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Archbishop Chaput Closes Fortnight: What We Must Render Unto God and Unto Caesar
Catholic Online ^ | 7/5/12 | Deacon Keith Fournier

Posted on 07/05/2012 9:22:07 AM PDT by marshmallow

What do you and I, and all of us, really render to God in our personal lives?

On the Fourth of July, Archbishop Chaput delivered the closing homily before an overflow crowd gathered at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception on the campus of Catholic University. The Liturgy, along with others in major cities throughout the Nation, was to "close" the "Fortnight for Freedom" called by the US Catholic Bishops. His choice as the homilist was not accidental. Nor can the critical and essential intention of this fortnight, the protection and preservation of religious freedom, actually come to an end.

WASHINGTON, DC (Catholic online) - The Archbishop of Philadelphia, Charles Chaput, is one of America's great churchmen who has gained an international recognition for his preaching and teaching on the proper understanding of Catholics and their civic duty. His courage and prophetic clarity on the authentic view of faithful citizenship have inspired thousands to a new Catholic Action which is only just beginning.

On the Fourth of July, Archbishop Chaput delivered the closing homily before an overflow crowd gathered at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception on the campus of Catholic University. The Liturgy, along with others in major cities throughout the Nation, was to "close" the "Fortnight for Freedom" called by the US Catholic Bishops. His choice as the homilist was not accidental. Nor can the critical and essential intention of this fortnight, the protection and preservation of religious freedom, actually come to an end.

This prophetic Archbishop consistently calls all Catholics to live with what Pope Benedict XVI refers to as "moral coherence". This is not easy under the oppressive boot of what the same Pope properly called "the Dictatorship of Relativism." He has long challenged all of us who bear.........

(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 07/05/2012 9:22:15 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

I clicked on the Vatican link and got connected to: The Holy Shroud: One Big Bang and the body was gone.


2 posted on 07/05/2012 9:34:03 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: marshmallow

I clicked on the Vatican link and got connected to: The Holy Shroud: One Big Bang and the body was gone.


3 posted on 07/05/2012 9:34:20 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: marshmallow

What an amazingly confusing garble of newspeak was uttered by the ‘pathetic’ spokesman for the current pope who heads the new religion established subsequent to Vatican II.

Obfuscation results from using utterly confusing phrases and terms to deliberately shroud what this new religion is really all about.


4 posted on 07/05/2012 9:44:35 AM PDT by IbJensen (If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed)
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To: marshmallow
Nor can the critical and essential intention of this fortnight, the protection and preservation of religious freedom, actually come to an end.

Well isn't that special. Religious freedom is essential and a necessary condition to being a free person; however, it is not a sufficient condition. We must also have economic freedom to enjoy the fruits of our labors. This is something that the Catholic Church preaches AGAINST in their pastoral letter Economic Justice for All.

This letter (quite long btw) has such gems in it as "70. Distributive justice requires that the allocation of income, wealth, and power in society be evaluated in light of its effects on persons whose basic material needs are unmet." and ""It is of the very essence of social justice to demand from each individual all that is necessary for the common good." and "74. Basic justice also calls for the establishment of a floor of material well-being on which all can stand. This is a duty of the whole of society and it creates particular obligations for those with greater resources. This duty calls into question extreme inequalities of income and consumption when so many lack basic necessities."

Since the thing runs to 90 pages I will let you read it yourself to see how contradictory the official position of the church is with tru economic freedom.

5 posted on 07/05/2012 9:51:04 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga

You seem to have confused the Liberation Theology promoted by the USCCB, for the “Teachings of the Catholic Church”.

They are NOT the same thing!


6 posted on 07/05/2012 10:00:20 AM PDT by G Larry (I'm under no obligation to be a passive victim!)
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To: G Larry
They are NOT the same thing!

A distinction without a difference. Where then are the “Teachings of the Catholic Church?” Where are the official positions of the Catholic church if not in the USCCB? (Keeping in mind that one of those quotes was from a pope, not the USCBB.

7 posted on 07/05/2012 10:07:28 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga

The Teachings of the Catholic Church are found in the unadultrated Bible and are explained in the Catechism.

Since the link is blown, please provide the quote from the Pope, and I’ll be happy to address it.
Although, I susspect AB Chaput has done that work already in “Render unto Caeser”.
Charity is not the job of the government.


8 posted on 07/05/2012 10:19:02 AM PDT by G Larry (I'm under no obligation to be a passive victim!)
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To: G Larry
http://www.usccb.org/upload/economic_justice_for_all.pdf
paragraph #71. BTW the link works for me. When the entire church hierarchy says one thing, and some poster on FR says no no that isn't the real teaching, I get a little skeptical as to what the “Real teaching is.” The USCCB represents the official church hierarchy. You can claim they're not official, but in reality they are the voice of the church that everyone hears no matter how FOS the stuff they put out is.

Also I hear the same crap from the pulpit. I have yet to hear a priest who ever said "Poverty is a voluntary choice. People who don't want to be poor should work harder." or words to that effect. To the contrary, I am ceaslessly exhorted to give more and to "give back." etc. I have a special problem with the phrase "giving back." I can't give back anything that was't given to me in the first place. If I earned it, then I can give it or not give it, but I can't give it back. The church goes along with the 0bama philosophy that everything you have was given to you by the government. In fact with the exception of things to do with reproduction, and euthanasia, the church's stand on political matters pretty musch corresponds to that of the liberal wing of the Democratic party.

9 posted on 07/05/2012 10:47:55 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: G Larry
Charity is not the job of the government.

It happens only when the government tries to replace religion.

10 posted on 07/05/2012 10:48:05 AM PDT by Pecos ("We hold these truths to be self-evident ..... ")
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To: from occupied ga
"Well isn't that special."

If you are able to completely compartmentalize your moral life such that your economic and spiritual lives are in no way intertwined I pity you.

If you believe that human dignity realized in community with others, is the not criterion against which all aspects of economic life must be measured, from the moment of conception until the instance of natural death I pity you.

If you are able to convince yourself that you are in no way responsible for the millions in our community, country and around the world who hunger, thirst, and suffer, I pity you.

If you do not think that we as Christians will be individually judged by what we do and fail to do for the least of His brethren, I pity you. When Christians look into the face of those in need we do not look first to see if it looks like our face, we only see Jesus' face.

Christianity is not some abstract or hypothetical thought process played out only in pews or in internet forums, it is a way of life.

Peace be with you.

11 posted on 07/05/2012 11:32:32 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: from occupied ga

“The USCCB represents the official church hierarchy”

NOT when they contradict the Vatican!
Which has happend all too often in the last 50 years!


12 posted on 07/05/2012 11:34:12 AM PDT by G Larry (I'm under no obligation to be a passive victim!)
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To: from occupied ga

You need to quit going to the Church closest to your front door and find one that is faithful to the Vatican.

I drive an extra 5 miles for that reason.


13 posted on 07/05/2012 11:36:42 AM PDT by G Larry (I'm under no obligation to be a passive victim!)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: from occupied ga
"Well aren't you the sanctimonious little pharisee."

I am a sinner on a pilgrimage of conversion who once saw the world as you do.

Peace be with you

15 posted on 07/05/2012 11:55:45 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: from occupied ga
Basic justice also calls for the establishment of a floor of material well-being on which all can stand. This is a duty of the whole of society and it creates particular obligations for those with greater resources. This duty calls into question extreme inequalities of income and consumption when so many lack basic necessities.

Hmmm, Thou shall not steal; Thou shall not steal as a means to secure votes; Thou shall not steal as a means to vote in politicians that will make one comfortable in their sloth; Thou shall not steal as a means to lobby a secular government to provide for social justice; Thou shall not steal as a means to fund social justice through a barrel of a gun, threat of fine, and imprisonment.

Jesus must of been one heartless Jew due to the fact that lobbying Caesar to fund His projects was not even a thought or necessity. I guess an earthly bureacracy has their drawbacks along with the tyrannical emerging Roman Empire taking the place of the Republic. Give to Caesar what Caesar wants, not lobby Caesar to get what one deems holy.

Is Sainthood looming for Obama and many democrats like Pelosi? There distribution schemes for the poor are legend, plus they are supposedly Christian.

Does charity = lobbying through force of government to fund bloated bureacracies or free will from the potential giver directly to the reciever? Bishops, take your pick then cease the audacious verbosity because they are siding with the bureacratic $16,000,000,000,000 beast that is destroying religious freedom.
16 posted on 07/05/2012 12:34:18 PM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians)
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To: from occupied ga
When the entire church hierarchy says one thing,
The USCCB represents the official church hierarchy.

Nonsense. Only the obtuse would confuse that collective cabal of navel gazing buffoons at the USCCB with "the entire church hierarchy".

I'll bet you've never read QUOD APOSTOLICI MUNERIS or DIUTURNUM or LIBERTAS PRAESTANTISSIMUM, ad infinitum.

17 posted on 07/05/2012 1:43:41 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: GreyFriar
Archbishop Chaput Closes Fortnight: What We Must Render Unto God and Unto Caesar
18 posted on 07/05/2012 1:50:03 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: rollo tomasi
"Jesus must of been one heartless Jew due to the fact that lobbying Caesar to fund His projects was not even a thought or necessity."

Your objections seem to be based upon a premise that Catholics are outsiders to the political process and do not pay taxes. One in four Americans is Catholic and as such have significant input into the policies and spending decisions of this country.

The agenda of the Catholic Church is set by the Gospel of Jesus Christ and is not subject to the influence of Conservatives or Liberals or any single nation. Catholic allegiance is rightly first to God, not to country, party or political ideology. We are citizens of heaven first. We are patriots only to the degree that this country serves God and we best serve this country when we serve God. If you believe that the Church's position on abortion, religious freedom, euthanasia, opposition to communism, and defense of marriage is contrary to American interests then perhaps it is your agenda that is in need of change.

Peace be with you

19 posted on 07/05/2012 2:30:20 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: marshmallow
The link only goes to an article on the shroud. What?
20 posted on 07/05/2012 2:50:49 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: GreyFriar
Screwed up the link.

Click HERE for the rest of the story.

21 posted on 07/05/2012 3:02:51 PM PDT by marshmallow (.)
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To: count-your-change

See post #21.


22 posted on 07/05/2012 3:04:13 PM PDT by marshmallow (.)
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To: A.A. Cunningham; marsh-mellow

My thanks to both of you for the proper link. I shall share it.


23 posted on 07/05/2012 3:23:28 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Natural Law
“Your objections seem to be based upon a premise that Catholics are outsiders to the political process and do not pay taxes. One in four Americans is Catholic and as such have significant input into the policies and spending decisions of this country.”

No, has nothing to do with Catholicism, but everything to do with force, out of control bureaucracies, and perversions that promote dependency upon the system. This is not charity but coercion affecting many beliefs systems from Roman Catholics to agnostic. All individuals along with future generations are constrained by improper management of funds from a neutral power not giving a whiff of the intentions or "good faith" from the electorate. Government should be controlled and starved; not eventually evolving into a bastardized version of a would-be benevolent power seeking to cure all physical ills.

The proper action would be to limit government to the point where we direct our own resources where the individual wants them to go. The social justice racket just makes Christianity look like a modest looking prostitute. All prim and proper, but willing to be devoured by the beast that grows big enough to eventually over power and corrupt the core beliefs in exchange for resources.

24 posted on 07/05/2012 3:23:35 PM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians)
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To: zot; Interesting Times; SeraphimApprentice

Archbishop Chaput’s homily is worth reading. It also reminded me of the actual meaning of “render....”

The proper link is in posts 18 and 21, the link in the article leads to the Shroud of Turin story from a couple of days ago.


25 posted on 07/05/2012 3:30:42 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: from occupied ga
Here's some history on the Fortnight for Freedom.

Archbishop Chaput Closes Fortnight: What We Must Render Unto God and Unto Caesar
Government cannot take away true freedom, Archbishop Chaput teaches
Repair my house: renewing the roots of religious liberty
Rally opposes government intervention in religious matters
Novena for Religious Freedom for the United States of America (Prayer)

FREEDOM! US Catholic Church Rolls Out Major Offensive Against Obama’s Attacks on Religious Liberty
Opening Mass for the Fortnight for Freedom, Thursday 7PM ET
Fortnight for Freedom! (6/21-7/4)
Fortnight for Freedom
Group funded by George Soros poised to attack US Bishops for the “Fortnight for Freedom”
Archbishop [Lori]: 'Fortnight' about religious freedom, not politics
Religious Freedom and the Love of God
Bishops, That is a Pretty Nice Tax Exemption You Have There. Wouldn’t Want Anything Bad ...
Fortnight for Freedom
Baptist Leader Endorses Catholic Campaign

26 posted on 07/05/2012 4:24:44 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: G Larry
I drive 45 minutes to get to a priest who is not afraid to be honest to his parish.

More than once he has told us, I love you all dearly, but I will not go to hell for you.

27 posted on 07/05/2012 4:32:45 PM PDT by mware (By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West)
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To: GreyFriar

Thanks for the ping. I thought his homily was a rather mild and theological response to the present government attacks on Christianity in general and Catholicism in specific.


28 posted on 07/05/2012 5:40:11 PM PDT by zot
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To: from occupied ga
You seem to be confusing an opinion of a Pope with an actual infallible doctrine of the Church. When a Pope issues a teaching paper, or a Document, Catholics need to consider what he's teaching, but it doesn't mean he's teaching in an infallible manner, which would require our following as a full teaching. That requires not only the Pope, but the Bishops of the world agreeing on a teaching. There are really only a few of those.

If it's not an infallible teaching, Catholics of Good Will can disagree on it.

29 posted on 07/05/2012 6:36:11 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: marshmallow
“We live in a time that calls for sentinels and public witness. Every Christian in every era faces the same task. But you and I are responsible for this moment. Today. Now. We need to “speak out,” not only for religious liberty and the ideals of the nation we love, but for the sacredness of life and the dignity of the human person – in other words, for the truth of what it means to be made in the image and likeness of God."

"We need to be witnesses of that truth not only in word, but also in deed. In the end, we’re missionaries of Jesus Christ, or we’re nothing at all. And we can’t share with others what we don’t live faithfully and joyfully ourselves."

"When we leave this Mass today, we need to render unto Caesar those things that bear his image. But we need to render ourselves unto God — generously, zealously, holding nothing back. To the extent we let God transform us into his own image, we will – by the example of our lives – fulfill our duty as citizens of the United States, but much more importantly, as disciples of Jesus Christ.”

– Archbishop Charles Chaput, homily closing the Fortnight for Freedom, 4 July 2012.

30 posted on 07/05/2012 7:09:41 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: SuziQ
You seem to be confusing an opinion of a Pope with an actual infallible doctrine of the Church

You are deliberately misinterpreting what I said. What one hears in Catholic newspapers, from the pulpit, etc. is a constant barrage of socialism from the Catholic leadership of the US church.

Now YOU may think that what comes out of the church administration ie the USCCB and the parish priests isn't "official church teaching" and technically you MIGHT even be right, but what is it that Catholics hear day in and day out? The endless support for redistribution ala Marx. So when 300 catholics sitting in a mass hear a priest give a sermon on the right of the poor to material goods, health care, etc. how many of them think "this isn't the official stand of the church?" I would venture to say none. However wrong the endless flow of socialism that comes from the USCCB and down to the parishes and out into the congregations it is given the weight of official chuch teaching by virtue of the source. Something that every one of the posters on this thread are no doubt aware of.

Or to put it another way when the church leadership says "We need to provide goods to the poor," only a handful are going to say to themselves this isn't the official teaching of the church. Most will consider the source and say this is the voice of the church.

31 posted on 07/06/2012 3:57:07 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Natural Law

I appreciate unintentional irony as provided by your post.


32 posted on 07/06/2012 3:58:49 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
I'll bet you've never read QUOD APOSTOLICI MUNERIS or DIUTURNUM or LIBERTAS PRAESTANTISSIMUM, ad infinitum.

You would be absolutely right, and furthermore I never intend to, and more to the point neither do the vast majority of catholics. If I or anyone else has to dig into latin communications to get what you consider to be the official church stand, then it isn't going to happen. When the visible church hierarchy ie the usccb and the parish priests who dutifully regurgitate the same philosophy come out with their endless support of redistributionism, then to me and 99.99% of other catholics this is the official church stance regardless of what you might think from having read something that probably no more than a couple of thousand catholics in the usa have read. You remind me of the posters who insist that Virgil Goode should get the Republican nomination because he's a true constitutionalist. Technically you might be right, but the reality is that the navel gazers speak with the force of being the church leadership and people consider them to be the official voice of the church.

Actually only the obtuse would fail to recognize that the USCCB has the weight of being the church leadership in the US behind it, and only the obtuse would insist that their drivel has no effect on the bulk of catholics.

33 posted on 07/06/2012 4:14:21 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga
"When the visible church hierarchy ie the usccb and the parish priests who dutifully regurgitate the same philosophy come out with their endless support of redistributionism, then to me and 99.99% of other catholics this is the official church stance regardless of what you might think from having read something that probably no more than a couple of thousand catholics in the usa have read."

It is not socialism when the Catholic Church, or any church, reminds us that as Christians we have an duty to help the sick, the suffering, and the needy.

Peace be with you

34 posted on 07/06/2012 7:44:57 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law
It is not socialism when the Catholic Church, or any church, reminds us that as Christians we have an duty to help the sick, the suffering, and the needy

You need to actually read the whole "pastoral letter" and see if it's voluntary charity or forced redistribution being urged. SO when you want to make a RELEVANT comment get back to me or not. I detest sanctimony.

35 posted on 07/06/2012 8:25:21 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga
Or to put it another way when the church leadership says "We need to provide goods to the poor," only a handful are going to say to themselves this isn't the official teaching of the church. Most will consider the source and say this is the voice of the church.

Maybe it's just me, but if I hear those words in a sermon at Mass, I don't assume that it means "GOVERNMENT needs to provide goods to the poor". I assume it means that Jesus is calling ME, PERSONALLY, to help those who cannot help themselves, as all Christians are called to do.

36 posted on 07/06/2012 8:33:22 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ
, I don't assume that it means "GOVERNMENT needs to provide goods to the poor

Again you're taking it out of context. if I heard this OUT OF THE CONTEXT OF THIS THREAD I MIGHT agree with you, but read "Economic Justice for All" in the link in post 5 and tell me whether you think the church is urging charity or government redistribution.

37 posted on 07/06/2012 8:55:10 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga
"You need to actually read the whole "pastoral letter" and see if it's voluntary charity or forced redistribution being urged."

I have read it and it is not about forced anything. It could make the basis for an acceptable GOP platform. I would encourage you to read or reread it and concentrate on the following paragraphs:

"This document is not a technical blueprint for economic reform. Rather, it is an attempt to foster a serious moral analysis leading to a more just economy."

"Catholic social teaching does not require absolute equality in the distribution of income and wealth. Some degree of inequality is not only acceptable, but may be considered desirable for economic and social reasons, such as the need for incentives and the provision of greater rewards for greater risks."

"The first line of attack against poverty must be to build and sustain a healthy economy that provides employment opportunities at just wages for all adults who are able to work. Poverty is intimately linked to the issue of employment."

"Self-help efforts among the poor should be fostered by programs and policies in both the private and public sectors. We believe that an effective way to attack poverty is through programs that are small in scale, locally based, and oriented toward empowering the poor to become self-sufficient."

"Policies and programs at all levels should support the strength and stability of families, especially those adversely affected by the economy."

"Public assistance programs should be designed to assist recipients, wherever possible, to become self-sufficient through gainful employment."

"The United States cannot be the sole savior of the developing world, nor are Third World countries entirely innocent with respect to their own failures or totally helpless to achieve their own destinies. Many of these countries will need to initiate positive steps to promote and sustain development and economic growth—streamline bureaucracies, account for funds, plan reasonable programs, and take further steps toward empowering their people."

"We have outlined this moral vision as a guide to all who seek to be faithful to the Gospel in their daily economic decisions and as a challenge to transform the economic arrangements that shape our lives and our world. These arrangements embody and communicate social values, and therefore have moral significance both in themselves and in their effects. Christians, like all people, must be concerned about how the concrete outcomes of their economic activity serve human dignity; they must assess the extent to which the structures and practices of the economy support or undermine their moral vision.

"Others argue that the capitalist system is inherently inequitable and therefore contradictory to the demands of Christian morality, for it is based on acquisitiveness, competition, and self-centered individualism. They assert that capitalism is fatally flawed and must be replaced by a radically different system that abolishes private property, the profit motive, and the free market. Catholic social teaching has traditionally rejected these ideological extremes because they are likely to produce results contrary to human dignity and economic justice. Starting with the assumption that the economy has been created by human beings and can be changed by them, the Church works for improvement in a variety of economic and political contexts; but it is not the Church's role to create or promote a specific new economic system."

Peace be with you

38 posted on 07/06/2012 9:33:35 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law
it is not about forced anything. It could make the basis for an acceptable GOP platform
....
Self-help efforts among the poor should be fostered by programs and policies in both the private and public sectors.
...
Church works for improvement
in a variety of economic and political contexts

If you're working in a political context you're looking for a governmental solution. You live in a different universe. Either that or you are practicing selective blindness. I vote C both of the above.

39 posted on 07/06/2012 10:38:39 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga
"Catholic social teaching does not require absolute equality in the distribution of income and wealth. Some degree of inequality is not only acceptable, but may be considered desirable for economic and social reasons, such as the need for incentives and the provision of greater rewards for greater risks."

90+ pages and those two excerpts are what you are using to indict Catholic social teaching. If you believe that the government has no role in establishing or maintaining a social safety net or that Catholics have no right to expect a moral component to the policies of their government you are living in an alternate reality.

Peace be with you

40 posted on 07/06/2012 11:08:24 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: from occupied ga
Where are the official positions of the Catholic church if not in the USCCB?

Official Catholic teaching comes through (a) the Pope, (b) the bishops teaching in union with him; and (c) [secondarily] the documents promulgated under the Pope's authority by the Vatican offices which report to him.

National bishop's conferences, like the USCCB, aren't authoritative teaching organs. They can express opinions of course, but those opinions aren't binding on anyone's conscience. The "chain of command" in the Church goes directly from an individual bishop to the Pope, not through the national bishop's conference.

National bishop's conferences have some authority, but it's primarily over administrative and liturgical issues (e.g., making sure that the Mass is said the same way throughout the US), not doctrinal ones.

41 posted on 07/07/2012 7:23:53 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Natural Law
those two excerpts

No tootsie roll it isn't two excerpts it's the WHOLE DOCUMENT. If you can show me where catholic social teaching urges removing welfare or forcing people to work or face the consequences, then I'll change my mind. Again you are deliberately missing the point. Catholic "social teaching" is simply a somewhat watered down rehash of marxism along the lines of FDR's phoney baloney "Freedom from want.". No one is EVER free from want because you always want something. And yes I disagree with it - emphatically. EVERY SINGLE TIME IT HAS BEEN TRIED marxism/socialism ie redistirbutionism as urged by "Catholic social teaching" has resulted in increasing poverty and want. To paraphrase Dr. Thomas Sowell, every time you give something to a welfare recipient you reenforce the idea in his mind that he is indeed owed something and he will demand more.

42 posted on 07/09/2012 4:04:33 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Campion
Yes thank you for that repetition of dogma. NOW. Tell me where the average catholic is going to find this when the USCCB is pumping out it's mildly altered repetition of the democratic party's political platform, and the parish prists are taking up the chant.
43 posted on 07/09/2012 5:27:39 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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