Skip to comments.Israeli Parlaiment Member Rips Up New Testament
Posted on 07/21/2012 3:08:36 PM PDT by NYer
Remember a while back when some Florida pastor with a bad mustache and worse manners threatened and then ultimately burned a Koran? I am sure you do. It had plenty of two things, media coverage and body count.
There is another story that is likely to have neither of those things, mercifully. The Bible Society in Israel sent some copies of the New Testament to members of the Israeli Knesset with a note that said "We hope the book will help you and illuminate your way.” MK Michael Ben Ari, with better facial hair than the aforementioned Florida Pastor but equally poor manners, made a show of ripping it up in front of the press.Well then. Mr. Ben Ari suggests his act was some sort of reciprocity over the Inquisition, or something. Yeah, the Inquisition.
“This abominable book (the New Testament) galvanized the murder of millions of Jews during the Inquisition and during auto da fe instances,” Ben Ari said adding that “Sending the book to MK's is a provocation. There is no doubt that this book and all it represents belongs in the garbage can of history.”
Millions of Jews killed in the inquisition? No, not millions, not even close. Yet even one is too many. It seems that those who do not know their history are condemned to make it up.
No doubt, Jews have suffered at the hands of Christians over the centuries and that is certainly reprehensible. Actually, over the centuries almost every group has suffered at the hands of another, that is our lot. Who we see as the bad guy often depends upon who is playing the scary music on cue during the re-telling.
(Excerpt) Read more at ncregister.com ...
The Tridentine Rite Good Friday prayers called them “the perfidious Jews” for a reason.
Years ago I did a divorce for a woman who was married to a Muslim. They had only been married a short time and there were no kids and no property. He had some personal items and asked that she turn them over to me to give to him. He especially mentioned his Koran. His duffel bag showed up with a few dirty clothes, the Koran and what must have been the contents of a well used kitty litter box. I made sure I wasn’t there when he picked it up.
It’s just ink and paper, it is not God, it is not God’s Word destroyed.
What was the point?
I don’t recall the guy in Florida having bad manners.
We want them to be saved through the only Savior.
ping me when the Pope orders a fatwa.
And a yawn came up from the audience. Maybe he’ll tear up a Koran next.
Christians don’t hold the bible to be defiled by tearing it up, burning it, stomping on it or throwing it at liberals.
My Catholic brothers sometimes get in a tizzy when a communion host is abused, but for the most part, Christians just roll their eyes and realize the Word of God isn’t about a physical object.
It's all relative, isn't it? The lowest that Christians and Jews stoop is to tear up a book or spit at someone. Under Islam, however, heads and other limbs are chopped off.
OMG!! The Christians are going to be rioting, murdering Jews and burning their shops!!!
The book was just a prop. His comments should be the real story: This abominable book (the New Testament) galvanized the murder of millions of Jews during the Inquisition and during auto da fe instances,
That abominable book he is talking about IS the Word of God. That abominable book is the call for all humanity, and not just a chosen nation, to accept the full measure of God’s Grace. That’s why he says that it’s abominable.
The action strikes me as a expression of disrespect and contempt towards Christianity. Ben-Ari could have simply sent the book back to the missionary groups and said “Thanks, but I’m not interested”.
I'm looking forward to see him do that when someone sends him a copy of the quran to save him from the evil world.
Just like everyone should do when they receive a Koran in the mail.
Yep, I'm going to go and rip up the Talmud right now...oops, can't do that, otherwise I'll have to get another Bible...and money is short right now...
Funny thing is that when we act this way, we are disobeying the commandments in our Bibles, but when Muslims murder and torture they are OBEYING theirs.
The book was a prop, by the insensitive folks who sent it.
Interesting that the Catholic's invented this comfey chair to fix them for that.
For some strange reason, it offended the Jews. Must be perfidious or something getting offended by the "Holy Roman Church"!
Agreed. He needs to consider this now:
What religious group is largely trying to help Israel now? Christians
What religious group is trying to destroy them? Muslims.
If I have a foxhole buddy fighting beside me and with me, I am not going to insult and offend him, regardless of religious differences.
I am very sad you feel that ink and paper are the Word of God.
His Word is eternal, not temporal which is what ink and paper are.
Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.
>>I am very sad you feel that ink and paper are the Word of God.
I never said that. I said the opposite. I said that the book is a prop, but the MP was saying that the New Testament, and not THAT particular New Testament was an abominable book. I said that his comments should be the real story and not the fact that he tore up a book.
Please read the entire post before commenting in the future.
>>The book was a prop, by the insensitive folks who sent it.
Absolutely! The book is a prop. The sentiments behind sending it are real and not insensitive.
What consequences??? Since when to Christians do anything but walk away 99.9999% of the time? Oh, someone might yell that bad, bad man but get real Christianity is a choice and it is his choice not to listen.
Some Christian made a choice to send him that New Testament and he made a choice to make a show out of his rejection, he also made a choice to believe Christianity is still captive of the Catholic Church and its Inquisition...sorry but he looks like he has done enough to himself to make him look a sorry fool to Christians but hey they are not who votes for him anyway so who cares.
That abominable book is the call for all humanity, and not just a chosen nation, to accept the full measure of Gods Grace.
You referred to the book as being the Word of God.
In fact you said book he is talking about IS the Word of God
So I misunderstood your use of the phrase the book he is talking about is the Word of God, Sorry about that.
In-your-face fake evangelism is not sincere. It is ultimately hateful.
Chrstians can be wonderful people, but when are they going to realize that the Jews have not converted to chrstianity for two thousand years and that they never will??? Why does every single generation of chrstians think that they will be the ones to do the impossible? It's just like leftist utopianism . . . no matter that it's never worked and never will, they simply won't give it a rest.
Chrstians on this forum constantly ride mormons for writing additional "holy books" and insisting on their sanctity. To Jews the "new testament" is no different than the "book of mormon" is for conventional chrstians. Jews do not accept it. They will never accept it. To continue to send Jews copies of that book is beyond ridiculous. It's insulting.
Cut it out or quit ragging the mormons.
Is he sure the Old Testament’s not in there with it?
We never will "give it a rest" simply because we believe that Jesus IS the Messiah. We have an obligation to the WORLD to share this good news. The guy in the article showed no class by doing what he did and those who sent the Bibles were NOT trying to cram it down his or anyone's throat. I am positive Bibi Netanyahu would never do such a thing because he DOES have class, he realizes that millions of Christians love the nation of Israel and the Jewish people as well as strongly supporting and defending them. At least with Christians (the real kind) no one needs to fear being killed because they don't chose to accept Jesus. But I disagree with you that they never will, because one day they WILL:
A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.
The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness, declares the Lord. I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.
On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place. The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalems inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them. On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.
And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. (Zechariah 12:1-10)
Now, you have the freedom to accept this or reject it and I totally respect your rights, but I do not agree that the nation of Israel, the Jewish people, will forever reject Jesus Christ as the Messiah. They will one day and it may not be much longer. I will continue to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and that they will receive their true Messiah, Jesus the Christ. Shalom.
Okay...its sad! Is there a man alive that hasn’t partaken in nailing my Lord to the cross? NO, there isn’t.
We need to do a better job as Christians!
Cristian love, as you well know, is always conditional on one one surrendering to their will. It is foolish and dangerous for Jews and Israel to trust Christians or neopagan Western Civilization. “Esav hates Jacob.”
This wasn’t an attempt to convert anyone, this was just a provocation.
Are they expecting all jews will convert? No. But a few will. The Messianic Jewish movement shows this.
 And the king sent Judi that he should take the volume [Jeremiah's]: who bringing it out of the chamber of Elisama the scribe, read it in the hearing of the king, and of all the princes that stood about the king.  Now the king sat in the winter house, In the ninth month: and there was a hearth before him full of burning coals.  And when Judi had read three or four pages, he cut it with the penknife, and he cast it into the fire, that was upon the hearth, till all the volume was consumed with the fire that was on the hearth.  And the king and all his servants that heard all these words were not afraid, nor did they rend their garments.
(Prophecy of Jeremias, 36)
We must pray for the conversion of the Jews. Peace will be the consequence.
The purpose of the Holy Inquisition was not to convert the Jews but to drive the false converts out.
There would have been no false converts if the government hadn't pressured Jews into "converting" in the first place.
That's not exactly correct. 'False converts' were killed, ordinary Jews were forced out.
That excuses lying about your faith?
“Cristian love, as you well know, is always conditional on one one surrendering to their will.”
Doctrinally false. Practically false.
“It is foolish and dangerous for Jews and Israel to trust Christians or neopagan Western Civilization.”
Most Christians are friends of Israel and Jews.
“This wasnt an attempt to convert anyone, this was just a provocation.”
Yes, the Jews were expelled from Spain in 17c., but not by the Church. The issue here is the desire of the Church (including the likely Protestants who sent the New Testaments to that dolt) that the Jews should convert. This desire is natural to any religion, and so long as it is done by persuasion, — such as preaching or sending literature,— may not, in justice, be outlawed, let alone having stupid tantrums about it in what is supposed to be a lawmaking institution.
Part of that is true, part of it is not. Fundamentalist Protestants literally have no knowledge of chrstian history, since they insist "true chrstianity" disappeared long ago and was not revived until the Reformation (they were mormons before mormonism existed!). So far as they know, Judaism and chrstianity are simply two stages in the same religion and have always been friends. You have no idea what it did to me learn the truth.
Fundamentalist Protestants have no history of their own. They have no Constantine, no Roland, no El Cid, no Sir Galahad, no St. George. All they have is the TaNa"KH. That is "their" history. They almost have it memorized, yet they insist that all the ancient Israelites were actually "born again chrstians" just as they are!
Fundamentalist Protestants need and deserve to be told the truth. They are the only people in the world (aside from Orthodox Jews) who accept the historicity of the Hebrew Bible (albeit for the wrong reasons). They should not be chrstians at all. They should be Noachides. This is what I've been saying for almost 22 years now. Only the Sages of Israel can expound the Hebrew Bible authoritatively and in the non-Jewish world only Fundamentalist Protestants really accept the Hebrew Bible (in a way).
Let me tell you something about myself. Even when I was a Fundamentalist Protestant I wanted Jews to be Jews. I wanted Israel to be a Jewish State (not a bastardized "Jewish/democratic state"). I was a Fundamentalist Protestant when I wrote a letter to the late Rabbi Me'ir Kahana' (zt"l; Hy"d). And he actually wrote me a very short note back, handwritten (his handwriting was very hard to read; almost as bad as mine).
Do you honestly think I'm the only one like this? Fundamentalist Protestantism has people scattered throughout it just waiting to be told the truth. Why do you think they keep Jewish holidays and wear tallitot? I know . . . you think the only reason they do it is to trick Jews into becoming chrstians. And unfortunately, that is part of it. But it's not all of it. These people are starved for Jewish truth! They actually want to be Jewish. The chrstianity they're trying to "restore" is an ahistorical, "Jewish chrstianity," not the real thing. As stubborn, shortsighted, and naive as they can be, they are not evil. They are not "the enemy." Yes, they have to be watched carefully and they are not going to save Israel (only HaShem will do that). But they aren't evil. And for all the arguing I do with them on this forum I still say that.
You're right . . . `Esav cannot be trusted. But there's more to `Esav than Fundamentalist Protestants. Ancient liturgical chrstianity is also `Esav. Western paganism is `Esav. Western classical Greco-Romanism is `Esav. The modern university (so often associated with Jews), that bastard offspring of the ancient Greek academy and medieval Catholicism, is `Esav. The world political system and its secular morality that sits in judgment on HaShem (but which so many Jews depend on to protect them from big, bad Bible-thumpers) is `Esav. And enlightenment rationalism is also `Esav. Yet the Jewish reaction is too often to act as if the only enemy in existence were Judaeophilic Fundamentalist Protestants and to invoke Voltaire (and anti-Semite), Thomas Jefferson, the First Amendment, and the "enlightenment" as if it were Mashiach sent from Heaven in order to usher in the Golden Age. In fact, most non-Jews associate Jews not with Judaism, but with secularism. It's sad and it's ugly but it's true; and unfortunately, much of the secularization of culture that has taken place since the Sho'ah (and even before) has been done in the name of atoning for and preventing future Jewish suffering. Yet it is not the Jewish mission to secularize the world but to saturate it with holiness. And no amount of experience of being on the receiving end of "theocracy" can change that mission.
I don't suppose anything I've written here makes the slightest bit of sense to you?
This wasnt an attempt to convert anyone, this was just a provocation.
I agree with this 100%. This was childish, spiteful, and not intended to accomplish anything. And any conventional chrstian who attacks mormonism who doesn't see this is a hypocrite.
::Sigh:: Looks like even on FR I remain the only one of my kind.