter 2:1). As documented here, Mormonism teaches a radically different view of God, Christ, and salvation. It denies the validity of all churches except itself and all baptisms other than its own. Based on this evidence, we are convinced that Mormonism represents just such a counterfeit gospel. Mormons are free to believe as they choose—a freedom we have no desire to infringe—and to consider themselves to be the only true Christian church. By the same token, however, those who accept the historic Christian faith taught in the Bible have the freedom and responsibility to draw a clear line between authentic Christianity and the unbiblical religion of Mormonism.

The 10 evaluative comparisons done here -- where CURRENT Lds published teachings are included -- are on these 10 questions:

1. Is there more than one true God? (Lds say "yes")

2. Was God the Father once a man like us? (Lds say "yes")

3. Are Jesus, Satan, and all mankind spirit brothers? (Lds say "yes")

4. Was Jesus literally the physical offspring of Mary and God the Father? (Lds say "yes" -- tho some deny this and some Mormons may not believe it)

5. Was the fall of Adam and Eve a great blessing? (Surprisingly, this, too, is "official" and current Lds doctrine!)

6. Can we make ourselves worthy of God’s forgiveness? (This thought is littered thruout the writings of past Lds "prophets...and found in the Book of Mormon as well)

7. Does the atonement assure immortality for those who reject Christ? (Lds believe that resurrection is somehow always "positive" when the KJV book of John says there's a resurrection unto "damnation"...hardly a "degree of glory")

8. Are there scriptures more reliable than the Bible? (Notice that Joseph Smith said the Bible needed a rewrite from him personally -- and is the ONLY "scriptures" in their "Articles of Faith" that needs the "insofar as correctly translated" disclaimer)

9. Is the LDS Church the only true church? (Lds Doctrine & Covenants makes this claim)

10. Can humans become gods just like their Heavenly Father? (This is CURRENT Mormon teaching as well)

1 posted on 06/19/2012 12:39:22 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

I dont know.

But as long as they aren’t imposing any of their beliefs on others or trying to engage in a Mormon Jihad by slicing up infidels, then I don’t really care.

It seems they are mostly about strange underwear, having really nice teeth, and making lots of money anyway.


2 posted on 06/19/2012 12:49:24 PM PDT by VanDeKoik (If case you are wondering, I'm STILL supporting Newt.)
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To: Colofornian

Since we have a Mormon running for President, I guess it justifies tearing apart the Mormon church? Did we do this with any other Presidential candidate? Why now? Or is it just some people attempting to pull Romney down?


3 posted on 06/19/2012 12:50:23 PM PDT by RC2 (Buy American and support the Wounded Warrior Project whenever possible.)
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To: RC2

Haven’t you heard? CoJCoLDS is “The Other”.


4 posted on 06/19/2012 12:54:47 PM PDT by 1raider1
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To: RC2
Since we have a Mormon running for President, I guess it justifies tearing apart the Mormon church? Did we do this with any other Presidential candidate? Why now? Or is it just some people attempting to pull Romney down?

#1...being a descendent of Mormon pioneers, I've been posting on Mormonism on FR since before '07...tho it's true once Romney jumped in in '07 (+ all the polygamy stories, etc.), Mormonism certainly HAS been more commonly in the news on a daily basis these past 5.5 years.

#2...Question right back atcha: Since we have a Mormon running for President, I guess it justifies non-Mormons becoming apologists for Mormonism, eh?

5 posted on 06/19/2012 1:01:29 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

6 posted on 06/19/2012 1:08:06 PM PDT by frankenMonkey (This tagline for rent. Inquire within.)
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To: Colofornian

Ya know something, I have probably argued with more mormans about their theology than you have, cuz of my age. I have debated with them, sent them copies of the “Golden Bible” and the “19th Wife”, et. al.

The problem that I have with posting in a political forum, is that mormon’s, although they are misguided, which I know they are, and know that they are wrong, when it concerns the Bible, the BOM and the DOC and the POGP are trash. If you don’t know the acronymns I will be happy to explain it.

However, They, on a whole, are upright citizens. They believe in family values more than most that call themselves “Christians”, and are more dedicated to their cause than most of the supposed conservatives I have been around. I am glad to debate with them, discourage them from what they believe, but always in a nice way.

But if anyone thinks that i will vote for a fascist-islamist over mitt romney, or hold my nose and not vote, you must be kidding.

I will not defend mormanism, for what they believe, but most of them I have met have been upstanding citizens. Which is more than I can say for most of the idiots that are allowed to vote.

I will vote for Romney. The rest of u can just not vote and let the islamic fascist to have another four years.

Blessings, Bobo


7 posted on 06/19/2012 1:10:04 PM PDT by bobo1
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To: RC2
The article is clear in distinguishing the doctrinal differences between Christianity and Mormonism. Reinforces that Mormons are good people, etc.

Standing up for the rights of Mormons to believe what they want, but also serving as a warning to Christians about the differences in order to avoid being deceived about the true doctrines of Mormonism.

I only wish I had this kind of information before I became a Mormon.

//Signed//

An ex-Mormon

8 posted on 06/19/2012 1:13:17 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: VanDeKoik; All
But as long as they aren’t imposing any of their beliefs on others...

Who says Lds, Inc. doesn't impose its beliefs on little Mormons, big Mormons, and would-be Mormons?

Circa 1999:
”…in the Lord’s Church there is no such thing as a ‘loyal opposition.’ One is either for the kingdom of God and stands in defense of God’s prophets and apostles, or one stands opposed” (Lds “apostle” M. Russell Ballard, “Beware of False Prophets and False Teachers,” Ensign – Conference Ed., Nov. 1999 p 64)

[No disagreement tolerated. You cannot speak vs. a Mormon leader…you must, robot-like, be in 100% conformity!!! Elsewise you are deemed “disloyal”]

Circa 1984:
“No true Latter-day Saint will ever take a stand that is in opposition to what the Lord has revealed to those who direct the affairs of his earthly kingdom. No Latter-day Saint who is true and faithful in all things will ever pursue a course, or espouse a cause, or publish an article or book that weakens or destroys faith.” (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Conference Report, October 1984, p. 104)

Ah, such "fragile faith" -- IF EVERY single article or book content needs to go through a legalistic filter of how it's going to potentially effect the end-user -- the reader -- re: if it might be perceived as "weakening" a challenged faith!!!

Circa 1979:
"I would like to tell you something about the way the Church operates from headquarters. We often hear the Church referred to as a democracy, when in reality, instead of being a church where the body is governed by officers elected by the members, the Church is a THEOCRACY..." (First President Lds N. Eldon Tanner, "The Administration of the Church," Ensign (Conference edition) Nov. 1979 p. 42

Well, that makes ya wonder who would occasionally call ultimate shots if a Mormon was in the White House, doesn't it?

Circa 1978-1979:
“Recently, at the Churchwide fireside meeting held for the women of the Church, Young Women President Elaine Cannon made the following statement: ‘When the Prophet speaks…the debate is over (Ensign, Nov.1978, p. 108). I was impressed by that simple statement, which carries such deep spiritual meaning for all of us. Wherever I go, my message to the people is: Follow the Prophet” {First President N. Eldon Tanner, “The Debate is Over,” Ensign, August 1979 p. 2)

For the true Christian, wherever we go, we say, “Follow the Lord Jesus Christ as a disciple of Him” -- not a mere Salt-Lake City-based man [who MUST reside in the Salt Lake City area!]. Our message is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, how He came to earth as an ever-living God-man – the ONLY SON of God who bodes no pre-existent brother rivals, died for our personal sins, and was raised to the same glory He shared with the Father before all was (John 17:5).

Circa 1963:
"'The holy Priesthood is a system of laws and government that is pure and holy;...' (JD7:202) - 'a perfect law of THEOCRACY.' (Joseph Smith's Teachings, p. 322)" (As cited by William J. Critchlow, Jr. Assistant to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, Conference Reports October 1963, p. 28)

Circa 1960, citing an earlier Lds time as well:
"President Heber J. Grant once said, 'Always keep your eye on the President of the church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, even if it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it…” (quoted by First President Marion G. Romney, Conference Report, October 1960, p. 78).

Circa 1945: "He [Lucifer] wins a great victory when he can get members of the Church to speak against the leaders and do 'their own thinking.' He specializes in suggesting that our leaders are in error while he plays the blinding rays of apostasy in the eyes of those whom he beguiles. What cunning! And to think that some of our members are deceived by this trickery...WHEN OUR LEADERS SPEAK, THE THINKING HAS BEEN DONE. (Spoken @ a convention of Lds teachers: Ward Teachers Message, Improvement Era, June 1945 p. 354)

Circa 1900: "We sustain President Lorenzo Snow as the mouthpiece of God. Therefore, when he has anything to say to us as the mind and will of the Lord, it is just as binding upon us as if God spake personally to us (Abraham O. Woodruff, Conference Reports, April 1899 p. 7)

[Ah, forced feeding like little children]

9 posted on 06/19/2012 1:14:38 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Christianity has to be the stupidest pack of lies.


10 posted on 06/19/2012 1:16:04 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live thnrough it anyway)
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To: frankenMonkey
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's great!!!!!!!!!!!

11 posted on 06/19/2012 1:16:04 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Christianity has to be the stupidest pack of lies.


12 posted on 06/19/2012 1:16:38 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live thnrough it anyway)
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To: Colofornian

always good to have a sense of humor around here!


13 posted on 06/19/2012 1:24:20 PM PDT by frankenMonkey (This tagline for rent. Inquire within.)
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To: bobo1
The problem that I have with posting in a political forum...

(Please note: This was posted in the Religion Forum)

They, on a whole...believe in family values more than most that call themselves “Christians”, and are more dedicated to their cause than most of the supposed conservatives I have been around

You know it's quite funny...A LOT of posters hint that we -- in posting about the individual Mitt Romney -- should largely ignore the corporate Mormonism he is a part of.

But then posters like you come along -- and highlight the corporate Mormons -- asking me (in essence) to ignore the individual Mitt Romney.

What do I mean exactly?

Well, Mitt Romney was making pro-abortion kinds of statements 12 months into his first POTUS campaign and over three years after a so-called "pro-life 'conversion'." Sorry...Bobo...but abortion and touting it isn't exactly a "family value." Right?

And -- if people want me to evaluate Mitt Romney based upon who Mitt Romney is -- then why do they suddenly switch eval filters and start conveying that we should evaluate Mitt Romney upon the pro-life/pro-family beliefs of other Mormons ... who don't represent Mitt Romney's views of the womb?

Me? I think we can weigh how a subculture has influenced a POTUS candidate...I just think it's kinda "funny" that I get hit from both angles...don't eval corporate Mormonism...just individual Mitt...and then you come along and do the opposite...don't eval individual Mitt...just corporate Mormonism!

(Because...I have really YET to see ONE SOLID PRO-FAMILY PROMO of Mitt Romney based upon his political track record, which was horrid "pro-family" wise in MA from 1994-2006!)

Funny, isn't it? Here ya think there might be a few "pro-family" types on a forum like FR...and how that might actually appeal to them -- IF it was true of Romney (which it isn't)...and hence...about the ONLY arguments you get for voting for Romney is fear-mongering about Obama...

The "ABOs" are REALLY the "FMA" -- the Fear-Mongers of America!

14 posted on 06/19/2012 1:29:03 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: bobo1

I agree with you 100%.


15 posted on 06/19/2012 1:31:09 PM PDT by timeflies
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To: Vendome

(You didn’t “loan out” your password, did ya?)


16 posted on 06/19/2012 1:31:09 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Argue as much as you want. I am opposed also. I was appreciate being in a country that I can do so.

Will not do it in a country controlled by islamic fascists like obama.

If you want a private debate about the virtues of mormanism, I will probably be on your side and probably know more than you.

You have to divide the political from the religious. mormans are allowed an identity in the US. I do not believe that islam does.

Get tired of people that cannot distinguish between the two.

Blessings, Bobo

And I do believe in “Blessings” Greg
\


17 posted on 06/19/2012 1:31:40 PM PDT by bobo1
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To: timeflies

Thanks for your reply. I like talking to people that have common sense.

Blessings to you!

Bobo


18 posted on 06/19/2012 1:38:48 PM PDT by bobo1
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To: bobo1

Argue as much as you want. I am opposed also. I was appreciate being in a country that I can do so.

Will not do it in a country controlled by islamic fascists like obama.

If you want a private debate about the virtues of mormanism, I will probably be on your side and probably know more than you.

“You have to divide the political from the religious. mormans are allowed an identity in the US. I do not believe that islam does.

Get tired of people that cannot distinguish between the two.

Blessings, Bobo

And I do believe in “Blessings” Greg”

Well said Greg. Excellent post.


19 posted on 06/19/2012 1:41:06 PM PDT by Parley Baer
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To: RC2
.


Point-1 : Mormonism is "not" Christianity ....


Point-2 : Mormonism's founder ... Joseph Smith believed in the trasonous overthrow of the U.S. Constitution ... to be replaced with a Theocracy ...

otherwise known as "treason" ...


Point-3 : Mormonism's founder ... Joseph Smith called himself the "Second Mohammed" ... to DESTROY Christianity ...


Point-4 : Myth Romney ... the self-proclaimed MORMON "Celestial God-Child from Planet Kolob" ... worships the same (above) Joseph Smith ...




Ergo ... Myth Romney's spiritual ADORATION of the same (murderous and lying) Joseph Smith is ...

"fair game" ...



.
20 posted on 06/19/2012 1:44:04 PM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will DEFEAT the Obama-Romney Socialist Gay-Marriage Axis of Evil)
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To: Colofornian; Vendome

A variation of this quote maybe?

President John Taylor stated: “Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.” ( Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); “Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom .” ( Journal of Discourses , 10:127).


21 posted on 06/19/2012 1:46:05 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: SZonian

I think so. I am on my cell so I can’t reference the quote I was thinking of and in it’s exact form.

And yes, my comments of and quotes of LDS’ mystics is purposeful.

It’s meant to shock those who do not know the views of LDS and scratch their noggins into thinking about putting LDS on par with Christianity, which of course they do not.


22 posted on 06/19/2012 2:00:43 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live thnrough it anyway)
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To: SZonian

I think so. I am on my cell so I can’t reference the quote I was thinking of and in it’s exact form.

And yes, my comments of and quotes of LDS’ mystics is purposeful.

It’s meant to shock those who do not know the views of LDS and scratch their noggins into thinking about putting LDS on par with Christianity, which of course they do not.


23 posted on 06/19/2012 2:01:16 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live thnrough it anyway)
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To: SZonian

I think so. I am on my cell so I can’t reference the quote I was thinking of and in it’s exact form.

And yes, my comments of and quotes of LDS’ mystics is purposeful.

It’s meant to shock those who do not know the views of LDS and scratch their noggins into thinking about putting LDS on par with Christianity, which of course they do not.


24 posted on 06/19/2012 2:02:02 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live thnrough it anyway)
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To: SZonian

I think so. I am on my cell so I can’t reference the quote I was thinking of and in it’s exact form.

And yes, my comments of and quotes of LDS’ mystics is purposeful.

It’s meant to shock those who do not know the views of LDS and scratch their noggins into thinking about putting LDS on par with Christianity, which of course they do not.


25 posted on 06/19/2012 2:02:34 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live thnrough it anyway)
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To: Colofornian

Nope. see my post just above this one...


26 posted on 06/19/2012 2:04:09 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live thnrough it anyway)
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To: Colofornian

Nope. see my post just above this one...


27 posted on 06/19/2012 2:04:38 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live thnrough it anyway)
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To: bobo1
You have to divide the political from the religious.

Why do I have to? (Here last post you were concerned only with a religion that "imposes" upon others -- and here you're imposing upon me -- and others -- a personal religious conviction that has no Biblical basis!)

So again: Why do I have to? Because you say?

Because that's Bobo 3:16: "Thou shalt compartmentalize thine issues of faith so that they ne'er intersect with politics"???

Is that what you're saying here?

28 posted on 06/19/2012 2:05:05 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian; bobo1; VanDeKoik
(Here last post you were concerned only with a religion that "imposes" upon others -- and here you're imposing upon me -- and others -- a personal religious conviction that has no Biblical basis!)

My mistake.

Confusing posters re: the "imposing" comment (made by vandekoik)

29 posted on 06/19/2012 2:08:46 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Vendome

I hear ya, many are woefully uninformed about the teachings of Mormon prophets and how they so consistently denigrate(d) Christianity.


30 posted on 06/19/2012 2:11:19 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Colofornian

Single issue poster alert.


31 posted on 06/19/2012 2:32:19 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

(We’ve missed your single-issue alerts about my supposed single-issue postings) :)


32 posted on 06/19/2012 2:33:35 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Shucks, buddy!

That was a mean post, specially throwing John 3:16 in there.

Have you been a Christian long? Are you responding out of anger? Don’t do that, it ruins your testimony.

Posting on theological boards, for years, no one actually respects cut and tape stuff. If you have a position, put it in your own words and make an argument.

Shucks, I have seen this with the oneness pentecostals, the unitarians, calvinists, et.al. (Like the Wesleyans, however, they are civil).

You do whatever you want to. If you would rather vote for a islamist-fascist, do it!

Your reply was rather silly. Is that the best that you can do?

I do not impose anything on anybody. I am a libertarian!

Greg grew up with Wm F. Buckley Jr., Barry Goldwater and Ayn Rand.

Sometimes, friend, you do have to actually choose between the lessors of two evils, especially in politics. Should we debate between the Federalists papers and the Anti-Federalists Papers? Which of the founding fathers debated between them? Do you know?

Religion is a freedom that we are allowed in a Christian Nation. I would kindly kick the rest of them out, and moormans will be eliminated with proper information being given. I would personally kick every religion out that is intolerant of another, so Islam would not be allowed in the US, and I would volunteer to drive the bulldozer.

If you would like some info to support your viewpoint, I will send it to you.

Probably got more stuff then u do. but i have done that for a living.

I am more interested than saving the country than petty argument about religion.

Go to it. Go to carm.org and see if you can make a difference.

Blessings, Bobo


33 posted on 06/19/2012 2:39:12 PM PDT by bobo1
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To: bobo1
I do not impose anything on anybody. I am a libertarian!

Then answer the Q I asked instead of ducking it: Why do I HAVE TO (your words) divide the political from the religious?

Upon what authority do I HAVE to do that? (That was point in the 3:16 angle -- getting you to convey to me by what authority you were claiming I HAD to do that)

I would personally kick every religion out that is intolerant of another, so Islam would not be allowed in the US, and I would volunteer to drive the bulldozer.

By your own personal standard, you've just booted yourself OUT of this country! Because you're soooo intolerant you would actually bulldoze certain religions out of this country that you disagree with!

What's "funny" is you said the above in a paragraph that started out: Religion is a freedom that we are allowed in a Christian Nation.

(It's rare that we have a poster who so quickly contradicts himself on these threads)

You have refuted yourself, Bobo...you first said you want to "kick out" the intolerant religions -- yet that in and of itself shows extreme intolerance...which means you need to leave this country -- by your own standards.

Now, if you can't -- or won't -- consistently apply your own personal standards...that why are you are you trying to impose them on others...like I "HAVE TO" compartmentalize politics from religion???

34 posted on 06/19/2012 2:51:22 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Is Obama Christian?


35 posted on 06/19/2012 2:53:04 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: onedoug
.


Doug ...


Please ... let's "Stay on Point" ... as they say in court ...

This is all about ... Mormons ... "not" closet Gay-Islamics like Barrack "Hussein" Obama ...

And ... precisely to about ...

Myth Romney ("Celestial God-Child from Planet Kolob") ...



=================================



Myth Romney's "Mormon Hollywood Smile" masks a Dark Side that many have tasted the bitterness of his Wrath and Revenge ...


Two United States political Conservative (TEA Party leaning) leaders, Sarah Palin (and her Husband and Children) and Newt Gingrich (accomplished U.S. House Speaker) ...

were clearly targeted by the Mitt Romney "political hit squads" ...

and both Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich paid a heavy price for threatening Mitt Romney's long-standing visions of great political power and personal wealth.

Is it possible that a victorious (or perhaps, even worse) a defeated Willard "Mitt" Romney would, as Shakespeare wrote, "Cry Havoc, and Unleash the Dogs of War" against his post-2012 election opponents ?

Can we look to the experiences of Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich, to foretell what dire fate that Free Republic might harvest, should Mitt Romney turn his evil malice against his "Conservative Opposition" ?



Western writers have long ago uncovered the Islamic philosophy that "Lying to the Infidels" is a blessed and worthy practice , directly encouraged by Allah.

Narrated Ka'b ibn Malik: When the Prophet (salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) intended to go on an expedition, he always pretended to be going somewhere else, and he would say: War is deception.

Source: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Lying_and_Deception_in_Islam



One of the Mormon's most embarrassing secrets is the tightly-covered-up Mormon-LDS scandal surrounding the CENSORSHIP and DESTRUCTION of the "Nauvoo Expositioner" newspaper in 1844.

Perhaps this frightening episode sheds some light on "why" some Mormon figures (such as Joseph Smith) will go to any length to protect their Earthly Wealth and Power.

Is Willard "Mitt" Romney ... cut from the same "moral cloth" (deceptive and violent) as Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon Cult ?



"The Nauvoo Expositor Affair [Death of Mormon Joseph Smith]" has recently been discussed at Free Republic, for those who wish to learn more about this exceeding dark episode in Mormon history.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2893840/posts



An Executive Summary would show that a powerful and wealthy and terribly emotional insecure cult dictator (reminiscent of the murderous Jim Jones), Joseph Smith ...

violently attempted to exterminate even the mere public discussion of his policies, allegations of fraud, and abuse of power ...

even within the very "church" that he had (allegedly) miraculously founded.

Joseph Smith turned violently on fellow Mormons who had stood loyally and valiantly at Smith's side for over a decade, through the hardest of times ...



If that was how Joseph Smith treated his "best of friends" in the LDS faith ...

how then were Joseph Smith's "enemies" treated ?

Far worse, to be sure.



Which leads an inquiring mind to Willard "Myth" Romney ...

a self-proclaimed "Celestial God-Child from the Planet Kolob, located in the heavenly Constellation Cancer" ...

A man of great wealth ($ 150 million estimated personal fortune) and clear aspirations to power ... great power.

Was Mitt Romney following Joseph Smith's "politically violent" example when Mitt Romney attempted (behind-the-scenes) to politically destroy political opponents Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich ?

Many say that Romney followed Joseph Smith ... "perfectly".



So what fate then, does ANYONE who stands in opposition (at the smallest level) to Willard Romney ... share ?

What about independent Conservative Journalists such as Michelle Malikin, Shawn Hannity, Andrew Breibart (were he still alive) ?

What about independent Conservative Websites ?

Would Romney attempt their clandestine destruction ...

just as Joseph Smith violently DESTROYED "The Nauvoo Expositor" newspaper, published by Joseph Smith's most loyal and trusted friends ?




And what (indeed) happens when the (still powerful) assets of the FBI, CIA, NSA, NRO are handed over to the CONTROL of a "faithful mormon" ...

who believes that the VENGEFUL and MURDEROUS and EVIL Joseph Smith was a "saint" ... or worse still ... a self-proclaimed anti-christ "god" ...

These assets ( FBI, CIA, NSA, NRO) placed in the Greedy and Narcissistic fingers of "Myth" Romney ...

just as Joseph Smith was ...

a "Celestial God-Child from the Planet Kolob"?




.

36 posted on 06/19/2012 3:23:54 PM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will DEFEAT the Obama-Romney Socialist Gay-Marriage Axis of Evil)
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To: Patton@Bastogne

So, you’re voting for Obama then?


37 posted on 06/19/2012 3:28:12 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: onedoug
.


Hardly ...

I'm voting for the next GOP Candidates that are genuine Christians and Conservative Patriots ...

Newt and Sarah Palin ... in November 2012 ... immediately come to mind ...



Don't worry ... you'll enjoy voting for them too ...



.
38 posted on 06/19/2012 3:32:18 PM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will DEFEAT the Obama-Romney Socialist Gay-Marriage Axis of Evil)
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To: Colofornian

thank you for not giving up!


39 posted on 06/19/2012 4:31:08 PM PDT by RaceBannon (I wont vote for a gay marriage marxist gun grabber, or vote for Obama, either)
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To: RC2

So, telling the truth about Islam is an insult to Obama then?

Did you complain when we exposed Islam for being a false religion?

Since you did not, why not?


40 posted on 06/19/2012 4:33:25 PM PDT by RaceBannon (I wont vote for a gay marriage marxist gun grabber, or vote for Obama, either)
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To: bobo1

Well, let’s test your comment a little

One of the candidates supports Islam and has openly called Islam a peace oving religion and refuses to use the phrase ISLAMIC TERRORISM

One of the candidates has always been pro-abortion during his entire time in power

one of the candidates always raised taxes and spending

one of the candidates instituted a government run health care that makes it a crime to not be a part of it

One of the candidates waffles on gay rights but openly passes legislation supporting it and gay marriage too.

The same candidate is guilty of all of what I posted above.

The other candidate is Obama.

Go ahead. Call me crazy, but I am not voting for a Marxist gun grabbing, gay marriage loving candidate because he has a nice smile. And I aint voting for Obama, either.


41 posted on 06/19/2012 4:39:44 PM PDT by RaceBannon (I wont vote for a gay marriage marxist gun grabber, or vote for Obama, either)
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To: Patton@Bastogne

GREAT Analogy
!


42 posted on 06/19/2012 4:44:51 PM PDT by RaceBannon (I wont vote for a gay marriage marxist gun grabber, or vote for Obama, either)
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To: Patton@Bastogne

I won’t waste my vote going with someone not on the ballot.


43 posted on 06/19/2012 6:53:51 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Colofornian; frankenMonkey

I can’t decide whether that graphic is pro or con.


44 posted on 06/19/2012 7:02:01 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Until the 52K LDS missionaries claiming Christian faith is bogus quit, I will post LDS truth.)
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To: Colofornian

A lot of scholars are better than I will ever be at fully understanding the doctrinal differences between Mormonism and Christianity. However, I am just adamantly opposed to what Mormons call “plural marriage” (polygamy) even when it’s kept “in the closet.” And, I think it would be a very bad thing for our culture if the election of a Mormon president led to these folks coming out of the closet about their bigamous lifestyles. Marriage should mean one man, one woman, particularly in the White House.

Homosexual activists are creating enormous cultural upheaval. We certainly don’t need to add sister wives to the mix.


45 posted on 06/19/2012 7:12:26 PM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: greyfoxx39

Sometimes I just do something that strikes me as funny. Don’t really think it all the way through...


46 posted on 06/19/2012 7:49:26 PM PDT by frankenMonkey (This tagline for rent. Inquire within.)
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To: Colofornian

Let the lying lips be put to silence; which speak grievous things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous


47 posted on 06/19/2012 9:15:44 PM PDT by BlueMoose
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To: Colofornian
Do MORMONs even LIKE 'christians'??



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

48 posted on 06/19/2012 9:18:28 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: VanDeKoik
But as long as they aren’t imposing any of their beliefs on others or trying to engage in a Mormon Jihad by slicing up infidels, then I don’t really care.

I guess that you are NOT a Christian then; right?

49 posted on 06/19/2012 9:19:35 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: RC2
...I guess it justifies tearing apart the Mormon church?

Nah; but the HERESY that calls itself MORMONism is justification enough on it's own.

50 posted on 06/19/2012 9:20:45 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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