Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

GOP ticket recalls past of Mormons, Catholics
The Columbia Daily Tribune ^ | Saturday, August 18, 2012 | L.V. ANDERSON

Posted on 08/18/2012 5:28:28 PM PDT by delacoert

Mitt Romney's choice of Paul Ryan as his vice presidential candidate makes 2012 the first time in American history that a major party has run a ticket without a Protestant on it. Romney is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Ryan is a Roman Catholic.

Have Mormons and Catholics always gotten along as well as the Republican running mates appear to?

No. The root of the conflict is doctrinal. The premise of the Book of Mormon is that the Bible is a corrupt and incomplete account of God's revelation — an implicit criticism of Catholic doctrine. The Book of Mormon also makes reference to an evil "church which is most abominable above all other churches," described more colorfully as "the mother of harlots." Although the Book of Mormon does not identify this evil institution as the Catholic Church, many Mormons have believed the two to be one and the same since the publication of the Book of Mormon in 1830.

Despite their doctrinal differences, Mormons and Catholics cohabited peacefully in Utah in the 19th century — but leaders of the two churches began passive-aggressively sniping at one another in the 20th century. In the late 1910s, Salt Lake City Catholic Bishop Joseph Sarsfield Glass commissioned murals in the Cathedral of the Madeleine that incorporated Bible passages that could easily be read as criticisms of Mormonism, including a line from St. Paul's letter to the Galatians that describes any alternate gospel as "anathema."

And in the 1930s and 1940s, a Catholic radio program and a Catholic pamphlet titled "A 'Foreign Mission' Close to Home!" convinced Mormon leaders — mistakenly — that Catholics were trying to convert Mormons to Catholicism.

Mormon mistrust of the Roman Catholic Church came to a head with the 1958 publication of Bruce McConkie's encyclopedia-like "Mormon Doctrine," which was not an official LDS publication, though McConkie was a low-ranking church leader. McConkie's entry for Catholicism simply referred readers to another entry called "Church of the Devil," which explicitly identified the Roman Catholic Church as being "most abominable above all other churches."

McConkie's book so upset the Catholic bishop of Salt Lake City that he visited the LDS church president in tears, which convinced the LDS leader to rein in anti-Catholic sentiment. Derogatory references to the Catholic Church were removed from later editions of "Mormon Doctrine," which is now out of print, and Mormon-Catholic relations in Utah became much friendlier in the 1960s and thereafter.

The most notable recent Mormon-Catholic clash came in 2001, when the Vatican began requiring Mormons who converted to Catholicism to be rebaptized — a move that implicitly called into question the Christian bona fides of the Mormon church. But the past decade has been a time of alliance between the churches, with Mormon and Catholic leaders coming together to fight gay marriage in Hawaii and California and to stand against perceived government encroachments on religious freedoms — stances that align with the Romney-Ryan platform.


TOPICS: Catholic; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: christians; inman; ldschurch; romney2012
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-109 next last

A little light on the subject.

1 posted on 08/18/2012 5:28:31 PM PDT by delacoert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: delacoert

Do Black Liberation Marxists get along with Northeast Pro Abort Catholics?


2 posted on 08/18/2012 5:40:10 PM PDT by nhwingut (Sarah Palin 12... No One Else)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

Dear Nr. Anderson:

Where were you when Obama’s “pastor” was g.ddam.ing America?


3 posted on 08/18/2012 5:44:45 PM PDT by yetidog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delacoert
that Catholics were trying to convert Mormons to Catholicism.

To Christianity.

4 posted on 08/18/2012 5:46:34 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

I don’t recall the media asking how Baptist Al Gore got along with his “Christ Killer” Jewish running mate.


5 posted on 08/18/2012 5:50:08 PM PDT by Argus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delacoert
The most notable recent Mormon-Catholic clash came in 2001, when the Vatican began requiring Mormons who converted to Catholicism to be rebaptized — a move that implicitly called into question the Christian bona fides of the Mormon church.

Not really rebaptized, but baptized into Christianity.
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

6 posted on 08/18/2012 5:51:45 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Argus

The difference is that Christianity and Judaism, are real.

Scientology and Mormonism, are not.


7 posted on 08/18/2012 5:54:01 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

It is kind of weird. America has two Presidential choices, a candidate whose religion was founded by a polygamist, and wrote a Holy Book, that anyone who has FAITH must except as truth, that only his religion is the one true way to God. Let’s see now, ‘eh...what is our other choice’...I mean the candidate who represents all of the REST of us who are the vast majority? Something smells rotten in Denmark.


8 posted on 08/18/2012 6:01:21 PM PDT by rovenstinez
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: rovenstinez

Freaky election, traditional marriage being defended as God’s unbreakable rule, will have representing it, one of Joseph Smith’s Bishops of a direct line serving Smith from the original followers, that is Joseph Smith of Vermont with about 50 wives.


9 posted on 08/18/2012 6:12:41 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

First of all Mormons are Christians. Their religion satisfies the foundation of Christianity like any other.
1. That Jesus was our savior and died for our sins. There is now route to heaven except through him.
2. Baptism.
3. That the people must repent their sins and ask for forgiveness.

That being said there are 2 types of Christianity. Yes only 2 not more and no less.
Type 1: Catholicism
Type 2: Protestism.

Therefore Mormons are Protestants. Simple. Problem solved.

In fact I believe that Mormons (I’m not for sure) but I believe they self identify as Protestant.


10 posted on 08/18/2012 6:16:53 PM PDT by RC51
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: rovenstinez

We’ve had three Unitarians as President. They weren’t Christians either. Nothing remarkable in any of their administrations.


11 posted on 08/18/2012 6:20:37 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: RC51

No Christian church agrees with you, they all agree that Mormonism is not Christian, the Protestants, the Catholic church, the Greek Orthodox, all agree on that.


12 posted on 08/18/2012 6:27:49 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: RC51
Therefore Mormons are Protestants. Simple. Problem solved.

Wow, what a pant-load.

Research the word Protestant and you will find it breaks down to two roots.

1. Pro

2. Teste

Together it meant to testify for, and in this case it means to testify for Christ, not Mary.

You couldn't be more wrong, Mormons do not testify for Christ.

13 posted on 08/18/2012 6:34:37 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: RC51

Statements of Christian Denominations on Mormonism:

15 posted on 08/18/2012 7:04:20 PM PDT by delacoert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Las Vegas Ron
Research the word Protestant and you will find it breaks down to two roots. 1. Pro 2. Teste"

Right. And Catholic is about a protein database and a soccer player.

16 posted on 08/18/2012 7:04:33 PM PDT by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Las Vegas Ron
Together it meant to testify for, and in this case it means to testify for Christ, not Mary.

Wrong. By the way, junior, you ought to do a little research into Luther's devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

prot·es·tant noun
\ˈprä-təs-tənt, 2 is also prə-ˈtes-\

1 capitalized a: any of a group of German princes and cities presenting a defense of freedom of conscience against an edict of the Diet of Spires in 1529 intended to suppress the Lutheran movement b: a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth; broadly: a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church

2: one who makes or enters a protest

17 posted on 08/18/2012 7:10:01 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham

Research a little deeper “junior”


18 posted on 08/18/2012 7:18:21 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Rashputin
Right. And Catholic is about a protein database and a soccer player.

And your reply is as about intelligent as a frog on a log.

19 posted on 08/18/2012 7:20:56 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham
Pro = for

Test, teste = test- witness Latin testis testament, testimony

Ant, anti = ant-, anti- against, opposed to, preventive Greek ἀντί anti "against" antagonist, antibiotic, antipodes

Can you add those together , "junior"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_and_Latin_roots_in_English

20 posted on 08/18/2012 7:27:59 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham

So you want people to be led by you to thinking that Mormons are Protestant Christians?


21 posted on 08/18/2012 7:33:40 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Las Vegas Ron

So say those who spend their time lying drunk beside logs looking at frogs.


22 posted on 08/18/2012 7:34:20 PM PDT by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: MEG33


Click Here...Support Free Republic

23 posted on 08/18/2012 7:40:02 PM PDT by MEG33 (O Lord, Guide Our Nation)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: delacoert
Putting the sci-fi thriller Joe Smith wrote on par with the Bible isn't enough?
24 posted on 08/18/2012 7:42:06 PM PDT by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: delacoert; All

Why should I care??


25 posted on 08/18/2012 7:48:42 PM PDT by KevinDavis (Romney / Ryan 2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: KevinDavis

EMWTK!

26 posted on 08/18/2012 8:00:39 PM PDT by delacoert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: KevinDavis

Freerepublic has many Christians, they care about Christianity.


27 posted on 08/18/2012 8:17:14 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
I beg to differ with you. Re-baptized is the proper word.

If I am not mistaken -- the Mormon baptism does not contain the full baptism that the Catholic Church does.

On Infant Baptism and the Complete Gratuity of Salvation
Parents: Don’t Delay Baptism for your Infants!
One Baptism for the Remission of Sins/The Sacrament of Baptism {Ecumenical thread)
Radio Replies Second Volume - The Sacraments [Baptism]
Baptism and Infant Baptism

"Baptism Now Saves You" - Nuts & Bolts - Tim Staples
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Baptism: Initiation and Regeneration
Are Catholics “Born Again?”
Baptizing infants, Pope speaks of 'adventure of being disciples'
Celebrate Your Birthday in the Church
Infant Baptism
Once a Catholic . . . (and part 2) . . . The Chicken's Questions
How Soon Should a Baby be Baptized?
Baptismal Complexes- The Sacrament of Baptism, Part 2
The Catechism of St. Thomas Aquinas BAPTISM
Beginning Catholic: The Sacrament of Baptism: Gateway to New Life [Ecumenical]

Converted Muslim Tells Story Behind Papal Baptism
What You [Catholics] Need to Know: Baptism [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 20: The Sacrament of Baptism
Baptism and the Usus Antiquior (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
Justified by Baptism (fallout from the Beckwith conversion grows)
The Million-Dollar Infant Baptism
Mystical Baptism and Limbo
The Early Church Fathers on Baptism - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
A Critique of a Critique (On Baptism by Immersion)
Catholics, Reformed Christian Churches sign document recognizing common baptism

28 posted on 08/18/2012 8:20:49 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

It took all those links to say that?

Read my post again, I said that already, Mormon baptism is not a Christian baptism like the Christian denominations.

Here is what I posted. “Not really rebaptized, but baptized into Christianity.”


29 posted on 08/18/2012 8:30:27 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

LDS teaching is Biblical. It is a matter of choice and interpretation. Christian churches don’t vote on who is and isn’t Christian. That authority rests only with Jesus Christ.


30 posted on 08/18/2012 8:37:47 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

Thanks for all you’re doing to help my re-election.

- Barak


31 posted on 08/18/2012 8:40:47 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD
"LDS teaching is Biblical. It is a matter of choice and interpretation."

So is the gay poofters book, since it's all a matter if interpretation.

32 posted on 08/18/2012 9:05:52 PM PDT by spunkets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Rashputin

Your intellect is a real asset to FR...not.

Get lost punk.


33 posted on 08/18/2012 9:07:59 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Rashputin; Las Vegas Ron

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.


34 posted on 08/18/2012 9:10:32 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: spunkets

You mean “of interpretation”, but your slip is telling. “If” is a word few people ever take action on. They mostly just go along with what someone has told them. Thinking for yourself is too hard, but then that’s why we’re a conservative. We like to think for ourselves.


35 posted on 08/18/2012 9:44:13 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

Is it baptism that makes it Christian? What makes a baptism a Christian baptism?


36 posted on 08/18/2012 9:48:45 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD; delacoert

Post 15 looks like it has all the sources on how Christian churches explain why Mormonism is not part of Christianity.


37 posted on 08/18/2012 9:53:06 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

This article’s about politics, not theology.


38 posted on 08/18/2012 10:14:51 PM PDT by Argus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Argus

LOL, you should read it again, it is about religion, Mormonism and Catholicism.

That is why we are in Religion, not Politics.


39 posted on 08/18/2012 10:23:17 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD
"You mean “of”,

Yes. I hit the "i" key instead of the "o" key.

" your slip is telling."

No.

40 posted on 08/18/2012 10:33:22 PM PDT by spunkets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

Why would the baptism not count?


41 posted on 08/18/2012 10:37:57 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD

This Catholic source explains it.

Full Question: Why doesn’t the Catholic Church accept Mormon baptism?

Answer:

The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptism as valid because, although Mormons and Catholics use the same words, those words have completely unrelated meanings for each religion. The Mormon’s very concept of God is infinitely different from that of Christians—even though they call themselves the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Mormons believe that God is only one of many gods who were once men and that each of us in turn can become what God is now. This process of men becoming gods is said to go back infinitely. But of course none of these gods can be infinite if they are multiple and had a beginning and are actually human beings. In Mormons’ view, both Jesus and the Father are what we would call glorified creatures.

They also believe that Jesus came into existence after the Father, and that the Father and the Son are not one in being. Thus, although they use the phrase “the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” in their usage this phrase takes on a meaning that is actually polytheistic and pagan rather than trinitarian.

For an in-depth look at this, see the books Inside Mormonism and When Mormons Call by Isaiah Bennett, available from Catholic Answers. For a shorter but equally incisive take, see Fr. Brian Harrison’s two-part series on Mormonism in the April and May-June 2003 issues of This Rock.

Answered by: Catholic Answers Staff


42 posted on 08/18/2012 10:42:36 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD

“LDS teaching is Biblical. It is a matter of choice and interpretation. Christian churches don’t vote on who is and isn’t Christian. That authority rests only with Jesus Christ.”

~ ~ ~

All Christians (Catholic, Eastern and Protestant) agree,
Mormonism is not Christian. They deny Our Lord is God!

may I ask, are you LDS?


43 posted on 08/19/2012 1:33:44 AM PDT by stpio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: RC51

“First of all Mormons are Christians. Their religion satisfies the foundation of Christianity like any other.
1. That Jesus was our savior and died for our sins. There is now route to heaven except through him.”


Mormons believe that Jesus died to satisfy original sin, that there are sins which cannot be forgiven or satisfied by Christ’s sacrifice and that one must pull oneself up from the boot straps in order to attain godhood. The Mormons do not believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. They believe in multiple levels of heaven which you go to depending on how bad you were. They baptize people after death so they can have a chance to go to one of these lesser heavens. They do have a “outer darkness,” their version of hell, but even that is not permanent and it is possible for people to work their way back up. Of course, only the faithful Mormon during life is able to enter the Celestial heaven, the highest level, where “eternal life” is defined by the Mormon as meaning “godhood,” and an eternal progression into higher and higher forms of godliness. For example, having your own planet, mass producing your own spirit children, and receiving worship.


“2. Baptism.


Mormons believe they have the one and true Baptism under the assertion that Joseph Smith sits on the right hand of God and not Christ. This is why they are called a religious cult and not a Christian religion.


44 posted on 08/19/2012 1:52:57 AM PDT by RaisingCain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: stpio

When you say they agree what do they agree on? My question was what makes a baptism by a Christian legitimate?

It is funny calling you St Pio. My friend has had several visitations from St. Pio, cigar, stigmata and all.


45 posted on 08/19/2012 4:18:13 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
The Mormon’s very concept of God is infinitely different from that of Christians—even though they call themselves the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

So despite not needing Orders to baptize and despite baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost an LDS baptism isn't valid because they reject the Trinity, correct?

What about divinization, deification or theosis?

How is time measured in eternity?

46 posted on 08/19/2012 4:45:59 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: 1010RD

I think that you need to take that up, with the Catholics.


47 posted on 08/19/2012 4:55:31 AM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

Which question can’t you answer? Don’t you know and understand eternity, baptism or deification?


48 posted on 08/19/2012 5:20:30 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

Here’s the reason I’m asking:

http://www.lds.org/topics/plan-of-salvation

I found it in a search for “eternity”.


49 posted on 08/19/2012 5:27:50 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Argus
I don’t recall the media asking how Baptist Al Gore got along with his “Christ Killer” Jewish running mate.

Good point. Unfortunately some will take the bait anyway.

50 posted on 08/19/2012 7:09:10 AM PDT by FreeReign
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-109 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson