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Turkey's Fate...Islam In Prophecy pt 15
http://billrandles.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/the-future-of-turkey-islam-in-prophecy-pt-15/ ^ | 08-05-12 | Bill Randles

Posted on 08/04/2012 6:58:46 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles

The modern nation of Turkey is an important player in the events leading to the Day of the Lord. Though it is a Muslim nation at present, in the earliest centuries of the new testament church, it was in the Turkish region that the gospel first flourished beyond the borders of Judea and Samaria.

The apostles took the gospel to what then was refered to as the Roman province of Asia, within decades of the resurrection of Jesus. Paul taught there for two years as recorded in Acts 19.The original letters of the Apocalypse were addressed to churches in Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and to Laodicea, all in modern-day Turkey.

The epistles to Thessalonica, Galatians, I John, I and II Timothy and Revelation all originally addressed greek speaking converts in what is now called Turkey. Eventually the Roman Emperor Constantine, in the 4th century, built a city on the Dardanelles strait, Constantinople, as the eastern capital of the Roman Empire.

For the next thousand years, the Christianity that Constantine officially legalized, became the religion of the Byzantine empire, which extended over the middle east, a swath of eastern Europe and all of Turkey.

But with the rise and expansion of Islam, bit, by bit, Byzantium fell to the Muslims over the next eight centuries, slowly and steadily until in 1452 Constantinople fell to the Muslim invaders. The Turkish empire which replaced it, became known as the Ottoman empire, a Sunni Muslim empire which held sway for five centuries, but which collapsed as an outcome of World War 1, the Turks having been on the losing side.

One of Turkey’s post war leaders, was a man named Mustafa Kemal. He was also known as Attaturk ,”Father of Turks”, and as a hero of the first World War ,who had commanded Turkish forces during the ill-fated British invasion and siege of Gallipoli.

In the aftermath of the war, Attaturk initiated sweeping national reforms; culturally, politically and even religiously, Seperating the power of the Mosque from the state, outlawing religious clothing such as the hijab and other forms of Islamic attire. For more than eighty years, these reforms have remained, allowing Turkey to become a modern, secular state, a partner with NATO, and to be considered for membership in the European Union.

The fairly recent elections in Turkey brought Turkish Islamist elements to power. Already the former friendship with the United States has weakened and Turkey is distancing herself from Israel. One by one many of Attaturk’s reforms are being reversed as Islam reasserts itself in Turkish society.

Turkey’s long friendship with the United States and with Israel has cooled, and she has began to assert herself as a regional Muslim power with a first class military and economy.

The Prophets of the Bible have much to say about the future of this non-Arab Islamic people. Meshech, Gomer and ”Beth Togarmah”, (ie the house of Togarmeh), are some of the names the Biblical prophets cite when referring to this region.

And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.(Ezekiel 38:1-6)

*Gog, and Magog - Gog is a person, a designation for an Anti-God leader of a rebellion. Magog is the name of a region, particularly, the southern Steppes of Russia, Turkmenistan,Kazakhstan,Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Azerbaijan.

* Meshech and Tubal- Meshech was the son of Japheth, Noah’s son. Many believe that Meshech is Moscow, but It has been pointed out in Walid Shoebat’s valuable book,”God’s War On Terror”, that ancient historians such as Herodotus and Josephus, associate Meshech with the Cappadocians. Cappadocia is a region in Turkey. Tubal was a regional ally of Meshech.

* Gomer- This is a reference to the ancient Kimmerian peoples, of central Turkey.

*Beth Togarmeh- The house of Togarmeh, which was a city-state in Eastern Turkey, more recently known as Anatolia.

It may be as many surmise, that “Gog” is the head of the Russian people, leading these Islamic nations into battle against the Jews. God addresses him personally in Ezekiel, insuring him of his defeat. The Russians have certainly been an “armorer” unto these nations as Ezekiel 38:7 literally says, “…Be thou an armorer unto them”.

Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

Though the Turks have traditionally been inveterate foes of the Russians for centuries, and were aligned with the US in the cold war confrontation with the Soviet Union, the combination of being refused admission to the EU and the election to office of the Islamist politicians, Turkey has been pursuing deeper ties with the Arab world, and with the Russians who are arming it.

After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Ezekiel tells us that Turkey is slated to participate in a muli-national invasion of Israel, which is doomed to suffer a direct judgment of God as a consequence and on the basis of Genesis 12:3, “…I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you”.

The Turks will be there, for the terrible war, with their “grade A “military; western trained, and equipped. They will come down, along with the Turkik nations of the former Soviet Union, Iran, Libya, Somalia/Sudan, and possibly led by Russia. All of these nations are united in a bitter hatred of Israel, and all except Russia, have Islam in common, to stoke that hatred.

They will serve as a living and dying demonstration that there is truly a God in the earth, as prophesied by Ezekiel and others,

Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand. Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God. And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the Lord. So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel.(Ezekiel 39:1-7)


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: bloggersandpersonal; endtimes; eschatology; israel; jesus; sourcetitlenoturl; turkey; vanity

1 posted on 08/04/2012 6:59:02 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
Gog is a person, a designation for an Anti-God leader of a rebellion

I've always taken this as being a reference about Anti Christ. Could it be the Mahdi, or rather someone calling himself the twelfth imam? If this islamic leader came from Turkey a lot of prophecy would fit just like pieces in a puzzle. We are living in VERY interesting times!

2 posted on 08/04/2012 7:11:46 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Former Fetus

Stay tuned; you are a watchman.

( a pastor I admire has said that even the prophets wished to have lived during these times.)


3 posted on 08/04/2012 7:41:06 PM PDT by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: pastorbillrandles

I mean no offense, but this stuff is positively unhinged. Gog and Magog are the Turks? If you can see that in Ezekiel, you can see anything. It’s nothing short of delusional.


4 posted on 08/04/2012 7:59:20 PM PDT by Gluteus Maximus
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To: Gluteus Maximus

Maybe not unhinged. Lydia was a powerful Anatolian kingdom whose greatest ruler was Gyges, who some scholars think was the source of ‘Gog’ (Semitic not having vowels). Not universally accepted, of course, but does point up the problem of identifying Biblical names.


5 posted on 08/04/2012 8:14:00 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Gluteus Maximus

No offense taken. I did not say that Gog was Turkish. I said Gog is a person, a leader of Anti God forces. I do believe Magog is Turkey. So is Meshech and Tubal. If these articles can provoke thought and study, praise God.


6 posted on 08/04/2012 8:49:20 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: jjotto

I have heard that. I think perhaps that Gog, is a title for a person, the development of Agag. In Balaam’s prophecy, the Star from Juda is said to be destined to defeat Agag.


7 posted on 08/04/2012 8:51:59 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles

One traditional Jewish understanding is that ‘gog u’magog’ has a numerical value of 70 for all the world’s 70 nations who will gather against Israel.

This will in fulfillment of Psalm 83 where Edom joins with Ishmael and others. “They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation...”


8 posted on 08/04/2012 9:07:19 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

Wow, thanks Jjotto, thats interesting! “Tha nations compassed me about, but in the name of the Lord I will destroy them...” Psalm 118


9 posted on 08/04/2012 9:10:35 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: Former Fetus

I’m not the kind of guy who sees an Antichrist candidate behind every tree, but I’ve been keeping an eye on a Turk named Adnan Oktar for a couple years now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEoUac6Mzyg The more I learn about him, the more he intrigues me, and not in a good way.


10 posted on 08/04/2012 9:17:40 PM PDT by Ackackadack
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To: All; Former Fetus; pastorbillrandles; Salvation
Dear Pastor and Former Fetus

This Week I woke up in my bed. I turn on the tv. It is stuck on this Tv frame Freeze. I always pray in some form or fashion. I always ask God for pertinent guidance. So every so often I have strange coincides happen. There are many over the years.

In January my Audio Bible came on Jeremiah 31 in a coffee cafe while talking to a baptist sister.

Now this frame was a frozen image on Sky Angel Tv on GEB network. I did not remember watching any thing with this message the night before.

Well I took a Picture with my phone.

Here it is:

Tv Freeze, Prophecy on End Times

This I believe is from God.

I could not turn this off from the remote. After the picture went through into the phone. I had to literally pull the plug from the receiver to bring it to normal.

Amazing! God is Moving while we are living in the end times.

11 posted on 08/04/2012 9:20:19 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: All; johngrace
Page Options Share on facebook Share on twitter Share on email Add parallel << < = = > >> Show resources Isaiah 17:1-2

New King James Version (NKJV) Proclamation Against Syria and Israel 17 The burden against Damascus. “Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city, And it will be a ruinous heap. 2 The cities of Aroer are forsaken;[a] They will be for flocks Which lie down, and no one will make them afraid.

12 posted on 08/04/2012 9:28:56 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

Joel 3:19
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 “Egypt shall be a desolation,
And Edom a desolate wilderness,
Because of violence against the people of Judah,
For they have shed innocent blood in their land.


13 posted on 08/04/2012 9:31:00 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: All

Daniel 11:42-43
New King James Version (NKJV)
42 He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 He shall have power over the treasures of gold and silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt; also the Libyans and Ethiopians shall follow at his heels.


14 posted on 08/04/2012 9:33:08 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: pastorbillrandles
Essentially agree with your interpretation of Gog & Magog. I have done much research in this area (earned Ph.D. in theology) and have written books on the subject. Was a missionary in the Middle East, and have traveled to Turkey.

Unfortunately many Christians and even "Bible prophecy teachers" still accept Hal Lindsey's old discredited view of Rosh = Russia; Meshech = Moscow; Beth Togarmah = East Germany etc. Lindsey, of course, tried to "fit" biblical prophecy into the current events of his day, in which the Soviet Union was the Public Enemy No. 1 bent on world domination.

My own view is that the place names are difficult to firmly establish, but the available evidence indicates origination in Turkey and Central Asia - Muslim powers all. While (unlike Turkey) Central Asia is currently not in a position to threaten Israel, with the region's growing oil wealth it is not inconceivable that these countries could in the future pose a real military threat.

15 posted on 08/04/2012 9:41:25 PM PDT by tjd1454
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To: tjd1454

thanks brother. What are the names of your books? (I am extremely interested in this subject).


16 posted on 08/04/2012 9:46:29 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: Gluteus Maximus; All
this stuff is positively unhinged. Gog and Magog are the Turks? If you can see that in Ezekiel, you can see anything. It’s nothing short of delusional.

You would be well-advised not to put your ignorance on display for all to see.

What exactly is "delusional" about this view? Do you know nothing of the historical evidence regarding Gog & Magog? Let's get you up to speed: For starters, Josephus identified God & Magog with the Scythians. Now, Josephus is not unassailable, but he's pretty solid. The Scythians, being nomadic tribes, are difficult to pin down geographically. However, there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate that they inhabited the regions around the Black Sea and to the East. Darius (the Great), for example, mounted an expedition against the Scythians in 513 BC, crossing the Danube in what is now western Turkey, directly adjacent to the Black Sea.

What kind of counter-evidence, pray tell, do you offer in support of your facile dismissal of the aforementioned view as "delusional"?

17 posted on 08/04/2012 9:58:00 PM PDT by tjd1454
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To: Gluteus Maximus

Unhinged and delusional are mighty strong words for someone offering no alternative, presumably correct imterpretation. Seems to me that you’ve obligated yourself to do so.


18 posted on 08/04/2012 10:01:23 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: pastorbillrandles
Unfortunately long out of print but perhaps could be tracked down on Amazon, etc. My most thorough treatment was written many years ago now when we lived in the Middle East:

The Gathering Storm (Chosen Books)

In this book, written before the Soviet Union fell apart - at a time when virtually every prophecy book mirrored Hal Lindsey's flawed interpretations - I attempted to show the fallacy of identifying Russia as Gog & Magog. Instead, I suggested that the available evidence pointed towards Islamic nations to the north of Israel, at the time a novel idea very much "out of the mainstream." It just goes to show how shallow much of Evangelical "scholarship" is when it comes to Eschatology. To a lesser extent, I also discussed this and similar themes in:

Mysteries of the Bible (Publications International)

Amazing Prophecies of the Bible (Publications International)

note: Publications International sounds like a "vanity press" but it is not.

As a matter of fact, after quite a few years hiatus I am currently working on a book which ties together my own experiences traveling in the region with a discussion of Gog and Magog and the End of the World. It is a very mysterious subject of great interest to myself, and hopefully many others.

Blessings to you!

19 posted on 08/04/2012 10:15:53 PM PDT by tjd1454
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To: RegulatorCountry
What's there to interpret? These versus are about the players on the ground back when these scriptures were written. They're not about Turkey. For Pete's sake. That's just silly. And it really disrespects the Bible, in my opinion. This sort of thing turns Scripture into a sort of i-Ching Book of Divination.

I read a book by, if memory serves, Hal Lindsay. This man actually said that insects in Revelation were Soviet helicopters!

It's so stupid words fail me.

This nonsense mocks Scripture.

Please stop it.

20 posted on 08/04/2012 10:35:07 PM PDT by Gluteus Maximus
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To: jjotto
Lydia was a powerful Anatolian kingdom whose greatest ruler was Gyges, who some scholars think was the source of ‘Gog’ (Semitic not having vowels). Not universally accepted, of course, but does point up the problem of identifying Biblical names.

And that's all very interesting. I like reading about ancient civilizations as much as the next guy. My point is that the passages cited in Ezekiel above have absolutely naught to do with the events on the ground today.

By what stretch of a fevered imagination could one believe that Ezekiel is talking about the Turks, who didn't even appear in the area until a couple thousand years later?

It's patently silly and not worthy of serious discussion.

21 posted on 08/04/2012 10:42:37 PM PDT by Gluteus Maximus
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To: Gluteus Maximus

Prophecy serves a purpose. There are those who endeavor to understand it. And then there are those who don’t, such as yourself I’m assuming.

The author of the thread provided ample historical background in support of his understanding. I note again that you’ve provided none.

Hooting derision while having nothing of substance to the contrary to say strikes me as unhinged.


22 posted on 08/04/2012 10:45:40 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry
Hooting derision while having nothing of substance to the contrary to say strikes me as unhinged.

Nonsense. Your statement only works if one assumes that reading Ezekiel as a sort rorschach card is a legitimate exercise to begin with.

It obviously is not. The Bible was not meant to be a deck of Tarot cards.

I'm not saying that this particular interpretation is wrong (although it's clearly ridiculous) so much as I'm saying that his entire approach to the Bible is emotionally childish and intellectually bankrupt.

23 posted on 08/04/2012 10:53:59 PM PDT by Gluteus Maximus
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To: Gluteus Maximus

You reject as childish that Ezekiel was a prophet and that the Book of Ezekiel contains prophecy? You reject a great deal more than you seem to realize if so.


24 posted on 08/04/2012 11:02:43 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Gluteus Maximus

I’m not saying that this particular interpretation is wrong (although it’s clearly ridiculous) so much as I’m saying that his entire approach to the Bible is emotionally childish and intellectually bankrupt.


I get completely lost when it comes to all of the names mentioned in the latter day invasion of Israel but have always assumed that Togarmah refereed to Turkey.

But i did not realize that Turkey played such a big part in it, but if all of the Churches mentioned in Pauls writings were actually in Turkey then it does make a lot of sense in my mind that it may be more important than i thought.

So i was wondering what you think is ridiculous, childish and intellectually bankrupt about it.


I’m not saying that this particular interpretation is wrong

If i thought something was ridiculous, childish and intellectually bankrupt i would think it was wrong.

I am always in favor of hearing different views as long as they come from the Bible, lets hear yours.


25 posted on 08/05/2012 4:00:42 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: tjd1454

Thanks brother- give me a “heads up” when you book is available, would you?


26 posted on 08/05/2012 5:37:06 AM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: Gluteus Maximus

I notice that you do not demean and insult every bit of nonsensical exegesis on the Religion Forum (which is mainly what the Religion Forum consists of). I am wondering why you choose to share your superior insight here.

Reading current events into Jewish prophets is a traditional Christian practice, no more or less an exercise in fevered imagination than Christianity itself.


27 posted on 08/05/2012 6:11:59 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: RegulatorCountry
You reject as childish that Ezekiel was a prophet and that the Book of Ezekiel contains prophecy?

No. It's just that he was obviously prophesying about his own times. Ezekiel lived about 2,600 years ago. The Turkish people didn't even exist then. The Turks first made their appearance on the historical stage about a thousand years ago. Turning Gog and Magog or whatever from 2600 years ago into the Turkish nation of today is indeed childish and intellectually bankrupt.

28 posted on 08/05/2012 8:01:33 AM PDT by Gluteus Maximus
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To: jjotto
I am wondering why you choose to share your superior insight here.

Because I just happened to read this one out of curiosity. I normally avoid this sort of thing.

Reading current events into Jewish prophets is a traditional Christian practice, no more or less an exercise in fevered imagination than Christianity itself.

That's something of an exaggeration. Sure, people were always tempted to use the Bible as a book of divination, but this "End Times" nonsense really started in the 19th century with charlatans like Darby and Miller.

29 posted on 08/05/2012 8:05:50 AM PDT by Gluteus Maximus
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To: pastorbillrandles
He-eey Bill. Found 'em.

Just being curios, first went to see if Amazon had a wish list. They do, but they say not for out-of-print. Maybe that should be more like out-of-circulation? Or...something.

So I went looking, found the three, and got the go ahead privately to list them.

I do hope I don't regret it [publishing the links here] or have it become a problem.. The books though, do look interesting;


30 posted on 08/05/2012 3:54:23 PM PDT by BlueDragon
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To: BlueDragon

Thanks BD I agree, they look interesting, I am going to have to get at least one of these-


31 posted on 08/05/2012 4:12:51 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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