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Democrats join Republicans in booking Cardinal Dolan for final prayer
cna ^ | August 28, 2012

Posted on 08/28/2012 1:31:45 PM PDT by NYer

Cardinal Timothy Dolan delivers a homily at the 2011 World Youth Day in Madrid.

New York City, N.Y., Aug 28, 2012 / 10:31 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Cardinal Timothy M. Dolan of New York has accepted an invitation to offer the closing prayer at the upcoming Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, N.C.

“It was made clear to the Democratic Convention organizers, as it was to the Republicans, that the Cardinal was coming solely as a pastor, only to pray, not to endorse any party, platform, or candidate,” New York archdiocese spokesperson Joseph Zwilling said in an Aug. 28 statement.

As previously announced, Cardinal Dolan will also give the benediction at the close of the Republican National Convention in Tampa, Fla.

Cardinal Dolan accepted the invitation after consulting and gaining the consent of Bishop Peter Jugis of the Diocese of Charlotte, N.C., since the convention will be taking place in his diocese.

In preparation for the Sept. 3-6 convention, the Diocese of Charlotte has posted two “larger-than-life” banners to publicize the Church’s beliefs about marriage, human life and religious freedom, the Catholic News Herald reported Aug. 25.

The banners are hanging on two buildings owned by the diocese and are within feet of where the convention will take place.

A six-foot by 10-foot banner proclaims, “Religious Liberty, The Soul of Democracy,” while a six-foot by 27-foot banner at another location reads, “Protect the Unborn, Defend Marriage, Safeguard Religious Liberty.”

Cardinal Dolan has been an outspoken critic of the federal contraception mandate issued by the Obama administration in January 2011. It requires employers to offer health insurance plans that cover contraception, sterilization and abortion-inducing drugs, even if doing so violates their consciences.

Numerous dioceses, non-profit organizations and Catholic-owned businesses have sued the administration, arguing that the mandate violates the First Amendment by forcing them to compromise their deeply held religious convictions.

President Obama has also consistently supported legalized abortion and is the first U.S. president to openly advocate a redefining marriage to include homosexual couples.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Prayer; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: democrats; dnc; dolan

1 posted on 08/28/2012 1:31:52 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

So .. after refusing to invite Dolan to deliver the prayer, the democrats have now had a change of heart. Perhaps Dolan’s prayer will result in the conversion of heart of some of those present at the dem convention.


2 posted on 08/28/2012 1:33:28 PM PDT by NYer (Without justice, what else is the State but a great band of robbers? - St. Augustine)
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To: NYer

Cardinal Timothy M. Dolan better bring security.


3 posted on 08/28/2012 1:39:24 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (I used to want to change the world. Now, I want to stop the world from changing me.)
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To: NYer

I’m hoping he will slip in some nice pro life references in his prayer, really knock em for a loop. I think the Dems may regret this...


4 posted on 08/28/2012 1:40:09 PM PDT by cport (How can political capital be spent on a bunch of ingrates)
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To: NYer
The prayer at the DNC convention:

"Get thee behind me satan. Amen"

5 posted on 08/28/2012 1:40:14 PM PDT by missnry (The truth will set you free ... and drive liberals Crazy!)
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To: NYer

I hope he brings along some holy water and an exorcist to assist him.


6 posted on 08/28/2012 1:47:27 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: NYer
This applies:

QUAERITUR: Why pray to “confuse” enemies rather than “convert”?

From a reader:

Sometimes you write that we should pray for strength for the Pope but confusion for his enemies.  Shouldn’t you pray for the conversion of his enemies?

Okay.  Pray for conversion.  By all means.

Perhaps I have read 19th century English novels, Patrick O’Brien, and both the King James and Douay versions of the Bible enough that some of turns of phrase stick in my head.

“Confusion to one’s enemies” is a constant prayer in the Scriptures and it is what God inflicts on those who are doing something in defiance of His will.  It also came to be a standard expression in English, probably because of the KJV.

“Confusion” and the related “confound” are both from Latin, of course.  Confundo means basically “to pour, mingle, or mix together”.  By extension it means that, when things are poured together they become jumbled and confused, disordered.  Thus there is a moral notion of dissaray, intellectual confusion, ineffectiveness.  Someone who has been “confounded” has been thwarted in his scheme, has been demonstrated to be wrong.

This is what God did to the people who built the Tower of Babel: he confused them and their wicked goal by scrambling their speech.  In English, “confound” concerns making someone confused or defeating them, or even refuting a bad argument.

In the Psalms we have myriad references to confusion and confounding.

Thus, in Psalms 70:13 in the older numbering we find: “Let them be confounded and come to nothing that detract my soul; let them be covered with confusion and blame that seek my hurt.”

In Jeremiah 8:12 we have this confounded confusion: “They are confounded, because they have committed abomination: yea rather they are not confounded with confusion, and they have not known how to blush: therefore shall they fall among them that fall; in the time of their visitation they shall fall, saith the Lord.”

In Acts 9:22 St. Paul gets to confuse people:  “But Saul increased much more in strength and confounded the Jews who dwelt at Damascus, affirming that this is the Christ.”

And to the Corinthians Paul wrote (1 Cor 1:27): “But the foolish things of the world hath God chosen, that he may confound the wise: and the weak things of the world hath God chosen, that he may confound the strong.”

In the Douay Bible you can find all sorts of uses of confound.

So, in sum, sometimes I use archaic language.

But by all means, pray that the Pope’s enemies, after being confounded, be converted as well.


7 posted on 08/28/2012 1:48:08 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM (Sin Makes You Stupid.)
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To: NYer

I’m sorry; when a religious leader says they are acting in a non-political or in a “bi-partisan” manner, they ARE being political.

I have no objections to a political convention having opening and/or closing prayers.

I would simply have them - the prayers, and I would not have a “celebrity” religious leader give them.

Using a well known figure is a religious pretense of a sham, as if the prayer is greater if given by such a person.

Having a prominent religious figure give the prayers is a political act; it’s a political party reaching for political support through the prominence of the well known figure giving the prayer. That’s a fact and the prayer ceases to be just a prayer.

Sorry; it’s not “religious”, it is political. I wouldn’t do it. I’d invite a local Pastor from a Congregation in the city of the convention. All the occasion requires is the prayer, not a religious leaders blessing.


8 posted on 08/28/2012 2:15:31 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: NYer

Doubt he’ll get two hours like the islamics.


9 posted on 08/28/2012 2:35:51 PM PDT by bgill
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To: NYer

He should have excommunicated every so-called “Catholic” at the convention. I hate to say it but he’s a pillow-biter.


10 posted on 08/28/2012 2:58:01 PM PDT by namvolunteer (Obama says the US is subservient to the UN and the Constitution does not apply. That is treason.)
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To: NYer
Ol' Ann Barnhardt has some interesting things to say about Cardinal Dolan:

http://www.barnhardt.biz

"Cardinal Dolan, along with the majority of the bishops and priests in the western world today DON'T ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, HIS CHURCH, OR THE EUCHARIST. Some of them, like Dolan, can talk a good talk, not unlike the guys who sell cheap Chinese cutlery sets at drag strips and county fairs, but their actions clearly betray that it is all exactly that: TALK. Dolan worships power, prestige, personal fame and glory. Dolan invited Obama to that dinner because Dolan, at the end of the day, is just a narcissistic politician who gets off on having his picture taken sitting next to the president of the United States, and being cheered and "liked" by as many people as possible, and he will sell Our Lord and His Church out for a tinker's damn because he doesn't actually believe in Our Lord or His Church, he only believes in the corrupted political matrix and cult of celebrity that has invaded and infested The Church. Dolan is a man completely focused and centered on THIS WORLD and HIS POSITION IN IT. In order to maintain his position, he will glad-hand and kiss the ass of an antichrist. He will happily preside over "gay masses", he will sell out the laity and "compromise" on abortion, contraception and sterilization. I predict that Dolan will eventually tell Catholics that they should "comply under duress" with the HHS mandate, and that it will be "morally acceptable" to pay for abortion, contraception and sterilization, so long as the Catholic "doesn't like it" and does it only "under protest". That cowardly chickenshit meme was floated just this week by Bishop James Conley of Denver IN HIS COLUMN in the archdiocesan newspaper. There is nothing more disgusting than watching so-called "conservative" bishops in the United States literally shit all over the Roman Martyrology - every single one of them, both known and unknown. "
11 posted on 08/28/2012 3:06:29 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: NYer

Or how about that prayer that Mother Teresa of Calcutta gave to the Kansas legislature?


12 posted on 08/28/2012 3:22:47 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: fr_freak
"...Dolan invited Obama to that dinner because Dolan, at the end of the day, is just a narcissistic politician who gets off on having his picture taken sitting next to the president of the United States, and being cheered and "liked" by as many people as possible..."

Just before I caught your post quoting Ann Barnhardt, I was thinking to myself "if Dolan is going only to pray, there had better not be any smiling photo-ops taken with the candidates."

13 posted on 08/28/2012 3:34:59 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: fr_freak
Ann Barnhart is full of herself. The Church will never be pristine enough for her so she resorts to bitching, moaning and complaining. In her narrow world view the American Bishops are Marxist, the Priests are fags, the Nuns are Lesbians and anyone attending a Novus Ordo Mass is a slacker.

She recently posted on her blog that her “mortal sin numero uno is DESPAIR.” I guess that would make CALUMNY numero dos.

The only thing she gets right is the stench of Bernandin did much damage to the Church. By the grace of God that stench is being slowly and surely removed from the Church. As a matter of fact Dolan was a bit of a surprise when he got elected as the Chairman of the USCCB since he’s not one of Bernardin’s boys.

Everything happens for a reason and it’s no accident that Dolan is leading the American Church at the time of this frontal attack by our government. He needs the support of Catholics not back stabbing by people like Ann Barnhart. We need to get behind him or get out of the way.

14 posted on 08/28/2012 3:44:33 PM PDT by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg
She may not be very politic about it, and you may not like what she says ... but I think she has Dolan pegged accurately here.

Let's face it -- the USCCB is not a religious organization. It's a political lobbying group, and has effectively become the leadership of the official "state church" of the modern, secular United States of America. This is why their offices are in Washington, D.C., by the way. If they were truly a religious organization they'd probably be located somewhere in Nebraska or Kansas.

But I'd also suggest that right-thinking American Catholics have written off Cardinal Dolan and his ilk years ago, so I don't see why Ann Barnhart should be disappointed at all.

15 posted on 08/28/2012 3:58:33 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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I think it’s a no brainer. We are to love and pray for our enemies at every opportunity.


16 posted on 08/28/2012 4:08:01 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: pegleg; All
I came across this item on a Catholic blog, posted shortly after the controversy surrounding the Al Smith Dinner in New York City began to get a lot of media attention. I think it hits the nail right on the head (the bold highlight is mine):

It's interesting that [the Author] should mention the FSSP. Catholic orders like the FSSP (and the SSPX) exist because they've already written off people like Timothy Dolan and the "state churh" he represents. The SSPX is openly defiant about it, while the FSSP is rather delicate about it.

I was kind of caught off guard by this story and wasn't even aware of the previous situations surrounding the Al Smith Dinner in 1996 and 2004. Quite frankly, I had been under the impression that they had stopped holding the Al Smith Dinner years ago. Most of the people who really matter in the fight for moral truth and to protect our God-given rights probably never heard of Al Smith, or this silly annual event that bears his name. They're busy standing on line outside of Chick-fil-A at least once a week, supporting a fundamentalist Protestant CEO who wouldn't waste his time with such nonsense himself.

And there you have it. Dan Cathy has more credibility for his "Catholic" moral leadership in this country than Cardinal Dolan does. That's a freaking disgrace.

17 posted on 08/28/2012 4:09:01 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Alberta's Child
She may not be very politic about it, and you may not like what she says ... but I think she has Dolan pegged accurately here.

You stand behind Ann and I’ll stand behind Cardinal Dolan and let the chips fall where they may.

Let's face it -- the USCCB is not a religious organization. It's a political lobbying group, and has effectively become the leadership of the official "state church" of the modern, secular United States of America.

That would be your opinion.

But I'd also suggest that right-thinking American Catholics have written off Cardinal Dolan and his ilk years ago

What is his ilk?

, so I don't see why Ann Barnhart should be disappointed at all.

Lucky for me I don’t consider her my moral compass. Being zealous is one thing, being slanderous is quite another.

18 posted on 08/28/2012 4:25:38 PM PDT by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: Alberta's Child
And there you have it. Dan Cathy has more credibility for his "Catholic" moral leadership in this country than Cardinal Dolan does

You are welcome to my share of Ann's kool-aid.

19 posted on 08/28/2012 4:27:24 PM PDT by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg; Alberta's Child
She may not be very politic about it, and you may not like what she says ... but I think she has Dolan pegged accurately here.

You stand behind Ann and I’ll stand behind Cardinal Dolan and let the chips fall where they may.

Those who follow the Faith applaud.

Let's face it -- the USCCB is not a religious organization. It's a political lobbying group, and has effectively become the leadership of the official "state church" of the modern, secular United States of America.

That would be your opinion.

Yup.

But I'd also suggest that right-thinking American Catholics have written off Cardinal Dolan and his ilk years ago

What is his ilk?

Somebody who doesn't pander to the Democrats.

I love Alberta. I don't love Democrat apologists.

20 posted on 08/28/2012 10:47:33 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: pegleg
Ann Barnhart is full of herself. The Church will never be pristine enough for her so she resorts to bitching, moaning and complaining. In her narrow world view the American Bishops are Marxist, the Priests are fags, the Nuns are Lesbians and anyone attending a Novus Ordo Mass is a slacker.

You may disagree with her assessment and her style, but saying she is full of herself seems like an odd characterization. The woman is definitely walking the walk. She closed down her brokerage because she believes the market is rigged and therefore immoral, and she is refusing to pay any more taxes because she refuses to support this corrupt government. She calls out Islam for the death cult it is. She calls out Obama for the anti-American communist that he is. She speaks out openly about these things and even gives her name and location so people know where to find her. Full of herself? Hardly. She simply believes in things and is acting on those beliefs.

I don't know much about Dolan, but if he is honoring Obama and any of the other pro-abortion, pro-communist, thieves in Washington, then she is right about him. I do know enough about the Church to know that it has, indeed, been quite significantly infiltrated by homosexuals who are not true to Catholic or even Christian belief. All you have to do is listen to what the various "Catholic" groups are saying about things like abortion and homosexuality to know what's really in their hearts. "By their fruits shall you know them", as it were.

All I can say is that if the rest of the US had the same balls as Barnhardt, we would have overthrown this corrupt government by now and re-instituted the US Constitution, instead of hoping and praying that a corrupt, immoral jackass like Romney is going to save us.


21 posted on 08/28/2012 11:08:10 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: pegleg
What is his ilk?

"His ilk" includes the so-called "Catholic leadership" in this country that has capitulated to a radically secular government whose agenda for this country is an utter abomination by any objective measure.

Ann Barnhart is right. The shepherds have ingratiated themselves with the wolves and invited them into the pasture, while the flock is left to fend for themselves.

"By their fruits you shall know them." -- Matthew 7:16

22 posted on 08/29/2012 2:42:52 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: NYer
Only as an afterthought.

The real invitees are:


23 posted on 08/29/2012 3:04:01 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good-Pope Leo XIII)
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To: fr_freak
You may disagree with her assessment and her style, but saying she is full of herself seems like an odd characterization. The woman is definitely walking the walk.

She should stick to market commentary where she has established some credibility . The fact she is also a so called “traditional” Catholic who loves the Latin Mass is admirable. However, it does not follow that this gives her the charism of reading souls. Her slanderous attacks on Cardinal Dolan and her interpretation of his motives is a disgrace. This undermines any credibility she thinks she has in this regard. Here are a few examples

“ YOU are the poster child for the "ravening wolves" class of wretched clergy.”

“We both know that you don't even believe in hell”

“Cardinal Dolan, along with the majority of the bishops and priests in the western world today DON'T ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, HIS CHURCH, OR THE EUCHARIST.”

Ann needs to be called to repentance rather than be held up as some type of Catholic hero.

I don't know much about Dolan,

Obviously

but if he is honoring Obama and any of the other pro-abortion, pro-communist, thieves in Washington, then she is right about him.

Has anyone seen an endorsement by Dolan for Obama or Romney? Is engaging the enemy a bad thing?

All I can say is that if the rest of the US had the same balls as Barnhardt, we would have overthrown this corrupt government by now and re-instituted the US Constitution, instead of hoping and praying that a corrupt, immoral jackass like Romney is going to save us.

Ann is fine within her area of expertise. She is not an expert on Dolan, his motives or the state of his soul.

24 posted on 08/29/2012 5:30:57 AM PDT by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: Alberta's Child
"His ilk" includes the so-called "Catholic leadership" in this country that has capitulated to a radically secular government whose agenda for this country is an utter abomination by any objective measure.

Last I checked the Bishops led by Dolan are fighting the HHS mandate, abortion and same sex marriage. In what area have they capitulated?

Ann Barnhart is right. The shepherds have ingratiated themselves with the wolves and invited them into the pasture, while the flock is left to fend for themselves.

Ann needs to get over herself. Earlier this year she had a post on her blog that stated she expected Cardinal Dolan to cave quickly on the HHS mandate and prayed she would be wrong. I sent her an e-mail and said not to worry, her prayers would be answered and Cardinal Dolan won’t cave. Now she predicts

“ Dolan will eventually tell Catholics that they should "comply under duress" with the HHS mandate, and that it will be "morally acceptable" to pay for abortion, contraception and sterilization, so long as the Catholic "doesn't like it" and does it only "under protest".

She’s a fool and this prediction will also not come to pass. I would suggest all the Dolan bashers take of their secular hats and replace with their spiritual one. The truth of the matter is nothing will happen to the Church unless God permits it. He’s in charge not us. There’s a reason Cardinal Dolan is leading the effort and not Ann Barnhardt.

25 posted on 08/29/2012 5:49:42 AM PDT by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg
"but if he is honoring Obama and any of the other pro-abortion, pro-communist, thieves in Washington, then she is right about him."

Has anyone seen an endorsement by Dolan for Obama or Romney? Is engaging the enemy a bad thing?


I didn't say a thing about endorsing. I said "honoring". "Honoring" includes inviting Obama to a Catholic dinner, or, quite frankly, to any Catholic event. Engaging the enemy would mean Dolan meets with Obama to tell him why his policies are so wrong and to change the error of his ways. Inviting him to participate in a dinner, without engaging him, is an honor.
26 posted on 08/29/2012 6:03:22 AM PDT by fr_freak
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To: fr_freak
Engaging the enemy would mean Dolan meets with Obama to tell him why his policies are so wrong and to change the error of his ways.

I don’t believe it’s a stretch to infer Obama, and Romney for that matter, know full well the position of Dolan and the Bishops. The position statement and the lawsuits are out there.

Inviting him to participate in a dinner, without engaging him, is an honor.

I trust the judgment of Cardinal Dolan on this. He knows what he’s doing.

27 posted on 08/29/2012 6:25:00 AM PDT by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg
I trust the judgment of Cardinal Dolan on this. He knows what he’s doing.

How do you know that? Have you been following Dolan's "career"? Or are you just assuming he knows what he's doing because he's so high up in the ranks?
28 posted on 08/29/2012 6:44:37 AM PDT by fr_freak
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To: fr_freak
How do you know that? Have you been following Dolan's "career"?

I have been following Cardinal Dolan since he became Chairman of the USCCB. His body of work suggest he’s a bright, articulate defender of the faith.

Or are you just assuming he knows what he's doing because he's so high up in the ranks?

I don’t assume anything. I also take the word of Catholic League president Bill Donohue who is a personal friend of his. He posted on his site the following:

“The fundamental difference between Cardinal Dolan and these critics comes down to one thing: he is a man of principle and they don’t know how to spell the word. He invited President Obama to the Al Smith Dinner, knowing he would receive flak from some on the right. Then he agreed to speak at the RNC, knowing he would be blasted by some on the left. Now he has accepted an invitation to speak at the DNC and none of his critics—on both the left and the right—can figure him out.”

“What this shows is that Cardinal Dolan is able to rise above the politics of the moment. But to those who view the world exclusively through the lens of power, this is completely unintelligible.”

29 posted on 08/29/2012 7:01:16 AM PDT by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg
“What this shows is that Cardinal Dolan is able to rise above the politics of the moment. But to those who view the world exclusively through the lens of power, this is completely unintelligible.”

This does not sound like a positive to me. A cardinal is not a politician - he is not supposed to be bi-partisan. He is supposed to be a shepherd of his flock. To me, that would mean that he needs to speak loudly about issues regarding the faith and Church doctrine.

Abortion and homosexuality are two issues about which the Church speaks rather firmly, yet Dolan, as well as other American clergy, has not condemned the Left's positions on these issues. Obama has not only supported abortion all the way up to partial birth abortion, but he has just recently declared his support for gay marriage. In fact, I believe the Democrats are adding gay marriage to their platform (abortion is already there).

Under those conditions, how can Dolan consider being impartial to be a good thing? How can he hobnob with Democrats, or tacitly support their convention by appearing there, and still consider himself to be a servant of God and the Church? "Rising above politics" in this instance appears to mean that he refuses to take a stand on these very fundamental issues so that he can be friends with both parties.
30 posted on 08/29/2012 7:19:51 AM PDT by fr_freak
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To: fr_freak
To me, that would mean that he needs to speak loudly about issues regarding the faith and Church doctrine.

He does. To some maybe not loud or long enough but it’s difficult to please everybody.

Abortion and homosexuality are two issues about which the Church speaks rather firmly, yet Dolan, as well as other American clergy, has not condemned the Left's positions on these issues.

Yes they have.

Under those conditions, how can Dolan consider being impartial to be a good thing?

His position is well know to those who pay attention.

How can he hobnob with Democrats, or tacitly support their convention by appearing there, and still consider himself to be a servant of God and the Church?

Dolan isn’t tacitly supporting their convention. You sound like a modern day Pharisee. Does “Hobnobbing” with sinners not meet your expectations of what a Cardinal or Bishop is expected to do? Did Jesus set an example regarding this?

in this instance appears to mean that he refuses to take a stand on these very fundamental issues so that he can be friends with both parties.

Donohue was correct, “those who view the world exclusively through the lens of power, this is completely unintelligible.”

31 posted on 08/29/2012 7:55:33 AM PDT by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg
There is a high-profile case in Colorado involving the Catholic-owned business (Hercules Industries) who filed suit against the HHS mandate and won a temporary stay of the HHS mandate for that company. The lawsuit is titled Newland v. Sebelius in the court docket (Newland being the Catholic family that owns Hercules).

The Catholic bishops in this country can't even figure out how to deal with prominent Catholics in our national leadership who are complicit in these kinds of abominations ... to the point where a Catholic family has to turn to the civil court system to deal with an abomination like this involving a CATHOLIC public official. Sorry to be blunt about this, but if these bishops had any b@lls they would have publicly excommunicated people like Nancy Pelosi and Kathy Sebelius by name years ago.

It's one thing to "engage the enemy," as you've said elsewhere on this thread, but the time for engagement is over when your institution is involved in lawsuits against that "enemy." Under no circumstances should a religious leader extend an invitation to a civil government official who has openly engaged in the exercise of his or her civil authority in a manner that udnermines the moral foundation of those religious believers and threatens to persecute them. "Rendering unto Caesar" does not mean inviting him to dinner (for a major fund-raiser, by the way) or showing up at his palace for a photo-op when he has already taken such an adversarial stance.

32 posted on 08/29/2012 8:48:30 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: pegleg

“Her slanderous attacks on Cardinal Dolan and her interpretation of his motives is a disgrace.”

I do believe her remarks are slanderous.

There are many times when I believe that the cyber world has robbed us of our need to weigh the prudence about the words we write and to consider their consequences.

The last time I looked, the word “contumely” was still there in my (Catholic) “Moral Guidance” book.


33 posted on 08/29/2012 8:53:07 AM PDT by Running On Empty (The three sorriest words: "It's too late")
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To: pegleg
I don’t assume anything. I also take the word of Catholic League president Bill Donohue who is a personal friend of his.

As a prominent Catholic in New York City, I wonder if Bill Donohue himself is attending the Al Smith Dinner in October with Barack Obama and Mitt Romney.

34 posted on 08/29/2012 8:57:41 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Alberta's Child
Sorry to be blunt about this, but if these bishops had any b@lls they would have publicly excommunicated people like Nancy Pelosi and Kathy Sebelius by name years ago.

Can’t say I disagree with you on this.

Under no circumstances should a religious leader extend an invitation to a civil government official who has openly engaged in the exercise of his or her civil authority in a manner that udnermines the moral foundation of those religious believers and threatens to persecute them.

Says you

"Rendering unto Caesar" does not mean inviting him to dinner (for a major fund-raiser, by the way) or showing up at his palace for a photo-op when he has already taken such an adversarial stance.

Who said this was a photo-op? Do you also have the charism of reading souls like Ann Barnhardt does?

35 posted on 08/29/2012 9:20:58 AM PDT by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: Alberta's Child
As a prominent Catholic in New York City, I wonder if Bill Donohue himself is attending the Al Smith Dinner in October with Barack Obama and Mitt Romney.

Don’t know and don’t care. I can tell you for a fact I didn’t get an invite :-)

36 posted on 08/29/2012 9:29:41 AM PDT by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg
You sound like a modern day Pharisee. Does “Hobnobbing” with sinners not meet your expectations of what a Cardinal or Bishop is expected to do? Did Jesus set an example regarding this?

I don't care what I sound like. The questions stand on their own. Jesus had no problem calling out temple priests who used their office to enrich and glorify themselves rather than God. And I think we both know what "hobnobbing" means, and it's certainly not the same as "ministering to" or "confronting".

I ask these questions because you accuse Ann Barnhardt of slander and being "full of herself", yet the only justification I have heard for this position is that Dolan is the man in charge and his good friend said he was a nice guy.
37 posted on 08/29/2012 12:23:47 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: fr_freak
I ask these questions because you accuse Ann Barnhardt of slander and being "full of herself", yet the only justification I have heard for this position is that Dolan is the man in charge and his good friend said he was a nice guy.

I only provided a few examples of some of her comments and if you really believe they aren’t slanderous then I would suggest you pay closer attention.

I also posted one of her Cardinal Dolan predications she totally whiffed on and her most current one which will also be a whiff. She has zero credibility regarding Cardinal Dolan. But if you want to join her little band of disgruntled Catholics go for it. For me it’s no sale.

On a side note, I do enjoy her Market Commentaries.

38 posted on 08/29/2012 12:58:43 PM PDT by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg

Well, I suppose we’ve beaten this subject to death by now. I actually hope you are right about Dolan. It’s just that, in this day and age, it is so rare to find someone who actually believes in anything enough to stick their necks out for it, that I pretty much assume they are milquetoasts until I see concrete evidence otherwise.


39 posted on 08/30/2012 12:51:33 AM PDT by fr_freak
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