Skip to comments.The Mormonizing of America (BOOK EXCERPT, PT 3) [IF Lds lone true church, then are rest 'cultic?']
Posted on 07/01/2012 8:34:57 AM PDT by Colofornian
The presidential race of Mitt Romney and the success of the Broadway musical The Book of Mormon have generated new interest in Mormonism. Stephen Mansfield's book The Mormonizing of America provides a careful study of this growing religion. The Book Stop blog is posting excerpts from the first two chapters of this book.
The Mormons and the Media
Nowhere in American society does this create an occasion of people talking past each other as when it comes to the media pursuing a prominent Mormon.
Reporters naturally want to find something controversial about this visible person, so they ask about holy underwear. But the Mormon wont answer this question directly. Hes offended by the phrase holy underwearit is properly called a Temple garmentand he wont talk about Temple rituals in any case because they are far too sacred. Besides, betraying Temple rituals is forbidden.
Then the media switches to polygamy. This too gets side-stepped because the Church forbade polygamy long before this prominent Mormon was born and only a small percentage of Saints have ever been in plural marriages to begin with. Theres nothing to write about here.
Reporters then raise the treatment of blacks. This may get some play because the Latter-day Saints did not get a revelation about blacks being priests and permitted in the Temple until 1978. Even the Supreme Court moved toward equality faster than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! So the media can stir these waters a bit, but the change came forty-five years ago and everybody has admitted the Church was wrong and even African American Mormons will criticize the media if it does not report fairly where the Church is today.
Then there is abortion and homosexuality, but more than half the country is with the Mormons on this so there is nothing new to spin. There is some fun to be had with the Mormon anti-birth-control position, but this is old and not all Mormons accept it and it will only bring Mormon women to the cameras in a rage. Better to leave this alone too.
It also doesnt work to bring up specific matters of doctrine. Press a political candidate on whether Jesus will touch down in Jackson County, Missouri, when he returns and the man either answers incorrectly or says he doesnt know. Ask if he intends to be a god one day and he says his faith doesnt make this clear. Ask if he thinks he will rule over planets and he laughs and says that some members of his faith believe this.
The man cannot be pinned down, though, and this is because Mormon doctrine is dangerous territory. It is always a bitsquishy. There is no creed. There are few if any LDS theologians. The clergy isnt theologically trained. The people are usually only taught what is faith promoting so there are huge gaps in what they know. And in Mormonism there is nothing like the Roman Catholic Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faithno official voice, no department clarifying theology and whipping dissidents back into line. So the candidate moves deftly around the icebergs that reporters try to put in his way.
Then there are always conspiracy theories to pose about how much Salt Lake City controls a leading politician or how much money the church spends trying to turn elections their way. But no one knows for sure and there is such a mind meld between the Church and its prominent members that there is hardly need for the Church to even try to exert control. These Mormons all think so alike that nothing ever has to be said.
And this is where it usually stops. Because the media only knows Mormonism by its odd extremities, it exhausts its list of interesting topics quickly. The reporting becomes vapid. Religion moves from center stage. The fact that a CEO or a politician or a cabinet member or some other influential member of society might be a Mormon is no longer deemed important.
Because the media is focused on externals. Because the sordid burns out quickly. Because no one has thought to ask a Mormon what it really means to be a Mormon.
Yet when the Saints are approached in the light by which they see themselvesas the only earthly heirs of the ancient priesthood of Aaron and Melchizedekthen a new list of questions begins to emerge.
Sir, your Church is offended when it is called a cult. But if your Church sees itself as the only true Church, possessors of the only true priesthood on earth, then dont Mormons see every other religion in the world as some kind of cult?
Sir, if you are a Melchizedek Priest, have you ever prayed for anyone to be healed? Have they been? Have you ever seen angels? Can you confer the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Can you confer them on me?
Sir, are there prophets who speak to you regularly? Do you prophesy to others? What will you do if someone you revere as a prophet gives you a revelation about what you should do in a public office? How can you refuse it? How can you be sure it is or isnt the true word of God?
Sir, if your Church has been given the keys to the only true Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods on earth, then what does this say about the Jews? Are they deceived about who they are? And does becoming a Mormon literally change a persons blood so they become the seed of Abraham, as Joseph Smith taught? And who exactly will be in control of Jerusalem when Jesus Christ returns?
These, then, are questions nearer the meaning of Mormonism that the Saints themselves hold dear and these get us closer to understanding how an LDS politician or CEO or educator understands both his public life as well as his life in this world.
What the Mormon view of Mormonism also tells us is how we have to approach the faith. There is no Mormon systematic theology or final theological voice. The text of Mormonism is Mormon history. In fact, there is a direct connection between each major phase of the Mormon past and what most every Mormon believes and practices today. But the story has to be told and its meaning understood.
This has not been easy for most Americans. Not only is religion of any kind seldom taught in our schools, but Mormon history is such an odd creature that it requires a certain openness, a willingness to take seriouslyeven for a moment a story our Mormon friends believe was begun by angels, powered by prophecy, sustained by miracles, and made heroic by men destined to be divine. This history, though, is the main text of the faith that has now reached critical mass in the United States and it is well worth considering for this reason alone.
Excerpted from The Mormonizing of America by Stephen Mansfield, © 2012.
Published by Worthy Publishing, a division of Worthy Media, Inc., Brentwood, TN. www.worthypublishing.com. Used by permission. Tell us what you thought of this excerpt on Twitter: #Mormonizing @WorthyPub
From the book excerpt included in the Blog:
Because the media is focused on externals. Because the sordid burns out quickly. Because no one has thought to ask a Mormon what it really means to be a Mormon. Yet when the Saints are approached in the light by which they see themselvesas the ONLY earthly heirs of the ancient priesthood of Aaron and Melchizedekthen a new list of questions begins to emerge. Sir, your Church is offended when it is called a cult. But if your Church sees itself as the only true Church, possessors of the only true priesthood on earth, then dont Mormons see every other religion in the world as some kind of cult?
This is the exact question supporters of Romney, the MSM, and even Christian leaders who have thrown their support behind Romney -- or are about to -- utterly have failed to ask!
Where has discernment gone?
The MSM -- and Christian leaders -- need to start asking Mitt Romney if he believes standard Mormon absolutes below...because, frankly, they are NOT very inspiring to Christian voters!!!!
Why would Christians want to elevate that within our land???
Snapshot of Joseph Smiths Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects
Mormon Source[Note: Most of these are Mormon scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain]
|...which of all the sects was right must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG those professors were ALL CORRUPT ||Joseph Smith History vv. 18-19. Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price|
|...which of all the sects was right ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN ||Joseph Smith History vv. 18-19. Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price|
|Mormon church the only Christ-sanctioned church on earth: the foundation of this [Mormon] church the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth [Obvious scorched earth implication: All other churches are false and dead]||Lds scripture Doctrines & Covenants 1:30|
|Direct question asked of Joseph Smith: 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?" Answer from Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness."||Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119 [Not scripture but still publicly spoken by the Mormon living prophet and published by a later Mormon living prophet, Joseph Fielding Smith via a publisher owned by the Mormon church Deseret News Press, 1938]|
|In 1952 the first official proselyting plan was sent to missionaries throughout the world It included seven missionary discussions that emphasized [four topics, one of them being] THE APOSTASY and Restoration [This makes it 60 years that Mormon church missionaries, now numbering 55,000, have formally emphasized in its training & door to door saturation a priority in bashing the worldwide Christian church as apostates (100% AWOL)]||Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996|
Indeed...and these quotes below by Lds leaders -- many either published/republished by official Mormon church sources in recent years ... shows the track record, inclination, and desire for Lds leaders to politically control things:
|Lds Leader||Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title)||Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words)|
|John Taylor||Lds 'Prophet' #3||The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto [so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862)|
|John Taylor||Lds 'Prophet' #3||The LDS Church -- in 2001 -- thought it well to pull this quote from John Taylor to emphasize it: "The Lord...is desirous to show us how to save ourselves, how to bless ourselves temporally and spiritually, intellectually, morally, physically, POLITICALLY..." (Lds Church owned Deseret News, Nov. 19, 1865, p. 2, as quoted in Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor (2001, p. 178). Also from p. 178: "The idea of strictly religious feelings with us, and nothing else, is out of the question...Our religion is more comprehensive than that of the world...it embraces all the interests of humanity in every conceivable phrase..." (Original source: The Gospel Kingdom, 1943, p. 168)|
|Orson Hyde||President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875)||What the world calls Mormonism will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53)|
|Heber J. Grant||Lds 'Prophet' #7||"Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984)|
|Harold B. Lee||Lds 'Prophet' #11||...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989)|
|Spencer Kimball||Lds 'Prophet' #12||"President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983)|
|What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father?||Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets')||"Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984)|
|Ezra Taft Benson||Lds 'Prophet' #13||Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet|
|Benson (cont'd)||Fundamental #5||5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney?)|
|Benson (cont'd)||Fundamental #9||9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt?)|
|Benson (cont'd)||Fundamental #10||10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt?)|
|B.H. Roberts||LDS Historian and Seventy. Note: Roberts was an elected Democratic Congressman from Utah in 1898 -- but was NEVER seated by Congress because of grass roots uproar vs. Roberts, who took a THIRD simultaneous wife in the early 1890s. Grass roots America collected 7 MILLION signatures on 28 banners and presented them to Congress...in pre-mass media 1800s!||[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a POLITICAL INSTITUTION THAT SHALL HOLD SWAY OVER ALL THE EARTH; TO WHICH ALL OTHER GOVERNMENTS WILL BE SUBORDINATE AND BY WHICH THEY WILL BE DOMINATED. The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180|
|Mitt Romney as POTUS???||Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do?||The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."]|
More good questions the media needs to be asking Romney.
So, what’s your choice? Romney or barry?
Care to tell us how Romney will implement this grand scheme?
I live in the heart of LDS country...Northern Utah, and I'm not LDS. And while i disagree with their theology, this great LDS conspiracy notion is just plain wacky.
As i mentioned in my previous post, I'm sure many folks opposed to the Catholic Church had similar notions when JFK was elected.
Isn't it amazing that these nut jobs have more contempt for Romney, even after witnessing the destruction wrought on this nation by the Kenyan? Just freaking sad!
“The Mormonizing of America”
How ridiculously stupid. We have a friggin communist in the White House today, combined with a dumber than ever/brainwashed/manipulated voting population. Our concern should be the Communizing of America.
“The Mormonizing of America”
How ridiculously stupid. We have a friggin communist in the White House today, combined with a dumber than ever/brainwashed/manipulated voting population. Our concern should be the MORONization of America.
Someone ping the list...
Funny, that is exactly what I was thinking when I posted my response.
Their hatred for all that is Mormon exceeds the saving of our country, as we knew it.
I can only suppose, from their hatred, they prefer a mooslum to a Mormon.
That's just it. Since when does the puppet have to serve as the 'Mastermind?'
It'll all be up to a Mormon "prophet." Probably in his 80s. Even 90s. Could be heading a wee bit toward senility. (Who knows?)
Romney's ALREADY taken the vow (see last line of chart in earlier post).
Romney the "consecrator" will devote ALL to Zion...whatever Zion says...open-ended...
Now...go ahead...show me either where ANY Catholic politician has given a similar vow that Romney has...
Or where Popes in the past 150 years have made statements similar to what is in the chart.
You can't. Because you can't argue from a void.
Therefore it's no parallel...
(To apply your same logic, I guess this would mean you "hate" Muslims, eh?)
I would also like to know how Romney "imposed" his religion in MA.
Am I happy with our current choice? HELL NO. But a gun has been to put to our collective heads.......Romney or barry.
I know many Mormons and they are friendly,law abiding, good business people and not on welfare.
Funny, these people who bring up great concerns about Romney's religion and its “sinister” implications, never seem to be concerned that Obama has dissed our greatest ally in the Middle East, Israel...GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE, while at the same time embraced our (and Israels) enemies! I've only heard Romney speak of the Jewish people and the Nation of Israel with great respect and reverence. Buy according to these anti-Romney types, he's the bigger enemy to America!
These people are becoming seriously unhinged.
The Real Story Behind Rev. Wright's Controversial Black Liberation Theology Doctrine
Monday , May 5, 2008
[special Friday night edition--original airdate May 2, 2008]
(some key excerpts)
["(Jose) Diaz-Balart is the son of Rafael Diaz-Balart y Guitierrez (a former Cuban politician). He has three bothers, Rafael Diaz-Balart (a banker), Mario Diaz-Balart (a US Congressman) and Lincoln Diaz-Balart (also a US Congressman). His aunt, Mirta Diaz-Balart, was Fidel Castro's first wife."
JOSE DIAZ-BALART, TELEMUNDO NETWORK: "Liberation theology in Nicaragua in the mid-1980's was a pro-Sandinista, pro-Marxist, anti-U.S., anti-Catholic Church movement. That's it. No ifs, ands, or buts. His church apparently supported, in the mid-'80s in Nicaragua, groups that supported the Sandinista dictatorships and that were opposed to the Contras whose reason for being was calling for elections. That's all I know. I was there.
I saw the churches in Nicaragua that he spoke of, and the churches were churches that talked about the need for violent revolution and I remember clearly one of the major churches in Managua where the Jesus Christ on the altar was not Jesus Christ, he was a Sandinista soldier, and the priests talked about the corruption of the West, talked about the need for revolution everywhere, and talked about 'the evil empire' which was the United States of America."
REV. BOB SCHENCK, NATIONAL CLERGY COUNCIL: "it's based in Marxism. At the core of his [Wright's] theology is really an anti-Christian understanding of God, and as part of a long history of individuals who actually advocate using violence in overthrowing those they perceive to be oppressing them, even acts of murder have been defended by followers of liberation theology. That's very, very dangerous."
SCHENCK: "I was actually the only person escorted to Dr. Wright. He asked to see me, and I simply welcomed him to Washington, and then I said Dr. Wright, I want to bring you a warning: your embrace of Marxist liberation theology. It is contrary to the Gospel, and you need, sir, to abandon it. And at that he dropped the handshake and made it clear that he was not in the mood to dialogue on that point."
Source: The Real Story Behind Rev. Wright's Controversial Black Liberation Theology Doctrine:
Obama's Church: Gospel of Hate
Kathy Shaidle, FrontPageMag.com
Monday, April 07, 2008
In March of 2007, FOX News host Sean Hannity had engaged Obamas pastor in a heated interview about his Churchs teachings. For many viewers, the ensuing shouting match was their first exposure to "Black Liberation Theology"...
Like the pro-communist Liberation Theology that swept Central America in the 1980s and was repeatedly condemned by Pope John Paul II, Black Liberation Theology combines warmed-over 1960s vintage Marxism with carefully distorted biblical passages. However, in contrast to traditional Marxism, it emphasizes race rather than class. The Christian notion of "salvation" in the afterlife is superseded by "liberation" on earth, courtesy of the establishment of a socialist utopia.
Catholics for Marx [Liberation Theology]
By Fr. Robert Sirico
FrontPageMagazine.com | Thursday, June 03, 2004
In the days when the Superpowers were locked in a Cold War, Latin America seethed with revolution, and millions lived behind an iron curtain, a group of theologians concocted a novel idea within the history of Christianity. They proposed to combine the teachings of Jesus with the teachings of Marx as a way of justifying violent revolution to overthrow the economics of capitalism.
The Gospels were re-rendered not as doctrine impacting on the human soul but rather as windows into the historical dialectic of class struggle. These "liberation theologians" saw every biblical criticism of the rich as a mandate to expropriate the expropriating owners of capital, and every expression of compassion for the poor as a call for an uprising by the proletarian class of peasants and workers.
Malik Zulu Shabazz, chairman of the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense (NBPP):
"We believe in a Black first philosophy and a Black Liberation Theology."
Although it [The New Black Panther Party] says it sees capitalism as the fundamental problem with the world and revolution as the solution, the new party does not draw its influences from Marxism or Maoism as the original party did. Instead, in a carefully-worded, roundabout form of ethnic nationalism, they say that Marx based his ideology and teachings on indigenous African cultures, and that the NBPP therefore need not look to Marxism or Maoism as a basis for their program, but can look to ideologies that stem directly from those African origins.
Voting for Virgil Goode of the Constitution Party.
For those who claim a pragmatic utilitarian political relativist worldview -- and claim that since Goode can't win, people need to vote for either Romney or Obama, then they need to be politically consistent.
We live in a republic where the POTUS vote -- unlike other votes -- is decided state-by-state (electoral college).
That means that just as Goode "can't win" in the states he is on the ballot for, well, guess what? Romney "can't win" in certain states as well!!!!
Romney, for example, can't win...
...the Left Coast (WA, OR, CA)
...Nevada (even if he puts up a better fight than past R candidates due to 8% of Mormons there)...
...Parts of New England...
So...you and others need to then start being consistent if you are telling Goode (& other third-party voters) NOT to vote for them...
...Neither then should FREEPERs or ANY true conservatives vote for Romney in those above states...'cause Obama will win, anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!
And...if we're ONLY talking about FREEPERs...if you subtract ALL FREEPERs from the South (except FL)...and many Midwestern and most Western states...and if they voted third party...guess what? Romney would still win those states!
Therefore, principled TRUE conservative voters living in those states have NO basis for voting for Romney! (Romney'll win, anyway!!!)
“I know many Mormons and they are friendly,law abiding, good business people and not on welfare.”
Ditto that! Couldn’t agree more!
The almost 100% Mormon towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, AZ, are indeed welfare-laden.
Mormon fraud among Lds over the last several years is now in the $billions (usually one Mormon defrauding another). White collar crime has been high in Salt Lake City area going back to the 1980s.
As for the other "nice" traits, hey, if you're auditioning for godhood, you better be on your best behavior!
(Oh, and you don't go around with any other group that has a "I'm-divine-complex" and tout that inward prideful arrogance as a trait we all need to embrace, do you?)
Yes, you are correct. Sharia law IS NOT compatible with our Constitution. I don't see Mormons cutting off the heads of "infidels", nor do I see them claiming America and Israel being the "Great Satan, Small Satan" that needs to be destroyed.
Nor did I see Mormons celebrating in the streets on 9/11.
I could be wrong about my last statement. If you have any proof of that, please provide it.
Well this is such BS, Romney is as a mormon 10 million times better then the Marxist Muslim, at least mormons don’t want to kill you if you don’t convert. I am sick of this card being played against Milt! I was not happy it was him but he is all we have. And against Barry I will choose Milt anytime. Milt Loves America, Obama wants to destroy America. Not disagreeing with your post just adding to it.
The musical “The Book of Mormon” isn’t going to win any converts.
Becoming unhinged? They STARTED that way! And if you try to converse with them, the first thing they do is call you a Mormon. I have been called a Mormon sooooo many times it is ridiculous!
You know. As of 2011, Lds members fleeced over $1.4 billion from fellow Mormons the past few years alone! Guess what? They initially didn't regret "doing business" with them, either!!!
Source: Mormons Now Losing Billions to Affinity Fraud
Affinity fraud occurs in all segments of society.
But show me ANY segment of society -- that is 1.7% of it -- where there's been $BILLIONS of fraud just within a few years?
It was so bad the Lds church finally had to put out a press release about it earlier this year!!!
Why should I care???
That is just your simple minded opinion, which is scrambled by your hatred of all that is Mormon.
barrys peeps drank the cherry kool-aid.....seems you drank another flavor.
Unfortunately, kool-aid is kool-aid, no matter which flavor.
“The almost 100% Mormon towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, AZ, are indeed welfare-laden.”
Wow, graspoing at straws. Here’s a little factoid for you:
Hildale Utah is a very rural area (think Utah National Parks). In 2010, Hildale’s population was 2,726. Not really a good example to use. ;-)
Oh please. This poster does nothing but post negative things about Mormons.
To heck with our country and Constitution....as long as a Mormon isn’t elected over a mooslim, all be be well.
Yep! A couple of months ago, those of us who decided we would vote for Mitt over the Marxist were called RINO’s and GOP-e’s. During this very hostile period, several longtime FReepers left the site feeling they were no longer welcome because of their decision to deal with reality.
I guess, Artcore, you're not a very good "student" of your own state, eh?
As FR poster Scoutmaster has previously mentioned:
* Utah leads the nation in # of porn subscriptions per capita, porn consumption among the general internet user population and dial-up users. Source 1, and Red Light States: Who Buys Online Adult Entertainment?, Benjamin Edelman (Journal of Economic PerspectivesVolume 23, Number 1Winter 2009Pages 209220). Utah also lead the nation in porn busts. FBI in Utah Lead Nation in Porn Busts.
Scoutmaster posted this: New Romney Ad Embraces Mormonism
Also, in a previous thread, you can see all the original sources for what is below: Sociology of Utah
I provided links there to first two headlines below...plus several others [wherever you see "source headline"]:
* Two Studies Find Depression Widespread in Utah
* Utah leads the nation in rates of depression
* And referenced where Utah has the most anti-depressant use, especially in women: Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use. Some point to the pressures of Mormonism, especially for women, to explain the surprising findings. [Source urls: http://www.usu.edu/psycho101/lectures/chp2methods/study.html http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/03/eveningnews/main510918.shtml ]
Other related depression and suicide Utah anecdotes:
* Utah, which a 2007 report said had the country's highest rate of nonmedical painkiller abuse. Source headline: Utah has new prescription for painkiller problem [Original link...click on first link above for linkage to actual article]
* Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24: As of 5 years ago: Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24...Utah also has the 11th highest suicide rate 14.3 deaths per 100,000 people in the nation over all age groups, according to the most recent data from the American Association of Suicidology. Source headline: Deadly taboo: Youth suicide an epidemic that many in Utah prefer to ignore [Original link -- click on first link above for linkage to actual article]
* Utah has the country's highest suicide rate for males between the ages of 14 and 25. That grim statistic is given a name and a troubled family in Carol Lynn Pearson's impassioned Facing East, now at the International City Theatre in Long Beach. Source url: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2285528/posts
* For more than 10 years, 15- to 34-year-old males in Utah have had suicide rates markedly higher than those seen nationally. In fact, in the early to mid-1990s, suicide was the number one cause of death among 25- to 44-year-old men in the state and the second-leading cause of death among men aged 15 to 24. Source url: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/lds_LowSuicideRate.html
Now, this article actually says being active Lds "helps" in comparing rates. But this and another study I saw actually says when you compare the suicide rates for active Lds, inactive or less-active Lds, and non-Lds, the middle category is by far the highest:
In addition, per this article the risk of suicide among males aged 15 to 19 was three times higher among the less active church members than among their active peers, but the rate among the active youth was comparable to the national suicide rate.
So...this article not only says suicide risk is 3x higher among less active Lds than active Lds (among 15-19 yo), but that the suicide rate for active Lds 15-19 yo is no different than the national suicide rate!!!
My point: Mormonism is no barrier to the suicide rate for teens, and in fact, jeopardizes more teens (the less active ones)!
What else about Utah is distinctive sociologically?
Utah's sexual violence: broader Utah, of which 60% are Lds.
Sexual misconduct pervasive problem among teachers (KSL.com, Oct. 25, 2009)
Quote from this KSL article: SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- State education officials say sexual misconduct by teachers is the No. 1 reason Utah educators are forced to surrender their licenses. Records shows Utah has nearly 20,000 licensed educators. Since 1992, the State Board of Education has suspended or revoked 313 teacher licenses -- 208 of them for sexual misconduct. That number excludes 10 cases still being investigated by the Utah Professional Practices Advisory Commission. The behaviors range from inappropriate touching and downloading pornography on a school computer to full-blown molestation...In 2005, a survey by The Associated Press ranked Utah 16th in the nation for teacher sex offenses based on disciplinary records from 2001 to 2005 in 50 states and the District of Columbia. At that time, 52.7 percent of Utah teachers who lost their licenses surrendered them for sexual misconduct -- twice the national rate, the AP found.
Sexual misconduct persistent in Utah schools (Oct. 25, 2009)
Utah's sexual assault rate outpaces U.S. average (April 6, 2010)
Utah Sexual assault realities:
* A few years ago, KSL reported that there's a reported rape in Utah less than 9.5 hours apart (see http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=14136899)-- that's up just from 2008 when it was just under a rape per 10 hours...http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/CIU%202008%20book%200810.pdf, p. 6
* Per the Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification (see also Utah Department of Health), the 2008 Utah rape rate was 63.7 per 100,000 females vs. U.S. average of 57.4. For entire crime report, see: http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/CIU%202008%20book%200810.pdf
* BTW, 2008 wasn't some new surge: Since 1991, Utahs rape rate has consistently inched higher than the national rate. By 2002, Utah ranked 14th in the nation for rapes. [Source url: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600125585,00.html] -- and inched to 13th by 2004...http://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?page_id=290)
* Why has Utah as of the years since 2000, consistently ranked between 13 & 18 re: rape rate?
* Why as of just over 5 years ago, was Utah #8 in the nation for its sex offender rate per Nation Master.com?
Of course, we could take the approach that...
...Surely 60% of the population that is "nice and friendly" would actually ensure that 40% of the population would not place them in the upper rankings for rape & sex abuse, right?...
...And therefore NONE of this has anything to do with any specific Utah environmental factors, right?...
...Hence, let's just sweep this all under the image rug, shall we?...
...After all, it doesn't make for good religious PR or marketing, does it?...
The U.S. Department of Justice reported (Fall 2001) that national domestic violence rates decreased 41 percent since 1993. But Utah officials reported a 31 percent increase in state domestic violence between 1997 and 2000. With those climbing numbers, Utah in 2001 had the second highest domestic violence rate in the nation. Source url: http://byumedia.com/story.cfm/34616
Utah's White-Collar crime reputation: (The second note below shows this problem is endemic & specific to the Mormon church):
* Frustrated by the wave of fraud that by one estimate took $750 million out of Utahns' pocketbooks last year, regulators, law enforcement officials and attorneys are organizing a free 'Fraud College' next month in Utah County for the public to call attention to the problem and to try to combat it. Source headline: Preying on the faithful: Though Mormons often victims, LDS Church skips fraud-prevention event [Click on first link above for linkage to actual article]
* White-collar crime isn't new...Utah has long been host to the most per-capita fraud in America: Salt Lake City, with a mere 170,000 residents, is by far the countrys smallest city where the scam-fighting U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission has an office. It has been there since the early 1950s. Why? There is a lot of fraud here per capita, says local SEC boss Kenneth Israel. There doesnt seem to be any shortage of work for us. [Source url: http://www.lds-mormon.com/6303056a.shtml ]
* Utah was #1 in mortgage fraud in America by 2001 when the FBI listed Utah as No. 1 in the country for the amount of mortgage fraud cases reported. [Source url: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600151169,00.html ]
And then -- as of three years ago -- Utah was in the Top 5 of foreclosures...The Provo area (Utah Co.)...which has almost 90% Lds...was one of the Top 35 regions nationally in foreclosures...
(And here we thought the Mormon church "helped its own" -- when Lds can't even get away from mandatory 10% tithing if parents want to see their own children married in the Mormon temple!)
You’re right. Their hatred is getting old. It’s like the conservative version of Jeremiah Wright.
Go out on a ledge...give a solid prediction: Which of these states will Romney win?
Don't just engage in ad hominen attacks because you have no other arsenal available...give us a bold statement and back it up with facts!
Which of those states will Romney win? And why do you think so?
And how much money did the Catholic church "fleece" from fellow Catholics?.....and continue to do so?
I'm sure bringing the Catholics into this is probably going to get me "burned at the stake".....so be it.
How about the money that Jimmy Swaggert, Robert Shuller, Oral Roberts, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, and others fleeced from other people??
You deflected nicely.
Your question what about mormons and you made it about Catholics.
They should not have left.
Revelation 3:16 - But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth!
It's obvious which posters are "becoming seriously unhinged" when you look at the frenzy of the responses to sourced, factual truths about mormonism!
There is no possible way for them to refute your posts, Colo...so the ad hominems are flying! THIS should drive 'em nuts!
No, it is called telling the truth...
I can't tell you. I am no psychic who can predict the future, nor would I want to be (it's a sin).
You seem to be quite intent on "predicting" the future....which is against His law.
Did your "psychic" tell you these things?
On the other hand, when posters claim thing like "Mitt Romney's grandfather was a polygamist," I point out that he wasn't and lead them through the family tree.
I'm interested in Mormon history (Mormon, because much of that history pre-dates formation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, with a hyphen) much more than theology. I just get irritated when facts of history are altered or denied.
As for the theology, I believe that everyone is entitled to his or her religious beliefs.
Swaggert was guilty of adultery, not fraud.
The other two's "marketing" could be deemed suspect...but before you go on with your outright libel and slander...perhaps you should do the proper thing and simply "repent" of bearing false witness vs. a few of your neighbors...
Anyone one of us, who read their Bible, knew this time was coming.
I just didn't think I'd be living in it. I always saw it SOOOOOO far away, because I simply could not imagine it happening.
I’m not worried about the LDS... To me Radical Islam is worse..
No deflection intended. I am not Catholic, but have many Catholic friends.
I was raised Lutheran and decided to go back to the church I was raised in.
He was NOT there. I thought it was me. Later I found out they were a part of the “evangelical” part of the Lutheran church.
It’s not just Catholics. One thing I still hold against them is the horrible way they treated their congregation, in which the young ones were treated in a perversion way....and their cover up of it all.
I do believe MOST religions in this day DO NOT abide by His Word.
Anyone worried about the LDS need to have their heads examined.
The light of truth brings out the ugly. I care no more.
I keep remembering, when I come across such people, what the Lord said.....Remember, they hated me before they hated you (probably not word for word, but still the TRUTH).