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Israeli Parlaiment Member Rips Up New Testament
NC Register ^ | July 19, 2012 | Patrick Archbold

Posted on 07/21/2012 3:08:36 PM PDT by NYer

Remember a while back when some Florida pastor with a bad mustache and worse manners threatened and then ultimately burned a Koran? I am sure you do. It had plenty of two things, media coverage and body count.

There is another story that is likely to have neither of those things, mercifully. The Bible Society in Israel sent some copies of the New Testament to members of the Israeli Knesset with a note that said "We hope the book will help you and illuminate your way.” MK Michael Ben Ari, with better facial hair than the aforementioned Florida Pastor but equally poor manners, made a show of ripping it up in front of the press.Well then. Mr. Ben Ari suggests his act was some sort of reciprocity over the Inquisition, or something.  Yeah, the Inquisition.

“This abominable book (the New Testament) galvanized the murder of millions of Jews during the Inquisition and during auto da fe instances,” Ben Ari said adding that “Sending the book to MK's is a provocation. There is no doubt that this book and all it represents belongs in the garbage can of history.”

Millions of Jews killed in the inquisition? No, not millions, not even close. Yet even one is too many. It seems that those who do not know their history are condemned to make it up.

No doubt, Jews have suffered at the hands of Christians over the centuries and that is certainly reprehensible. Actually, over the centuries almost every group has suffered at the hands of another, that is our lot. Who we see as the bad guy often depends upon who is playing the scary music on cue during the re-telling.

(Excerpt) Read more at ncregister.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Judaism; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: bible; christian; israel; knesset; nt
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 07/21/2012 3:08:42 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Mr. Ben Ari ripping up the New Testament.
2 posted on 07/21/2012 3:10:25 PM PDT by NYer (Without justice, what else is the State but a great band of robbers? - St. Augustine)
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To: NYer

The Tridentine Rite Good Friday prayers called them “the perfidious Jews” for a reason.


3 posted on 07/21/2012 3:15:09 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini--nevertheless, Vote Santorum!)
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To: NYer

Years ago I did a divorce for a woman who was married to a Muslim. They had only been married a short time and there were no kids and no property. He had some personal items and asked that she turn them over to me to give to him. He especially mentioned his Koran. His duffel bag showed up with a few dirty clothes, the Koran and what must have been the contents of a well used kitty litter box. I made sure I wasn’t there when he picked it up.


4 posted on 07/21/2012 3:16:20 PM PDT by Mercat (Necessity is the argument of tyrants. John Milton)
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To: NYer
As a Christian who lived in Israel for about 10 years, I can think of pretty much nothing more offensive than this move on the Israeli Knesset. It happens to be illegal to prostlize in Israel. The Kenesset has moved to block some actions by Jewish groups against Christians before. Real stupid move that will set back Christian relations decades. There will be very bad consequences for this.
5 posted on 07/21/2012 3:16:20 PM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: NYer

And what?
It’s just ink and paper, it is not God, it is not God’s Word destroyed.
What was the point?


6 posted on 07/21/2012 3:17:37 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: NYer
It must have taken a long time to kill "millions" using the dreaded 'Comfy Chair' (and the 'Soft Cushions'!)


7 posted on 07/21/2012 3:17:46 PM PDT by montag813
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To: NYer

I don’t recall the guy in Florida having bad manners.


8 posted on 07/21/2012 3:24:51 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: lightman
The softer version of the petition (as adapted for the Lutheran Book of Worship in 1978) prays that the Jewish people "might arrive with us at the fulness of salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We want them to be saved through the only Savior.

9 posted on 07/21/2012 3:27:05 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini--nevertheless, Vote Santorum!)
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To: NYer

ping me when the Pope orders a fatwa.


10 posted on 07/21/2012 3:27:19 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: NYer

And a yawn came up from the audience. Maybe he’ll tear up a Koran next.


11 posted on 07/21/2012 3:30:17 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: NYer

Christians don’t hold the bible to be defiled by tearing it up, burning it, stomping on it or throwing it at liberals.

My Catholic brothers sometimes get in a tizzy when a communion host is abused, but for the most part, Christians just roll their eyes and realize the Word of God isn’t about a physical object.


12 posted on 07/21/2012 3:33:06 PM PDT by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: American in Israel
Real stupid move that will set back Christian relations decades. There will be very bad consequences for this.

It's all relative, isn't it? The lowest that Christians and Jews stoop is to tear up a book or spit at someone. Under Islam, however, heads and other limbs are chopped off.

13 posted on 07/21/2012 3:34:52 PM PDT by Kennard
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To: NYer

Sorry?


14 posted on 07/21/2012 3:35:29 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: NYer

OMG!! The Christians are going to be rioting, murdering Jews and burning their shops!!!

Oh wait...


15 posted on 07/21/2012 3:36:42 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: svcw

The book was just a prop. His comments should be the real story: “This abominable book (the New Testament) galvanized the murder of millions of Jews during the Inquisition and during auto da fe instances,”

That abominable book he is talking about IS the Word of God. That abominable book is the call for all humanity, and not just a chosen nation, to accept the full measure of God’s Grace. That’s why he says that it’s abominable.


16 posted on 07/21/2012 3:37:25 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: svcw

“It’s just ink and paper ... it is not God’s Word destroyed.”

Exactly. Ho-hum.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God. He shall not be destroyed.

Replacement theologians have killed for ‘jesus’, in grave error.

And the New Testament contains none of that. None. Nada. Zilch. We do not go forth and kill for Jesus.

Hopefully, someday, this man might read a New Testament and learn that.

If he survives to the Great Tribulation, he will prize a New Testament as if it were more valuable than gold or platinum.


17 posted on 07/21/2012 3:50:56 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: svcw

The action strikes me as a expression of disrespect and contempt towards Christianity. Ben-Ari could have simply sent the book back to the missionary groups and said “Thanks, but I’m not interested”.


18 posted on 07/21/2012 4:09:20 PM PDT by Jacob Kell
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To: NYer
Ben-Ari could have simply sent the book back to the missionary groups and said “Thanks, but I’m not interested”.

I'm looking forward to see him do that when someone sends him a copy of the quran to save him from the evil world.

19 posted on 07/21/2012 4:18:22 PM PDT by publius911 (Formerly Publius 6961, formerly jennsdad)
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To: Jacob Kell
...could have simply sent the book back to the missionary groups and said “Thanks, but I’m not interested”

Just like everyone should do when they receive a Koran in the mail.

20 posted on 07/21/2012 4:19:24 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: NYer
Good afternoon. I hope you are well.

Yep, I'm going to go and rip up the Talmud right now...oops, can't do that, otherwise I'll have to get another Bible...and money is short right now...

5.56mm

21 posted on 07/21/2012 4:25:03 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: onedoug

Ping


22 posted on 07/21/2012 4:26:29 PM PDT by windcliff
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To: Kennard
The lowest that Christians and Jews stoop is to tear up a book or spit at someone. Under Islam, however, heads and other limbs are chopped off.

Funny thing is that when we act this way, we are disobeying the commandments in our Bibles, but when Muslims murder and torture they are OBEYING theirs.

Strange world

23 posted on 07/21/2012 4:29:05 PM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: Bryanw92

The book was a prop, by the insensitive folks who sent it.


24 posted on 07/21/2012 4:30:12 PM PDT by Tzfat
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To: M Kehoe

Good luck with that.
25 posted on 07/21/2012 4:36:52 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: lightman
...Good Friday prayers called them “the perfidious Jews”...

Interesting that the Catholic's invented this comfey chair to fix them for that.

For some strange reason, it offended the Jews. Must be perfidious or something getting offended by the "Holy Roman Church"!

26 posted on 07/21/2012 4:47:52 PM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: American in Israel
There will be very bad consequences for this.

Like what?

27 posted on 07/21/2012 4:50:15 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: Jacob Kell

Agreed. He needs to consider this now:

What religious group is largely trying to help Israel now? Christians

What religious group is trying to destroy them? Muslims.

If I have a foxhole buddy fighting beside me and with me, I am not going to insult and offend him, regardless of religious differences.


28 posted on 07/21/2012 5:19:19 PM PDT by RatRipper (Obama, YOU LIE!!! . . .again and again and again and again, ad infinitum. . . .)
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To: Bryanw92

I am very sad you feel that ink and paper are the Word of God.
His Word is eternal, not temporal which is what ink and paper are.
Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.


29 posted on 07/21/2012 5:31:56 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

>>I am very sad you feel that ink and paper are the Word of God.

I never said that. I said the opposite. I said that the book is a prop, but the MP was saying that the New Testament, and not THAT particular New Testament was an abominable book. I said that his comments should be the real story and not the fact that he tore up a book.

Please read the entire post before commenting in the future.


30 posted on 07/21/2012 7:10:16 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Tzfat

>>The book was a prop, by the insensitive folks who sent it.

Absolutely! The book is a prop. The sentiments behind sending it are real and not insensitive.


31 posted on 07/21/2012 7:18:43 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: American in Israel
There will be very bad consequences for this.

What consequences??? Since when to Christians do anything but walk away 99.9999% of the time? Oh, someone might yell that bad, bad man but get real Christianity is a choice and it is his choice not to listen.

Some Christian made a choice to send him that New Testament and he made a choice to make a show out of his rejection, he also made a choice to believe Christianity is still captive of the Catholic Church and its Inquisition...sorry but he looks like he has done enough to himself to make him look a sorry fool to Christians but hey they are not who votes for him anyway so who cares.

32 posted on 07/21/2012 7:37:33 PM PDT by Lady Heron
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To: montag813
I just recognized the cardinal on the right as an alumni of Aviate Maria University.
33 posted on 07/21/2012 7:38:46 PM PDT by Erasmus (Zwischen des Teufels und des tiefen, blauen Meers)
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To: Bryanw92
That abominable book he is talking about IS the Word of God.

That abominable book is the call for all humanity, and not just a chosen nation, to accept the full measure of God’s Grace.

You referred to the book as being the Word of God.

In fact you said book he is talking about IS the Word of God

So I misunderstood your use of the phrase the book he is talking about is the Word of God, Sorry about that.

34 posted on 07/21/2012 7:45:39 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Bryanw92

In-your-face fake evangelism is not sincere. It is ultimately hateful.


35 posted on 07/21/2012 8:48:40 PM PDT by Tzfat
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To: NYer
There is another story that is likely to have neither of those things, mercifully. The Bible Society in Israel sent some copies of the New Testament to members of the Israeli Knesset with a note that said "We hope the book will help you and illuminate your way.”

Chrstians can be wonderful people, but when are they going to realize that the Jews have not converted to chrstianity for two thousand years and that they never will??? Why does every single generation of chrstians think that they will be the ones to do the impossible? It's just like leftist utopianism . . . no matter that it's never worked and never will, they simply won't give it a rest.

Chrstians on this forum constantly ride mormons for writing additional "holy books" and insisting on their sanctity. To Jews the "new testament" is no different than the "book of mormon" is for conventional chrstians. Jews do not accept it. They will never accept it. To continue to send Jews copies of that book is beyond ridiculous. It's insulting.

Cut it out or quit ragging the mormons.

36 posted on 07/21/2012 10:05:38 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: windcliff

Is he sure the Old Testament’s not in there with it?


37 posted on 07/21/2012 10:51:22 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Chrstians can be wonderful people, but when are they going to realize that the Jews have not converted to chrstianity for two thousand years and that they never will??? Why does every single generation of chrstians think that they will be the ones to do the impossible? It's just like leftist utopianism . . . no matter that it's never worked and never will, they simply won't give it a rest.

We never will "give it a rest" simply because we believe that Jesus IS the Messiah. We have an obligation to the WORLD to share this good news. The guy in the article showed no class by doing what he did and those who sent the Bibles were NOT trying to cram it down his or anyone's throat. I am positive Bibi Netanyahu would never do such a thing because he DOES have class, he realizes that millions of Christians love the nation of Israel and the Jewish people as well as strongly supporting and defending them. At least with Christians (the real kind) no one needs to fear being killed because they don't chose to accept Jesus. But I disagree with you that they never will, because one day they WILL:

A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.

The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’

“On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place. “The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them. On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.

And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. (Zechariah 12:1-10)

Now, you have the freedom to accept this or reject it and I totally respect your rights, but I do not agree that the nation of Israel, the Jewish people, will forever reject Jesus Christ as the Messiah. They will one day and it may not be much longer. I will continue to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and that they will receive their true Messiah, Jesus the Christ. Shalom.

38 posted on 07/21/2012 11:59:20 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: NYer

Okay...its sad! Is there a man alive that hasn’t partaken in nailing my Lord to the cross? NO, there isn’t.
We need to do a better job as Christians!


39 posted on 07/22/2012 12:21:40 AM PDT by AnneM62
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Cristian love, as you well know, is always conditional on one one surrendering to their will. It is foolish and dangerous for Jews and Israel to trust Christians or neopagan Western Civilization. “Esav hates Jacob.”

This wasn’t an attempt to convert anyone, this was just a provocation.


40 posted on 07/22/2012 9:17:23 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Chrstians can be wonderful people, but when are they going to realize that the Jews have not converted to chrstianity for two thousand years and that they never will???

Are they expecting all jews will convert? No. But a few will. The Messianic Jewish movement shows this.

41 posted on 07/22/2012 9:32:23 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (this space for rent)
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To: NYer
To shred and destroy the prophecy they don't like is a longstanding habit of the Jewish leaders:
[21] And the king sent Judi that he should take the volume [Jeremiah's]: who bringing it out of the chamber of Elisama the scribe, read it in the hearing of the king, and of all the princes that stood about the king. [22] Now the king sat in the winter house, In the ninth month: and there was a hearth before him full of burning coals. [23] And when Judi had read three or four pages, he cut it with the penknife, and he cast it into the fire, that was upon the hearth, till all the volume was consumed with the fire that was on the hearth. [24] And the king and all his servants that heard all these words were not afraid, nor did they rend their garments.

(Prophecy of Jeremias, 36)


42 posted on 07/22/2012 9:36:32 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: boatbums
I will continue to pray for the peace of Jerusalem

We must pray for the conversion of the Jews. Peace will be the consequence.

43 posted on 07/22/2012 9:39:48 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: American in Israel

The purpose of the Holy Inquisition was not to convert the Jews but to drive the false converts out.


44 posted on 07/22/2012 9:51:05 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
The purpose of the Holy Inquisition was not to convert the Jews but to drive the false converts out.

There would have been no false converts if the government hadn't pressured Jews into "converting" in the first place.

45 posted on 07/22/2012 10:34:20 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: annalex
...to drive the false converts out.

That's not exactly correct. 'False converts' were killed, ordinary Jews were forced out.

46 posted on 07/22/2012 10:36:16 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Zionist Conspirator

That excuses lying about your faith?


47 posted on 07/22/2012 10:40:49 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: jjotto

“Cristian love, as you well know, is always conditional on one one surrendering to their will.”

Doctrinally false. Practically false.

“It is foolish and dangerous for Jews and Israel to trust Christians or neopagan Western Civilization.”

Most Christians are friends of Israel and Jews.

“This wasn’t an attempt to convert anyone, this was just a provocation.”

I agree.


48 posted on 07/22/2012 10:45:32 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Conservative Economic and National Security Commentary: econus.blogspot.com)
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To: jjotto

Yes, the Jews were expelled from Spain in 17c., but not by the Church. The issue here is the desire of the Church (including the likely Protestants who sent the New Testaments to that dolt) that the Jews should convert. This desire is natural to any religion, and so long as it is done by persuasion, — such as preaching or sending literature,— may not, in justice, be outlawed, let alone having stupid tantrums about it in what is supposed to be a lawmaking institution.


49 posted on 07/22/2012 10:48:34 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: jjotto
Cristian love, as you well know, is always conditional on one one surrendering to their will. It is foolish and dangerous for Jews and Israel to trust Christians or neopagan Western Civilization. “Esav hates Jacob.”

Part of that is true, part of it is not. Fundamentalist Protestants literally have no knowledge of chrstian history, since they insist "true chrstianity" disappeared long ago and was not revived until the Reformation (they were mormons before mormonism existed!). So far as they know, Judaism and chrstianity are simply two stages in the same religion and have always been friends. You have no idea what it did to me learn the truth.

Fundamentalist Protestants have no history of their own. They have no Constantine, no Roland, no El Cid, no Sir Galahad, no St. George. All they have is the TaNa"KH. That is "their" history. They almost have it memorized, yet they insist that all the ancient Israelites were actually "born again chrstians" just as they are!

Fundamentalist Protestants need and deserve to be told the truth. They are the only people in the world (aside from Orthodox Jews) who accept the historicity of the Hebrew Bible (albeit for the wrong reasons). They should not be chrstians at all. They should be Noachides. This is what I've been saying for almost 22 years now. Only the Sages of Israel can expound the Hebrew Bible authoritatively and in the non-Jewish world only Fundamentalist Protestants really accept the Hebrew Bible (in a way).

Let me tell you something about myself. Even when I was a Fundamentalist Protestant I wanted Jews to be Jews. I wanted Israel to be a Jewish State (not a bastardized "Jewish/democratic state"). I was a Fundamentalist Protestant when I wrote a letter to the late Rabbi Me'ir Kahana' (zt"l; Hy"d). And he actually wrote me a very short note back, handwritten (his handwriting was very hard to read; almost as bad as mine).

Do you honestly think I'm the only one like this? Fundamentalist Protestantism has people scattered throughout it just waiting to be told the truth. Why do you think they keep Jewish holidays and wear tallitot? I know . . . you think the only reason they do it is to trick Jews into becoming chrstians. And unfortunately, that is part of it. But it's not all of it. These people are starved for Jewish truth! They actually want to be Jewish. The chrstianity they're trying to "restore" is an ahistorical, "Jewish chrstianity," not the real thing. As stubborn, shortsighted, and naive as they can be, they are not evil. They are not "the enemy." Yes, they have to be watched carefully and they are not going to save Israel (only HaShem will do that). But they aren't evil. And for all the arguing I do with them on this forum I still say that.

You're right . . . `Esav cannot be trusted. But there's more to `Esav than Fundamentalist Protestants. Ancient liturgical chrstianity is also `Esav. Western paganism is `Esav. Western classical Greco-Romanism is `Esav. The modern university (so often associated with Jews), that bastard offspring of the ancient Greek academy and medieval Catholicism, is `Esav. The world political system and its secular morality that sits in judgment on HaShem (but which so many Jews depend on to protect them from big, bad Bible-thumpers) is `Esav. And enlightenment rationalism is also `Esav. Yet the Jewish reaction is too often to act as if the only enemy in existence were Judaeophilic Fundamentalist Protestants and to invoke Voltaire (and anti-Semite), Thomas Jefferson, the First Amendment, and the "enlightenment" as if it were Mashiach sent from Heaven in order to usher in the Golden Age. In fact, most non-Jews associate Jews not with Judaism, but with secularism. It's sad and it's ugly but it's true; and unfortunately, much of the secularization of culture that has taken place since the Sho'ah (and even before) has been done in the name of atoning for and preventing future Jewish suffering. Yet it is not the Jewish mission to secularize the world but to saturate it with holiness. And no amount of experience of being on the receiving end of "theocracy" can change that mission.

I don't suppose anything I've written here makes the slightest bit of sense to you?

This wasn’t an attempt to convert anyone, this was just a provocation.

I agree with this 100%. This was childish, spiteful, and not intended to accomplish anything. And any conventional chrstian who attacks mormonism who doesn't see this is a hypocrite.

::Sigh:: Looks like even on FR I remain the only one of my kind.

50 posted on 07/22/2012 11:00:43 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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