Posted on 07/22/2012 12:14:15 PM PDT by wmfights
It is my habit to respond to all those referenced.
So what was his point in creating material creatures with a plan of promoting them to Heaven? If that was indeed his intention.
That is a good question. It's my personal belief that it isn't that man will be "promoted" into Heaven. Rather that he will be welcomed back to Eden from where he was cast out. Eden is just a small extension of Heaven.
I can understand how you arrive at such a conclusion. This is Platonism's influence. It isn't Jewish thought-at least not the Jews of the Old Testament.
And you know this how? Because you dogmatically assert that the "Jews of the Old Testament" were really ancient Southern Baptists who went around singing hymns and passing out gospel tracts?
And the created material universe just what . . . disappears, having fulfilled its purpose?
Also, if nobody died and everybody obeyed the command to be fruitful and multiply, where you gonna put ‘em?
Lol! I can see your point. But I've heard that the Qodesh HaQodashim (Holy of Holies) was sort of like the TARDIS, bigger on the inside than the outside. At least that's what I understood one person to say.
It is simple logic. Every misunderstanding of God and every erroneous doctrinal belief that seems to spring up, occurs from this one idea-that man has "free will". You stated that we are capable of obeying the commandments of God. I fully agree with your conclusion if, in fact, man had the free will. The question then is, if a person is freely capable of choosing right or wrong, then WHY don't they choose to obey God's commands. If, as you say, "Every commandment we obey unleashes unseen spiritual forces in the world" then why unleash anything if you can freely choose what to obey and not obey?
And, yes. Half the Southern Baptists don't understand this simple issue.
I’m not sure I’m exactly following the argument, but I’ll say this:
Everyone has a number of jobs to do in ‘redeeming sparks’. For one it may be resisting the urge to break the window of a jewelry store, for another it may be avoiding a bit of food that might not be kosher.
In each case, the correct choice makes one a better person and the world a better place. That we don’t understand how this can be is irrelevant.
Choosing incorrectly is a setback for us and for the world.
I'll ask around and get back to you.
24 “O my God,” I say, “take me not hence in the midst of my days, thou whose years endure throughout all generations!”
25 Of old thou didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
26 They will perish, but thou dost endure; they will all wear out like a garment. Thou changest them like raiment, and they pass away;
27 but thou art the same, and thy years have no end.
28 The children of thy servants shall dwell secure; their posterity shall be established before thee.
(RSV)
A person can't "choose incorrectly" if they have "free will". They can only choose what God wants or what He doesn't want. They are, after all, "free" to make choices. If they can resist the urge to break a window or avoid food, then surely they should be able to resist everything. Therein lies the problem.
This, of course, is utter nonsense. Man is by nature sinful. All one has to do is look into their own heart. One may resist breaking a window but they certainly won't tell Aunt Gertrude what they actually think of her latest hat. An honest examination of one's soul makes it painfully evident that we are by nature sinful creatures incapable of doing the things of God.
Thank you for sharing.
But not entirely contrary, which explains why Plato's thoughts remain attractive to Christians. Overall, Plato's writings are a beneficial antidote to the contemporary materialism and sophistic spirit of the age. Plato and Aristotle were not atheist. A real distinction in Christianity is the historical plan of redemption and new creation. But even though Socrates' understanding of history appears empty in comparison, he was adamant that there would be a final reckoning and accountability for human actions after death. So the body/soul dualism so enmeshed in the New Testament makes Plato especially attractive reading for Christians. Like Plato, Christianity admits such a body/soul dualism, considering the body as dead and the soul alive to God. St. Paul, especially, emphasizes the redemption of the body, something not found in Plato, and definitely not in Plotinus.
There are so many other ideas in Plato's writing that are so supportive of Christian thought that it has led some to suggest that the source for these ideas are Judaic. Compare some of the passages in the Timaeus and Socrates' defense in the Apology.
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