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The Mormonizing of America (BOOK EXCERPT, PT 2) [Lds: We ALONE only true church; rest 'corrupt']
Christian Post.com (Book Stop Blog section) ^ | 2012 | Stephen Mansfield

Posted on 07/01/2012 7:48:15 AM PDT by Colofornian

The presidential race of Mitt Romney and the success of the Broadway musical The Book of Mormon have generated new interest in Mormonism. Stephen Mansfield's book The Mormonizing of America provides a careful study of this growing religion. The Book Stop blog is posting excerpts from the first two chapters of this book.

What Matters to a Mormon

For a Latter-day Saint, the heart of Mormonism is the restoration of priesthood authority. It is impossible to overstate this. At the core of everything Saintly is the unshakable belief that something lost for centuries was restored through Joseph Smith. It is now present in the modern world. It is present only through the LDS Church. It is what all men will ultimately need.

Mormons believe that the pure Christianity of Jesus Christ lasted only a short while after Jesus left this life. The Christian church quickly became unrighteous and corrupt, and it stayed that way until around 1830. In other words, for centuries the Christian church was a perverse shell of what was intended. Then came Joseph Smith. He not only gave the world the Book of Mormon, but he also received, along with a man named Oliver Cowdery, the restoration of the true priesthood of God. Mormons speak of this as a restoration of “priesthood authority,” which they believe was given in two defining appearances by glorified human beings: an appearance by John the Baptist and an appearance by the apostles Peter, John, and James. In these appearances or “visitations,” the only real priesthood was restored—to Mormons.

This means that when someone asks, “Where has the great age of miracles and revelation gone?” The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says, “It is here, right now, with us.” What Mormons believe they have in this “priesthood authority” is the ability to “bring Jesus Christ into people’s lives” through “ordinances.” It is the ability to give the gifts of the Holy Spirit, to have revelations, to bless, to dedicate, and even to heal. In other words, it is the supernatural power to do the “great works” that were done before the Christian church went astray.

The Heart of the Faith

Of course, the nonreligious think this is crazy. The traditional Christian thinks it is devilish. The Jew thinks it is evidence of a stolen legacy. And nearly non-Mormon thinks it is fruit of an astonishing Mormon arrogance.

Still, it is one of the most important truths we can know about what Mormonism is. Despite Joseph Smith’s many doctrinal innovations, Mormonism is not primarily about doctrine. It is about the experience of a restored supernatural power, the all-important matter of “priesthood authority.” This was what Smith built upon. It is what early Mormons sought. It is still at the heart of the faith. It is what outsiders most misunderstand.

Though it is risky to make the comparison, the best illustration of this vital truth is found in the thinking of the Prophet Muhammad, whom Joseph Smith deeply admired. For a man living in the sixth century, Muhammad was well traveled. His occupation for many years was leading caravans that crossed the known world carrying goods from place to place. This brought the future prophet into contact with nearly all the religions of his day. He likely sat by the campfires of Jews and Christians of every type and heard them talk about what they believed. He admired them both, but their factions and theological divisions disturbed him. Jews rallied around their rabbis and Christians rallied around their favorite theologies and even slew each other over seemingly slight doctrinal matters.

Muhammad found it all too complex, too contentious. When he began claiming to have revelations and when this set him to the task of designing a new religion, he decided that simplicity was the key. It should be simple to get into the faith and simple to understand the main doctrines of the faith. The more difficult matter would be actually living it out.

The simplicity of Islam has historically been part of its power. A man enters Islam largely through a one-sentence confession, the Shahadah—“There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet”—and then understands the core of Islam with “Five Pillars” that describe his duties and “Six Articles of Faith” that describe his beliefs. This is the heart of Islam. And the genius. Islam conquered a huge portion of the known world in the first hundred years of its existence partially through the power of the sword and partially through the simplicity of its system. In this matter of simplicity, Islam was to religion what McDonald’s is to food: easily remembered, easily consumed, easily replicated.

Though Mormons won’t necessarily feel complimented by the comparison, Joseph Smith was much like Muhammad in this popularizing, simplifying work. Dr. Kathryn Flake, a Mormon who is also an esteemed professor at Vanderbilt University, has said, “Joseph Smith was the Henry Ford of revelation. He wanted every home to have one, and the revelation he had in mind was the revelation he’d had, which was seeing God.” Dr. Flake is referring to the same dynamic in the intent of Joseph Smith that we’ve seen in the doctrinal system of Muhammad. Though Mormonism appears complex to the outsider, it was actually an attempt to be something like the McDonald’s of American religion.

Smith lived at a time of great spiritual upheaval, excitement, and division—as we’ll see in the next chapter. Like Muhammad, he was put off by the constant bickering in Christianity. He claimed revelations in which he was told that all churches were corrupt, that none of them had the truth, and that none were worth joining. He wanted his “true Church” to move beyond everything that led to the infighting and destruction he had seen among Christians. This created the Mormonism we know today.

The faith of the Saints evolved by prophecy rather than by doctrine. Smith was opposed to creeds. He thought they were little more than invitations to a fight. As a result, today it is difficult to find a definitive, systematic statement of what Mormons believe produced by the Mormons themselves. By their critics? Yes. By Mormons? No. He also thought that a paid clergy is an abomination—he called them “hireling priests” who would “feed themselves, not the flock”—so most Mormon leaders are unpaid volunteers. They are also untrained theologically. The study of doctrine is surprisingly informal in the Church. As a result, there is little place for professional theologians among the Saints, unlike some denominations in which the theologians almost outnumber the members. And though there are dozens of titles a male Mormon can wear—from deacon to bishop, from high priest to president—none of them come with any academic requirements.

All of this stems from the fact that Joseph Smith was focused more on what a man does than on what he believes. He was interested in spiritual experience, not theories about the spiritual. He wanted revelations, not theologies; an open heaven, not just open books. “Deeds, not creeds,” the Saints often say, and this is the intentional legacy of Joseph Smith.

The result is that while the outside world naturally identifies Mormons by the doctrinal oddities they have accrued through the years, Mormons think of themselves in terms of priesthood authority and the sacred life they share together as a result of this grand restoration.

___________________________________________________

Excerpted from The Mormonizing of America by Stephen Mansfield, © 2012.

Published by Worthy Publishing, a division of Worthy Media, Inc., Brentwood, TN. www.worthypublishing.com. Used by permission. Tell us what you thought of this excerpt on Twitter: #Mormonizing @WorthyPub


TOPICS: Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: apostasy; lds; mittromney; mormon
[I did not post Part I...I will post Part III]

From the book excerpt published on this blog: For a Latter-day Saint, the heart of Mormonism is the restoration of priesthood authority. It is impossible to overstate this. At the core of everything Saintly is the unshakable belief that something lost for centuries was restored through Joseph Smith. It is now present in the modern world. It is present ONLY through the LDS Church.

[NOTE: See middle portion of chart below for corresponding documentation coming directly from Lds "scripture" -- D&C 1:30]

Snapshot of Joseph Smith’s Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects

Mormon Source

[Note: Most of these are Mormon ‘scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain]
“...which of all the sects was right… must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG… those professors were ALL CORRUPT…” Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price
...“which of all the sects was right…ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight…they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN…” Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price
Mormon church the only ‘Christ-sanctioned’ church on earth: “…the foundation of this [Mormon] church…the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth” [Obvious ‘scorched earth’ implication: All other churches are false and dead] Lds “scripture” Doctrines & Covenants 1:30
Direct question asked of Joseph Smith: 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?" Answer from Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119 [Not “scripture” – but still publicly spoken by the Mormon ‘living prophet’ and published by a later Mormon ‘living prophet,’ Joseph Fielding Smith – via a publisher owned by the Mormon church – Deseret News Press, 1938]
“In 1952…the first official proselyting plan was sent to missionaries throughout the world…It included seven missionary discussions that emphasized…[four topics, one of them being]THE APOSTASY and Restoration…” [This makes it 60 years that Mormon church missionaries, now numbering 55,000, have formally emphasized in its training & door to door saturation a priority in bashing the worldwide Christian church as “apostates” (100% AWOL)] Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996

Please also other chart portions above that document other excerpts from the book published by the blog: He claimed revelations in which he was told that ALL churches were corrupt, that NONE of them had the truth, and that none were worth joining...Mormons believe that the pure Christianity of Jesus Christ lasted only a short while after Jesus left this life. The Christian church quickly became unrighteous and corrupt, and it stayed that way until around 1830.

Of course, this claim -- if true -- means that Mormons call the apostle Paul a false prophet.

You see, Jesus is the Ever-Present Master Church-Builder who prevails as the Strong Guardian of a Church that has never fully apostatized -- and the apostle Paul recognized that -- even if Mormons have not:

Ephesians 3:21: to him [God] be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

The apostle Paul's prophesy here is that ALL generations of the Church would (and have) given God glory, for ever and ever!

Paul said there would NEVER be a time where the Church would fail to given God glory!

I recall a post one time that ex-Mormon ColorCountry included:

Although, tragically, the gates of hell can and do prevail over individual Christians who succumb to mortal sin and cut themselves off from life-giving union with Christ (Rom. 11:22; Gal. 5:4; 2 Peter 2:20-22; 1 John 5:16-17), they can't prevail against the Church Jesus built on the rock of Peter.(Jesus didn't command his followers to do things he himself couldn't do. "Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on a rock. The rains fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on a rock" (Matt. 7:24- 25). It was no coincidence that Jesus used the words, "on this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18; Luke 6:46-49). See also Hebrews 11:10 and 1 Peter 2:6-8.) If they could--if they did--Jesus is made to look foolish for having taught, "Which of you wishing to construct a tower does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if there is enough for its completion? Otherwise, after laying the foundation and finding himself unable to finish the work the onlookers should laugh at him and say, 'This one began to build but did not have the resources to finish'" (Luke 15:28-30).

1 posted on 07/01/2012 7:48:25 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: colorcountry

Ping re: mention in post #1


2 posted on 07/01/2012 7:49:19 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: All
From the book excerpt in the blog: The faith of the Saints evolved by prophecy rather than by doctrine. Smith was opposed to creeds.

Perhaps. But what the author needs to add here is that an "anti-creed" is still a "creed." What do I mean?

Well, living in creed relativism just doesn't work. People need principles, standards, and absolutes to live upon. We can't be stable -- or mobile -- in quicksand -- in which there is nothing "bedrock" upon which to build. So even the phrase, "There are no creeds" -- becomes in and of itself a creed.

That's one of the core problems with Mormonism. It has changed upon the whim of the next Mormon "prophet" delivering his latest spiel.

3 posted on 07/01/2012 7:50:10 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: All
From the book excerpt in the blog: Still, it is one of the most important truths we can know about what Mormonism is. Despite Joseph Smith’s many doctrinal innovations, Mormonism is not primarily about doctrine. It is about the experience of a restored supernatural power, the all-important matter of “priesthood authority.” This was what Smith built upon. It is what early Mormons sought. It is still at the heart of the faith. It is what outsiders most misunderstand.

Well, here's the problem "in a nutshell" re: this for Mormons: If they are going to tout "restored supernatural (experiential) power" -- then the source of that supposed "power" needs to be clearly id'd.

When I open up the very supposed "founding vision" upon which Mormonism is built -- what is called "The First Vision"...
...which was made into "official Mormon 'scripture'" in the 1870s...
...I find no specific Name at all given to the entities that appeared to Joseph Smith!

This is absolutely amazing!

Go ahead! Look! Joseph Smith - History. Pearl of Great Price (which is Mormon "scripture").

A Challenge to Mormons to Reread the First Vision of Joseph Smith.

Please go to vv. 16-25 of Joseph Smith History, Pearl of Great Price. Now tell me anywhere in those passages where these "Personages" are identified as either "God" or "Jesus."

Go, ahead. (There MUST be some attribution to "God" as THE source of a restored priesthood, right?)

Is His (or Jesus') Name in verse 19 of this First Vision account?
No? Well, maybe 14 yo Joey set it up in v. 18?
What? Not there either?
v. 17?
v. 16?
Well, let's look after v. 19.
v. 20?
v. 21?
v. 22?
v. 23?
v. 24?
v. 25?

Where is the SOURCE for Mormons claiming that "God" is the source?

Let's review what Joe said he felt and saw and heard:

v. 16:
Felt
Saw a pillar of light

v. 17:
“the light”
“two Personages” brightness & glory defy all description
a son of the other
v. 18:
“the Personages”

v. 19:
“the Personage”

v. 20:
“the light”

v. 24:
“a light” “heard a voice”

v. 25:
“a light” “two Personages”

And here some convert-Mormons thought they thoroughly investigated Mormonism before they joined!

Yet they NEVER knew these entities deliberately avoided identifying themselves as either God or Jesus?

Do I have to be the one who breaks the news to you LDS that being "a son" of another unnamed being/personage (v. 17) doesn't equate to being Jesus?

Do I have to be the one pointing out to you that these entities are "no names" -- identityless -- per the vision account?

Mormons, you were sold a bill of goods that are valueless. And that to me is absolutely heart-breaking.

4 posted on 07/01/2012 7:52:52 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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THX 1138


5 posted on 07/01/2012 7:53:11 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: All
Combining, then, the excerpts referenced in post #1 -- and my last post...what conclusions can we draw?

ALL: Let's say, for a moment, that a new church sprung up. Let's call it More Men New Church.

Let's say...
...they added "Revelation 23" to their Bible.
...and some unnamed entities appeared unto their leader, and he reported as part of "Revelation 23":
My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.I was answered that I must join NONE of them, for they were ALL wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that ALL their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were ALL corrupt; [NOTE: This, in fact, is literal "Mormon scripture" -- Joseph Smith 1, vv. 18-19 in the Pearl of Great Price]

Furthermore, let's say the leader of this "newbie church" claimed he was lay[ing] the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth [this is in fact "Mormon scripture" -- Doctrine & Covenants 1:30]

Furthermore, let's say the leader of this "newbie church" claimed that this "Only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth" was the "church of the Lamb of God" -- and he translated an ancient document which said:
"Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth." [this is in fact "Mormon scripture" - 1 Nephi 14:10 from the Book of Mormon]

Now let's say that this church grew to 14 million around the world -- and that about 5-6 of million of them tithed to spread the above message into over 100 different languages.

Fact: Mormon "scriptures" bash Christians 24/7 in all kinds of languages every hour of every day. Yet somehow, NONE of this tends to draw complaints from either Christians or Mormons. Why not?

I have the Lds Church published Topical Guide of the Bible (1979). When you look under "Apostasy of the Early Christian Church" -- p. 13 -- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints lists 1 Nephi 13:26 of the Book of Mormon as applicable to our history: ...thou seest the formation of a great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

So. They accuse our spiritual forefathers of being...
..."a great and abominable church"
...It's supposedly "most abominable above all other churches"
...And that we removed most of the Gospel of Jesus Christ;
...and finally, removed covenants as well.

ALL: The lesson that too many Mormons want you to know is that it's "A-OK" for these kinds of LDS accusations about Christians to be plastered around the globe by 55,000 missionaries and 24/7 Lds.org and Lds books & curricula...but, if a few FREEPERS dare to make a perceived overly negative comment about Mormons, the thin skin is bared and it's time for the Mormon toys to go home.

BTW...that same 1979 Topical Guide of the Bible published by the Mormon Church...check out p. 101 under the entry of "Devil, Church of"...When we see Book of Mormon verses listed like 1 Nephi 13:6, 32 and 14:9-10...it leaves absolutely no doubt that "true believing Mormons -- including some FREEPERS -- deem us Christians as part of the "Church of the devil."

The LDS church proclaims to be the "one true church" (see Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:9-10) and in fact, theologically, according to this passage only recognizes two churches -- the true one and the Satanic counterfeit. (Guess who LDS label as the true "Lamb of God" church and who by default thereby falls under the broad Satanic umbrella?)

6 posted on 07/01/2012 7:56:32 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: Colofornian
Its...The Mormons...


7 posted on 07/01/2012 7:59:50 AM PDT by Copenhagen Smile (Are you not entertained?!)
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To: All
From the book excerpts included in this blog: ...the best illustration of this vital truth is found in the thinking of the Prophet Muhammad, whom Joseph Smith deeply admired. For a man living in the sixth century, Muhammad was well traveled. His occupation for many years was leading caravans that crossed the known world carrying goods from place to place. This brought the future prophet into contact with nearly all the religions of his day. He likely sat by the campfires of Jews and Christians of every type and heard them talk about what they believed. He admired them both, but their factions and theological divisions disturbed him. Jews rallied around their rabbis and Christians rallied around their favorite theologies and even slew each other over seemingly slight doctrinal matters. Muhammad found it all too complex, too contentious. When he began claiming to have revelations and when this set him to the task of designing a new religion, he decided that simplicity was the key. It should be simple to get into the faith and simple to understand the main doctrines of the faith. The more difficult matter would be actually living it out. The simplicity of Islam has historically been part of its power. A man enters Islam largely through a one-sentence confession, the Shahadah—“There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet”—and then understands the core of Islam with “Five Pillars” that describe his duties and “Six Articles of Faith” that describe his beliefs. This is the heart of Islam. And the genius. Islam conquered a huge portion of the known world in the first hundred years of its existence partially through the power of the sword and partially through the simplicity of its system. In this matter of simplicity, Islam was to religion what McDonald’s is to food: easily remembered, easily consumed, easily replicated...Joseph Smith was much like Muhammad in this popularizing, simplifying work. Dr. Kathryn Flake, a Mormon who is also an esteemed professor at Vanderbilt University, has said, “Joseph Smith was the Henry Ford of revelation. He wanted every home to have one, and the revelation he had in mind was the revelation he’d had, which was seeing God.” Dr. Flake is referring to the same dynamic in the intent of Joseph Smith that we’ve seen in the doctrinal system of Muhammad. Though Mormonism appears complex to the outsider, it was actually an attempt to be something like the McDonald’s of American religion.

Indeed. And if you were Satan, you would lead poor, uneducated men to have visitations from unnamed "angels" who would give other revelations to steer men away from the Bible...and unto these new "gods."

For MORE on these similarities...see:

Islamic And Mormonism Similarities: Similarities Between Joseph Smith and Muhammad (by Brother Andrew, who indeed "loves" others in other religions!!!) ... Be sure to review posts #1 & #6 -- and others there within the thread by various posters. Post #1 includes four additional links to other similar FREEPER-posted threads.

8 posted on 07/01/2012 8:02:17 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: Copenhagen Smile

OMG! Is Romney going to make me convert?

Romey? Moslem? Hmmm


9 posted on 07/01/2012 8:03:12 AM PDT by TribalPrincess2U (54,000,000 0bama's people on welfare and food stamps?)
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To: Colofornian

*YAWN*


10 posted on 07/01/2012 8:05:39 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Future generations will curse what we've done to them.)
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To: Colofornian

The world had to wait until the 19th century to finally come to the truth?

Those who accept the teaching of Joseph Smith must, by process of elimination, deny the Founder of Christianity — Jesus Christ.


11 posted on 07/01/2012 8:10:59 AM PDT by 353FMG
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To: Copenhagen Smile
Here's the moving version:

Suspicious eyes

12 posted on 07/01/2012 8:15:54 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Guns Walked -- People Died -- Holder Lied -- Obama Golfed (thanks, Secret Agent Man))
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To: freedumb2003

LOL!


13 posted on 07/01/2012 8:32:18 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: TribalPrincess2U

This very important stuff coming out just before the election

It makes it obvious that we should elect for president a Muslim who is doing everything he can to promote Islam, which will hasten the Caliphate, rather than commit the sin of voting for a Mormon.

No wonder this country is screwed up.


14 posted on 07/01/2012 8:33:40 AM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: All
Part 3 just posted as thread: The Mormonizing of America (BOOK EXCERPT, PT 3) [IF Lds lone true church, then are rest 'cultic?']

There's the key question right there:

If Mormons are offended by the term "cult" applied to them; yet they then regard every other sect, every other religion, as essentially heretical...then what's the beef about? We're essentially "cultists" to them???

That's a question that needs to be asked REPEATEDLY of Mitt Romney!!!!!!!!

15 posted on 07/01/2012 8:43:05 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: 353FMG; All
The world had to wait until the 19th century to finally come to the truth? Those who accept the teaching of Joseph Smith must, by process of elimination, deny the Founder of Christianity — Jesus Christ.

(That's the bottom line of Mormonism...Joseph Smith usurps Jesus Christ...Jesus Christ "failed" in his mission to keep his church going...it 'apostatized' for 1700 years or so...)

16 posted on 07/01/2012 8:47:26 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: old curmudgeon; All
It makes it obvious that we should elect for president a Muslim who is doing everything he can to promote Islam, which will hasten the Caliphate... [said with sarcasm - to note the tone]

Wait a minute, Old Curmudgeon. We've had literally DOZENS of FREEPERS (perhaps even yourself) who have claimed that Romney's religion should be off-limits for discussion...that it's pure "bigotry" to harp on its negative elements...

Why, your comment above seems to place Islam in a negative light...any second now...the self-appointed "bigot patrol" will enter the thread stage right...and perhaps accuse you of religious "bigotry" vs. Islam...

(But then...reality dawns upon me once again...Like that level of religious consistency would EVER happen 'round here!)

Never mind. As you were. Resume posting as is.

17 posted on 07/01/2012 8:53:46 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: Colofornian

Joseph Smith and Mohammed are “soul brothers”?


18 posted on 07/01/2012 8:58:12 AM PDT by 353FMG
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To: old curmudgeon; All

I’d rather commit a sin then vote for O...


19 posted on 07/01/2012 9:05:58 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Radical Islam is a bigger threat than the LDS...)
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To: Colofornian; All
Meanwhile in Dearborn MI: Christians stoned by American Muslims in Dearborn as police watch. Yes those mormons are truly a problem..
20 posted on 07/01/2012 9:09:18 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Radical Islam is a bigger threat than the LDS...)
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To: Colofornian

The Catholic Church claims it is the only true church. The Jehovah’s Witnesses claim they are the only true religion...

Many churches make this claim.

In order to believe in a religion you have to believe it’s the right one.

The constitution allows for freedom of religion. I don’t see Romney hiring only Mormons.

Let freedom ring.


21 posted on 07/01/2012 9:54:58 AM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: Colofornian

For some strange reason every time I see the commercial where a perfect man and woman show up at a house and offer a pie or puppy, and a bundle, I get visions of Mormons.


22 posted on 07/01/2012 11:06:58 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I LIKE ART! Click my name. See my web page.)
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To: freedumb2003
Moving Version #2



23 posted on 07/01/2012 2:11:58 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: freedumb2003
MV#3



24 posted on 07/01/2012 2:15:16 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Beowulf9
The constitution allows for freedom of religion. I don’t see Romney hiring only Mormons. Let freedom ring.

The constitution indeed allows for voters to take other-worldly worldviews of candidates into character and discernment considerations.

Which is what I do.

The constitution doesn't say, "Compartmentalize thy faith into a corner."

As for your "religious freedom" as it intersects with Romney's potential hiring decisions, I noticed in late 2007 when Romney ran the first time that he stated he wouldn't hire Muslims: Remember when Romney said he wouldn’t put a Muslim in the cabinet? He made his Mormonism relevant

So is your "freedom of religion" for all except Muslims?

(I expect an answer)

If not, where were you in critiquing Romney for that comment -- and the link above refreshing this issue last November?

Or is this just more of the religious hypocrisy I see among some FREEPERs, who find it awfully convenient to tout "freedom of religion" when it's Romney's religion under scrutiny; but then when it comes to the literal THOUSANDS of FREEPER comments about Obama's supposed Muslim connections...or about his ties to Rev. Jeremiah Wright...suddenly religious hypocrites like yourself never seem to go to bat for Obama with your convenient "standard" of "freedom of religion."

If I'm wrong on this, please point me to the posts where you've defended Obama's "freedom of religion." (Otherwise, I'll interpret your silence as dual-faced religious hypocrisy in action)

The Catholic Church claims it is the only true church. The Jehovah’s Witnesses claim they are the only true religion...Many churches make this claim.

Well, it's certainly true of cults to make this claim (JWs; Lds). My understanding of Roman Catholic teachings that it does recognize the Eucharistic and Apostolic Succession of Eastern Orthodox churches. Therefore, your conclusion that it thinks it's the "only game in town" doesn't appear to be an accurate conclusion.

25 posted on 07/01/2012 2:50:10 PM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: Colofornian; Beowulf9
Colo: "My understanding of Roman Catholic teachings that it does recognize the Eucharistic and Apostolic Succession of Eastern Orthodox churches. Therefore, your conclusion that it thinks it's the "only game in town" doesn't appear to be an accurate conclusion."

You are correct, Colofornian. Also, he Catholic Church recognizes the validity of Baptism in other Christian denominations. And since we understand Baptism as the Sacrament of initiation into the Church, we acknowledge other baptized Christians as members of the Church, in almost any denomination.

Except the Mormons.

Why not the Mormons? Because, although they use the same words and form of Baptism, they are actually referring to a different 'god.' They do not believe there is just One God who is the 'maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.' Mormons believe in many gods, maybe millions of them throughout the Universe.

Therefore the Catholic Church accepts other Christrians as 'Christians," we can't theologically say the same about Mormons, since they actually don't believe in the same God. And this is not an insult. It's just the fact, and they (well-informed Mormons) would be the first to agree.

26 posted on 07/01/2012 4:28:15 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: Colofornian

thank you for posting this!

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


27 posted on 07/01/2012 5:10:22 PM PDT by RaceBannon (I wont vote for a gay marriage marxist gun grabber, or vote for Obama, either)
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To: Colofornian

http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=24660

Catholic Church alone is one, true church, says Vatican congregation

7/10/2007
Catholic Online (www.catholic.org)

VATICAN CITY (Catholic Online) – The Catholic Church is the one, holy, apostolic church of Christ, while other Christian Orthodox and Protestant denominations that “suffer from defects” share elements of “sanctification and of truth,” said the Vatican’s doctrinal congregation.

Released July 10 under the title “Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church,” the 1,200-word document was signed by U.S. Cardinal William J. Levada, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and congregation secretary Archbishop Angelo Amato, and approved by Pope Benedict XVI before publication.

In the document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on the intent of ecumenical efforts undertaken after the Second Vatican Council more than 40 years ago, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been “erroneous … which in turn give rise to confusion and doubt.”

The document, published in Latin, English, French, Italian German, Polish, Portuguese and Spanish, was issued three days after the papal release of a document that revisited another key aspect of Vatican II by relaxing restrictions on the celebration of the Latin-language Tridentine Mass.

Noting that churches and ecclesial communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church “suffer from defects,” the doctrinal congregation acknowledged that “elements of sanctification and truth” may be present in them.

“It follows that these separated churches and communities … are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation,” the congregation said. “In fact, the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church.”

The doctrinal congregation made clear that Vatican II did not modify but rather clarified and made explicit what may have been uncertain or unclear in the field of ecumenical relations. “The Second Vatican Council neither changed nor intended to change” Catholic doctrine on the church, it said, “rather it developed, deepened and more fully explained it.”

It said that the Second Vatican Council was clear in stating that Christ’s church “subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the bishops in communion with him.”

That phrase affirms that the “historical continuity and the permanence of all the elements instituted by Christ” are only present in the Catholic Church, the congregation said.

It noted that the Orthodox faith communities are called “churches,” though separate from the Catholic Church, as they have retained apostolic succession, the ordained priesthood and the Eucharist. Because of those close bonds, the congregation said, they merit the title of churches and are seen as “sister churches” of specific Catholic churches.

Yet, Christian communities “born out of the Reformation” do not share that union as they “do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of orders,” the Vatican congregation said.

“These ecclesial communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called churches in the proper sense,” it said.

In a “commentary” issued with the document, the congregation said that “ecumenical dialogue remains one of the priorities of the Catholic Church.”

Yet, it stressed that such dialogue must be founded on “not just mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith.”

The congregation noted that, while “Catholic ecumenism might seem, at first sight, somewhat paradoxical,” the Second Vatican Council has sought to “try to harmonize two doctrinal affirmations” that, despite existent Christian divisions, “the church of Christ continues to exist fully only in the Catholic Church” and that “elements of sanctification and truth do exist … in ecclesial communities that are not fully in communion with the Catholic Church.”

“The fullness of the Catholic Church, therefore, already exists, but still has to grow in the brethren who are not yet in full communion with it and also in its own members who are sinners.”

- - -

Pope Benedict XVI’s Prayer Intentions for June 2012
General Intention:Christ, Present in the Eucharist.
That believers may recognize in the Eucharist the living presence of the Risen One who accompanies them in daily life.
Missionary Intention:European Christians.
That Christians in Europe may rediscover their true identity and participate with greater enthusiasm in the proclamation of the Gospel.


28 posted on 07/01/2012 6:16:50 PM PDT by Beowulf9
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