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Fr Mitch Pacwa: Lack of any Spiritual Depth to Messages May be the Unraveling of Medjugorje
Sanctepater ^ | July 29, 2012 | Greg Garrison

Posted on 07/29/2012 2:43:23 PM PDT by NYer

[Father Mitch] Pacwa said there is no chance for the visions to get approval while they're still going on, and it's a long shot even after they stop.

One quirk that emerged was when two of the Medjugorje visionaries said the Virgin Mary endorsed a book, "The Poem of the Man-God," that had been condemned by the Vatican. The fanciful 1940s biography of Jesus by Maria Valtorta contains details like a dancing girl brushing up against Jesus, Joseph giving young Jesus an anachronistic tool kit with screwdrivers and the Virgin Mary making statements such as "man disgusts me," Pacwa said.

"The book had been condemned by the church in 1959 because it said a lot of silly things that contradicted what was in the gospels," Pacwa said. "The church rejected it. Any vision must be judged by revelation that exists in the gospels. You can't say anything you want."

What may be the unraveling of the Medjugorje visions is the lack of any spiritual depth to the messages, Pacwa said.

"That is a much more pointed critique," he said.

The writings of Sister Faustina, now a saint, describe visions from Jesus. "As you kept reading, a new depth of spiritual life began to show itself," Pacwa said. "You can see definite growth over the years in her spiritual messages. I don't see that with the messages of Medjugorje. They tend to be the same thing over and over again. Something I would look for is a growth in spiritual depth. I haven't sensed it."

Pacwa said Vatican theologians will take all that into account and that Medjugorje in the end may be denied church approval.

"I don't have a sense this is going to go swimmingly. I am very impressed with a number of the positive things I have experienced there. I have a lot of respect for the good things that have occurred. But I'm not going to be naive about some of the problems. It has to be dealt with, with full integrity."
Related:


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: blessedvirginmary; bosnia; catholic; herzegovina; mary; medjugorje; medugorje; pacwa; poemofthemangod; valtorta; virginmary

1 posted on 07/29/2012 2:43:33 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

This is a Catholic Caucus Thread


2 posted on 07/29/2012 2:45:02 PM PDT by NYer (Without justice, what else is the State but a great band of robbers? - St. Augustine)
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To: NYer
Suppose it's legit. That doesn't mean the crazies -- you know, the left wing of the church -- won't try to co-opt it for to push their favorite heresy.

In fact, it pretty much guarantees it.

3 posted on 07/29/2012 2:52:18 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Woe to them...)
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To: NYer

I have a hard time believing the “Blessed Mother” would endorse a book.


4 posted on 07/29/2012 2:52:39 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: NYer

I think when people start coming away with track odds, lottery numbers and stock picks, it’ll pretty well be played out.


5 posted on 07/29/2012 2:53:35 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Woe to them...)
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To: NYer
"Lack of...spiritual depth?" I would hardly guess that by watching Vicka ... Link

/sarc
6 posted on 07/29/2012 2:53:52 PM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: NYer

I hope he is right. I love Fr. Mitch

There is no Spiritual Depth to the Messages of Medjugorje.

Great article, thanks for posting.


7 posted on 07/29/2012 2:58:29 PM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore (If Obama were twice as smart as he is, he would be a wit)
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To: stpio

Ping


8 posted on 07/29/2012 3:07:36 PM PDT by xone
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To: Venturer

Competing with Oprah?


9 posted on 07/29/2012 4:19:34 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: NYer
Sounds about right to me. I say this although a minor miracle occurred for us, after a well-known Medjugorje devotee and pilgrimage leader prayed for a successful outcome to a situation we had.

I have always ascribed this to the following: If one sincerely prays for Blessed Virgin Mary's intervention for a good cause, it doesn't matter where you are standing, even on top of the big hill at Medjugorje, maybe even in the middle of one of the fake apparition sessions (if so). She is still quite capable of answering the petitioner's intentions and evidently is not deterred by the naivete of those poor Catholics who have been swept up in the deception. Just how you'd expect She'd handle it, really.

10 posted on 07/29/2012 4:30:15 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: NYer

I respect what Fr. Beyers has to say on the subject and have been reading about this for the past two weeks. The Church will correctly discern.


11 posted on 07/29/2012 4:38:08 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita

To me it seemed as though Medjugorje was OK at the beginning, and then I have wondered what happened. I haven’t been following it, but am reading a book about apparitions right now. Supposedly Medjugorje is the last one before the End Times.

Does that jive with what you have been reading?


12 posted on 07/29/2012 4:45:12 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Here is some of what what I’ve been reading:

http://holysoulshermitage.com/2012/07/13/predicting-the-decision-on-medjugorje-with-common-sense/#more-11931


13 posted on 07/29/2012 4:57:01 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. - Modified Descartes)
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To: NYer
• What is Happening at Medjugorje?
In the first few years following the apparitions, around thirty different apparition places were chosen, with the Gospa appearing often as if “on cue.” Some of the messages, even in our open-minded era, would be categorized as not just heterodox, but heretical. We hear that all religions are equal (“Before God all the faiths are identical. God governs them like a king in his kingdom.”) All sufferings are equal in hell; and Mirjana quotes the Gospa as telling her that people begin feeling comfortable in hell. As regards the afterlife, those who go to heaven after death “are present with the soul and the body.” When the Madonna is asked about the title, “Mediatrix of all graces,” she replies, “I do not dispose of all graces.”

Got to be fake. All religions are not equal. Islam is evil.

14 posted on 07/29/2012 6:22:11 PM PDT by FR_addict
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To: FR_addict

Link
One quirk that emerged was when two of the Medjugorje visionaries said the Virgin Mary endorsed a book, “The Poem of the Man-God,” that had been condemned by the Vatican. The fanciful 1940s biography of Jesus by Maria Valtorta contains details like a dancing girl brushing up against Jesus, Joseph giving young Jesus an anachronistic tool kit with screwdrivers and the Virgin Mary making statements such as “man disgusts me,” Pacwa said.

“The book had been condemned by the church in 1959 because it said a lot of silly things that contradicted what was in the gospels,” Pacwa said. “The church rejected it. Any vision must be judged by revelation that exists in the gospels. You can’t say anything you want.”

Got to be fake. Mary is not going to endorse some new age religious book.


15 posted on 07/29/2012 6:26:31 PM PDT by FR_addict
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To: NYer

http://spiritdaily.com/charbelmiracle.htm


16 posted on 07/29/2012 9:30:55 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: NYer

“The writings of Sister Faustina, now a saint, describe visions from Jesus. “As you kept reading, a new depth of spiritual life began to show itself,” Pacwa said. “You can see definite growth over the years in her spiritual messages. I don’t see that with the messages of Medjugorje. They tend to be the same thing over and over again. Something I would look for is a growth in spiritual depth. I haven’t sensed it.”

~ ~ ~

I love Father Pacwa, he is the wisest, kindest priest. And he’s right, there’s no depth to the messages in comparison to other current private revelation.

And the visionaries seem to be too much in the spotlight, unlike, say...the Garabandal seers.

But, what of the conversions, return to the Sacraments, the miraculous healings at Medjugorje? And remember, the Divine Mercy revelations were first rejected too.

I don’t know...I am not drawn to Medjugorje. One other,
watching the videos of Mirjanna during Mary’s appearance
to her once a month, I don’t see any pretense or falsehood in her face.


17 posted on 07/30/2012 1:53:47 AM PDT by stpio (")
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To: stpio
And he’s right, there’s no depth to the messages in comparison to other current private revelation. And the visionaries seem to be too much in the spotlight, unlike, say...the Garabandal seers. But, what of the conversions, return to the Sacraments, the miraculous healings at Medjugorje? And remember, the Divine Mercy revelations were first rejected too.

I wonder if these seemingly superficial messages (with their "lack of spiritual depth") are designed as such due to the times we're living in. So many people have not only turned from God and are immersed in sin, but also lack the spiritual and intellectual foundations to be drawn (at least initially) to deeper spiritual truths. Under these circumstances, it would seem that a more gentle approach might have the capacity to draw a larger number of souls to investigate further.

At this point, there's no way of knowing whether it's real or not, so I'm keeping an open mind.

18 posted on 07/30/2012 9:02:03 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: BlatherNaut

“I wonder if these seemingly superficial messages (with their “lack of spiritual depth”) are designed as such due to the TIMES we’re living in. So many people have not only turned from God and are immersed in sin, but also LACK THE SPIRITUAL AND INTELLECTUAL FOUNDATIONS to be drawn (at least initially) to deeper spiritual truths. Under these circumstances, it would seem that a more gentle approach might have the capacity to draw a larger number of souls to investigate further.

At this point, there’s no way of knowing whether it’s real or not, so I’m keeping an open mind.”

~ ~ ~

Makes perfect sense and maybe the reason why there are so many pilgrims going to Medjugorje.

And nothing against Father Mitch, he is very holy and a
walking history book. If you listen to him for two minutes,
you learn something new about the faith.

I am keeping an open mind also. And, don’t you all wonder, if Medjugorje is false, why do miracles like this happen?

* * *

A striking miracle occurred in Medjugorje involving a forty-three- year-old Italian secretary and mother of three, Diana Basile. Multiple sclerosis had been diagnosed in 1972, along with total urinary incontinence, perineal dermatitis, blindness in one eye, difficulty in walking and, to compound matters, a severe clinical depression. In May of 1984, a friend persuaded Diana to join a pilgrimage group going from Milan to Medjugorje.

On the evening of May 23, she was in the church and a friend helped her to climb the steps to the side chapel where the apparitions were then occurring. From the records kept at the parish in Medjugorje, here are her own words:

At that point I no longer wanted to enter the chapel...but the door was opened and I went in. I knelt just behind the door. When the children came in and knelt down...I heard a loud noise. After that I remember nothing, except an indescribable joy and certain episodes of my life passing before my eyes as though on film.

When it was all over, I followed the children, who went straight to the main altar in the church. I was walking just like everybody else, and I knelt down just as they did. It didn’t actually occur to me that anything extraordinary had happened, until my friend came up to me in tears.

Diana’s cure had been INSTANTANEOUS. Later that night she found that she was no longer incontinent, and the dermatitis had completely disappeared. Her right eye, useless for twelve years, had regained perfect vision. The following day she walked the six miles from her hotel in Ljubuski to the church in Medjugorje, and later climbed Mt. Podbrdo.


19 posted on 07/30/2012 11:51:50 AM PDT by stpio (")
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To: NYer

bumpus ad summum


20 posted on 07/30/2012 9:37:11 PM PDT by Dajjal (Justice Robert Jackson was wrong -- the Constitution IS a suicide pact.)
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To: NYer

I’m skeptical of Medjugorje myself. However, I’m content to let the Church deal with the alleged apparition, and in the mean time Catholics can focus on other things like the approved message of Fatima.


21 posted on 07/31/2012 8:57:43 AM PDT by Shadow44
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To: NYer

We all love Father Mitch, he is so holy. I wish he knew
of another miracle at Medjugorje. It was posted at
http://www.spiritdaily.com ~

http://www.medjugorjetoday.tv/6658/woman-stands-up-from-her-wheelchair/


22 posted on 08/21/2012 3:42:57 PM PDT by stpio
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