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Police chaplains told not to use 'Jesus' in official prayers
Charlotte Observer ^ | Jun 20, 2012 | Michael Gordon

Posted on 06/22/2012 9:23:32 AM PDT by Brown Deer

Joining a move toward nonsectarian prayer, the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department has asked its chaplains to stop including Jesus in their invocations at official department ceremonies.

The change, which applies to such events as police graduations, promotions and memorials, took place about a month ago, said Maj. John Diggs, who heads the department’s volunteer chaplain program. The goal: greater sensitivity to all religions practiced by the more than 2,000 police employees.

“This is not in any way an effort to demean anybody’s Christian beliefs,” Diggs said. “It’s to show respect for all the religious practices in our organization. CMPD is not anybody’s church.”

Terry Sartain, a police chaplain for seven years, said he got the news shortly before he was to give the invocation at a promotions ceremony last month. When he was told not to use Jesus in his prayer, he asked to be excused.

“Jesus is all I’ve got for a blessing,” said Sartain, pastor of Horizon Christian Fellowship in west Charlotte. “Now I’ve got to find a balance. I want to serve the officers and their families. I don’t want to jam my beliefs down anybody’s throat. But I won’t deny Jesus.”

Diggs said Sartain won’t have to. If a chaplain is uncomfortable with a nonsectarian prayer at a particular event, Diggs said the department will respect that and find a replacement.

The new police policy represents the latest friction over the separation between church and state.

In January, the U.S. Supreme Court backed a lower court banning Forsyth County from opening its meetings with sectarian prayer. In protest, several government bodies across the state have openly ignored the ruling. The debate over Christian vs. nonsectarian prayers has also bubbled up in Minnesota, California and Virginia.

The U.S. military uses nonsectarian prayer. So do both houses of Congress. The N.C. legislature, however, often opens with Christian invocations, a practice that the American Civil Liberties Union has asked lawmakers to stop.

Diggs of the CMPD said the department’s officers and civilian employees represent many different faiths, from Christians to Muslims and Jews. The department has six chaplains, all Christian.

Sartain said he continues to give Christian prayers at private events that involve police, including a recent service celebrating law enforcement at First Baptist Church.

Several ministers in town supported the police move.

MPD “is telling its Christian chaplains to observe the same practices we would desire and respect from Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu chaplains,” said the Rev. Dennis Foust of St. John’s Baptist Church of Charlotte.

“When we gather as citizens, we do not gather in the name of Jesus. Our prayers are offered to God with respect for the first clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.”

The Rev. Russ Dean of Park Road Baptist Church said he supports sensitivity in public prayer, particularly in using the name of Jesus.

“But how else do you expect Baptists to pray?” he said.

Dean said he yearns for the day when rabbis, imams or Baptist preachers can offer the opening prayer at a Panthers’ game in their own way.

“Until then,” Dean said, “we are really asking people of diverse faiths to become a part of some homogenized pseudo-faith, a public religion that is offensive to all because it attempts to offend none.” Staff Researcher Marion Paynter contributed.


TOPICS: Current Events; Prayer; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 06/22/2012 9:23:37 AM PDT by Brown Deer
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To: Brown Deer

Sounds like something satan would do.


2 posted on 06/22/2012 9:25:47 AM PDT by Hoodat (Because they do not change, Therefore they do not fear God. -Psalm 55:19-)
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To: Brown Deer

Sue them for violation of civil rights.


3 posted on 06/22/2012 9:25:52 AM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Brown Deer

Be very careful military Pastors - there are serious salvation issues here.


4 posted on 06/22/2012 9:27:02 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: Brown Deer

How about Moses? Or David? What about Mo?


5 posted on 06/22/2012 9:28:31 AM PDT by EyeGuy (Armed, judgmental, fiscally responsible heterosexual.)
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To: Brown Deer

allah and Jehovah names are also banned, eh?

these pC jerkoffs should tell muslims to pray without using the name allah... double dare them


6 posted on 06/22/2012 9:29:24 AM PDT by silverleaf (Every human spent about half an hour as a single cell)
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To: Brown Deer

I wonder how many of those who signed the Mecklenburg Resolution were muslims?


7 posted on 06/22/2012 9:30:21 AM PDT by Terry Mross (To My Liberal Kinfolk: Don't call, email or write until you've gotten your brain fixed.)
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To: Brown Deer

Can’t mention the name Jesus in a prayer?

Pretty soon chaplians won’t be able to even mention Jesus at all. And if a chaplain dares to take a Biblical stance on homosexuality?

They’ll be kicked out or court martialed.


8 posted on 06/22/2012 9:30:57 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Brown Deer

How about Christ? As in “though Christ our Lord. Amen.”


9 posted on 06/22/2012 9:33:57 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: Brown Deer

Why then when muslims pray they are told not to use the word “Allah” when referring to their god? Allah is the name of their god. Yet they can pray using that specific name.

I am so sick of this. It is time to defy these assinine orders and if they fire them, they ought to sue. Trying to be this kind of “respectful” is not allowing the free exercise of religion of the Christian, as they cannot even appeal to our Lord in His proper name. And they ought to sue the damn pants off the department and make an example of them so that all the other places thinking about restricting the exercise of a CHRISTIAN PASTOR NOT TO PRAY IN HIS GOD’S NAME, will not want ot have a lawsuit and lose millions of dollars for wrongful termination and a person’s freedom of religion.

It is time we have to take the gloves off and fight this PC bullsh1t with all our strength. These people are passive aggressively tromping over our rights of freedom of religion. If a Christian Pastor can’t use the name of His God in a prayer, a lawsuit and damages are required. And make it big to scare anyone else from attempting this.

The potential for some to be offended does not allow a business to not allow a person’s freedom of religion, especially when that person is employed for their religious duties. You can be a pastor and pray, just don’t mention the name of your God. No, that’s over the line. These people won’t change unless they lose big in court.


10 posted on 06/22/2012 9:35:02 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: silverleaf

This has one solution and it is 100% up to people of faith to enact it.

The nanosecond that a muslim invokes Allah or whatever other invokes their deity at any governmental function in an official capacity, get up, walk out and file multiple lawsuits. Claim violation of ‘church and state’ and civil rights laws, along with PTSD, pain, suffering et all.

Our refusal to use the tools in the tool box results in Jesus being banned while Allah tides high.

Your choice folks. Are you a Christian or a Dhimmi?


11 posted on 06/22/2012 9:35:07 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Norm Lenhart

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/okla-police-captain-transfered-for-refusing-to-attend-muslim-event/

sadly, “we” are beyond this

muslim = OK
Christian = might hurt somebody’s feelings


12 posted on 06/22/2012 9:39:57 AM PDT by silverleaf (Every human spent about half an hour as a single cell)
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To: silverleaf

No “we” aren’t, because enough people haven’t done anything but sit on their hands when confronted personally with it. It has gotten nowhere near the supreme court.


13 posted on 06/22/2012 9:45:03 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Brown Deer

But if they want to say “Allah akbar”, that would be just fine.


14 posted on 06/22/2012 9:45:50 AM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: Brown Deer
“Jesus is all I’ve got for a blessing,” said Sartain, pastor of Horizon Christian Fellowship in west Charlotte. “Now I’ve got to find a balance. I want to serve the officers and their families. I don’t want to jam my beliefs down anybody’s throat. But I won’t deny Jesus.”

Wow! Gives new meaning to the Great Commission. Shows this pastor really believes in the life changing properties of Christ-NOT!

15 posted on 06/22/2012 9:49:25 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Brown Deer

Modern Prayer:

Oh, to that wonderful notion of belief, we throw these
affirmations of that uneluctable thing we call faith,
allow these graduates to not cease physically during their
work, allow their families to grow/reproduce/go to another
dimension, without any undesired interference.

We affirm that these men/women/mosaic phenotypes carry out
the desires of our own laws, until those laws are changed
due to bribes, political considerations, dysfunctional
psychosocial reason, and lies.

To that great notion, we offer the highest cogitations of
our infinite minds (soon to be dust).

So be it. So be it.
So beat it, beat it, beat it.*

*To add some “relevancy” to the “prayer” the last sentence
has to be sung to the tune of Michael Jacksons song of the
same name.


16 posted on 06/22/2012 9:50:30 AM PDT by Getready (Wisdom is more valuable than gold and diamonds, and harder to find.)
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To: Brown Deer

Hummmmm. How did Peter and John respond when the leaders of the Sanhedrin ordered them not to speak in Jesus’ name?


17 posted on 06/22/2012 9:56:57 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: Brown Deer
2 Timothy 4:5

"Here I stand. I can do no other."
18 posted on 06/22/2012 10:07:01 AM PDT by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: Oratam

I would pray how I want to pray.

The State is not permitted to dictate prayers to Americans and Christians are not permitted to deny Jesus upon the orders of anti-Christs, even if a commie judge seys so.


19 posted on 06/22/2012 10:07:13 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Brown Deer

A prayer is not a ceremonial thing. Its a prayer. If you ask me to pray, you get what you get. You asked me to talk to God on your behalf, you don’t get to tell me how to do it.


20 posted on 06/22/2012 10:14:20 AM PDT by marron
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To: Brown Deer

Would that be the appropriate time for the chaplains
to tell the police department to go to Hell where they
belong?


21 posted on 06/22/2012 10:17:19 AM PDT by QT3.14 (USA: Likely only country in history with laws and policies that ensure self-destruction!)
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To: Brown Deer

Can they still say God?


22 posted on 06/22/2012 10:18:33 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: Brown Deer

As a Christian I believe praying without asking in the name of Jesus is as fruitful as tossing pennies into a wishing well.


23 posted on 06/22/2012 10:28:32 AM PDT by Starstruck
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To: Brown Deer
Quote - "But I won’t deny Jesus Christ"?

What a sorry excuse for a so called believer-saint... since he already complied with this Satanic order his actions and words has already shown him to have DENIED the Lord Christ Jesus!

I am a believer-saint and I am NOT ashamed of the Gospel of Christ and would never deny even to the point of death of my life... these men are poor excuses for believer-saints... probably not even saved, but professing types who fail the test of "Romans 1:16: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

It is this category that these chaplains fall into: "Romans 10:11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

Obviously, if they agree to not mention the name of Christ Jesus the Lord, then they admit to being ashamed, and since they are ashamed, then they display their false belief in the Lord, and the suffering that they would receive if they stand firm in the faith, but no, they readily agree to deny the name of Christ Jesus, therefore, they are guilty themselves of false belief in the only name which can save someone from their sins: that is not forcing the Gospel into someone's face - that is bolding proclaiming the Gospel of Grace which Christ Jesus died on the cross to bear our sins so that we may have eternal life and not be justly sent to the pit of Hell and the Lake of Fire for our sins if we never accept Christ Jesus as our Redeemer, Amen

24 posted on 06/23/2012 2:53:21 AM PDT by AmbassadorForChrist
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To: EyeGuy

Question for Christians:

First background— I am a Jew who was always uncomfortable being involved in prayer “...in the name of Jesus...” —and that was before becoming a super-duper-ultra-Orthodox Jew.

So what’s the difference to a Christian if he/she just says, “In G-d’s name...’ instead of Jesus? Aren’t they the same entity to you? And if so, why not make others more comfortable to “include” them or make them want to be a part—or to have more of a positive influence on them?

From a Constitutional perspective, I do hold that the Chaplains can say what they want, and those who don’t feel comfortable can self-identify and separate from that part of the activity (although I would’ve had a hard time walking out of my former squadron mate’s change of command as a young buck O-3, let alone as a junior enlisted sailor or airman.


25 posted on 06/24/2012 5:31:01 PM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

I’ve wondered about the difference also. Hopefully someone will respond and clear it up.


26 posted on 06/25/2012 6:44:57 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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