Skip to comments.Lds Temple Haunted? Did Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to leader? [Vanity]
Posted on 07/04/2012 6:18:30 AM PDT by Colofornian
St. George Mormon Temple Haunted? Did the Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to a later Lds 'prophet'?
Without saying his name, Mormon leaders and grassroots Mormons daily reference Wilford Woodruff when they interact with non-Mormons and the media.
Well, they like to tell others how polygamy is a supposed bygone of another era; how a certain Lds "prophet" in 1890 put the kabosh on it...or, at least, started a mainstream Mormon move toward monogamy.
Yet, there's a little-known episode that this same Wilford Woodruff said that occurred in the 1870s -- before becoming the head "prophet" of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In the last two weeks before he left the St. George, Utah temple, we have at least four accounts that claim that the spirits of the signers of the Declaration of Independence -- with George Washington -- having supposedly appeared to Woodruff.
Is the temple haunted? Were these indeed ghosts of the signers?
Could they have been demons in disguise as ghosts?
Or was the one "prophet" that even contemporary Mormons appeal to as the "authoritative" voice of God on polygamy vs. monogamy perhaps given to wild religious fantasies?
Furthermore, does the official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints play down this occultic episode as being just a small event in the life of Woodruff?
Or are the sources questionable?
The answer to these last two questions is: Not at all.
In fact anybody can go to Lds.org and find Lesson 39 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teachers Manual, where they would see a Sunday School lesson plan that actually plays it up and highlights Woodruff's claims...giving credence that contemporary Mormons buy into it! -- The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers
In fact, in the lesson plan detailing the account, Mormon church curricula writers then have their teachers ask the question:
What can we learn from these two stories? (Answers could include that those who are dead are anxious for us to perform ordinances for them and that we should be diligent in our efforts to redeem the dead.)
So the Mormon church actually see such occultic ghostly/demonic encounters as evidential of some spiritual "need" to baptize dead spirits!
Furthermore, Brigham Young University also includes the account as part of their curricula for incoming freshmen who have taken their "Religious Education Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)" course.
In the BYU version of the account, the comment includes how "those men who laid the foundation of this American Government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men."
Yet Lds doctrine is that ALL men and ALL church members of the 18th century were "apostates." Joseph Smith claimed that when entities appeared to him -- supposedly early in the 19th century -- that he wasn't to join any of the churches that the founding fathers of our country were part of...plus Smith specifically said that these unnamed entities told him that "all" professors (professing believers) were "corrupt" (see Lds "scripture," Joseph Smith History, Pearl of Great Price, verses 18-20). How could the signers of the Declaration of Independence be simultaneously "choice spirits, not wicked" -- and "corrupt?"
Official Mormon doctrine emerged -- a doctrine that remains to this day -- that the historic Christian church went into complete apostasy well before the Founding Fathers came along and remained in apostasy in the 18th century. How can BYU label the founding fathers "apostates?" How can they "play it both ways" -- that the Founding Fathers were both apostates and "choice spirits, not wicked?"
Four accounts of The Haunting of St. George Temple:
1870s (Last two weeks before Woodruff left the temple):
Account #1 (BYU curricula): The following account of Wilford Woodruff helps demonstrate the importance of this work to those who are on the other side of the veil. I am going to bear my testimony to this assembly, if I never do it again in my life, that those men who laid the foundation of this American Government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men. George Washington and all the men that labored for the purpose were inspired of the Lord. Another thing I am going to say here, because I have a right to say it. Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington called upon me, as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the house of God for them. Men are here, I believe, that know of thisBrothers J. D. T. McAllister, David H. Cannon and James C. Bleak. Brother McAllister baptized me for all these men, and I then told these brethren that it was their duty to go into the Temple and labor until they got endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me, as an Elder in Israel, to perform that work if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. I bear this testimony because it is true. The spirit of God bore record to myself and the brethren while we were laboring in that way (Lundwall, 1947, p. 87). Source: Religious Education C261 Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)
Account #2 (personal journal of Chief Record of the St. George temple): Temple and witnessed the appearance of the Spirits of the Signers... .the spirits of the Presidents...And also others, such as Martin Luther and John Wesley...Who came to Wilford Woodruff and demanded that their baptism and endowments be done. Wilford Woodruff was baptized for all of them. While I and Brothers J.D.T. McAllister and David H Cannon (who were witnesses to the request) were endowed for them. These men.. ..laid the foundation of this American Gov., and signed the Declaration of Independence and were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth to perform this work. Martin Luther and John Wesley helped to release the people from religious bondage that held them during the dark ages. They also prepared the peoples hearts so they would be ready to receive the restored gospel when the Lord sent it again to men on the earth. (Personal journal of James Godson Bleak-Chief Recorder of the St. George Temple) p. 2 of this pdf: http://chapmanresearch.org/PDF/Vision%20of%20Former%20Eminent%20Men%20in%20The%20St%20George%20Temple.pdf Glen W. Chapman, Jan, 2002, "Vision of Former Eminent Men in The St. George Temple"
Account #3 (Journal of Discourses): Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington, called upon me as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George, two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the House of God for them. Men are here, I believe, that know of this, Brother J. D. T. McAllister, David H. Cannon and James S. Bleak. Brother McAllister baptized me for all those men, and then I told these brethren that it was their duty to go into the temple and labor until they had got endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me as an elder of Israel, to perform that work, if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. JoD, vol. 19, pp. 229-231, Sept. 16, 1877
Account #4 (Official Lds curricula): Explain that for a period of time, President Woodruff served as president of the temple in St. George, Utah. It was in that temple that endowments for the dead were performed for the first time in this dispensation (see Doctrines of Salvation, 2:171). While serving there, President Woodruff was visited by the spirits of many eminent men who had died. Invite a class member to share the following account by President Woodruff: The spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we
remained true to it and were faithful to God. These were the signers of the Declaration of Independence [of the United States of America], and they waited on me for two days and two nights.
I straightway went into the baptismal font and called upon Brother McAllister to baptize me for the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and fifty other eminent men, making one hundred in all, including John Wesley, Columbus, and others (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, sel. G. Homer Durham , 16061). What can we learn from these two stories? (Answers could include that those who are dead are anxious for us to perform ordinances for them and that we should be diligent in our efforts to redeem the dead.) ((Lds Sunday School lesson from "Doctrine and Covenants and Church History," "The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers," p. 3)
Source: Lesson 39 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teachers Manual -- The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers
Therefore, it cannot be written off as some mere obscure historical "tale of lore."
Of course! They came to the LDS temple to get baptized.
When you beleive yourself to be the most special people on the face of the earth, qualified to take over everything because some flim flam man told you his first vision all 14 version of the first one, you are capable of seeing anything in this delusional state.
So yes, several people probably did see what they believed, to be spirits of the founders but those of us who know whats what know what they were and spirit is not the word I would use.
Can we please just stipulate and agree that the religious leanings of both candidates for President this year are either flaky or non-existent?
As far as I’m concerned, this must be a non-issue, so can we please save it till after November?
At least Mormons aren’t into beheadings and jihad.
Exposure of mormonISM is not an election issue.
Exposure of mormonISM is not an election issue. [svcw]
Exposure of MormonISM indeed is exposure in EVERY season, political or not.
At least Mormons arent into beheadings and jihad.
(a) If this is supposed to be a positive talking point about MormonISM, which DOZENS of FREEPERs have brought up over several years, I fail to see that.
(b) If this is supposed to be a veiled reference to Obama's closet/dormant Muslim status, then it directly contradicts your first talking point, Jedidah: Can we please just stipulate and agree that the religious leanings of both candidates for President this year are either flaky or non-existent
(Can't be simultaneously jihadist and non-existent)
We don’t know what Obama believes, if anything. Therefore, he may be a muslim, may be an agnostic, may be an abomination.
No contradiction whatsoever to admit that we do not know.
For many years Mountain Meadows was considered haunted and local Mormons would not go near there at night. Wonder why.
Let us assume you were talking about MormonISM -- and its flakiness.
1. Romney is an ex-Mormon bishop who has gone on record saying he does not disavow the "faith of" (his) "fathers."
2. This religion is probably what he would deem to be the most important part of his life.
3. Taking all of that religion at face value shows a definitive lack of discernment. People who plan on voting for Romney need to keep in mind they are part and parcel then of placing one who is vulnerable to deception as THE leader of the free world. Don't be surprised then were this outright gullibility to deception raise its ugly head in especially foreign policy issues. Gullibility in the important areas of a person's life tend to cascade and waterfall into other areas.
Also, people who vote for gullibility become-by-extension part of "THE gullible" -- and pay the consequences for that. People talk about the economy tanking as if that would be the worst thing in their lives; they are sad, forgetful students who neglect the lessons of the 1930s and early 1940s. Many people who suffered the Depression worldwide would tell you those were "golden years" compared to what their families endured during WWII.
But go ahead, Romney voters: Tell God you're willing to vote for somebody raising themselves up as His competitor -- and that you'd prefer WWIII to another Depression, any day!
4. People rightly talk about the reprehensible character of Obama; yet by contrast and comparison, a guy who portends to be a "god-in-embryo" on his way up to full-grown godhood displays the character of an outright egomaniac full of hubris, pride, and arrogance. Romney's character, therefore, is NO improvement over Obama. In fact, placing a person who considers himself "divine" as THE leader of the Free World is downright dangerous.
Now, I'm sure we'll get the FREEPER chippers who chip in with their cutesy, "Obama thinks he IS God" statements. And that might be so. But prove it. I've yet to see any evidence provided, other than milquetoast wimpy claims to Obama's so-called "divinity."
“Therefore, it cannot be written off as some mere obscure historical “tale of lore.””
Sure it can if it’s weighed within the bias of it’s origin and environment of perpetuation.
Allow me to clarify my statement: I should have said: Therefore, it cannot be written off by Mormons as some mere obscure historical tale of lore.
Indeed, the rest of us can -- and should -- write off what plenty of Mormon "prophets" have said as mere cultic mythical folklore.
My comment was more addressing Lds who tend to write off many 19th century comments and tales from their leaders of that era as merely that. Yet, when these same statments get official CURRENT sanction by the Lds church and placed into its CURRENT curricula, including its BYU curricula, then it has rec'd OFFICIAL Lds Church, Inc. imprimatur status.
I’m hearing in your post “Knowledge is bad”
More from the Vote Obama people—They wanted Mitt because they thought he would be easy to beat—with his Mormon Thing. Sorry, I would vote for Mitt over Obama even if he had six wives and ate dogs for Breakfast. (That sounds more like Obama’s Daddy).
I want it advertised to the hilt BEFORE the RNC meets; so that the LOSER Romney gets tossed out for a WINNER in November!
The media and the Dems will NOT let the crap that infests MORMONism slide by, and it will sink Mitt faster than Titanic II!