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Has the Tenor of Christianity Changed Since the Founding? - [Vanity]
8/5/12 | dagogo redux

Posted on 08/05/2012 8:53:59 AM PDT by dagogo redux

If I understand correctly, the ObamaCare Mandate began to take effect on the Catholic Church a few days ago. I only knew this because my wife was listening to EWTN on the car radio - otherwise, it seems not to have made any stir nor garnered any headlines, and was mentioned only in passing even on that station.

Although America has been a nation of amazing strength, integrity and vitality, founded by Christians of great fervor who largely came to this land seeking freedom of religion, and although it is still a largely Christian nation, it is now surrendering, without a real fight, that precious religious freedom to the same sorts of tyrants it fought several centuries ago.

When I read religious ideas found in the words of the Founders, or read the sermons and hymns from past centuries, their expressions of faith sound more foreign to my modern ear than their non-religious expressions. By comparison, the Christianity I see around me currently seems very meek, timid, passive and soft, fully incapable of mounting the sorts of defensive and offensive efforts that our forefathers marshaled against the tyrants, traitors, enemies and invaders of their times.

Does the current expression of Christianity in this country have - woven into it - a different approach to defending our liberties than the Christianity of the Founders?

I am reminded of Gibbon’s view that the decline and fall of the Roman empire was at least partly an outgrowth of the rise of Christianity, who’s tenets, he believed, sapped the more stern and masculine Roman character that had brought heightened civilization and peace to such vast regions. I find myself wondering, with the barbarians inside the gates now and the sacking well underway, if the more stern and masculine “Old Testament Christianity” of the Founders was perhaps more practically suited to secure and preserve the kind of country they founded, compared to the current variety.

I’m curious to hear especially from those who have knowledge of the history of religion in this country, and who have studied source material related to that. Thanks.

[My question, BTW, is a historical and political one, not a question of faith or dogma. Not being Christian, I have no dog in any such religious fights, but am simply curious about this historical question as I look around me, and compare what I see and hear with what I read from the past.]


TOPICS: Activism
KEYWORDS: belongsinreligion; christian; christianity; faithandphilosophy; history; religion; thesopranos; thethreetenors; vanity

1 posted on 08/05/2012 8:54:10 AM PDT by dagogo redux
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To: dagogo redux

The tenor has changed. He is now a soprano.


2 posted on 08/05/2012 9:04:46 AM PDT by married21 (As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.)
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To: dagogo redux
...if the more stern and masculine “Old Testament Christianity” of the Founders was perhaps more practically suited to secure and preserve the kind of country they founded, compared to the current variety.

I guess I would make two points. First, although most of our founders were Christian, the range of beliefs they had toward it was varied. While you did have many who were 'that old time religion' as we may describe it today, many others like Jefferson and Paine were very much products of the 'Age of Reason'.

What you did have, however, was a culture that didn't separate their faith from their daily life. That is where the difference is. They didn't just show up on Sunday morning then stop living it that afternoon. Their faith was a part of their identity. Not a robe to be put on and tossed off depending on the 'event'.

The one criticism (if you can call it that) I saw from Wednesday's CFA 'buycott' was that you don't see people get together like that to help at soup kitchens or for a suffering neighbor. Only when it is a 'event'. During the founder's day, if a neighbor's barn burned down, the entire community got together (of their free will) and helped. You would see CFA type events to help your neighbor all the time- even with no media around.(not in the numbers obviously but only due to logistic issues).

3 posted on 08/05/2012 9:08:44 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: dagogo redux

If I recall, Gibbons was actually a Catholic, but unlike scholarship up until his time, he treated Christianity as a purely historical event, not as a divinely inspired, or the story of God’s actions upon mankind.

You can see from the Renaissance onwards, among academics renewed interest and respect for the Pagan Gods of the Romans, not as a revival of the pagan religion, but more as an echo from history of what was a formerly great Empire. I believe that is where Gibbons fits in.

As for the role of Christianity - it did not cause the decline of the Roman Empire, rather it filled a vacuum in what was a rapidly decaying Roman economy and society. Imagine the chaos of the 3rd century. A succession of corrupt Emperors, all dying by intrigue and assassination. Wars and revolts inside and outside the empire. A rapidly devaluing currency. Being a Roman Citizen became a liability, as commoners forced into serfdom and poverty to support a corrupt, over-spending Govt. Moreover we know that prostitution, homosexuality, kidnapping and especially abortion were rife inside society at that time.

Is it no wonder that the stability and hope that Christianity offered would spread amongst that chaos?


4 posted on 08/05/2012 9:21:21 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: PGR88

“Is it no wonder that the stability and hope that Christianity offered would spread amongst that chaos?”

I agree, and yet it does not seem to be playing that role as we head on our current, similar trajectory.


5 posted on 08/05/2012 9:42:55 AM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: dagogo redux

See Tea Party for one example.

Go to lunch at Chick Fil A for another...

Alive and well.


6 posted on 08/05/2012 9:49:47 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: dagogo redux

Yes I’d say... many worship the bible or the church or saints or ritual or something else.. distracted from “the God”..

“They” didn’t even call themselves “christians” others did..
Not that many had bibles(couldn’t read) or churches or rituals.. they didn’t..

Could have had something to do with even being a so-called christian which in many many places was ILLEGAL...
Or if not illegal was harshly frown upon... by government and society at large..

In the beginning being a “christian” was not about what you said, it was about what you DID... or DID NOT do..
It was not an ideology it was a lifestyle... quietly assumed not argued...

A lifestyle not lead by a manual(bible) or church(organization) but by the Holy Spirit who was REAL...
Not that anybody even had bibles even if they could read or churches which made them easy to persecute....

Much has changed.. that is for most I know.. but not everybody..
Some pray to the ceiling and others pray to a real God(Holy Spirit)..
WHatever that/he/it.... is..

I like the bible verse.. I Cor 2;9.. “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”

After all who is it that can put in a bag an almost indefinable God that made (it is told) a Universe..

The very concept is awesome.. and worthy of consideration..


7 posted on 08/05/2012 9:58:00 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: dagogo redux
I agree, and yet it does not seem to be playing that role as we head on our current, similar trajectory.

I have thought the same thing. I believe we are closer to the apogee than not. Americans have not yet experienced the true misery of war, economic decline, and poverty. Its still a long way down yet.

8 posted on 08/05/2012 9:58:22 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: hosepipe; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Whosoever

A gift to believers ONLY- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foUrBztgzZA

Caution: if you don’t believe avoid this post..


9 posted on 08/05/2012 10:07:02 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: sauropod

mark


10 posted on 08/05/2012 10:20:14 AM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: dagogo redux

The difference is that the federal government is sticking its nose into states and church business.

Get the feds out, and everyone is strong.


11 posted on 08/05/2012 10:34:39 AM PDT by donna ("...gay couples raising kids. That's the American way..." -Mitt Romney, 2007)
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To: dagogo redux
Yours are some of the most perceptive questions posed recently on these pages; however, they are the ones each of us should be exploring and sharing with others.

Several years ago, I came across an amazing 1872 history of the principles and ideas which gave birth to America's founding.

By his notes in the Preface, the writer had a long history of writing and publishing on America's historical events, but the work was, in his own words, his attempt "to form in my mind a picture of the many streams that met and united in the current which terminated in the broad expanse of a nation." The historian is Richard Frothingham, and his outstanding volume is entitled, "Rise of the Republic of the United States," and it can be read on line.

This 600+-page history traces the ideas which gave birth to the American founding. Throughout, Richard Frothingham, the historian, develops the idea that it is "the Christian idea of man" which allowed the philosophy underlying the Declaration of Independence and Constitution to become a reality--an idea which recognizes the individual and the Source of his/her "Creator"-endowed life, liberty and law.

A more recent "find" was more surprising and can be read online also. the "Library of Congress - Historical Collections" -

"African-American Pamphlets from the Daniel A. P. Murray Collection," 1820-1920; American Memory, Library of Congress

Washington, DC,

CENTENNIAL Thanksgiving Sermon, DELIVERED BY REV. B. W. ARNETT, B. D., AT ST. PAUL A. M. E. CHURCH, URBANA, OHIO 1876

In this remarkable Sermon on the anniversary of Independence, Rev. Benjamin W. Arnett traces the histories of various forms of government throughout history, as well as that of the ideas underlying that of America's founding and subsequent development.

Any who read that work today will discover a document worth studying, including his analysis in the portion beginning on P. 47 of what must surely have been the beginnings of what has, today, become the so-called "progressive" movement to "change" America.

12 posted on 08/05/2012 10:41:24 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: dagogo redux; All
One other suggestion for searchers for truth on America's founding documents, writings, and speeches, is David Barton's collection at Wallbuilders.
13 posted on 08/05/2012 10:46:40 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: dagogo redux

“Has the Tenor of Christianity Changed Since the Founding?”

On at least the following two points, the way in which people who consider themselves to be “Christian” practice their religion, yes and by quite a bit:

1) At our founding many people took the Fourth Commandment seriously and almost all business and commerce ceased for the full day. In my own lifetime my own state had “Blue Laws” that prohibited many stores from being open and indeed one vestige remains- auto dealers are forbidden by law from being open on Sunday. If it is observed at all, the Sabbath day of rest has become the day when an hour or so is spent getting a drive-by sermon after which its back home for mowing the law or off to the mall for urban foraging.

2) Marriage has become optional despite strong language in places like Ephesians 5:1-7 to the contrary. Just a few months ago a co-worker who is (it appears) a practicing Catholic got married to his fiance with whom he had been living for quite a while. Many churches in my area have co-habiting congregants despite Paul’s warning in 1 Corinthians 5.

At some point Jesus says if you aren’t interested in obeying my Commandments, I’m not as interested in you as you may think that I am.


14 posted on 08/05/2012 10:54:58 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: mnehring
"....you don't see people get together like that to help at soup kitchens or for a suffering neighbor. Only when it is a 'event'."

I'm seeing this statement thrown around a lot these days and I do not believe that it's true. Christians are told by Jesus not to do good in order to be seen. We are told to not even tell anyone when we do a good deed. Christians every day are helping their neighbors. I know that the ones in my area do. When a family gets burned out, the churches jump to the task of providing a place for them to live and all the necessary things they may need to keep house. They send out the family members sizes and we provide clothes for them. When there is a disaster anywhere in the world, we start packing buckets with cleaning equipment, or whatever is needed. We send them out by truckloads.

We watch out for our elderly every day. We provide a clean apt., food and medicine for the indigent in our town. I know this. We don't do these things to be seen or to be thanked. We do it because we are Christians. That is why people get the false perception that Christians are not doing anything for the poor. It's a misunderstanding of Christians and our mandate from God.

15 posted on 08/05/2012 10:55:20 AM PDT by WVNan ("Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy." - Winston)
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To: dagogo redux
The Roman empire fell apart out of its own corruption. Local commanders and governors simply stopped taking orders from a faraway Rome, since they weren't really getting any help from there anyway.

That, and the mercenaries Rome hired at some point became the political force to be reckoned with, and simply stopped taking orders.

Christianity is what took Roman corruption and tribal barbarism and built upon its ruins. Christians are still out there but they have had the luxury of seeing themselves as culturally mainstream. If you see America as a Christian nation, you may think you've fulfilled your Christian duty by being a good American.

Put another way, if you get your moral values from the culture, you have no way of seeing that you're going off the rails. At a certain point, though, there are enough alarm bells that you are forced to wake up from your slumber or lose it all. Christians and non-Christians who have nevertheless been shaped by a partially christianized culture may fail to see the problem for a while if they are taking their queues from the surrounding culture. But for some people as things get worse they learn to dig deep and they find their spines.

It is God who will bring us through this. Christians will either find their spines, find their courage, or they will be swept away as we have already seen. Whole churches have lost their way, but others are emerging into the vacuum. And their message is being acted on by people who may not see themselves as religious but who find themselves moved to act on principle and defend that principle.

For all its flaws and hypocrisies, the America in which Christian values are mainstream is the America that rose to be the envy of the world. The America that is currently abandoning its Christian faith and values is an America that is a miserable reflection of what it could be and historically aspired to be. Christians need to find their faith and spines anew; non-Christians who fight at our side need to learn to recognize the divine source of the principles they hold dear. I think you'll find that a lot of us are waking up and learning to look up. And strapping on our armor.

16 posted on 08/05/2012 11:33:38 AM PDT by marron
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To: PGR88

Gibbon was a Catholic only for a short while at age 16. His anti-Catholic father put a stop to that by lodging him with a Presbyterian minister in Switzerland for some time. By the end of that time, Gibbon had officially abandoned the Catholic faith - thereby restoring his civil rights under anti-Catholic English law - and had concluded he could never believe in any organized religion at all. He was akin to a deist with a vague notion about the church.

Ironically, he got the idea for Decline and Fall while listening to Franscican Frians sing vespers in Rome several years after abandoning the faith.

Gibbon is still influencing our culture - always negatively - even today: http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2010/06/the-perniciously-persistent-myths-of-hypatia-and-the-great-library


17 posted on 08/05/2012 11:50:56 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: marron
The Roman empire fell apart out of its own corruption.

The Romans' fatal error was that they outsourced their own national defense to foreigners. The "hired guns" eventually realized that it was easier to just attack their employers & take what they wanted.

18 posted on 08/05/2012 12:49:14 PM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion

Exactly. At some point the german commander of Rome’s legions simply crowned himself king. I don’t think they saw it as the “fall” of the Roman Empire, it was just politics. Its only in retrospect that we see it that way.


19 posted on 08/05/2012 1:37:10 PM PDT by marron
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To: dagogo redux
Where have you been? You write that you had not heard anything about this, and yet, when it all started, I kept a link file. Did you know that 100 percent of the Catholic Bishops came out against Obamacare, and that there are over 40 lawsuits against Obama?

Here are those links so you can catch up! Just read the ones that interest you.


Catholic business owners score win against ObamaCare mandate
Catholic business owners score win against ObamaCare mandate
First Plaintiff Beats Obama HHS-Abortion Mandate in Court (Breaking News!)
University kills insurance plan for students over Obamacare provisions
National Catholic Register on HHS Mandate - This Shall Not Stand!
Evangelical heavyweight sues: Wheaton College files 24th lawsuit against HHS mandate
Obama defends HHS mandate: ‘not fair’ that Catholics won’t fund birth control
Law Prof at Catholic College Says Bishops Crossing Church/State Line, Suggests Penalties
Some Lutherans Back Catholic Position on Contraceptive Mandate
Obama defends HHS mandate: ‘not fair’ that Catholics won’t fund birth control
Obama defends HHS mandate: ‘not fair’ that Catholics won’t fund birth control
Government cannot take away true freedom, Archbishop Chaput teaches
Repair my house: renewing the roots of religious liberty
Bishops Take on Soros
USCCB responds to group funded by George Soros which issued talking points ...
New Video: HHS Mandate and Religious Liberty

"Open Letter on Religious Freedom" (Religious leaders protest HHS mandate)
Michele Bachmann: Washington is taking notice of HHS mandate backlash (exclusive) Religious Freedom Reaffirmed; US Bishops Unanimous
Catholic Health Association reverses course on mandate accommodation
Catholic Bishops Gather With Focus on Obama Birth-Control Measure
Bishops, That is a Pretty Nice Tax Exemption You Have There. Wouldn’t Want Anything Bad ...
Florida Bishop Leads Opposition to Obamacare Mandate
Pelosi: Catholic Archdioceses Were Not ‘Speaking’ for Catholic Church When They Sued Administration
The HHS Mandate and Wily Providence
Religious liberty group launches massive HHS mandate site
NY Times Scolds Catholics, Calls HHS Mandate Lawsuits a “Stunt”
NY Times Editorial: Catholic Lawsuits Just "a Dramatic Stunt"
Archbishop: Networks 'missed the boat' on coverage of church's ObamaCare lawsuits
Religious freedom vs. Obamacare
U.S. Bishops Prepare Catholics for Civil Disobedience: ‘We May Need to Witness to the Truth by...’
On the Mandate, a Dangerous Crack in the Bishops' United Front
Surprise! MSM Ignoring Catholic Lawsuits against Government
Protecting Our Catholic Conscience in The Public Square
Notre Dame: Good News and Bad News
Legatus Files Federal Lawsuit Challenging the HHS Mandate

Boston Archdiocese Bails on Religious Freedom Lawsuit
Evangelicals respond to Catholic lawsuits: ‘We are all Catholic now’
Solidarity requires individual involvement, not state programs, Pope says
Catholic Caucus: 43 Catholic organizations [Notre Dame+] sue Obama over HHS
Cardinal Dolan, Cardinal Wuerl, Notre Dame, 40+ Catholic Organizations--Sue Obama
Profs at Jesuit universities lash out at bishops for opposing HHS mandate, gay ‘marriage’
The Declaration of Religious Independence
Catholic Bishops Call For Two Weeks of Action Against Obama
Oakland Bishop: Abortion Next Mandated Health Benefit?
Catholic Bishops Call For Two Weeks of Action Against Obama
Catholic Bishops Call For Two Weeks of Action Against Obama
Protest by Catholic activists may hamper Obama reelection bid (Organize! Mobilize! Go!)
Protest by Catholic activists may hamper Obama reelection bid
Catholic Bishops Take on Obama
[Connecticut] Bishops: Don't Make Catholic Hospitals Perform Abortions
Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois Bishop Daniel Jenky
Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop Jenky
Bishop Calls for ‘Heroic Catholicism,’ Rips Obama’s ‘Radical Pro-Abortion Agenda’
Bishops tell Catholics to disobey 'unjust laws
Bishops warned: Obama will seize assets, only proper response is "Courageous Defiance"

The Profound, Unapologetic and Timely Reflections of Archbishop Chaput [Catholics in Public Life]
Vatican Cardinal: If Catholic employers provide contraceptive coverage they cooperate in sin
Catholics Urged to Imitate St. Thomas More in Contraception Battle
Cardinal Dolan criticizes Obama contraception policy as ‘radical intrusion' (still)
Calling for Calm (Spokane's bishop wants to talk hot topics,...)
Gvmt minister (Canada) rebukes bishops on Catholic sexual teaching: ‘You’re not allowed to do that anymore!’
Pres. Obama invokes “social Darwinism”. Mr. President, look in the mirror.
WaPo Blog Says Jesus Would Support Obamacare
We Will NOT Render Unto Caesar What Belongs to God! [Archbishop Robert Carlson]
Dolan describes Obama’s about-face on contraception mandate>
(NY Cardinal) Dolan: ‘We Can’t Back Down’ (Appears on the O'Reilly Factor)
Obamacare Mandate in Deep Trouble
ACTION ITEM ALERT! Pres. Obama, through a minion, attacks Catholic chaplains once again
Contraception mandate violates federal law, say legal experts
Virginia AG: If Obama's Mandate Stands, the Gov't ‘Can Order You To Do Anything’
What the media doesn’t want you to know: Americans hate the HHS mandate
As Health Care Law’s Trial Approaches, Two-Thirds Say Ditch Individual Mandate
Catholic Bishops Declare Obama's 'Unjust and Illegal Mandate' 'A Violation of Personal Civil Rights'
Health-Care Challenge Evokes Roosevelt New Deal High Court Clash

First Secular Business Sues Over HHS Mandate
Evangelical leaders urged to mobilize against administration contraception policy
Obama Admin Widens Abortifacient Birth Control Mandate to College Students
Do They Know Who They’re Messing With? (Obama Administration vs. the Catholic Church?)
Religious Freedom and Protecting Healthcare for Women and Children
U.S. Catholic bishops pressured Komen breast cancer charity over Planned Parenthood
New York Times accused of Catholic bashing, double standard on religion
Liberal Catholics Spooked by United Bishops for Religious Freedom
US Bishops Dig-in on Threats Against Religious Liberty: USCCB Statement on HHS Mandate
US Bishops Decry ‘Illegal and Unjust’ HHS Mandate, Call for Prayer and Penance
President Obama Perplexed by 'War on Religion' Charges
No Compromise
BISHOPS DON’T BUDGE ON RELIGIOUS LIBERTY (Catholic Caucus)
Bishops Consider Broader Focus in Birth-Control Fight
Bishop [Lori] Hopes to Restart White House Contraception Talks
Obama Admin Finalizes Rules: $1 Abortions in ObamaCare
Obama's HHS mandate will destroy the Little Sisters of the Poor's ministry to the elderly
Amish, Ok. Catholics, No. (HHS Mandate)
Gloria Purvis: Opposing the Contraception Mandate
Ave Maria University Files Lawsuit Against Obama Administration
Obama’s Contraception Spin Machine (Administration misreads the Catholic Church yet again)
Obama the Apostate (Reckoning with the Catholic Church)

Dolan: White House invoked support of “enlightened” Catholics in refusing to budge on mandate
Deadly health risks for women: The unspoken side of the Obama birth control mandate
HHS mandate threatens Little Sisters of the Poor elder care
The Noise-to-Signal Ratio at the USCCB
Catholic Missionary Suing Government Willing to Risk Health (Crohn's) Over HHS Mandate
Cardinal Dolan: White House Lectured My USCCB Staff On How to Interpret Catholic Teaching
Obama Admin lectures Card. Dolan and USCCB. Dolan responds. (Fr Z Fisking of Article)
HHS mandate could close 13 percent of the nation’s hospitals
Bishop Lori rips America editorial on HHS mandate Priest warns Obama: Better knock the Catholic Church out now - you’ve awakened the giant
Irony - Bar Boots Denver Bishop giving private talk on threats to religious liberty
Top U.S. Bishop to All Bishops: ‘We Did Not Ask for This Fight, But We Will Not Run From It’
Obama Risks $100 Billion If Catholic Hospitals Close
Catholic bishops exhort faithful to oppose Obamacare in a Sunday message
Congress Told HHS Mandate Fines Could Total $620,000
Cardinal Dolan blasts White House contraception plan as 'freedom of religion battle'
The Coming Persecution (a priest's projection on what is to come if Obama re-elected)
The HHS Mandate: Cardinal George and the Bishops Are Fighting the Last War (Excellent Analysis)
Cardinal Dolan indicates possible legal actions; rebuffs "cave-in" Catholics
From Cardinal Dolan: “We Have to be Realistic and Prepare for Tough Times…”

Biden: We 'Screwed up' Contraception Mandate
Priest To Planned Parenthood: ‘Here Comes The Catholic Church’
The Catholic Diaspora and the Tragedy of Liberal Catholicism
A sermon explaining what Pres. Obama is doing.
Holder: 1st Amendment Allows Gov't to Force Catholics to Buy Sterilizat-Contracept-Abortn Insurance
Sebelius Excludes Bishops From Obamacare Mandate Compromise Talks
On "Things Not Subject to Human Government"
Church Could Be Forced To 'Give Up' Public Work, Cardinal George Warns
Cardinal George: No Catholic Hospitals in 2 Years Unless HHS Mandate is Rescinded
The Way Freedom of Religion Should Work
Religious Liberty Homily
Obama Faces More Lawsuits Over Pro-Abortion HHS Mandate
Pope Benedict Defends Religious Liberty
The Sisters and Universal Health Care: Forgetting What Religion Is
Time Magazine Op-Ed: Perhaps “Some Time in Jail” for Catholic Bishops Defending Religious Liberty
Baptist College Sues Over Contraceptive Mandate
Government Assault May Have Just Begun, Cardinal Dolan Warns
Responding to Your Questions for MORE! (Eblast from Grace Before Meals priest)
Seven states, Catholic plaintiffs file largest lawsuit against HHS mandate
Catholic CEO calls mandate compromise 'divide and conquer' strategy

Catholic Bishop's Prez: Our Rights Don’t Depend on Obama
Obama's defense of religion {Mega BARF-Alert - talk about spin...}
Contraception and the Culture War [Deepening Catholic-Evangelical Relationship]
Cardinal Timothy Dolan issues strongest statement yet against the HHS mandate
Clergy Declare State of Emergency for Churches Over Obama Demands
Father, We're Ready for that Homily on Contraception Now
Contraception, Against Conscience [Why EWTN Will Not Comply With Obama's Mandate]
Bishops Decry Obama birth Control Plan, Yet Catholic Hospitals Report Sterilizations
The Catholic Betrayal of Religious Freedom
Obama Responds to Belmont Abbey Lawsuit. Epic Fail.
Catholic Charities Insists it has not Endorsed HHS Mandate
Chaput emerging as a warrior-bishop
Archbishop Chaput: It’s not a ‘compromise,’ and it needs to be rescinded
Pro-Abortion Fingerprints on HHS Mandate
Dem (Congressman) Scolds Bishop (at House Oversight hearin)
Evangelicals & Catholics Together: In Defense of Religious Freedom (vs. Islam, Secularism)
Catholic priest, pro-life activists arrested outside White House protesting Obama mandate
Obama Contradicted: HHS Banned Consideration of ‘Cost Effectiveness’ in Developing Contraception
BREAKING: Every Single Bishop Has Condemned the Obama/HHS Mandate!
Pro-life nuns: We’re not exempt - Obama mandate would force us ‘to pay for abortion-inducing drugs’

Contraception ruling: Democrats accuse clergy of complicity with GOP at hearing
Catholic League on Sebelius’s admission before a Senate committee
Voris: Obama Able to Neutralize Catholic Resistance Thanks to Bishops’ Past Complicity
Abortion, Contraception and the Church Fathers (Catholic teaching unchanged for 2000 yrs)
Head of U.S. bishops: Obama compromise on mandate ‘a hill of beans’; opposition intensifies
USCCB President: 'Harder and Harder' to Accept Obama's Word
White House Criticizes Bishops, Trumpets Support from CHA, Catholic Charities
Political Science 101: how the White House snookered the USCCB on the 'compromise'
What Did CHA's Carol Keehan Know and When Did She Know It?
Pope Shares Remarks on American Culture with Bishops; Issues Call to Laity By: Msgr. Charles Pope
USCCB President says Obama offered next to nothing; expresses disappointment with Sr. Keehan
Evangelical Leaders Call for Civil Disobedience Against U.S. Government
Liberal Jews Speak Against HHS Mandate
Top nun who supported Obama mandate thanks pro-choice group in private e-mail
Catholic Health Association collaboration with Obama admin on mandate a ‘scandal’: Catholic leader
Obama's revised HHS mandate won't solve problems, USCCB president says
Fr. Frank Pavone: No compromise - the mandate has to go, period
Time To Admit It: The Church Has Always Been Right On Birth Control
Culture with Local Bishops and Issues a Call to the Laity [Ecumenical]
Bishops Reject Obama's 'Accommodation' - President's political hemorrhaging to continue.

HHS Mandate - Nothing Has Changed (Donald Cardinal Weurl)
Obama Chief of Staff: New Pro-Abortion Mandate Here to Stay
WH: We Are Done Negotiating With Catholics
Opponents launch new White House petition rejecting Obama rewrite of birth control mandate
Did the Leaders of the Catholic Church Make a Deal with the Redistributionist Devil?
Archbishop Chaput: HHS mandate insulting and dangerous
Cardinal-Designate Dolan no longer trusts Obama
American Catholicism’s Pact With the Devil
Notre Dame Faculty to Obama: ‘This Is a Grave Violation of Religious Freedom and Cannot Stand’
White House: No More Compromise on Contraception
Obama's anti-religious implosion
Lew: Obama's latest stance on birth-control mandate final, puts issue to rest (CAPTION)
Pat Buchanan: 'Obama is trampling on God's turf' (Video)
W.H. official: Contraceptive rule stands
Obama chief of staff: No more compromise, contraceptive rule is done deal
Bishops Reject White House’s New Plan on Contraception (Obama continues his "War On Religion")
Faith/Pro-Life Leaders to Challenge Mandate by Praying and Risking Arrest in Front of the WH
Catholic Bishops: Don't Revise, Rescind
Obama's contempt for the Constitution
How the Catholic Church Became Cool Overnight

Chuck Colson Reacts to Obama’s “Compromise” on Required Abortion Care for Church Employees
US Bishops: Obama's 'Compromise' Has No Clear Protection...(Needless Government Intrusion)
Protests Continue Over Insurance for Contraception, Abortifacients (Feds Under Increasing Pressure
Bishops to Obama: No dice
Paul VI: “danger of this power passing into the hands of those public authorities ...”
Michael Moore Goes On Anti-Catholic Twitter Rant, Distorts Contraception Debate
Religious controversy burns Obama again (the rookie Hussein is in WAY over his pay grade)
Another Catholic college vows it will ‘not violate conscience’ on Obama mandate
Lutherans join chorus of voices slamming HHS contraceptive mandate
The Obama HHS 'Compromise' Switches the Tiger for the Lion (Not all Catholics buying Obama's bull)
Hannity on now with Priests, Pastors and Rabbis. Please watch
EDITORIAL: Obama’s free abortion pills
U.S. bishops ‘express concerns’ about Obama mandate ‘accommodation’
What Compromise? This Policy Leaves Religious Liberty in Peril and Planned Parenthood Smiling (Albert Mohler Opinion)
Bishops Renew Call To Legislative Action On Religious Liberty
Southern Baptist leader: Obama gave Christians ‘the dismissive back’ of his hand
Obama's Act of Tyranny
Bishops Were Prepared for Battle Over Birth Control Coverage
'Accounting gimmick' -- Obama compromise still threatens religious liberty, leaders say
Bishops ‘concerned’ over reworded mandate; other Catholic leaders slam as ‘insult to injury’
Obama Bows to Pressure, but His Religious 'Accommodation' Even Worse

Don't Be Deceived! Evil Obama Policy Now Even MORE Evil!
Obama’s Contraceptive 'Compromise' Doesn't Pass the Smell Test ("It doesn't change a thing")
Compromise or Accommodation, it’s still unacceptable. (updated from Catholic Vote)
Pres. Obama’s “Plan B” compromise, Sr. Keehan, and the Magisterium of Nuns
Land Says Obama Mandate Most Anti-Catholic Government Action in 150 Years
Motive, Means and Opportunity: Obama’s Assault on Catholics
(Exempt Catholics) Joe Biden, Bill Daley warned of contraceptive backlash
(Tim) Thomas makes second political statement (Stands With Catholics)
Southern Baptist leader: If Obama mandate isn’t changed, Christians will go to jail
Over 150 congressional leaders demand repeal of HHS mandate
Boehner vows to overturn Obama’s birth control coverage rule
Boehner: Congress to overturn birth control policy if Obama does not reverse course
O'Brien says Archdiocese of Baltimore won't offer birth control coverage
Archbishop of San Francisco says Obama ruling strikes at religious freedom
How Obama Lost the Catholic Vote
‘I am going to stick with fellow Catholics’ in Pres. Obama’s war on Catholics. Wherein Fr. Z rants.
Unholy War
Six Things Everyone Should Know about the HHS Mandate
Santorum: Obama Hostile to Christians
Understanding Oppostion to the HHS Mandate (Part 1): Why the Church Won’t Pay for Contracept

The Bishops Chickens Coming Home to Roost.
65 Orthodox Church bishops call on Obama to ‘rescind’ the ‘unjust’ contraception mandate
Doug Kmiec Writes Obama: 'Friendship Will Not Permit Me to Disregard Duty to Faith and Country'
Catholic Outcry Over Obama Administration's Birth Control Decision Could Factor In Presidential Race
Standing with the Bishops [Catholic Caucus]
Updated: *167* Bishops (More Than 90% of Dioceses) Have Spoken Out Against Obama/HHS Mandate
Outrage!… Military Tells Chaplains What They Can and Can’t Say About HHS/ObamaAssault on Religion
Updated: *153* Bishops (Over 80% of Dioceses) Have Spoken Out Against Obama/HHS Mandate
href="http://www.sundayscripturestudy.com/this_week.html">An Affront Catholics Agree On [Liberal and Conservative Catholics Against Obama Mandate]

Army Silenced Chaplains Last Sunday
Catholic Military Archdiocese & Chaplains interfered with last Sunday by Pres. Obama’s Admin
The Anti-Catholic President v. the Catholic Bishops
Sen. Rubio introduces bill to reverse Obama birth control mandate
Churches balk at birth control rule - Catholics won’t comply, Bishop Kevin Rhoades says
Protestants and Jews declare to White House: We stand with Catholics
Checking the Air Outside [Bp. Zubik's follow up to Obama's “To Hell with You”]
Mohler [Southern Baptist] Says Insurance Mandate Not Just 'Catholic' Issue
An Open Letter to President Barack Obama Concerning Recent Tyranny (With Pictures!)
Lincoln bishop: prepare for 'suffering' under HHS mandate
Bishop David Zubik confronts Obama
Obama’s ‘war on the church’

Pope hits out at 'radical secularism'
‘We Will Not Comply’: Catholic Leaders Distribute Letter Slamming Obama Admin Contraceptive Mandate
‘We Will Not Comply’: Catholic Leaders Distribute Letter Slamming Obama Admin Contraceptive Mandate
Bruskewitz: Fight Insurance Ruling [Sebelius a "bitter, fallen away Catholic"]
Letter from Archbishop John G. Vlazny on the matter of freedom of conscience and decisions by HHS
Bishop Olmsted's Letter to Catholics [Catholic Caucus]
Liberty for the Amish & Quakers but not Catholics. . .
Contraception mandate prompts Peoria bishop to instate St. Michael Prayer (Catholic Caucus)
Phoenix bishop (Olmstead): defy feds on birth control
A letter from Archbishop Dennis M. Schnurr concerning HHS edict
Speak honestly: abortion is ‘the killing of tiny human beings in the womb’ – Denver bishop
Bishop [Daniel Jenky] Blasts Secularist Intolerance, Calls For ‘Assertive Action’ to Defend Church
(Pittsburgh Bishop Zubik comments:) HHS delays rule on contraceptive coverage
Dolan: Natural law, not religious preference, dictates all life sacred
Religious leaders blast HHS over contraception mandate
Mandated Contraception, Sterilization: Caesar Demands Church Violate Conscience
OBAMA’S CONTEMPT FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY (mandates coverage of sterilization & contraception)
Implications of Obama Admin move to force Cath hospitals to provide contraception and sterilizations
Catholic doctors’ group launches petition against contraception mandate
Contraception mandate tramples religious freedom, US bishops say

20 posted on 08/05/2012 1:38:28 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: dagogo redux
Then there was a Fortnight for Freedom. (Two weeks of prayer instigated by the Catholic Church, but joined by other denominations.) Guess you may not have noticed these either.

The 4th Of July and Why we need to boldy fight for religious freedom
‘We’ll Face More and More Serious Challenges to Religious Liberty in Our Country.’
Archbishop Chaput Closes Fortnight: What We Must Render Unto God and Unto Caesar
Government cannot take away true freedom, Archbishop Chaput teaches
Repair my house: renewing the roots of religious liberty
Rally opposes government intervention in religious matters
Novena for Religious Freedom for the United States of America (Prayer)

FREEDOM! US Catholic Church Rolls Out Major Offensive Against Obama’s Attacks on Religious Liberty
Opening Mass for the Fortnight for Freedom, Thursday 7PM ET
Fortnight for Freedom! (6/21-7/4)
Fortnight for Freedom
Group funded by George Soros poised to attack US Bishops for the “Fortnight for Freedom”
Archbishop [Lori]: 'Fortnight' about religious freedom, not politics
Religious Freedom and the Love of God
Bishops, That is a Pretty Nice Tax Exemption You Have There. Wouldn’t Want Anything Bad ...
Fortnight for Freedom
Baptist Leader Endorses Catholic Campaign

21 posted on 08/05/2012 1:40:19 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

bump


22 posted on 08/05/2012 2:33:23 PM PDT by Oratam
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To: Salvation

bump


23 posted on 08/05/2012 2:33:53 PM PDT by Oratam
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To: Salvation

bump


24 posted on 08/05/2012 2:44:29 PM PDT by Oratam
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To: Salvation

bump


25 posted on 08/05/2012 2:44:58 PM PDT by Oratam
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To: Salvation

bump


26 posted on 08/05/2012 2:45:22 PM PDT by Oratam
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To: Salvation

While many Bishops are to be commended for the stance they took on the attack on religious freedom posed by Obamacare, their response has been inadequate.

Remember the phrase “suppose they had a war and nobody came.” Well that describes the lackluster war that the Bishops called for. In many, many parishes there was only an insertion of a Bishop’s letter with no comments from the pulpit by pastor or priest. Contrast that with the during the Mass screening of an Archbishop’s Annual Appeal video.

I had expected that an effective campaign for the Fortnight for Freedom should have resulted in hundreds of thousands gathering at an approprite location in each and every diocese.

It is time to invite the cultural Catholics, laity and priests, to find another place to worship.

It is time to withdraw from secularized educational institutions that are Catholic in name only.

It is time to close hospitals and other social institutions that would otherwise violate conscience.

It is time for the Church to refuse to have offerings to God given the status of income tax deductions.

It is time that excommunication for many public leaders cease being a rarity.

It is time for all believers to promote school vouchers so that the children are not brainwashed eith secular values.


27 posted on 08/05/2012 4:03:18 PM PDT by Fithal the Wise
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To: Fithal the Wise

**Many bishops**

??

What dc you mean “many”?

100 percent came out against this monstrosity. That’s ALL!

Perhaps they could have done more, but the lawsuits are still viable as far as I know.

This is not over. (In other words, I don’t think they will every force Catholics to go against their faith.) But then looking backwards, Catholics were martyred because they would not pinch incense to the emperor, king, whatever. Maybe there will be more Catholic martyrs — I say bring it on — that always brings more people to the faith.


28 posted on 08/05/2012 4:39:44 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: loveliberty2; All

I am sorry not to have been by my computer all day to read the many fine responses - an emergency with a neighbor came up, and I’m just reading your responses here at 6:15PM PST.

Many, many thanks to all who responded. I hope to sift through some of the ideas and links over the coming days and weeks. Again, deep thanks.


29 posted on 08/05/2012 6:18:55 PM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: hosepipe

Thank you so much for the beautiful link, dear hosepipe!


30 posted on 08/05/2012 9:06:31 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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