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Both, Exodus and Our Lady of LaSalette (1846) warn, keep God's Day a day of worship and rest
http://www.spiritdaily.com/ ^ | July 20, 2012 | Michael Brown

Posted on 07/22/2012 2:20:02 PM PDT by stpio

As usual, none of my five siblings or their families go to Holy Mass on Sunday. A Commandment is a Commandment, in the New Covenant assembling to worship God on Sunday is divine law. Does anyone else have family who skip Church on Sunday? Our nation is going further and further away from God. Are we seeing the beginning of God's just judgment?

~ ~ ~

* Hidden in Scripture, message from Mary: the dire effect of violating Sabbath *

July 20, 2012

We all know the requirement to attend Mass every weekend. Few realize, however, how seriously Heaven takes this.

That seriousness is witnessed in the Old Testament.

Look at Exodus 32, the Lord saying to Moses:

"You must also tell the Israelites: Take care to keep my Sabbaths, for that is to be the token between you and Me through the generations, to show that it is I, the Lord, Who make you holy. Therefore, you must keep the Sabbath as something sacred. Whoever desecrates it shall be put to death."

Tough stuff.

And granted, Christ came with a new covenant (one that in many ways was gentler).

There were not the harsh judgments we find in many parts of the Old.

But the Bible is the Bible and that the Sabbath is important seemed in ample evidence also when the Virgin Mary appeared in 1846 at LaSalette, France, and specifically warned that there was a chastisement coming because people were violating the law of weekly worship.

"I gave you six days to work, I kept the seventh for myself, and no one wishes to grant it to me," said Mary in September of 1846 to two visionaries.

"This is what weighs down the arm of my Son.

"If the harvest is spoiled, it is only because of the rest of you. I made you see this last year with the potatoes; you took little account of this. It was quite the opposite when you found bad potatoes; you swore oaths, and you included the Name of my Son. They will continue to go bad; at Christmas there will be none left. A great famine will come. Before the famine comes, children under the age of seven will begin to tremble and will die in the arms of those who hold them."

A bit like Exodus?

The Blessed Mother warned that the potatoes would rot and there would be a famine and she said they had been given a warning the previous years when they found some bad potatoes.

Now, they would all be bad, or far more.

And, incredibly: it was the onset of what became known in Ireland and this part of France as well as elsewhere as the Great Potato Famine.

Where a third of potatoes were "bad" the year before in Ireland (afflicted with blight), by the end of 1846 -- the year of the apparition -- three-quarters were thusly ruined.

And while few died in 1846, huge numbers were to succumb during the winter of 1847-1848, when more than a million died in Ireland alone, their bodies weakened and susceptible to diseases like cholera, which, true to Mary's words (which were approved by the Church) caused the young to tremble.

There is a pattern. We are warned. This comes through small "disasters." We heed the warning or are warned again -- this time with more serious events. And so forth.

What is the warning now? Should we note the droughts in Australia and North America? When we look at how weather events have been intensifying we see the same principle -- including with droughts that, as happened with blight, threaten widespread crop shortages. Says 2 Chronicles 36: "Until the land has retrieved its lost Sabbaths, during all the time it lies waste it shall have rest while seventy years are fulfilled."

Right now, corn farmers in the Midwest are praying (as we should also) for rain.

Serious, indeed, especially when we look at our own time and the way the Sabbath is treated now. In the U.S., weekly Mass attendance is at about 22 percent, according to one study.

Is it as bad as back in 1846, in rural France, or worse -- even far worse -- when it comes to disrespect for the Lord?


TOPICS: Apologetics; History; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: sabbath; sundayworship
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1 posted on 07/22/2012 2:20:12 PM PDT by stpio
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To: stpio

Also, don’t eat pork.

;-)


2 posted on 07/22/2012 2:33:18 PM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: stpio
I don't need none of anyone or thing to help me decide what common sense dictates ...

Take A Break One Day A Week !

3 posted on 07/22/2012 2:36:13 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: cuban leaf

I shutter to think what they will do after Reggie Bush and Cam Newton. Ouch!! and then they had 81 violations at Miami— What happened there? Oohh I forgot the 8 violations at Ohio State. Boy, the Ncaa was tough there too. I just shutter at the wrath of this paper tiger where there was child rape and everyone knew about it at Ped State. Maybe race is a factor?


4 posted on 07/22/2012 2:41:43 PM PDT by marygonzo
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To: marygonzo

Just wait until you shudder ... on the correct thread, too !!!


5 posted on 07/22/2012 2:44:58 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: stpio

I’m not aware of any commandment to attend church. All the bible says is to keep holy the sabbath day. Where does the bible say we are to collect in a building with many others while being lead by clergy?

I’m not saying attending church is a bad thing. I’m asking the question, for those who worship God at home on their own, where in the bible are we directed to collect in a building with others and lead in prayer and worship by clergy?

I must have missed that passage in Matthew or John.


6 posted on 07/22/2012 2:48:26 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (REPEAL OBAMACARE. Nothing else matters.)
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To: marygonzo

Oh sorry. Thanks


7 posted on 07/22/2012 2:49:36 PM PDT by marygonzo
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
All the bible says is to keep holy the sabbath day.

Better read more than just the Gospels of Matthew and John.

"Not forsaking our assembly, as some are accustomed; but comforting one another, and so much the more as you see the day approaching." Hebrews 10:25

8 posted on 07/22/2012 3:13:01 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: stpio

Or the Lord’s Day — the day he rose from the dead — Sunday.


9 posted on 07/22/2012 3:16:23 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: stpio
Early Church Fathers - Worship on Sabbath or Sunday

10 posted on 07/22/2012 3:19:09 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: marygonzo

A shutter goes on a window. Your sentence dowsn’t make sense.


11 posted on 07/22/2012 3:20:00 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: stpio

Exactly which day of the week is “the Sabbath” - as described in the Bible.


12 posted on 07/22/2012 3:20:10 PM PDT by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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To: DennisR

The apostles observed the Sabbath, as did Christ.

In Acts we read about home churches. The apostles went to the synagogue on the Sabbath and then met in homes for the Eucharist and the remembrance of Christ’s rising from the dead.


13 posted on 07/22/2012 3:41:22 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: stpio
Both, Exodus and Our Lady of LaSalette (1846) warn, keep God's Day a day of worship and rest
Catholic Word of the Day - LA SALETTE
OUR LADY OF LA SALETTE [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Official Feast of the Lady of LaSalette Sept. 19( along with St. Januarius)

14 posted on 07/22/2012 4:20:10 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
I must have missed that passage in Matthew or John.

Well there ya go again...Puttin' the bible above the apparitions of the god(ess)

"I gave you six days to work, I kept the seventh for myself, and no one wishes to grant it to me," said Mary in September of 1846 to two visionaries.

According to the 'Bible', it was God who gave us the Commandments...Little did we know...

15 posted on 07/22/2012 4:22:08 PM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free

“Where does the bible say we are to collect in a building with many others while being lead by clergy?”

~ ~ ~

I know you don’t mean it is bad to attend Church. We follow
Our Lord’s example, He kept the Sabbath. He went to worship
God in the Temple...in community. Judaism, the roots of
the faith were liturgical.

In the New Covenant, the Sabbath is changed to the Lord’s
Day in honor of Our Lord’s resurrection. Worshiping God
on Sunday is not a private thing, say a “home church.”
Unless, I am not sure, sadly, it’s another split, somebody starting up another Protestant community. To me, it’s an
excuse not to go to Church. There are already plenty of
Protestant churches everywhere. Church comes from the
word “assembly.”

Sharing the verse about Our Lord:

Luke 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he was brought up: and he went into the synagogue, according to his custom, on the sabbath day; and he rose up to read.


16 posted on 07/22/2012 4:55:09 PM PDT by stpio
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To: Salvation

Thank you, I give you a hug for all the links concerning Our Lady of La Salette. Isn’t it something Our Lord’s mother is the same today as in 1846? She never gives up trying, it’s
true.

Ask Jesus’ mother for help, spiritual and temporal. All in God’s Will.


17 posted on 07/22/2012 5:00:44 PM PDT by stpio
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To: Salvation; DennisR
In Acts we read no such thing about home ministries or eucharists. Nearly every instance of gathering to hear the Word of God is referred to as being held in a synagogue with the exceptions of a few times it was held on a hillside. It was and still is the custom to gather for oneg (potluck) after worship services as the Sabbath ends at sundown.

That is what the Apostles were doing, gathering for a daily meal and continuing in discussion/midrash of that weeks teaching of Moses. (Acts 15:21)

God's Sabbath is from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown and since Messiah was put in the grave prior to sundown on Wed because Thurs was a High Holy Sabbath of Unleavened Bread and Scripture tells us that he raised “ON” the 3rd day, our Messiah raised on the Sabbath which is his day and why he is called the Master of the Sabbath. This is corroborated by Scripture as Mary, the mother of Messiah, kept the Sabbath Feast of Unleavened Bread, the next day she bought spices, then observed the weekly Sabbath and it was that evening after the weekly Sabbath had ended that they went on their way to the tomb. According to God's calendar, the new day dawns as sunset, not sunrise. Scripture says it was “dawning” towards the 1st of the week when they headed out to the tomb, which means the 1st day of the week had not actually come to be yet. It was still Saturday evening.

Isaiah 56 & 66 give the gentiles who wish to come into relationship with God specific instructions as to the Sabbath and not to profane it by doing as we please as well as guarding the commandments of God. In Mt 24, Messiah said to pray that our flight is not on the Sabbath. Now why would he say that if he did away with his Sabbath?

Also in other areas of Scripture where it says “first day of the week”, the 1st thing we must take note of is that the word “day” is in italics, which means it is an addition that is not found in any of the original texts. Second, the word week is “sabbaton” and if one takes the time to study the context, ALL of instances are found during the time after the weekly Sabbath immediately following Passover. This means the time is during the counting of the 7 Sabbaths leading up to Shavuot/Pentecost. Thus the proper rendering of these texts actually reads “one of the Sabbaths”.

Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi (teacher) and to say that his death ushered in change instead of the beginning of the restoration of his Father's House by first addressing the Father's authority which church fathers had usurped, is nothing but ignorance of an unstudied one of God's Word who twists the Words of Jesus as well as the Apostles to suit their own religious agenda that is in contradistinction to God's will for His people. (2 Pet 3:14-16)

The truth is, it was the council at Laodicea that made the Sabbath change. Interestingly enough, it is the church at Laodicea in Revelations 3 that Messiah says God is going to vomit out of his mouth. Why? Exodus 31:13; Eze 20:12 & 20. The 7th day Sabbath is the sign, the mark of God's people.

Rev 22:12 “And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work. (See Mt. 16:27, John 5:29) 13 “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, (alpha & omega) the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. 14 “Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city. (See Mt. 19:17. Long before the books were compiled to form “The New Testament,” Rev. 22:14 was quoted, as it is here given, by Tertullian (CE 208), and by Cyprian (CE 251) – see the well-known Antenicene Fathers) 15 “But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs, and those who whore, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who love and do falsehood.”

John 1:1 in the beginning was the Word .... 14 the Word put on flesh

If the Word has been from the beginning, the it was the Word who gave all the commands of God to Moses. Scripture says that God will raise up a prophet like Moses (Dt 18) who will speak only the Words the Father gives him (John 7:16 & John 14:24). Therefore it is the reason the Word of God spoke to Moses in Exodus 19:9 that God's children would believe all that was spoken through Moses, FOREVER! (Mt 23:1-3, John 5:46 & John 14)

As a final note, love God with all your heart & love they neighbor are not found anywhere in Exodus, they are found in Lev 19 & Dt 6. Long after the 10 commandments were given and the tabernacle was built. A great explanation of their context can be found by reading the Epistle of 1 John wherein John expounds on what the definition of "love" according to God is.

There is "one" house, there is "one" Shepard and there is only "one" type of people who will enter His house. (Dt 8:2-6 & Dt 10:12-13). Those who fear God and submit to His authority while in the flesh. Nearly 3 million people left Egypt but only 2 of them, Caleb & Joshua made it to the promised land. God says His people are a remnant and that throughout all time, there has always been a remnant of true believers of Messiah (Heb 11).

God's message is clear and His house is for all, native, eunuch and gentile who have it in their hearts to humble themselves, pick up their stake and walk as Jesus walked knowing that when we stumble, we are saved through the blood of the lamb, our Messiah, the only begotten Son & Word of God who is the same yesterday, today & forever. From the beginning of creation through eternity. (Mt 5:17-20, Heb 13:8-9, Dt 13)

18 posted on 07/22/2012 5:02:38 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: stpio; Freedom_Is_Not_Free
In the New Covenant, the Sabbath is changed to the Lord’s Day in honor of Our Lord’s resurrection.

No, it wasn't.

19 posted on 07/22/2012 5:12:46 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Iscool

“Well there ya go again...Puttin’ the bible above the apparitions of the god(ess)

I gave you six days to work, I kept the seventh for myself, and no one wishes to grant it to me,” said Mary in September of 1846 to two visionaries.

According to the ‘Bible’, it was God who gave us the Commandments...Little did we know...”

~ ~ ~

Whatever Mary said when she appeared at La Salette, she above all knows it’s God’s Commandment not hers. Don’t protest. Jesus wants you, everyone to fall in love with her, spiritually speaking. Mary is mother to humanity. It’s the Trinity’s plan.

And the “goddess” objection does not work. A Protestant
minister who wrote a a famous anti-Catholic book with
Babylon written in the title, withdrew the book from further
sale because he figured this out, I think his name is
Woodrow...

Just because things are similar, does not make them the same. Jesus is referred to as the “morning star”, pagans
made some of the stars their -false- gods.

blessings to you Iscool,

stpio


20 posted on 07/22/2012 5:20:55 PM PDT by stpio
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To: Iscool; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; HossB86; wmfights; ...

And that’s not all that is ascribed in RC Marian hyper exaltation: http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/MarySC.html


21 posted on 07/22/2012 6:17:43 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: stpio

I try to set aside at least an hour or so every Saturday to study and contemplate that week’s Torah and Haftorah sections. And somewhat less occasionally, I’ll go to synagogue. Then sometimes on Sundays, I’ll spend a little time with the New Testament for Biblical knowledge’s sake...but I really don’t like Paul, at all.


22 posted on 07/22/2012 7:04:59 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Salvation

thank you so much . You are so smart and helpful.


23 posted on 07/22/2012 8:16:51 PM PDT by marygonzo
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To: Iscool
"I gave you six days to work, I kept the seventh for myself, and no one wishes to grant it to me," said Mary in September of 1846 to two visionaries.

Just another attempt to impart divinity to Mary.

SHE gave us the sabbath????

I don't think so, but that won't stop the Mary worshipers from trying.

I doubt the apparition was Mary since it was trying to take credit for what only God could do and did do.

24 posted on 07/22/2012 9:23:12 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: daniel1212
Danny the Data Dumper.

What Lawyered up Data dumping horse crap. It looks good till you really read it. Then if I go to the fine original print to real sources. You realize it is the view of the the so called scholar not the original early church fathers. It is his view then goofing off with verses to his bias view. What a nice chart of columns that go nowhere in real truth. What the neat look overrides logic for an intelligent debate.

I have been reading this nonsense just to try to know to be fair but it always fails.

Danny the Data dumper.

It is always misunderstanding a true Catholic view. Take a little verse here add his salted view to it. Presto! Eureka! Lawyered it up.

What I find interesting is a qoute from The Catholic Enclopedia has now URL high light like others. It goes on and on.

25 posted on 07/22/2012 10:00:17 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: marygonzo

Trying to be helpful, but not smart.


26 posted on 07/22/2012 10:11:42 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: stpio

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Heb 4:9-10 “There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his”

Jesus is our sabbath rest


27 posted on 07/22/2012 10:46:38 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: johngrace
Oops!

correction

"What I find interesting is a qoute from The Catholic Enclopedia has now URL high light like others. It goes on and on. "

I meant has no URL highlight like the others'. Because it can be taken out of context.

28 posted on 07/22/2012 10:46:59 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: RnMomof7

“Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Heb 4:9-10 “There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his”

Jesus is our sabbath rest”

~ ~ ~

“Jesus is our Sabbath rest” is confusing, please share, what do you mean?

Look at verse 8 in Hebrews Chapter 4:

“For if Jesus had given them rest, he would never have afterwards spoken of another day.”

God was displeased with the Sabbath, Isaiah 1:13. God sees
all of time, the Sabbath was changed to the Lord’s Day, celebrated in the New Covenant on the “first day of the week” instead of Saturday to honor Our Lord’s resurrection.


29 posted on 07/22/2012 11:13:35 PM PDT by stpio
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To: johngrace; daniel1212

Seriously? You are gonna mock someone else for “data dumping”?


30 posted on 07/22/2012 11:14:43 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: All

The Michael Brown article at Spiritdaily is correct.
God warns and warns. Sometimes He sends Our Lady to warn.

America is not heading His warnings even now as they are
increasing. Who gives God one day a week, actually goes to Church? The vile in the movies and electronics, no purity in the children, we have two pro-abort, pro-sodomite candidates running for the highest office in the land.

A major judgment is coming and soon. It’s over 40 years now, a biblical amount of time.


31 posted on 07/22/2012 11:28:18 PM PDT by stpio
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To: All

Drat, I meant to type “heeding His warnings.”....


32 posted on 07/22/2012 11:31:33 PM PDT by stpio
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To: stpio

; All

No matter our faith background, we all must look toward
Jesus as the days get worse. And His way, He sends His mother for our help and direction.

July 20, 2012

Blessed Mother says: “Praise be to Jesus.”

“Today, dear children, I am calling each and all of you to unity of heart. Be of one mind and one heart. Work towards the conversion of as many souls as possible before My Son’s return. This is why I am here in your midst seeking the Consecration of the heart of the world to Our United Hearts. This Consecration will increase the Remnant Faithful and strengthen it in what is to come. In many cases, it will unravel the lies Satan has woven into the fabric of society today.”

“At Fatima My request was for the conversion of Russia; but today the need is for worldwide conversion of heart. Do not think that a global government is the answer. The world today does not need a human solution but a spiritual solution - a spiritual correction of heart.* This is why I come to you. I seek the spiritual renewal of the heart of the world through Our United Hearts.”

Read Philippians 2:1-4

*Note: A spiritual correction refers to repentance and conversion of heart.

http://www.holylove.org/


33 posted on 07/22/2012 11:46:13 PM PDT by stpio
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To: marygonzo
I remember back in the 40;s and 50's stores closed on Sunday...It was even hard to find a gas station open. Most restarants were open, some closed. The only thing usually open on Sunday were movie theatres. Most stores closed at 6 pm during the early week and stayed open on friday and satureday till 9pm.... Nothing was open 24 hours a day.

I have a sneaky suspection that one of the reasons for overweight was there were only 2 drive inns...Big Boy and A & W where you ate in your car...If you were hungry you ate at home not at the local drive through. There was no such thing as a drive through fast food place.. This were mostly kids eating/meeting places... There were none and stopping to eat at a restaurant was expensive and took time.....

34 posted on 07/23/2012 12:18:04 AM PDT by goat granny
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To: johngrace; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; HossB86; wmfights; ..

What Lawyered up Data dumping horse crap. It looks good till you really read it. Then if I go to the fine original print to real sources. You realize it is the view of the the so called scholar not the original early church fathers. It is his view then goofing off with verses to his bias view. What a nice chart of columns that go nowhere in real truth. What the neat look overrides logic for an intelligent debate.

Your argument by whining and scorn is a specious attempt to try to avoid the reproof of the RC data at issue, with his “goofing off with verses to his bias view,” which (as is referenced) was that of your massive "data dump," and which you did not even bother to give attribution for, which could imply it was your own!

Nor do you do not even bother to reference whatever you meant by “fine original print,” while the three links to church “fathers,” which are not in “fine print,” are indeed to actual quotes in 2 cases, with the third being to commentary on Cyril by a conservative Roman Catholic priest.

Your inference that the commentary misleads people into mistaking the commentary for church fathers (which were only briefly dealt with) is bombast, as is your blithe dismissal of it all as horse excrement, while purportedly desiring “intelligent debate.” Which you have thus excluded yourself as engaging in. Bye.

35 posted on 07/23/2012 7:37:37 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: boatbums

Indeed. At least the “dump” part is referenced, that of his own unattributed cut and paste, while my argumentation was hardly a “dump,” regardless of his inability to understand it, but the work of many many hours.


36 posted on 07/23/2012 7:44:54 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: stpio

As usual, none of my five siblings or their families go to Holy Mass on Sunday. A Commandment is a Commandment, in the New Covenant assembling to worship God on Sunday is divine law. Does anyone else have family who skip Church on Sunday? Our nation is going further and further away from God. Are we seeing the beginning of God’s just judgment?


I do not go to mass on sunday either though i guess it may not hurt me.

I do try to rest on the sabbath though as resting on the seventh day is what God commanded.


37 posted on 07/23/2012 9:34:55 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Salvation

Contrary to the teaching of Seventh Day Adventists the early Church gathered for worship on the Lord’s Day (Sunday), not Saturday, in honor of the day our Lord rose from the dead.


Yep, that is right but they did not call it the sabbath, they called it the lords day.

Jesus rested on the Sabbath and was resurrected on the first day of the week ( sunday ) and for that reason sunday is called the lords day and that is when the believers held service.

Sunday has been given the title the Christian Sabbath and to justify it they have to try to change the meaning of different scriptures.

The sabbath is a day of rest.


gen ch 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


I used to believe all of the crap about the Sabbath being changed to sunday.

Changing the sabbath from the seventh day to the first day would be just like changing the out come of world war 2, it is a done deal it can not be changed.

Sat is the seventh day as it has always been and is the Lords sabbath

The early Christians held services on sunday for two reasons.

1.They honored the sabbath as a day of rest.
2.They honored the first day as the lords day.


38 posted on 07/23/2012 10:22:20 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: daniel1212
I believe you can be a christian. I do not know you personally only through cyberspace. But God knows us.

Your entitled to post what you want. But the writings you find are always Lathering Lawyered nonsense. Soap suds.

I do read your posted theology. . There is no way to begin with some of the nonsense.

I just looked up St. Basil. He firmly believed in The Blessed Mary. You have him implying something that is not presented in full text then with an opinion from another writer.

St. Basil the Great

Born probably 329; died 1 January, 379

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3202360.htm

Letter 360. Of the Holy Trinity, the Incarnation, the invocation of Saints, and their Images.

"I confess to the oeconomy of the Son in the flesh, and that the holy Mary, who gave birth to Him according to the flesh, was Mother of God. I acknowledge also the holy apostles, prophets, and martyrs; and I invoke them to supplication to God, that through them, that is, through their mediation, the merciful God may be propitious to me, and that a ransom may be made and given me for my sins. Wherefore also I honour and kiss the features of their images, inasmuch as they have been handed down from the holy apostles, and are not forbidden, but are in all our churches"<.

We all should be reading the full texts of early church fathers. I have software with the original church fathers. Almost 99 percent when a scholar is presented by people against the Catholic church early writings it is out of context. Time and time again.

I pray for all of us on these threads which I believe their are people on both sides who do so too.

What with The middle east going up in smoke according to biblical prophecies. Then this massacre at a theatre for a movie with a title Dark Night Rising. The demoniacs are coming out like busters I do not care to always be posting with daily life getting busier too. But that is my opinion on the writings. There are more important things going on right now.

http://www.northforest.org/EarlyChurchFathers/MaryRef.html#Sinless

39 posted on 07/23/2012 10:29:42 AM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

http://www.northforest.org/EarlyChurchFathers/MaryRef.html#Sinless


40 posted on 07/23/2012 10:31:07 AM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace; daniel1212
"But the writings you find are always Lathering Lawyered nonsense. Soap suds."

John, I fear it is because we are dealing with the disingenuous. Some study to seek truth, other to seek affirmation. Most of what we see from Daniel is a filtered presentation of Scripture and writings carefully edited to affirm Protestant doctrine. With selective presentation it is not difficult to make any author appear to completely endorse any doctrine.

Only when a student approaches a subject with an open mind and gives that subject an honest and THOROUGH consideration can the truth be arrives at. Unfortunately, for too many, the issue is who is right, not what is right. Read Daniels postings, and then, as you have done and Paul Harvey said, read "the rest of the story". In that you will find the truth.

Peace be with you

41 posted on 07/23/2012 10:39:19 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: patlin

According to God’s calendar, the new day dawns as sunset, not sunrise. Scripture says it was “dawning” towards the 1st of the week when they headed out to the tomb, which means the 1st day of the week had not actually come to be yet. It was still Saturday evening.


Every version refers to it as having been after the sabbath.

The new day started after sundown but the dawning did not start until just before sunup

New International
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

New Living Translation
Early on Sunday morning, as the new day was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went out to visit the tomb.

English Standard Version
Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

New American Standard Bible
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

King James Bible
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.


42 posted on 07/23/2012 10:43:53 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Natural Law; boatbums

Considering your other examples of false charges, your typical response is expected, and a positive affirmation.


43 posted on 07/23/2012 11:39:36 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
"Considering your other examples of false charges, your typical response is expected, and a positive affirmation."

Don't take an honest assessment of your scholarship personally. I see you more as the victim of maleducation and not malevolent. I pray that you someday embrace all of the Truth.

Peace be with you.

44 posted on 07/23/2012 12:06:47 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: RnMomof7
 Romans 14:5-12 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,     and every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

45 posted on 07/23/2012 12:15:28 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: daniel1212
Indeed. At least the “dump” part is referenced, that of his own unattributed cut and paste, while my argumentation was hardly a “dump,” regardless of his inability to understand it, but the work of many many hours.

Exactly...And excellent 'garbage dump' BTW...

They can't argue against it...They are not qualified to debate scripture nor their religion's attacks upon it...None of them know enough scripture to debate any of it...Just blindly follow Rome and dish out insults...

46 posted on 07/23/2012 12:17:36 PM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: stpio
A Commandment is a Commandment, in the New Covenant assembling to worship God on Sunday is divine law.

Chapter and verse, please. Because there's not one verse in Scripture to support that statement.

If it's divine decree, or so important, one would think that God would have bothered to put it in the Bible.

Or since the RCC thinks it's so important, why did THEY leave it out?

47 posted on 07/23/2012 12:24:56 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Natural Law; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; HossB86; ...
"Considering your other examples of false charges, your typical response is expected, and a positive affirmation."

Don't take an honest assessment of your scholarship personally. I see you more as the victim of maleducation and not malevolent. I pray that you someday embrace all of the Truth.

How self righteously gracious of you. But I will let some others judge what substantiation has evidenced, versus overreactionary charges.


48 posted on 07/23/2012 1:22:16 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: johngrace; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; HossB86; wmfights; ..

I just looked up St. Basil. He firmly believed in The Blessed Mary. You have him implying something that is not presented in full text then with an opinion from another writer.

Your response is another example of Catholics who are quick to charge a misrepresentation while it is they who are the ones who evidently failed to read or understand the context or what they protest against.

Your quote of Basil does not even refer to what my reference to him was about, which was that of a CF who did not believe in Mary, but as one of the church “fathers ” (i quote from my page) "who saw the sword as relating to Mary having doubt (some saying she sinned) during the Lord's crucifixion.”

And the link then takes you to one who understands Basil as teaching she sinned by such doubting, for (the ref. shows) he believed the sword that pierced the heart Mary was the fulfillment of the prophecy, "All ye shall be offended because of me," that being applicable to all, as Mary doubted like other disciples, and like Peter, she needed to be restored after the Lord's resurrection.

Regarding which Cyril of Alexandria is invoked as referred to by proMary RC scholar Michael O'Carroll, as one who,

"uses phrases about Mary which seem to continue the opinions of Origen (qv) and St. Basil (qv) on imperfection in her faith: 'In all likelihood, even the Lord's Mother was scandalised by the unexpected passion, and the intensely bitter death on the Cross...all but deprived her of right reason.' ((Michael O'Carroll, Theotokos [Wilmington, Delaware: Michael Glazier, Inc., 1988], p. 113)

And although I myself did not argue that Basil or the others taught that Mary sinned, as that is of little weight to me here (some even believed that marital relations had to involve sinful passions), and would not say Basil is a strong case for that, yet while some overeactionary Romanists are quick to charge "out of context" or "fabrications" when they see most any such thing that impugns their claims, more notable RCAs as Newman concurs that Basil saw Mary as committing sin, even though he disagrees with him:

1. St. Basil imputes to the Blessed Virgin, not only doubt, but the sin of doubt. On the other hand, 1. he imputes it only on one occasion; 2. he does not consider it to be a grave sin; 3. he implies that, in point of spiritual perfection, she is above the Apostles.

In arguing against Basil, he sees his understanding as derived from Origen who stated,

"Are we to think, that the Apostles were scandalized, and not the Lord's Mother? If she suffered not scandal at {144} our Lord's passion, then Jesus died not for her sins. If all have sinned and need the glory of God, being justified by His grace, and redeemed, certainly Mary at that time was scandalized." This is precisely the argument of Basil, as contained in the passage given above; his statement then of the Blessed Virgin's wavering in faith, instead of professing to be the tradition of a doctrine, carries with it an avowal of its being none at all.

(http://www.newmanreader.org/works/anglicans/volume2/pusey/notes.html)

The CE also affirms that "Some few patristic writers expressed their doubts as to the presence of minor moral defects in Our Blessed Lady," mentioning Basil and Chrysostom, even if they (of course) disallow dissenting views as being Apostolic tradition. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

The demoniacs are coming out like busters I do not care to always be posting with daily life getting busier too. But that is my opinion on the writings. There are more important things going on right now.

Well John, silence would be better than dismissing all my work as horse excrement, even if you were being hasty, and protesting against a perceived misrepresentation, neither of which is the case.

49 posted on 07/23/2012 1:39:19 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
"But I will let some others judge what substantiation has evidenced, versus overreactionary charges."

I welcome the scrutiny. The Truth has nothing to fear from daylight and is not determined by a consensus of anti-Catholics, after all it was a crowd that chose Barabbas over Jesus.

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." - John 8:32

Peace be with you Peace be with you

50 posted on 07/23/2012 1:49:09 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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