Skip to comments.Angels: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly! Part II
Posted on 08/05/2012 11:20:31 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
When bad angels allegedly speak to humans (who almost invariably write books about their experiences and do the talk show circuit), the bad angel (demon) almost always conveys the false message of reincarnation and that any religion is good and acceptable. With both teachings, you are wading into the deep, dark, dank, and dirty backwaters of heresy. Such teachings are not found between the covers of the Bible, and thats our only reliable guide, not the self-serving ranting of disturbed or lying individuals. New Agers even teach gullible people how to contact their angels and tell them to meditate on angels especially when one is depressed or has a bad thought. When Satan or his demons set a delicious-looking meal be assured that there is wickedness and death in every bite. Remember that Christ said that Satan is the father of lies; so are his henchmen. Bookshelves are loaded with books about angels but most of them are heresy or hilarious but seldom harmless. When an angel instructs you, be assured that it is the other guys not the good guys and you sure dont want to hear from that crowd! Whenever your angel talks with you, be assured that his information will be a mixture of truth and error. Just enough truth to deceive very shallow people. It is impossible for an angel to contradict the Word of God nor can he reveal any extra biblical information. There is no Scriptural reason to believe that good angels speak with us today. Why should they when we have Gods Word to direct us? There is a huge amount of speculation, superstition, skepticism, and silliness from the dark side.
Many angel books suggest that there is an angel inside everyone that you must discover and permit him to exit the body. Of course, demons do occupy unsaved people as revealed in Luke 8:2. To suggest that good angels occupy people is so silly and absurd; it is shocking that any sane person would believe it. Especially is this true when Christ dwells in every Christian. (Christ in you, the hope of glory Col. 1:27).
One-third of the angels followed Lucifer (now Satan) in his rebellion against God and were cast out of Heaven (Rev. 12:9) and have since done the bidding of their nefarious leader. All angelic rebels will be consigned to the bottomless pit at the end times. Since those angels were created to be above mankind, we should remember that if angels could disobey God, then humans would be in even greater danger of disobedience.
Satan, leader of all bad angels (demons), often appears to be an angel of light (II Cor. 11:1), yet is the great deceiver (Rev. 12:9) and the great devourer (I Peter 5:8) whose end will always be destruction.
Is it possible for the presently good angels to stage a coup détat against Christ in the distant future and lead another rebellion? Lucifer, while a rebel, was not stupid. He knew of Gods incredible attributes yet he led the infamous unsuccessful rebellion. Did he know there was no possibility of success but was blinded by his lust for power, position, and prestige? Surely he knew that Heaven was not big enough for both he and God. I suppose he expected to reign on Earth (which is what he is trying to do today) after his expulsion from Heaven, but much to his surprise, God prepared Hell for him and his demons (Matt. 25:4). He is now convinced, I think, that it was not "Better to reign in Hell, then to serve in heaven," as the famous quote from John Milton's epic poem Paradise Lost reads. But then, Satan will not reign in Hell or Earth, but suffer with every other demon and lost person (Rev. 20:10).
Satans attempted coup failed and he and his band of defiant, disobedient, and destructive demons were cast out of Heaven to do their dirty work on earth. But could it happen again tomorrow or a million years from today?
Surely I am not the only one who has been troubled by this question.
How could Gods creatures choose to disobey God? Some questions demand an answer. Do angels have free will? Following the aborted coup attempt did God say, Oops, Id better do it better and remake these creatures so it doesnt happen again? But God doesnt say, oops or On second thought. Is it possible for God to create a flawed creature? If not, then is not a free will required? I want to know how it could happen the first time. And since it happened once, could it happen again? If not, why not?
There seems to be little debate that angels were created with a will. That seems to be a required, after all, Lucifer and his bunch of bullies did choose to rebel. Adam Clarke suggests that angels, like man, were given a probation period or opportunity to choose between right and wrong. He wrote, The angels were originally placed in a state of probation; some having fallen and some having stood proves this.
I think most theologians agree that God has no desire to have robots worshipping Him. Mankind failed the test in the Garden and was confirmed in his fallen, lost estate. One-third of the angels, with their free will, chose to follow Lucifer and were confirmed in their lost estate and eventual destination in the Lake of fire. The angels, who refused to follow Lucifer, were apparently confirmed to a state of being unable to sin, having passed the test or probation period by exercising their free will and choosing to remain faithful to God. Therefore, angels can no longer choose to sin. They made their irrevocable choice at the beginning. Humans, however, have been given the opportunity to choose to be redeemed from their fallen, lost condition.
The above is concurred with by Adam Clarke and my old college friend Dr. Harold Willmington of Liberty University and our theology professor at Moody, whose notes Harold still possesses! (No, they were not on parchment or even slate.)
Summarizing that idea, I suggest the original angels, being free moral agents, were able not to sin (posse non pecarre); however, the rebellious angels status changed when they exercised their free will and followed Satan. Then their nature changed and they became not able not to sin (non posse non pecarre). The remaining non-rebellious angels were then declared not able to sin (non posse pecarre).
Therefore, there will be no rebellion in Heaven for redeemed Christians to observe. The angelic good guys will always remain the good guys since they were confirmed that way when they refused to follow Lucifer. They lost their free will and received instead eternal faithfulness to God without the capacity to sin. Same with redeemed Christians in Heaven.
Copyright 2012, Don Boys, Ph.D.
(Dr. Don Boys is a former member of the Indiana House of Representatives, author of 14 books, frequent guest on television and radio talk shows, and wrote columns for USA Today for 8 years. Three years ago, the second edition of ISLAM: America's Trojan Horse! was published, and his new eBook, The God Haters is available for $9.99 from www.thegodhaters.com. These columns go to newspapers, magazines, television, and radio stations. His other web sites are www.cstnews.com and www.Muslimfact.com. Contact Don for an interview or talk show.)
Thanks, Rashputin !
But of course God creates creatures capable of error (i.e. with free will)...otherwise it would not be love freely given that He receives from us as a matter of free choice but merely robotic programming.
And from our point of view, how wonderful it is to serve God because we love Him rather than because He merely gives us no choice in the matter.
As He says, He is Love personified...not a dictator.
While I would not part company with anyone over their disagreement with me on the subject, I have come to believe some slightly alternate views on the theology of angels:
“One-third of the angels followed Lucifer (now Satan) in his rebellion against God and were cast out of Heaven (Rev. 12:9) and have since done the bidding of their nefarious leader.”
1. The one-third mentioned here have not yet been cast out from Heaven. There are fallen angels who sinned (in a sexual way) in the days of Noah which were subsequently sequestered to Tartarus. (See 2 Peter 2:4.) The “fall” of Satan from Heaven is prophetic and future.
2. Our current spiritual enemies are in high places (not Tartarus). They must get permission from God to do their evil works. (See 2 Chronicles 18; Job 1; Ephesians 6:12; and Revelation 12:10.)
3. God called mankind, and particularly the church, into existence as both a gift to His Son and as an object lesson to the angels as to His wisdom and the fallacies of Satanic logic. (See Ephesians 3:10 and again, the story of Job.)
4. If the angels who sinned in Noah’s day are in Tartarus, and the third (of remaining angels) that follow Satan are still in Heavenly places, where do the demons come from? My opinion is that these spirits that attach themselves to people and places are the offspring of angels and humans during the rebellion in Noah’s day. These are hybrid angel/human spirits whose bodies were destroyed in Noah’s flood but whose spirits have not been finally judged. (See Luke 8:31; Revelation 9:2; and 2 Peter 2:4 again.)
5. Angels are sometimes referred to as heavenly hosts much the same as stars. One of the Lord’s names is the Lord of Hosts. It is well supposed that the cherubim and seraphim are of an angelic order of creature. Many suppose these to have been created before the world or before time, yet the scriptures say that God created the Heavens, earth and all in them in six days. When were these created? I think Job answers this in regard to their connection to the stars. This incidentally also resolves the question as to whether angels sing. Most have simply inferred the angelic singing. We do see connections to musical instruments such as harps and trumpets. The one verse in the Bible which supports angels singing is Job 38:7. This verse, to me, also supports their creation being on the fourth day at the same time as the stars.
6. Because Jesus took human form, becoming a man, He redeemed mankind by His substitutionary death. He at know time became an angel, nor redeemed the fallen angels. (See Hebrews 2:16.)
7. Some have speculated that enough people will be saved to replace the angles who fell in order to fulfill their roles. There may be some truth here, but it is also important to remember that, in Christ, believers have a superior position above angels, and we will judge angels in the next life. (See Hebrews 2 again; and Ephesians 1:21.) By extension of this thought, the Septuagint seems to have the best rendering of Deuteronomy 32:8 - “When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.” That is, the principalities are princes of palities (i.e. places). The spiritual warfare of believers is first over the mind, then over geographic areas which align human governments with angelic jurisdictions. God has promised to save some out of every nation; and it may be that this relates to the replacing of angels that are to be removed.
My two cents.
Obviously some angels that contact humans are not fallen. We are told that we might entertain angels unawares (good angels). Good angels went to Lott.
And then there is the question as to whether demons are fallen angels or the spirits of the nephilim. And, of course, we are told to test spirits. Why test them if they are all bad?
If you need Scriptural reference, let me know.
This analysis (your analysis?) is, after review, kind of shallow.
God calls us to deepness...not to preachy shallowness.
Let’s just say I respect your right to an opinion.....but I absolutely, positively, couldn’t disagree with you more. One example: If your thesis was correct, Hell wouldn’t exist today. It would be a future place; a place of future torment.
Also, sin cannot exist in the presence of God. Those who rebelled....Lucifer, his followers....could therefore NOT remain in the presence of God.
Understand that God represents nothing; He IS love, light, and life. Remove Him...what do you have? Hell.
No future, no past, no present.
“If your thesis was correct, Hell wouldnt exist today. It would be a future place; a place of future torment.”
Actually, that is right. There are Tartarus - the bottomless pit; Hades - Hell; and Gehenna - Hell. Hades - Hell is the present place of torment for unbelievers after death. After the final judgment of the great white throne, it and those in it will be cast into the Lake of Fire (which I think is synonomous with Gehenna - Hell).
Fallen angels were placed in Tarturus, not Hades or Gehenna. There is an angel over this pit which will lead its inhabitants to carry out torments on the earth during the day of God’s wrath when God allows this prison to be temporarily opened. Later Satan will be placed there during the 1000 year kingdom rule of Christ on a rebuilt earth. Then Satan will be released briefly and finally judged and cast into the lake of fire.
“Also, sin cannot exist in the presence of God. Those who rebelled....Lucifer, his followers....could therefore NOT remain in the presence of God.”
God’s presence is everywhere since He is omnipresent. David said if he were to go down to Sheol (Hebrew equivalent to Hades), God is there. Obviously, God is not tormented with the inhabitants of hell, but His presence is there. (See Revelation 14:10.) God sees the works of men, including evil, yet He does not countenance evil, that is look favorably at it. He is not tempted by it. He does not wink at it or ignore it. But I do agree that God does not allow sin or disobedience to happen at all in Heaven where His throne is. That is why Jesus taught to pray God’s will to be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
But consider this, the principles of hell are already at work in the unbelieving heart now while the unbeliever is yet alive. His sins have separated between him and God. See Isaiah 59:2. God’s wrath is already upon him. See John 3:36. Their throat is an open grave. See Romans 3:13. Their tongue is set on fire by hell. See James 3:6.
“Remove Him...what do you have? Hell.”
I agree. Hell is being cut off from God. Even though He is omnipresent, unbelievers are still currently unable to experience the benefit of His presence in the spiritual realm except when they believe the gospel. To a greater extent they experience this presently when they die while awaiting judgment, but even more so after the final judgment they will experience the infinite and eternal pain of being completely cut off from the benefits of God’s love and provision for all that we need.
In Greek mythology, Tartarus was a lower level of Hades in which those present had the worst of the torments of Hades. I do not have a strong opinion as to whether this view is supported in the New Testament. I lean toward Tartarus also being a place where the fallen angels are suffering since some demons begged Jesus not to send them there, and asked is He intended to torment them before their appointed time.
As to Satan and fallen angels in God’s presence, I think the scriptures I cited in my previous post prove conclusively that Satan and other lying spirits do appear before God and attend His council meetings.
If you are unpersuaded, no hard feelings. There are far more important things to know and agree about.