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THE TOP TEN MOST SURPRISING 'MORMON TEACHINGS' ABOUT MORMON HEAVEN and AFTER-LIFE [Vanity]
Colofornian | July 4, 2012 | Colofornian

Posted on 07/04/2012 2:04:01 PM PDT by Colofornian

The Mormon-churched owned Deseret Newspaper announced Tuesday (July 3) (for indirect link, see Deseret News Exclusive: ABC '20/20' special on 'Heaven' will include Mormon perspective [Surprises?]) that ABC's upcoming Friday Night re-airing of "Heaven: Where is it? How do we get there?" would include a new segment with Lds representative Elder William R. Walker, "a general authority who oversees the temple department, to New York City" based upon a "sit-down interview with Barbara Walters near the Manhattan Temple last month."

Per the Deseret News, "The 'Heaven' special originally aired back in December 2005 and featured interviews with religious leaders from virtually all of the leading world religions. But the LDS Church was not among those featured. With nine out of 10 Americans claiming to believe in heaven, the show was one of the most-watched programs in the history of network television. 'We felt the program was so good and so strong we wanted to rerun it,' Walters said. 'And with Gov. Romney running for president, we felt it was very important to include the Mormon point of view this time.'"

While the Deseret News claimed that "Elder Walker definitely delivered the Mormon point of view in a wide-ranging exchange with Walters that covered everything from what goes on in Mormon temples to the practice of baptizing for the dead to the concept of eternal marriage..." Barbara Walters undoubtedly missed...

THE TOP TEN MOST SURPRISING 'MORMON TEACHINGS' ABOUT MORMON HEAVEN and AFTER-LIFE (Most of which Barbara Walters would have flunked in covering for this week's special)!!!

Hence, these are included below for your inspection:

RANK

SURPRISING MORMON AFTERLIFE BELIEF

EXPLANATION/SOURCE

10. Upon death, ALL -- Mormon and non-Mormon alike -- enter a godless intermediate place called the "spirit world." This Mormon "spirit world" is "the place of residence for all those who have died and are awaiting the resurrection and the inseparable connection of their spirits and bodies. Thus, it is not the place where God the Father, the resurrected Lord, and other resurrected beings dwell. Rather, it is an intermediate condition or state where people await the resurrection—a sphere where disembodied spirits live in one of several conditions according to what their mortal lives have merited." (Source: The Spirit World, Our Next Home -- official magazine of the Mormon church, published December of 1977 by Dale C. Mouritsen) Also: Note that where you live -- ghetto-wise in this "spirit world" -- depends upon mere merit. (See also #4 below for more on "merit" status)
9. This Mormon 'spirit world' is actually tied to this earth, where Mormon "missionaries" earthlings die and then become Mormon "spirit missionaries" on the other side of death The Mormon spirit world is "on this earth." Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson declared that “the spirit world is not far away. Sometimes the veil between this life and the life beyond becomes very thin." (Source: The Spirit World, Our Next Home -- official magazine of the Mormon church, published December of 1977 by Dale C. Mouritsen). This Mormon "spirit world" is no place of rest as the Bible describes heaven. Yup, for Mormons "...the spirit world is the place where disembodied spirits go. It is a tangible, substantial sphere incorporated with our earth, the focal point of a massive missionary effort in which we share." (Source: The Spirit World, Our Next Home -- official magazine of the Mormon church, published December of 1977 by Dale C. Mouritsen). Thus, Lds get to continue to earn their way to heaven by trying to bump up others along the way -- becoming "saviors" in the process! See #8 for more on this!
8. And where does Baptism of the dead intersect with the alleged activity of disembodied Mormon "spirit missionaries?" Those spirit missionaries are going to those in temporary spirit prison to tell them they've been proxy baptized, which, in turn fulfills the very purpose of EVERY Mormon coming to planet earth from the planet Kolob. And what was that purpose, per Lds third "prophet" John Taylor -- as repeated in an official LDS church book published in 2001? 'Twas simple: "We came here to be saviors. 'What, saviors?' 'Yes.' 'Why, we thought there was only one Savior.' 'Oh, yes, there a great many.'" Source of Taylor quote: Deseret News, Feb. 11, 1873, as quoted in 2001 in the official Lds church book, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor, p. 187 (For similar such quotes that regard Mormons as competing "saviors" to Jesus Christ, see: Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others?)
7. Mormon leaders tell us hell's going to be cancelled like some bad Fall TV program. Hence, Mormon baptism of the dead then becomes a sort of 'get out of hell' card (into a low-degree of heaven) -- like Monopoly's 'Get out of jail card.' The wicked go to "spirit prison," which is not eternal hell. Mormon leaders tell us hell's going to "...hell...is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the opportunity to repent and accept ordinances for them that are performed." (Official Lds publication, True to the Faith, 2004, p. 81) Boy is that getting out of hell free or what? Or how about Doctrine & Covenants 19:16-18, which says that hell/outer darkness is for the few? Yet they are still "saved": "After suffering in full for their sins they will be allowed to inherit the lowest degree of glory which is the telestial kingdom. The hell in the spirit world will not continue forever." (Official Lds publication, Gospel Principles, p. 280)
6. The Book of Mormon is actually closer to the Bible on describing the eternality of hell than current Mormon teachings!!! * Helaman 6:28 and Moroni 8:13 in the Book of Mormon describe hell as being "everlasting" and "endless." * Mormon leaders, why does Mosiah 2:38-39 in the Book of Mormon say hell is a never-ending torment? An unquenchable fire? * Why does the Mormon book within the Book of Mormon describe a condition as a “misery that NEVER dies”??? (Mormon 8:38) * Why does Alma 42:16 in the Book of Mormon say that eternal punishment is as eternal as the life of the soul? [Since the life of the soul is NOT temporary, what implications does that leave?] * Why does Alma 34:32-35 in the Book of Mormon say there's no second chance: For behold THIS LIFE is the time for men to prepare to meet God...do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life...then cometh the night of darkness wherein THERE CAN BE NO LABOR PERFORMED. Ye CANNOT say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will reprent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye CANNOT say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. (I cited parts of vv. 32-34) [Please see also Alma 12:24 that says that "life is a time to prepare for eternal state after resurrection" -- not the after life!!!] * Why does both Mosiah 16:11 & 1 Nephi 15:35 in the Book of Mormon say there's only TWO destinations post-death (not a third called "spirit prison"). And the BoM knows only heaven & hell -- no temporary spirit prison (Mormn 9:23; Ether 4:18; Hel. 14:18-19; Alma 3:26; Alma 40:26; 2 Nephi 2:28-29; 2 Nephi 9:16; Alma 41:4; 3 Nephi 27:11,17; 2 Nephi 28:21-22). * Very early in Joseph Smith's theology, Joseph did an "about face" on the eternality of hell and tried to claim that hell was described as "eternal" because God was eternal; that hell was described as "everlasting" because God was everlasting. IOW, he tried to change it to an adjective description of God -- of the type of punishment. But we have other verses in the Book of Mormon -- like Helaman 7:16 -- where it just doesn't "work" as an adjective: "Yea, how could you have given way to the enticing of him who is seeking to hurl away your souls down to everlasting misery and endless wo." Is "wo" just a "type" of wo because of who issued it? Sorry...'tis quite plain -- and you can't play with words...Anybody speaking plain English would interpret the above as "without end." Don’t you get the feeling that Mormon leader propaganda has the effect that even their BoM verses are subject to scissors – being cut out – if it doesn’t fit with what their leaders say?
5. "Eternal life" is redefined to be an exclusive term that applies to temple Mormons ONLY! "Eternal life" is thus reserved for legalistically abiding Mormons ONLY. "Eternal life" does NOT = ALL living forever with Heavenly Father; 'tis ONLY applies for those who EARN exaltation...and "exaltation" is a Mormon by-word for becoming a god!Hence, to the Mormon, resurrection alone does not = eternal life. Yes, Mormons believe that just about all people become immortal due to the resurrection. But "eternal life" is ONLY for those who live in the presence of Heavenly Father -- and become "gods" themselves (what Mormons call "exaltation"...To Mormons, "exaltation" and "eternal life" are interchangeable terms...but "eternal life" and heaven-as-a-residence for non-Mormons are not interchangeable terms..."eternal life" is ONLY for Mormons! * Eternal life is a term which always means ‘exaltation,’ when used in the Scriptures (John 3:15; Romans 6:23; 1 John 1:2; 2 Nephi 2:28; D&C 5:22; 18:8; 131:5; 138:51; Moses 1:39).” (David R. Ridges, Mormon Beliefs and Doctrines Made Easier, p. 88) Sub-title: “WHAT IS EXALTATION? Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life that God lives.” (Older 1970s version, p. 289) * ”Exaltation is a synonym for eternal life. Exaltation comes only to those who inherit the highest degree within the celestial kingdom…it consists in the continuation of the family unit throughout eternity; it is the type of life that is lived by our Heavenly Father.” (Daniel H. Ludlow, A Companion to Your Study of the Doctrines and Covenants, 2:85) * Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge, and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.” (Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 302) * “Eternal life…In fact…means exaltation. He who receives the greatest portion of eternal life becomes a God.” (Milton R. Hunter, an LDS Seventy, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 11) * Exaltation means godhood, creatorship. ‘As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 53) * “Exaltation is the greatest of all the gifts and attainments possible. It is available only in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom and is reserved for members of the Church of the Firstborn. This exalted status, called eternal life, is available to be received by a man and a wife. It means not only living in God’s presence, but receiving power to do as God does, including the power to bear children after the resurrection.” (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:479 Quote for resurrection alone not = 'eternal life': * “…resurrection alone does not qualify us for eternal life in the presence of God…we need His grace to purify and perfect us ‘after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23).” (Truth to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, Intellectual Reserve, 2004, p. 77)
4. Trusting in Jesus Christ and relating to Jesus Christ for the Mormon thereby only amounts to what your life MERITS. Yup. You're ONLY a cosmic Boy Scout! The final quote in the previous row was: “…resurrection alone does not qualify us for eternal life in the presence of God…we need His grace to purify and perfect us ‘after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23).” (Truth to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, Intellectual Reserve, 2004, p. 77) Hence -- for MORMONS -- heaven isn't a gift...it's based upon "all you can do" and merits: * Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life (Lds apostle Robert D. Hales, “Personal Revelation: The Teachings and Examples of the Prophets,” Ensign (Conference Edition), Nov. 1985, p. 20) * “…immortality is to live forever in the resurrected state, and by the grace of God all men will gain this unending continuance of life. But ONLY THOSE who obey the fullness of the gospel law will inherit eternal life. (D&C 29:43-44)…it is the kind, status, type, and quality of life that God himself enjoys. Thus those who gain eternal life receive exaltation; they are sons of God, joint-heirs with Christ…they overcome all things, have all power, and receive the fullness of the Father. THEY ARE GODS.” McConkie, p. 237, 1979 ed. [My note: Of course, McConkie cites D&C 29:43-44…but these verses say no such thing…v. 43 actually says that ”immortality unto eternal life” is given to ”as many as would BELIEVE”…’shifty’ McConkie…trying to pull a rabbit when no hat exists] * “The…gift of eternal life…is conditional. In order to qualify, one must deny oneself of ungodliness and honor the ordinance and covenants of the temple.” (Lds apostle Russell M. Nelson, “Divine Love,” Ensign, Feb. 2003, p. 24 * "Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on MERIT -- through the faithful performance of duty - ONLY those who are WORTHY shall receive it." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:5) These citations are outright heresy taught by heretics! If you don't believe Mormons teach you have to "work" for eternal life vs. Jesus giving it to us NOW in a relationship with Him that starts now, then may I suggest you first read John 17:3 -- and then compare to these above citations from Lds leaders! For another thread on this topic, please see: what qualifies people to live with heavenly father for all eternity? (MormonISM - open)

3. If you qualify for Mormon full grown-up godhood status, you will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. Yup...temple Lds believe they will have the SAME creative power their god, who was once a man, had; and that they will receive prayers as well as worship, glory, adoration, etc. Both the 2009 Lds Gospel Principles book -- see Exaltation (The Plan for Our Progression)-Mormon (OPEN)...and one who reaches out to Lds, Pastor Mark Cares, see “As man is God once was; as God is, man may become.” [Infamous couplet highlights Lds polytheism] ...highlight these five supposed "blessings" that temple Mormons ALONE are to receive: a. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76:62). (My note: And this is for TEMPLE Mormons only...which, right now, is only 15-20% of all Mormons!) b. They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23). (My note: See McConkie quote above as well) c. They will be united eternally with their righteous family members and will be able to have eternal increase. (My note: "Elder Walker" does discuss this on Barbara Walters' upcoming special...as Lds think this is some sort of trump card of their 'gospel' that's attractive) d. They will receive a fulness of joy. e. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20).” (Yup...temple Lds believe they will have the SAME creative power their god, who was once a man, had; will receive prayers; worship, glory, adoration, etc.)
2. You -- if you're a tithing married Mormon in good standing ONLY with the Mormon church -- get to not only be a 'god' -- but a god of your own world!!!!! (This, of course, includes eternal physical sex with either your wife or wives in order to propagate that world with 'spirit children') Some Mormons deny that Lds teach that you "get your own world as a god." For the scoop, see Mormon Professors Confuse Doctrine and Rumor (especially note post #5 of that thread) Here is a sample quotation from a Mormon "prophet": “To become like him we must have ALL the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an EARTH LIKE THIS ONE WE ARE ON and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and HAVE JURISDICTION OVER WORLDS, AND THESE WORLDS WILL BE PEOPLED BY OUR OWN OFFSPRING. WE WILL HAVE AN ENDLESS ETERNITY FOR THIS." Source: Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:48, as cited by The Mormon Church’s annual Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1978-79, p. 131
1. Mormon theology about heaven says it's a place -- at least for the 99% of people who would live there -- where Christians don't get to live with Heavenly Father forever!!!!! When Mormons talk about eternal life & exaltation, they're not just talking about "heaven" What's the "rest of the story"? * Mormons believe that only their “Melchizedek priests” (D&C 76:57) are the ones eligible for “dwell[ing] in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.” (D&C 76:62) In the Mormon view of heaven, ONLY those entering into Mormon "covenants" and obeying fully Mormon laws get to live forever in God's presence: * Eternal life is living with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in the celestial kingdom. This blessing--which is also called exaltation--comes only to those who keep the commandments and make the necessary covenants (Source: Preparing for Exaltation Teacher's Manual, p. 4, 1998) * ”Immortality is to live forever as a resurrected being. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will receive this gift. Eternal life, or exaltation, is to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, where we will live in God’s presence and continue as families.” (same source, p. 52) * “’Eternal life’ is a higher state than immortality alone and means to live forever in a resurrected condition in the presence of God, and to become like God…Eternal life is exaltation into the type and quality of life that God lives. Receiving eternal life is conditional, predicated upon obedience to the fullness of gospel law and ordinances (D&C 29:43-44; 130:20-21). It requires voluntary obedience to all of the ordinances and principles of the gospel…continuing through…the covenants of the Endowment and marriage in the temple…” (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:677-678)


TOPICS: Apologetics; Other non-Christian; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: antichristian; heaven; inman; lds; mittromney; mormon
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From the article: The Mormon-churched owned Deseret Newspaper announced Tuesday (July 3) (see Deseret News Exclusive: ABC '20/20' special on 'Heaven' will include Mormon perspective [Surprises?]) that ABC's upcoming Friday Night re-airing of "Heaven: Where is it? How do we get there?" would include a new segment with Lds representative Elder William R. Walker, "a general authority who oversees the temple department, to New York City" based upon a "sit-down interview with Barbara Walters near the Manhattan Temple last month."

Barbara Walters undoubtedly missed...

THE TOP TEN MOST SURPRISING 'MORMON TEACHINGS' ABOUT MORMON HEAVEN and AFTER-LIFE (Most of which Barbara Walters would have flunked in covering for this week's special)!!!


1 posted on 07/04/2012 2:04:12 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
The #1 MOST SURPRISING 'MORMON TEACHINGS' ABOUT MORMON HEAVEN and AFTER-LIFE is simply this: Mormon theology about heaven says it's a place -- at least for the 99% of people who would live there -- where Christians don't get to live with Heavenly Father forever!!!!!

Hence, the "Mormon" view of heaven -- at least for the 99% of people who would live there -- means a Heavenly Fatherless "heaven."

Along these lines, here's a sample dialogue -- which you can utilize with a Mormon co-worker, relative, or acquaintance, to yield some clarification -- especially if they accuse you of "condemning them to hell":

JOE MORMON: "Why do you condemn me to hell?"

N. CHRISTIAN: "You believe in three degrees of glory, do you not?"

JOE MORMON: "You know I do."

N. CHRISTIAN: "And don't you therefore believe, that Jesus can reside in two of these three glories?"

JOE MORMON: "You know I do."

N. CHRISTIAN: "And how many of these glories does Heavenly Father reside in?"

JOE MORMON: "One. The celestial one."

N. CHRISTIAN: "Do Christians get to reside there?"

JOE MORMON. "No. Only members of the church of the Firstborn do."

N. CHRISTIAN: "And Christian churches. Do Mormon leaders regard them as part of the 'church of the firstborn?'"

JOE MORMON: "Uh, no. 'Fraid not. But, you'll still be saved. Just a different degree of glory."

N. CHRISTIAN: "And so you're telling me that 'salvation' in your eyes includes NEVER being reconciled to Heavenly Father? NEVER, EVER able to live in His Presence again = 'salvation'...equals 'heaven' to you??? REALLY???"

JOE MORMON (now looking for a place to hide, in a stumble-mumble): "Uh...Uh...Uh..."

N. CHRISTIAN: "Let me go 'on the record' here to make myself 'perfectly clear': Whatever you regard as part of the afterlife that excludes the Presence of Heavenly Father, you can take that Mormon ghettoized false-gospel of yours and you can shove it to hell where it belongs! If you consider a Heavenly Fatherless 'heaven' to be 'heaven,' I don't want it! If you consider a Heavenly Fatherless 'heaven' to be FUTURE ETERNAL 'salvation,' then that ain't it!"

N. CHRISTIAN (continuing): "You, Joe Mormon! You of all people! One who believes that EACH of us was spirit-born to Heavenly Father in the pre-existence. And who desires for us to be reconciled to Him. You, who puts such emphasis on the divine family! You actually deem it to be a 'family reunion' when the 'family reunion' excludes the ULTIMATE PATRIARCH of the Family! Wow! How offensive can your false gospel get???!!! After all, what's a 'Christian' who won't live with Heavenly Father eternally?" (See John 17:3)

2 posted on 07/04/2012 2:08:41 PM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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THX 1138 march


3 posted on 07/04/2012 2:16:15 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Colofornian

AND your point is what???


4 posted on 07/04/2012 2:31:45 PM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Colofornian
BTW, care to let us all in on what Religion you practice and what it takes for you to get to heaven and what "your" heaven is like???
6 posted on 07/04/2012 2:41:45 PM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet
AND your point is what???

MORMONism is a HERESY; and those who believe it's lies are DECEIVED.

7 posted on 07/04/2012 2:47:19 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

A humble thank you for your service and I do hope you have a happy Independence Day.


8 posted on 07/04/2012 2:47:28 PM PDT by Tamzee (Thomas Jefferson - "Every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle.")
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet
BTW, care to let us all in on what Religion you practice and what it takes for you to get to heaven and what "your" heaven is like???


1 Corinthians 2:9 kjv

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.


So; is the bible LYING or is MORMONism???

9 posted on 07/04/2012 2:52:52 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet
... what "your" heaven is like???


Small glimpse...
 
 
Revelation 21:4

He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.

10 posted on 07/04/2012 2:53:32 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet
BTW, care to let us all in on what Religion you practice and what it takes for you to get to heaven and what "your" heaven is like???


John 6:28-29 (niv)

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

 


1 John 3:21-24

  Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.  And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.  The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.


11 posted on 07/04/2012 2:54:43 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
That's nice.

I don't care what other people believe in. There are many religions in this great country and we are all free to believe or not believe in any one of them.

All I know, is that from university on, I've met, got to know, studied and worked with quite a few Mormons. As a group, and I can only judge from my experience, they are generous, kind, fun, very hard working DECENT people. I've personally seen them raise funds for a victim of a drive by shooting...helping an inner city family out in a horrible situation. Also, I used to do service work for people with AIDS and end stage cancer...and WHO showed up to mow their lawn, or bring them ice cream or fresh watermelon? A variety of 19 year old young men. Young Mormon men.

Gosh. That left an impression upon me.

I don't care if they did come from the planet Kalob or SLC.

12 posted on 07/04/2012 3:03:33 PM PDT by Pigsley
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: Sudetenland

Plenty of freepers...as probably in the thousands...have attacked your reference to “another religion” — either generic islam or specific jihadism ... meaning this comment of yours applies to those freepers as well


15 posted on 07/04/2012 3:51:22 PM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: Pigsley; Colofornian; svcw; Elsie
Gosh. That left an impression upon me.

I don't care if they did come from the planet Kalob or SLC.

Do you care if they lose their eternal soul?

16 posted on 07/04/2012 3:53:48 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Until the 52K LDS missionaries claiming Christian faith is bogus quit, I will post LDS truth.)
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To: Sudetenland
I agree with what you are trying to say, but as someone who's been there and done that, it is pointless to argue with the anti-Mormon fruitcake society.

I don't bother trying to respond to them any more, all you get are endlessly repeated 800-line screeds in ransom-note typography. I wonder if in real life they talk to their fellow humans like that??

The only thing that really ticks me off is when one of them pings the whole clown car to a thread which has nothing to do with Mormonism.

17 posted on 07/04/2012 3:58:29 PM PDT by Notary Sojac (Ut veniant omnes)
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To: Sudetenland

“The self-righteous like you do more to drive people away from God than all the seductive sinful pleasures combined”

Amen to that.


19 posted on 07/04/2012 4:25:54 PM PDT by Parley Baer
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To: Elsie; All
1 Corinthians 2:9 kjv: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

This is the answer to all of it...NO ONE KNOWS!

No human can really define God, no human can know the true path to salvation, although many people and religious preachers think they can...it's a matter of personal faith and trust.

Not everything is as obvious as the preaching of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright or the most extreme "fatwas" from Usama bin Laden, for example, and I would go so far as to say that IMHO, a tiny bit of good may have devolved somewhere among some people even from these horrible "translations" of "God". Religion is God-based, but man-made. If the various doctrines and preachings make you think and question, this is not all bad. Only God knows!

20 posted on 07/04/2012 4:57:22 PM PDT by 88keys (we had better get our act together, or Obama's re-elected...)
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To: greyfoxx39

I care about human beings. I believe in God. I share the message, when I can.

I am kinda feeling real American today...and therefor think that everybody has the right to figure things out, worship what they believe in and figure out the path of their own eternal soul.


21 posted on 07/04/2012 5:03:25 PM PDT by Pigsley
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To: Colofornian
This is amazing stuff. Keep up the good work getting the truth out about those wicked Mormons.

Love, Barack Hussein


22 posted on 07/04/2012 5:08:20 PM PDT by Dagnabitt (If I had a failed one-term President, he'd look like Obama.)
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To: Pigsley

Really? I wonder if you might be living in Oz. when my mormon aunt the wife of a bishop was in ICU for weeks, my uncle received NO help from his ward. (or from the rest of the mormon family members) He had four teenagers at home. Nothing zip nada - NO HELP. They lost everything. Not one love offering not a meal (except a pizza on Thanksgiving).
Real lds truth.


23 posted on 07/04/2012 5:14:52 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Dagnabitt

mormonISM not mormons - how hard is that to understand?


24 posted on 07/04/2012 5:17:29 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

FIND ANOTHER RELIGION.


25 posted on 07/04/2012 5:26:50 PM PDT by Pigsley
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

I am evangelical...watch the Friday abc show...I am positive they interviewed a few evangelicals re their view of heaven


26 posted on 07/04/2012 5:30:28 PM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: Pigsley
I don't care if they did come from the planet Kalob or SLC.

Can I assume that you are NOT a Christian?

27 posted on 07/04/2012 5:46:27 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Sudetenland
Tells me that you lack genuine faith in your own beliefs and therefore feel compelled to attack the beliefs of others.

Like you; I just HATE when that happens!



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

28 posted on 07/04/2012 5:47:58 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Sudetenland

So, by your estimation, does God live a “sad empty life” as well, since he “attacks” other peoples’ religion?

Jeremiah 7:
“8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.
9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;
10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?
11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the Lord.”

Jeremiah 14:
“14 Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
15 Therefore thus saith the Lord concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.
16 And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.”


29 posted on 07/04/2012 5:48:38 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Pigsley
Are you trying to be cryptic?

I have know idea what your reply actually meant.

This thread is about mormonISM.

If you are not interested and apparently you are not why not stay off the Religion Forum.

Of if you want to talk about FIND ANOTHER RELIGION, maybe you could start another thread.

As a side note your reply totally ignored what I posted, but I get that.

30 posted on 07/04/2012 5:50:25 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Sudetenland
...we should all be focused on what our Founding Fathers believed and fought to bequeath us.
 
 
 


The Mayflower Compact
In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.

Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic; for our better ordering, and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.In witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France, and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth, 1620.[13]


31 posted on 07/04/2012 5:51:00 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Notary Sojac
...it is pointless to argue with the anti-Mormon fruitcake society.

Well; if I lost all my arguments; I'd quit too!

Maybe you'd like to argue with Brigham Young instead???

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)


32 posted on 07/04/2012 5:53:35 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: 88keys
no human can know the true path to salvation

Really?

Jesus was really clear about the way to Salvation.

Thank your for your Oprahtion of God's Word.

33 posted on 07/04/2012 5:54:27 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Sudetenland
The self-righteous like you do more to drive people away from God than all the seductive sinful pleasures combined.

No, Ma'am. We are not SELF righteous at all; but being members of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints MAKES us righteous!!



34 posted on 07/04/2012 5:55:44 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Sudetenland
... The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints MAKES us righteous!!


You see....



 

MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
 

  1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
  2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t!
  3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t!
  4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal!
  5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers!
  6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t!
  7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t.
  8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
  9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. —                           -- You can’t.
12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- 
                           -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t.
18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably                              -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going!
21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where.
22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t.
23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple
                            -- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy  (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)
26.  I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).
 
 
Revision 46.5
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.

35 posted on 07/04/2012 5:57:47 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Pigsley
I am kinda feeling real American today...and therefor think that everybody has the right to figure things out, worship what they believe in and figure out the path of their own eternal soul.

Tomorrow, I am gonna feel real Christian...and therefor think that I have been commanded to do certain things for my Lord. Such as:

Matthew 28:20
Go ye into all the world...

and...

Luke 14:23
And the master said to the servant, 'Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled.

36 posted on 07/04/2012 6:01:15 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Pigsley
Acts 8:26-29 OWV 26 But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, “Arise and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a desert road.) 27 And he arose and went; and behold, there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship. 28 And he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29 And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot. Don't mess with him, as he has the RIGHT to figger it out for hisself.”
37 posted on 07/04/2012 6:03:56 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Notary Sojac; admin
I have thought about your post and you are free to leave the Religion Forum thread.

Rather than defend mormonISM and not contribute to the discussion, why not just leave.

Yes, I pinged the admin because of the next statement. I accept the consequences.

Go the hell away.

Hoping left just long enough to be seen.

38 posted on 07/04/2012 6:29:22 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Sudetenland

See post 38


39 posted on 07/04/2012 6:31:07 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw
Not to be offensive, but how do you know that? Except by faith and trust?

In the Bible, Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the light; no one comes to the Father except through me". But Jesus did not write the Bible, even though we believe it is indeed the Word of God.

The Bible was written by men (maybe women, too, not that they would get credit for it back in those days, although the Marys, Ruth & Esther at the very least must have contributed)...the point being that some truths seem "self-evident", BUT, the same is true for people who practice religions other than Christianity.

People have many different belief systems and practices of religion, even within the Christian denominations, and it's not for me to judge anyone except by their actions. I do not believe God or Jesus would deny salvation or heaven to anyone who had led an exemplary life in the Gospel, however "inadvertently" if they were not "Christian", according to the various Church rubrics.

BTW, I am not an Oprah fan by any stretch, or a fan of "theology lite"...I am just a fan of freedom of religion. People who do right and walk justly in their earthly life will be judged by God, not by you or me. In the same way, I think we can only judge people by their actions, not their religious tenets. Evangelizing is good work, but only if you keep it in a bigger perspective sometimes?

40 posted on 07/04/2012 6:57:04 PM PDT by 88keys (we had better get our act together, or Obama's re-elected...)
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To: 88keys

Ok?


41 posted on 07/04/2012 6:59:57 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: Sudetenland; svcw; All
I have an idea...

Let's just all celebrate Independence day, stop trying to convert each other or justify our own individual religious beliefs (only GOD really KNOWS!) and then just reconsider in the morning the crucial task at hand in our beloved Constitutional Republic...

I did not realize this was the "religion forum", but nevertheless, it's good to discuss these things, and thanks for your patience, fellow FReepers!

44 posted on 07/04/2012 7:43:26 PM PDT by 88keys (we had better get our act together, or Obama's re-elected...)
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: Sudetenland

Thank you for verifying my objections to your posts. Job well done.


46 posted on 07/04/2012 7:56:43 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: Sudetenland

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.


48 posted on 07/04/2012 8:08:28 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

Does this make the Chosen People super-duper self-righteous? Would a ‘non-believer’ be eligible for president to the people in this thread? Is the premiss here Romney is ineligible because he’s not a ‘real’ Christian?! Jeesh.... vote for Romney or the Republic dies. Find your totally awesome evangelical candidate (and please, not Suckabee) in 4 years...


49 posted on 07/04/2012 8:22:15 PM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Religion Moderator

Does this make the Chosen People super-duper self-righteous? Would a ‘non-believer’ be eligible for president to the people in this thread? Is the premiss here Romney is ineligible because he’s not a ‘real’ Christian?! Jeesh.... vote for Romney or the Republic dies. Find your totally awesome evangelical candidate (and please, not Suckabee) in 4 years...


50 posted on 07/04/2012 8:22:15 PM PDT by Phinneous
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