Skip to comments.Islam & Lds, Muhammad & Joseph Smith: Similarities (+ Lds ecumenical nods toward Islam) [Vanity]
Posted on 07/31/2012 6:31:13 PM PDT by Colofornian
Per the Feb. 7, 2012 Pakistan Independent (see first link below), "The current LDS First Presidency Statement of 1978 says specifically mentions Prophet Muhammad as one of the great religious leaders of the world who received a portion of Gods light .
It would appear, therefore, that the Muslim world might be "happy" with either an Obama re-election or Mitt Romney. And, hey, why not? Just look at all the "ecumenical" outreach attempts with Islam made by Mormon leaders in the "ecumenical" link section listed below.
For these past seven years, over a dozen Freepers have been faithful in posting the 25 articles linked below...several of these written by Mormon writers/sources -- and one thread below posted by a Mormon.
* Mormonism: What the Latter Day Saints think of Islam [Indicator of how Mitt perceives Islam?] [Pakistan Independent thread]
* Mitt Romney: "Islam is not an inherently violent faith" [My Note: With this kind of lack of Romney foreign policy discernment, expect MORE Romney foreign policy boo-boos like his comments in the UK @ Olympics]
* Islamic And Mormonism Similarities: Similarities Between Joseph Smith and Muhammad (Written by Brother Andrew, a pioneer missionary leader to typically "closed" countries re: the gospel)
* Islamic And Mormonism Similarities (Same content posted a year later on FR)
* Common Threads between Islam and Mormonism (posted by Freeper poster Kaslin and written by one with an Egyptian heritage)
* Common Threads between Islam and Mormonism (same thread as above -- posted by another FREEPER)
* Mormons and Muslims? How do you all see each other? [Written @ BYU source]
* A Latter-day Saint Perspective on Muhammad Mormon-(OPEN) [Written by a BYU prof and posted in official Lds church publication]
* Thoughts on Islam, in Mormons and Muslims: Spiritual Foundations and Modern Manifestations
* Muslims and Latter-day Saints Mormon (OPEN) [article from a recognized Lds site]
* Bridges of faith between Mormons and Muslims
* (LDS)L.D.S. perspective on Islam (this is an earlier -- 2005 --FR thread citing a BYU prof who's been deemed a "leader" among Lds apologists)
* Mormons, Muslims break the fast in Southern California (Mormon "interfaith outreach)
* Muslims and Mormons share worship space in St Charles
* A Message of Friendship: Muslims and Latter-Day Saints [from a recognized Lds apologetics Web site]
* BYU Hawaiis First Non-Mormon Student President Credits Mormons for Making Him a Better Muslim
* Muslims attending BYU focus on similarities between Islam, LDS tenets
* Mormons, Muslims get along by creating books, not destroying them [LDS OPEN]
* Major Islamic art exhibit being installed at BYU [Utah Mormon University]
* 'Beauty and Belief' - Acclaimed Islamic art exhibit at BYU [Mormon]
* Latter-day Saint Perspective on Muhammad (LDS/Muslim Caucus) (This was posted by a Mormon and was written by a BYU prof)
* Revealed: Mormons Baptized 9/11 Hijacker, made several attempts to Baptize Mohammed
* MSNBC: MORMONS BAPTIZED 9/11 HIJACKER: Will Mainstream Media destroy Romney over his Religion?
* Twin Sept. 11 tragedies created tides of religious intolerance
* Mitt Romneys Mormon faith tangles with a quirk of Arkansas history [Washington Post thread]
ping...brief mention in vanity as thread-poster
The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created THROUGH Him, BY Him and FOR Him.
They deny that Jesus created even the angels out of nothing.
They do NOT teach the truth about Jesus.
Indeed, this IS THE "place marker" thread if you want to find out all things FREEPERS have noted about connections, ties, and links between Islam/Muslims/Muhammad and the two major presidential candidates.
To offer "balance," here are links I dug up from 11 past FREEPER threads posted between 2008 - 2012 that sought to yield ties between Obama & Islam/Muslims:
Truth is hatred? Love it. If Colofornian is coming from ignorance ... prove him wrong.
You surely can't expect a "cuss 'em and run" recess wimp to be able to do that; right??
I can only read and retain this information about Mormonism in reasonable bites. Today, I followed your terrorism link regarding the Mountain Meadow Massacre. The Mormons placed such little value on human life. It seems that may logically follow from the rejection of Christianity.
Was hope’n. LOL! ;-)
Well, #1, Mormonism's rejection of Christianity itself was an attempt to place worldwide Christianity into ONE BIG GIANT SPIRITUAL graveyard. (They claimed ALL of us -- even our country's founding fathers -- apostatized from the Christian faith). Joseph Smith took a "scorched earth" approach to attempting to wipe away Christianity. After all, no 100% apostasy; no need for his "restoration" from scratch.
#2, Part of Mormonism's disrespect for human life in the 19th century was, I believe, simply an automaton response -- following the 'Prophet' (Brigham Young & his militia orderlies) -- in committing mass murder.
#3, war & violence is in the Bible & Book of Mormon alike. But the bloodshed in the war-filled Book of Mormon runs in the death tolls of supposed millions. Of course, men will be men...but even the Mormon jesus is a violent, vengeful entity @ the moment of the Mormon jesus' death. IOW, Mormon violence is commended -- from the top down!
This ABSOLUTELY VITAL difference of the Mormon restored gospel is presenting a violent Mormon jesus: When the Mormon jesus dies, he unleashes punishment and levels 16 cities, killing 70,000-->90,000 people (see 3 Nephi 8 and 3 Nephi 9). Nothing of the kind is stated in the Bible.
Yes, there was judgment on the cross!
Yes, it was terrible!
But the real Jesus absorbed all of that judgment and terror -- our very sins -- there on the cross!
Too many LDS & RLDS alike ONLY see the Book of Mormon Easter judgment upon people! The week that followed the Book of Mormon jesus resurrection, was a terrible 4 days or so! No wonder they want to stay away from the cross and what immediately happened according to the Joseph Smith version of events:
Mormon version of Jesus speaking post-resurrection:
city Zarahemla: I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof [3 Nephi 9:3; cf. 3 Nephi 8:8, 24)
city Moroni: I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned. [3 Nephi 9:4; cf. 3 Nephi 8:9]
city Moronihah: have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them. (3 Nephi 9:5)
city Gilgal: have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth; [3 Nephi 9:6]
cities Onihah, Mocum, and Jerusalem: waters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come up any more unto me against them. [3 Nephi 9:7]
cities Gadiandi, Gadiomnah, Jacob, and Gimgimno: all these have I caused to be sunk, and made hills and valleys in the places thereof; and the inhabitants thereof have I buried up in the depths of the earth, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up any more unto me against them. [3 Nephi 9:8]
city Jacobugath: have I caused to be burned with fire because of their sins and their wickedness, which was above all the wickedness of the whole earth, because of their secret murders and combinations; for it was they that did destroy the peace of my people and the government of the land; therefore I did cause them to be burned, to destroy them from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up unto me any more against them. [3 Nephi 9:9]
cities Laman, Josh, Gad, Kishkumen: have I caused to be burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof, because of their wickedness in casting out the prophets, and stoning those whom I did send to declare unto them concerning their wickedness and their abominations. [3 Nephi 9:10]
In the true gospel Jesus is entombed.
In the Mormon restored gospel", the mass of people in Moronihah is the emphasis of entombment, having been covered with an entire mountain by the Mormon jesus! (3 Nephi 8:10)
On Easter week! The other cities were all either sunk by the Mormon jesus, or horrifically burned to death, plus for added emphasis, many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land... (3 Nephi 9:12)
The true gospel: "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." (Bible, Mark 2:17)
The Mormon Easter version of this: 11 And because they did cast them all out, that there were NONE RIGHTEOUS AMONG THEM, I did send down fire and destroy them, that their wickedness and abominations might be hid from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints whom I sent among them might not cry unto me from the ground against them. [3 Nephi 9:11]
Now if the destruction of all these Book of Mormon cities wasnt enough of an Easter tale for Smith, heres what he said went on in immediate days following Jesus resurrection:
3 Nephi 9:12:
12 And many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land
3 Nephi 8:
6 And there was also a great and terrible tempest; and there was terrible thunder, insomuch that it did shake the whole earth as if it was about to divide asunder.
7 And there were exceedingly sharp lightnings, such as never had been known in all the land.
11 And there was a great and terrible destruction in the land southward.
12 But behold, there was a more great and terrible destruction in the land northward; for behold, the whole face of the land was changed, because of the tempest and the whirlwinds, and the thunderings and the lightnings, and the exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth;
13 And the highways were broken up, and the level roads were spoiled, and many smooth places became rough.
15 And there were some cities which remained; but the damage thereof was exceedingly great, and there were many in them who were slain.
16 And there were some who were carried away in the whirlwind; and whither they went no man knoweth, save they know that they were carried away.
17 And thus the face of the whole earth became deformed, because of the tempests, and the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the quaking of the earth.
18 And behold, the rocks were rent in twain; they were broken up upon the face of the whole earth, insomuch that they were found in broken fragments, and in seams and in cracks, upon all the face of the land.
19 And it came to pass that when the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the storm, and the tempest, and the quakings of the earth did ceasefor behold, they did last for about the space of three hours; and it was said by some that the time was greater; nevertheless, all these great and terrible things were done in about the space of three hoursand then behold, there was darkness upon the face of the land.
20 And it came to pass that there was thick darkness upon all the face of the land, insomuch that the inhabitants thereof who had not fallen could feel the vapor of darkness;
21 And there could be no light, because of the darkness, neither candles, neither torches; neither could there be fire kindled with their fine and exceedingly dry wood, so that there could not be any light at all;
22 And there was not any light seen, neither fire, nor glimmer, neither the sun, nor the moon, nor the stars, for so great were the mists of darkness which were upon the face of the land.
23 And it came to pass that it did last for the space of three days that there was no light seen; and there was great mourning and howling and weeping among all the people continually; yea, great were the groanings of the people, because of the darkness and the great destruction which had come upon them.
24 And in one place they were heard to cry, saying: O that we had repented before this great and terrible day, and then would our brethren have been spared, and they would not have been burned in that great city Zarahemla
I'm sorry, but Jesus didn't come to make people "howl" in their own destruction (3 Nephi 8:23)...that wasn't his purpose in coming the first time!
Jesus said: I am come that they might have LIFE, and that they might have it more abundantly. (John 10:10)
We AMERICANS place little value on human life. It seems that may logically follow from the rejection of Christianity.
47,000,000 and counting...
No matter how many times “Mountain Meadow Massacre” is talked about, it is the exception and not the rule. You do not have to agree with us, but I wish you would get some of you information about us from somewhere then from those who are not careful with reteaching our teachings.
Questions put to Joseph Smith: “’Do you believe the Bible?’ [Smith:]’If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do’
Do you believe that the translation of the Bible is the only true translation, or do you believe that God’s word can be understood to mean different things to different people and all the different meanings are still true?
hey, there is always Scientology to make Mormons look good.
That is the best referenced “ignorance” I have ever seen...
During WWII in Germany the Mormons enjoyed an unmolested period amongst their Nazi buddies...
While brave Christian priests and pastors were being murdered and imprisoned for speaking out about the atrocities visited upon the Jews and trying to hide them from the Nazis, the racist Mormons were encouraging the Nazis in the holocaust against the defenceless innocent Jews...
Would the Mormons encourage the Moslems to torture and kill Jews and other non-Mormons as they aided the Nazis in Hitlers Germany ???
Why does the mormon koran have Joseph Smith as the author
and yet the Christian Bible has no man’s name on it ???
(Joseph Smith didn't...hence his "Inspired version" -- the revised JST "version" he made up)
...or do you believe that Gods word can be understood to mean different things to different people and all the different meanings are still true?
And ALL the differences -- no matter how many and how diverse and how contradictory ALL those distinct interpretations are -- might somehow ALL hang together as "true?" (Did you REALLY ask this question???)
Tau: In 1858, Brigham Young was given that "exception" a22freeman is talking about by being handed a pardon for his part in the MMM atrocities.
Tau: If what a22freeman was "so," then Mormons would have turned evidence vs. a number of the killers involved...instead of ONLY ONE that was ever tried and convicted. (IOW, it became THE "MORMON RULE" in the 19th century -- and those who lived into the 20th century with special knowledge about these atrocities -- to hide the info...)
Young and other Mormon leaders have all excused the Mormon mass-murderers -- at least 42 known Mormons by never bringing them to justice...or even ex-communicating them (two were; but were reinstated later -- one while still alive; the other after his death)...
Per Mitt Romney, who addressed the MMM during his 2007 presidential campaign in response to a reporters question: That was a terrible, awful act carried out by members of my faith, he told the Associated Press. There are bad people in any church, and its true of members of my church, too.
Well...the MMM mass-murderers included...
...an Lds bishop,
...an Lds "to be" bishop,
...two stake presidents,
...a counselor to a stake president...
...and perhaps others higher up the chain...
(So much for people -- like Mitt Romney -- claiming there's "murderers" in every church...such "murderers" in other churches aren't readily elevated to--or retained as -- church leadership...like what happened with these mass murderers)
One of the Mormon stake presidents had been in that role about a year when the massacre occurred...as a "reward" for his part in the slaughter, Lds "prophets" Brigham Young and John Taylor left him in that role. He (William Dame) wound up serving 24 years as an Lds stake president (1856-1880).
I'm sorry...but as "a rule," known leaders in massacres are not retained for 23 MORE years as church leaders.
Solid LDS church history researchers implicate William Dame's role in the massacre. It's not simply speculation. One Lds church historian even breaks it down perpetrator by perpetrator.
#2: Please don't stop @ this thread. (Perhaps you can show some consistency & keep hitting up various threads where you can "ID" other posters who don't make their giving patterns public)
How about you and your posse match my donations dollar per dollar? Are you up for it?
We will start at $100. When each of your matches, I will keep adding. How about it?
BTTT for tomorrow.
What is that unreasoned response.
Are you able to comment on the post or just limited in ability to attack the poster.
The exposure of mormonism comes from their own words and the personal experiences of those of us who have mormon families and or where mormon.
The information given is easily verified.
Interesting mormons tend not to defend these but dance around the issues, as the lds traing goes “only answer the questions that should have been asked and avoid all others”.
You apparently have learned your lessons well.
Err.. which translation? And translation from what?
There is only one canon of scripture among Christians and that is encapsulated in the books of the Bible. The words and meanings are as in the original Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic translated to the Vulgate and thenceforth. There have been minor or major slips when translated into more later languages like French or the modern language of modern English, and one can quibble over various points, but the overall theme of the Bible is the same as it ever was
And the key theme is that God is ONE, there are no multiple gods and Jesus is God.
What do you mean by 'the'?
Oh, LDS, Inc. has it's PR department to do THAT job!
Party ownership of the print media
made it easy to manipulate public opinion,
and the film and radio carried the process further.
The Ministry of Truth, Winston's place of work, contained, it was said, three thousand rooms above ground level, and corresponding ramifications below.
The Ministry of Truth concerned itself with Lies. Party ownership of the print media made it easy to manipulate public opinion, and the film and radio carried the process further.
The primary job of the Ministry of Truth was to supply the citizens of Oceania with newspapers, films, textbooks, telescreen programmes, plays, novels - with every conceivable kind of information, instruction, or entertainment, from a statue to a slogan, from a lyric poem to a biological treatise, and from a child's spelling-book to a Newspeak dictionary.
Winston worked in the RECORDS DEPARTMENT (a single branch of the Ministry of Truth) editing and writing for The Times. He dictated into a machine called a speakwrite. Winston would receive articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to alter, or, in Newspeak, rectify. If, for example, the Ministry of Plenty forecast a surplus, and in reality the result was grossly less, Winston's job was to change previous versions so the old version would agree with the new one. This process of continuous alteration was applied not only to newspapers, but to books, periodicals, pamphlets, posters, leaflets, films, sound-tracks, cartoons, photographs - to every kind of literature or documentation which might conceivably hold any political or ideological significance.
When his day's work started, Winston pulled the speakwrite towards him, blew the dust from its mouthpiece, and put on his spectacles. He dialed 'back numbers' on the telescreen and called for the appropriate issues of The Times, which slid out of the pneumatic tube after only a few minutes' delay. The messages he had received referred to articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to rectify.
In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube for written messages; to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and on the side wall, within easy reach of Winston's arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed memory holes. When one knew that any document was due for destruction, or even when one saw a scrap of waste paper lying about, it was an automatic action to lift the flap of the nearest memory hole and drop it in, whereupon it would be whirled away on a current of warm air to the enormous furnaces which were hidden somewhere in the recesses of the building.
As soon as Winston had dealt with each of the messages, he clipped his speakwritten corrections to the appropriate copy of The Times and pushed them into the pneumatic tube. Then, with a movement which was as nearly as possible unconscious, he crumpled up the original message and any notes that he himself had made, and dropped them into the memory hole to be devoured by the flames.
What happened in the unseen labyrinth to which the tubes led, he did not know in detail, but he did know in general terms. As soon as all the corrections which happened to be necessary in any particular number of The Times had been assembled and collated, that number would be reprinted, the original copy destroyed, and the corrected copy placed on the files in its stead.
In the cubicle next to him the little woman with sandy hair toiled day in day out, simply at tracking down and deleting from the Press the names of people who had been vaporized and were therefore considered never to have existed. And this hall, with its fifty workers or thereabouts, was only one-sub-section, a single cell, as it were, in the huge complexity of the Records Department. Beyond, above, below, were other swarms of workers engaged in an unimaginable multitude of jobs.
There were huge printing-shops and their sub editors, their typography experts, and their elaborately equipped studios for the faking of photographs. There was the tele-programmes section with its engineers, its producers and its teams of actors specially chosen for their skill in imitating voices; clerks whose job was simply to draw up lists of books and periodicals which were due for recall; vast repositories where the corrected documents were stored; and the hidden furnaces where the original copies were destroyed.
And somewhere or other, quite anonymous, there were the directing brains who co-ordinated the whole effort and laid down the lines of policy which made it necessary that this fragment of the past should be preserved, that one falsified, and the other rubbed out of existence.
LOL! And here I thought I was the only one thinking the Mormon bigots got real quiet about halfway through the freepathon! I thought maybe it was some sort of clan meeting in Hawaii or something.
SOMEone fails to understand FREE speech!
Actually for some of us there is...
But I am sure you know way more than I, like how to make up totally off topic keywords and arguments not even remotely germane to the post at hand...