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Is American atheism heading for a schism?
The Guardian (UK) ^ | Sept 2, 2012 | Peter McGrath

Posted on 09/03/2012 12:22:41 AM PDT by jocon307

In the passionate world of American atheism, the venom usually directed at believers has now been turned against the wrong kind of atheists.

The cause of this freethinking furore? A new movement called Atheism+. According to its website, "Atheism+ is a safe space for people to discuss how religion affects everyone and to apply skepticism and critical thinking to everything, including social issues like sexism, racism, GLBT issues, politics, poverty, and crime."

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Humor; Religion & Culture; Skeptics/Seekers
KEYWORDS: antitheism; atheism
I hope it was OK to post this in the Religion section, it seemed the most appropriate.

This is a rather snarky and amusing article, a little over my head as I do not keep up with the tenants of atheism.

It shows how people will fight about anything, even or especially with those on their own side.

Language warning, btw, I guess The Guardian isn't what we call a "family newspaper".

1 posted on 09/03/2012 12:22:47 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: jocon307

PS-should have given a tip o’the hat to the Hot Air site.


2 posted on 09/03/2012 12:23:33 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: jocon307

Perfectly ok to put it in the Religion section. Religion is Man’s ideas on God as well as God’s thoughts on Man. Atheism is a belief system (or in this case non-belief) about God just as much as Christianity or Islam or Buddhism.


3 posted on 09/03/2012 12:30:45 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

TY!

I don’t know why atheists have become so aggressive lately. I think the man who wrote the piece is an atheist himself, and he seems OK.

If I take him right he doesn’t want to be pushed around and doesn’t want to push others around.


4 posted on 09/03/2012 12:37:13 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: jocon307
. . . a little over my head as I do not keep up with the tenants of atheism.

What tenets, other than not believing in a supernatural being?

5 posted on 09/03/2012 12:47:09 AM PDT by Misterioso (The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it. -- Ayn Rand)
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To: Misterioso

Or does atheism actually have tenants?


6 posted on 09/03/2012 12:49:52 AM PDT by Misterioso (The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it. — Ayn Rand)
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To: jocon307

If they don’t believe in God, what is it they are getting all worked up about?


7 posted on 09/03/2012 12:53:24 AM PDT by loboinok (Gun control is hitting what you aim at!)
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To: Misterioso

Well, first I was going to say “beliefs” but that seemed wrong.


8 posted on 09/03/2012 1:10:16 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: jocon307

Its so simple really. I am a Christian because I have yet to see any other way of living that gives people more joy in the good times, more strength in the hard times, and more comfort in our times of sorrow.


9 posted on 09/03/2012 1:23:07 AM PDT by Casie
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To: loboinok
If they don’t believe in God, what is it they are getting all worked up about?

Madelyn Murray O'Hare, the lady responsible for removing prayer from school and an avowed atheist, put up a Christmas tree for her kids, and set up a manger scene underneath the tree. Then, in the presence of her children she stomped on Baby Jesus.

I would be willing to bet that most atheists know there is a God, but prefer to hate Him, and make it their life mission to stomp Him out of other people's lives.

10 posted on 09/03/2012 1:31:19 AM PDT by Slyfox
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To: Slyfox

It’s OK. God doesn’t believe in aetheism. In the end, every knee will bend and declare that He is God...


11 posted on 09/03/2012 1:45:11 AM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: Slyfox
Madelyn Murray O'Hare, the lady responsible for removing prayer from school and an avowed atheist,

Wasn’t her own son suspected of her murder?

12 posted on 09/03/2012 1:47:28 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: jocon307

Atheists do not believe in God. How is it possible to have a split between Atheists? Did one sect of deniers break away from the traditional group of deniers? Are the traditionalists calling the new Atheists apostates and heretics?


13 posted on 09/03/2012 1:49:28 AM PDT by MasterGunner01
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To: jsanders2001

Atheism is just an excuse not to believe in God so you can’t be held accountable for your carnal nature and are excused to do whatever you want without consequences (or so they think). It allows men to define their own subjective relative morality so that they can basically do whatever they want. This is also one of the tenets of Satanism by the way.


14 posted on 09/03/2012 1:50:19 AM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: Pontiac
“Wasn’t her own son suspected of her murder?”

No, O’Hare, her daughter, and son were kidnapped by an ex-employee caught stealing from her organization who Madelyn fired and then wrote a scathing indictment of him in the “American Atheist” magazine she produced. The kidnapper got her and the kids to make bank withdrawals, and he then killed them all. The killer himself was conned out of the stolen loot and went to prison for the murders destitute.

15 posted on 09/03/2012 1:57:00 AM PDT by MasterGunner01
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To: Misterioso
Or does atheism actually have tenants?

No moreso than not believing in Bigfoot has tenants. Atheists range from communists to Objectivists.

16 posted on 09/03/2012 2:04:18 AM PDT by Joseph Harrolds
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To: Casie
Its so simple really. I am a Christian because I have yet to see any other way of living that gives people more joy in the good times, more strength in the hard times, and more comfort in our times of sorrow.

How...utilitarian of you! That's not a jab; I once read of someone who, while otherwise quite skeptical in most matters, believed in God. When asked why, he said, "Because it comforts me".

More power to him (and you). It's a philosohical trick I can't quite understand, myself, so I remain agnostic on the subject, regardless of how much (or little) comfort such a position provides me.

17 posted on 09/03/2012 2:04:35 AM PDT by Joseph Harrolds
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To: jsanders2001
Atheism is just an excuse not to believe in God so you can’t be held accountable for your carnal nature and are excused to do whatever you want without consequences (or so they think).

Can't it it simply be an honestly held opiinion?

18 posted on 09/03/2012 2:04:57 AM PDT by Joseph Harrolds
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To: loboinok
If they don’t believe in God, what is it they are getting all worked up about?

They don't want YOU to believe in God, the Christian God.

I don't tie atheism to communism, it is older, much, much older, in fact if you peer around the corner of any "ism" you'll see the face of atheism lurking there.

It's goal is to destroy any semblance of absolute morality in the universe. Many times it hides behind the name "progressive" but it does not progress man towards an absolute vision instead it changes the vision to meet man. Regressives would be a more apt term. This is why behavior that was unthinkable years ago is now seen as the norm, we did not suddenly become enlightened and progress rather the norm was regressed towards that behavior.

The more Christianity is pounded upon the stronger my faith becomes, he that shall remain nameless does not beat upon dead horses.

19 posted on 09/03/2012 2:11:10 AM PDT by this_ol_patriot
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To: Joseph Harrolds

Do you know what a tenant is? It’s the opposite of a landlord.


20 posted on 09/03/2012 2:15:58 AM PDT by Misterioso (The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it. — Ayn Rand)
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To: Joseph Harrolds; Misterioso

tenets not tenants


21 posted on 09/03/2012 2:37:36 AM PDT by MEG33 (O Lord, Guide Our Nation)
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To: MasterGunner01
Thanks

I remembered there was a bit of controversy around her death for some time.

22 posted on 09/03/2012 2:38:36 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: jocon307

Jocon—Evangelicals I know are not known for being shy.

My mommy taught me: “Never discuss politics and religion in public.”

That advice has helped me to live long and prosper.

Aggressive atheists are the dumb ones.


23 posted on 09/03/2012 2:51:36 AM PDT by cgbg (No bailouts for New York and California. Let them eat debt.)
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To: MEG33

Mea culpa.


24 posted on 09/03/2012 2:57:42 AM PDT by Joseph Harrolds
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To: loboinok

> If they don’t believe in God, what is it they are getting
> all worked up about?

They think that belief in God is responsible for most of the evil and killing in the world.

I say it depends on which god.

The One that says “do unto others as you would have them do unto you,” and “Love them that hate you, bless them that curse you, pray for them that hurt you,” or the demonic entities that promote killing of those who refuse to believe in them, e.g. “allah”.

And atheism is responsible for at least as many murders as any other religion.


25 posted on 09/03/2012 3:24:31 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: Joseph Harrolds
That's ok too. But here is my completely unsolicited advice. Hehe

Mr H. if you ever feel a sparkling joy that makes your heart feel light as a feather...

If you ever feel like caving-in but you find just enough strength and renewed determination to make it through...

If you ever feel the crushing weight of a heavy sorrow drift away in a soothing breeze...

Don't waste a single moment considering philosophical positions. Just be joyful, strengthened and soothed. :)

26 posted on 09/03/2012 3:36:05 AM PDT by Casie
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To: jocon307

The roots of atheism are almost always moral not intellectual.


27 posted on 09/03/2012 3:53:27 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: jocon307

Athiesm+ seems to be an attempt to inject “social justice” into the organization. Some of the young I have heard from scoff at the move. They also scoff at the idea of forming a organized group in general.


28 posted on 09/03/2012 4:30:39 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: jocon307

I must post this gem from the article.

“Fellow Freethought blogger Richard Carrier goes further. When one commentator suggests “atheism does not have the luxury of kicking people out of its movement”, Carrier gives him a rare old quilting in most splendid prose:

“Yes, it does. Atheism+ is our movement. We will not consider you a part of it, we will not work with you, we will not befriend you. We will heretofore denounce you as the irrational or immoral scum you are (if such you are). If you reject these values, then you are no longer one of us. And we will now say so, publicly and repeatedly. You are hereby disowned.”


29 posted on 09/03/2012 4:35:43 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: jocon307

I don’t know why atheists have become so aggressive lately


I get the general feeling that a growing number of atheists are questioning the underpinnings of their non-belief. It’s hard to look at the world around us and not think that, in reference to the Bible, things seem to have been foretold. I myself, have run the gamut of born and raised Catholic to Agnostic Theist now, I have returned to non-practicing Catholic, which will return to practicing sometime soon. There are a lot of scary things going on. Anyone who thinks can’t help but consider deitic existence.


30 posted on 09/03/2012 4:53:19 AM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
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To: Casie

Its so simple really. I am a Christian because I have yet to see any other way of living that gives people more joy in the good times, more strength in the hard times, and more comfort in our times of sorrow.


An excellent way to put it.


31 posted on 09/03/2012 4:54:39 AM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
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To: jocon307
Its a dissolution of the alliance between atheists and antitheists.
32 posted on 09/03/2012 4:57:48 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: jocon307
South Park was RIGHT as you can see in this VIDEO. This will eventually turn into a three-way atheist war between the Allied Atheist Alliance vs the United Atheist Alliance vs the Unified Atheist League.
33 posted on 09/03/2012 5:31:28 AM PDT by PJ-Comix (Beware the Rip in the Space/Time Continuum)
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To: jocon307

I see what’s really going on, here. Leftists cannot resist trying to co-opt *everything* into the leftist agenda.

This is why they are just incapable of doing “single subject” protests anymore, because all the agenda dummies show up to protest their own Moonbattery at the same time and it dilutes the message.

However, they’ve kind of maxed out, because most people have other interests than the leftist crapola, and when the dumbass leftists try to take over their organization, they schism it, so that the purists are on one side, and the leftist agenda types are on their own.

And the leftists hate that, because they want the entire organization, not just the dregs they have taken over. Without everybody else supporting them, they are nothing. They cannot contribute, they only take away.

They become parasites without hosts.

And now, it appears, they are doing it to atheists.

Haw-haw.


34 posted on 09/03/2012 7:55:02 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Joseph Harrolds

“Because it conforts me” is a close cousin of Pascal’s wager, which is “because it’s a safe bet.”


35 posted on 09/03/2012 8:41:37 AM PDT by Erasmus (Zwischen des Teufels und des tiefen, blauen Meers)
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To: MEG33

Sorry, that was my error. I should have googled!


36 posted on 09/03/2012 9:23:56 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: Erasmus

Yes, although Pascal’s Wager is easily refuted. Because It Comforts Me...not so much!


37 posted on 09/03/2012 9:27:44 AM PDT by Joseph Harrolds
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To: listenhillary

Yes, I liked the author’s comment on that also (edited a little as you’ll see):

“How like Pope Leo’s letter to the patriarch of Constaninople in 1053 accusing him of “many and intolerable presumptions, in which if – as heaven forbid – he persist, he will in no way retain our peaceful regard”. Even at this most serious moment for the future of Christianity, the pope managed to resist the urge to call the patriarch immoral scum, an *sshole and a d**chebag.”


38 posted on 09/03/2012 9:28:28 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: Pontiac
Wasn’t her own son suspected of her murder?

I don't think so. I know that she said she would shoot any of her children if any one of them ever became a Christian. Her oldest son, the one in whose name she battled prayer in schools for, became a Baptist minister.

39 posted on 09/03/2012 10:20:53 AM PDT by Slyfox
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To: MasterGunner01
Atheists do not believe in God. How is it possible to have a split between Atheists?

I am an atheist and I HATE other atheists!!! Most of them are super liberal Government worshipers. The liberal atheists try to shove their (non) beliefs down other peoples' throats, and that is just wrong IMO. I would much rather hang out with Christians than other atheists.

40 posted on 09/03/2012 11:15:16 AM PDT by America_Right (Remember, Republicans have a lot more in common with Democrats than they do with Tea Partiers.)
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