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Wagon Train Descendants tell tale of 1857 massacre in Utah
1857 Massacre.com Truth Outreach ^ | August 8, 2007 | Deborah Gertz Husar

Posted on 09/10/2012 6:58:49 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon

Wagon Train Descendants tell tale of 1857 massacre in Utah

Taping an episode of WTJR's "Truth Outreach" with host Rocky Hulse, the four men forgot about the cameras.

They didn't forget their story.

A massacre in 1857 in southwest Utah claimed the lives of some of their ancestors. What came to be called the Mountain Meadows Massacre shadows each generation, but Scott Fancher said the public knows little of "one of the single most important historical incidents" in the nation's history.

"Apart from the Oklahoma City bombing, this was the single largest act of domestic white-on-white violence in the history of the U.S.," he said.

The 150th anniversary of the massacre on Sept. 11 renews the push by Scott Fancher, Bob Fancher, Phil Bolinger, Ron Wright and the Mountain Meadows Massacre Foundation to boost awareness and gain federal stewardship of the property where the events occurred.

The effort pits the foundation against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints , which controls the burial sites and, the men say, has never taken responsibility for the deaths of 120 men, women and children.

Scott Fancher said perpetrators included church leaders and militia members. "They have never once apologized to the families of the massacred victims," he said. "We think frankly it's high damn time."

Alexander Fancher thought it was time to start a new life as a rancher in California in 1857. He gathered up 140 people — mostly relatives who were Methodists, not LDS members — and left Arkansas with 40 wagons, close to 1,000 cattle and 200 horses.

The Fanchon-Baker train was one of the wealthiest and best-provisioned wagon trains to make the trip through Kansas , then onto Salt Lake City and southwest Utah.

"What they didn't know probably was at the time Utah Territory was in rebellion against the U.S.," Bob Fanchon said.

"This wagon train happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time," Bolinger said.

The train was besieged by Indians and local Mormons dressed as Indians. Fighting lasted until Sept. 11, when John D. Lee, representing the Mormons and the adopted son of Mormon leader Brigham Young , rode into the wagon camp under a white flag. Lee said the Indians would allow train member to leave, unarmed and without their possessions, under a Mormon escort.

The wagon train members — women holding their infants, children under the age of eight in one group, older children in another group and the men with individual Mormon escorts — walked along a one-mile stretch away from the wagons. Then a signal was given, and all but the youngest were massacred.

"The men mostly were lucky enough to be shot at point-blank range. The women and children, most of them received a billy club to the head," Bolinger said.

The attackers not only took the wagons and all the goods, but stripped the bodies of clothing and jewelry, Bob Fanchon said, and the bodies were left on the ground. The surviving children were taken in by Mormon families.

"It was such a horrible mess. They rerouted the wagon train (route) several miles so they wouldn't be able to smell the stink of the rot," Bolinger said.

U.S. Army Maj. James Carleton led the investigation of the incident. Carleton buried the dead in four mass graves, including one that came to be known as the Carleton Cairn marked with a cross, along the mile-long killing field. He testified before Congress and the Army returned the surviving children to their families in Arkansas in 1859.

Fifty-four warrants were issued, but Lee was the only one arrested.

"To this day, he was the only one out of the 50-plus clubbers and shooters that were on the killing field that day ever tried, convicted, executed and held responsible," Bolinger said.

"For the longest time, the Indians were blamed wrongly, the emigrants themselves were blamed," Scott Fanchon said. "More recently, the LDS church to its credit has admitted at least local Mormons were involved which we've all known."

The original cairn was destroyed and rebuilt several times. The most recent monument was built in 1999 by the church.

"It has a little plaque embedded in it the basically says the site is owned and maintained by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints . That's all the interpretation we get for the victims, for our families," Bolinger said.

Bolinger said the foundation won some initial support from Elder Marlin Jensen, the church's liaison with massacre descendant organizations, but lost that after church leadership declared it was "not in the best interest of the church" to pursue federal stewardship.

As a compromise, the foundation has asked the church to consider national historic landmark designation as a way to protect and preserve the site.

"The LDS church as an institution promotes many of its historic sites to be designated including Nauvoo and Temple Square," Scott Fanchon said. "When they say we don't want the federal government involved, we say it's a bit hypocritical."

Church spokespeople in Salt Lake City did not return a call from The Herald-Whig.

In a June story by the Associated Press, spokeswoman Kim Farah said Mormon leaders are committed to appropriately preserving the site.

"The church has owned the monument site at Mountain Meadows for many years. The property is open to the public, and considerable time and resources are allocated to ensure that the property is well-maintained, open to the public, and that those who perished there are appropriately remembered," she said.

In the same article, Bolinger said it's not right for the church to own the site. "How do you think the Kennedy family would feel if the Lee Harvey Oswald family had control of the Kennedy tomb?"


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; History; Islam; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Worship
KEYWORDS: christian; inman; lds; massacre; mormon; mormonism
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1 posted on 09/10/2012 6:59:03 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon
"Apart from the Oklahoma City bombing, this was the single largest act of domestic white-on-white violence in the history of the U.S.," he said. The 150th anniversary of the massacre on Sept. 11 renews the push by Scott Fancher, Bob Fancher, Phil Bolinger, Ron Wright and the Mountain Meadows Massacre Foundation to boost awareness and gain federal stewardship of the property where the events occurred.

The effort pits the foundation against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints , which controls the burial sites and, the men say, has never taken responsibility for the deaths of 120 men, women and children. Scott Fancher said perpetrators included church leaders and militia members. "They have never once apologized to the families of the massacred victims," he said. "We think frankly it's high damn time."

Ping for later

2 posted on 09/10/2012 7:04:35 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (At the end of the day, you have to worship the god who can set you on fire.)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

***”The church has owned the monument site at Mountain Meadows for many years.***

Does the State of Utah have this site on their Utah road maps yet?

Are you aware that TWO other wagon trains were also attacked? The Shepherd Train and the Miltmore train. Both suffered loss of life in those attacks and the people said the attackers were white men dressed as Indians.

Do you know that local mormons considered the Mountain Meadows site haunted for many years.

Fancher owned 200 acres of property here in Arkansas about two miles south of me.


3 posted on 09/10/2012 7:07:49 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Alex Murphy

BookMark


4 posted on 09/10/2012 7:18:09 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

Smells like Axelrod and company.


5 posted on 09/10/2012 7:18:31 PM PDT by caper gal 1
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

I remember seeing a movie with Jon Voight and Dean Cain about this topic a few years ago.


6 posted on 09/10/2012 7:23:34 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

This has been posted and re-posted, it is old news.

Why don’t you post something about the Governors of these two States of Missouri and Illinois posting bounties for the scalps of any Mormon, man, woman or child that is truly barbaric. Their only crime was being of the LDS Faith. LOOK IT UP!


7 posted on 09/10/2012 7:26:39 PM PDT by DeweyShootem
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon
When I was in college in the late 1960's, I wanted to go to southwestern Utah to see how deeply the Shivwits Paiutes were involved in the massacre. I wrote a man I'd met, a Southern Baptist pastor who had lived in the area for a number of years. I told him what I wanted to do, perhaps later submitting the resulting document for publication. I mailed the letter on Sunday. (In those days, it was possible to do that, and have it picked up that afternoon.) I had an answer back by Thursday. He basically said, "Don't go. There are first and second generation children of the perpetrators still alive, and they are very protective of their family reputations. I don't want to say that you would be in danger, but--just don't go.

I took the letter to the mother of an LDS girl I'd dated in high school. Their family was from the Beaver area. She read the letter. Then she folded it and put her hand on mine. "I'd say he gave you good advice."

Having by that time a wife and two sons, I didn't go.
8 posted on 09/10/2012 7:26:59 PM PDT by righttackle44 (I may not be much, but I raised a United States Marine.)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

A 5 year old article about a 157 year old incident.

What is your agenda?


9 posted on 09/10/2012 7:28:00 PM PDT by SnuffaBolshevik (In a tornado, even turkeys can fly.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

I was not aware of of the other two other wagon trains attacked. Thanks. I will have to research this.

I was aware, however, that Brigham Young ordered the desecration of the cross atop of the original cairn marking the gravesite of the massacre’s Christian victims, and that despite numerous requests the LDS has refused to restore this Christian symbol over the grave of the Christian martyrs massacred by Mormons during this slaughter.

For more information on this desecration, click here:
http://1857massacre.com/MMM/brigham_young_desecrated.htm


10 posted on 09/10/2012 7:32:07 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Palin/Nugent '16)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon
I believe that the Mountain Meadows Massacre lies behind Arthur Conan Doyle's first Sherlock Holmes tale, A Study in Scarlet.


11 posted on 09/10/2012 7:41:46 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: SnuffaBolshevik

> A 5 year old article about a 157 year old incident.

Yes, as of tomorrow (Sept 11) EXACTLY 157 years.

> What is your agenda?

To have the cross restored to its rightful place atop the cairn marking the gravesite of the massacre’s Christian victims.

One would think that after 157 years the LDS would end the current desecration and allow its Christian victims to rest in peace.

“They shall grow not old,
as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them,
nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun
and in the morning
We will remember them.”


12 posted on 09/10/2012 7:42:53 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Palin/Nugent '16)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon
I guess I'll have to vote for Obama now.

Either that, or whatever opportunist rises to the "top" of the Constitution/American Independent/Alan Keyes Pyramid ... er ... Party.

13 posted on 09/10/2012 7:43:30 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: SnuffaBolshevik
A 5 year old article about a 157 year old incident.

Do we know for certain that Romney didn't order this attack? It might be in his tax records.

14 posted on 09/10/2012 7:46:50 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: SampleMan
"Do we know for certain that Romney didn't order this attack? It might be in his tax records."

The snake wrestlers just can't let it go.

They will reap the whirlwind just like the rest of us.

15 posted on 09/10/2012 7:52:06 PM PDT by SnuffaBolshevik (In a tornado, even turkeys can fly.)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: NorthernCrunchyCon

Well, you became a member of this forum in Feb 2012. I reviewed your postings since April (one page’s worth of forum search results). Since that time you’ve been on an anti-Romney jihad. My opinion is that you’ll shed no tears (except perhaps tears of joy) should Obama win reelection.

I think I’ll work a little harder to elect conservatives and Republicans in November’s election in your honor.


17 posted on 09/10/2012 7:54:23 PM PDT by House Atreides
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: NorthernCrunchyCon
[”. . .this was the single largest act of domestic white-on-white violence in the history of the U.S.”]

The Kansas-Missouri squabble beginning in the 1850’s left a lot of people dead. William Quantrill’s raid on Lawrence, Kansas in 1863 killed roughly 200 people.

And what's this about “white-on-white violence?” Do white-on-black or white-on-indian massacres rate lower on the moral scale?

19 posted on 09/10/2012 7:56:30 PM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: SnuffaBolshevik

Somebody post pics of the Muslims bringing down the WTC in the name of Allah, it’s about 150 years more current.

Barack Obama said the Muslim call to prayer is “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth.” In an interview with The New York Times, Obama recited, “Allah is supreme, Allah is supreme, Allah is supreme, Allah is supreme. I witness that there is no god but Allah.”


20 posted on 09/10/2012 7:56:37 PM PDT by 1035rep (Obama: "I killed Bin Laden" ...you didn't do that. Somebody else made that happen.)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

By the way, you’re VERY transparent. You should have made more of an effort to establish your bona fides here.


21 posted on 09/10/2012 7:56:57 PM PDT by House Atreides
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To: SampleMan

Actually, since you raise the issue, Romney has a very interesting historical connection to the massacre. Mormons carried out the massacre out of vengeance for the killing of Parley Pratt - of whom both Romney and Jon Huntsman are direct descendents and cousins.

Pratt was killed by the angry husband of a woman that Pratt had seduced and engaged in an adulterous affair with under the guise of “plural marriage” and Pratt’s close connection with Joseph Smith Jr. Pratt had convinced her to run off with him and, if I recall correctly, take the man’s children with her.


22 posted on 09/10/2012 7:57:56 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Palin/Nugent '16)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon
"Apart from the Oklahoma City bombing, this was the single largest act of domestic white-on-white violence in the history of the U.S." Yea, that whole "Civil War" thing was such a metrosexual slapping contest...
23 posted on 09/10/2012 7:58:50 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon
"Pratt had convinced her to run off with him and, if I recall correctly, take the man’s children with her."

If I recall correctly, your mom had an affinity with the sailors of the 7th fleet.

Or maybe I was mistaken.

24 posted on 09/10/2012 8:09:07 PM PDT by SnuffaBolshevik (In a tornado, even turkeys can fly.)
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To: House Atreides

“I think I’ll work a little harder to elect conservatives and Republicans in November’s election in your honor.”

Cool! But don’t do it for me. Do it for the country and future generations.

I’m supporting several conservatives locally who running under the GOP. But I refuse to support RINOs any longer.


25 posted on 09/10/2012 8:10:30 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Palin/Nugent '16)
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To: Brad from Tennessee

That whole Kansas-Missouri border war, which started before the Civil War and got really blood-drenched during the Civil War, saw hundreds and hundreds of non-combatant people killed in savage guerilla attacks on towns and outposts.

Quantrill was certainly one of the more prolific killers at that time and place..


26 posted on 09/10/2012 8:11:10 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: SnuffaBolshevik

My mom was a stay-at-home mother who never took a penny from the state. You’ve just insulted her. Obviously you’re a democrat.


27 posted on 09/10/2012 8:14:48 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Palin/Nugent '16)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

“.....I’m supporting several conservatives locally who running under the GOP......”
*********************************************************************
Since your postings give absolutely no evidence of that, I choose not to believe this little proclamation.


28 posted on 09/10/2012 8:16:08 PM PDT by House Atreides
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

Obviously you’re dense.

You’re stretching the envelope on Romney/Meadow mountain and I was just pointing that out.
I’m sure your mom is a wonderful woman. You, however, didn’t make the cut.
Go back to snake twisting.


29 posted on 09/10/2012 8:21:35 PM PDT by SnuffaBolshevik (In a tornado, even turkeys can fly.)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

“.....But I refuse to support RINOs any longer.”
************************************************************
Any longer? I’ve searched your posting history and find no evidence that you’ve ever supported RINOs—or ANY Republicans (conservative or not) for that matter. So pardon me for my total disbelief. “Ye shall know them by their fruits.”


30 posted on 09/10/2012 8:22:22 PM PDT by House Atreides
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

How about some research and posts on the massacres by odingo’s relatives in kenya?

Or are you just on an anti-Mormon Jihad?


31 posted on 09/10/2012 8:22:29 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: House Atreides

That’s not an argument I can engage. Only you would know what you believe.

Having said that, what is it about the Mountain Meadow Massacre and the desecration of the final resting place of its Christian victims that makes you uncomfortable?


32 posted on 09/10/2012 8:23:55 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Palin/Nugent '16)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

The creibility went right out the window with the statement “Apart from the Oklahoma City bombing, this was the single largest act of domestic white-on-white violence in the history of the U.S.,” .

Was the War of Northern Aggression just a figment of our imagination???


33 posted on 09/10/2012 8:26:42 PM PDT by X-spurt (It is truly time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: All

The logic of this and other anti-Mormon threads is simply this: Mormons were not perfect in the 19th century. Therefore vote Obama, and subject America to four more years of Marxist adventurism and possible economic collapse.

In other words, there is no logic.


34 posted on 09/10/2012 8:32:55 PM PDT by Peter ODonnell (E pluribus biden)
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To: Peter ODonnell; All

Not sure what any of this has to do with Romney vs. Obama, but anyway...

No. Don’t vote for Obama. I would think it obvious after four years that he is just as bad as Romney. And even if this was not the case, Obama’s fanatical support for pre-natal infanticide (including of the partial birth variety) makes him anathema to any decent conservative voter. (Although not Rockefeller Republicans like Mitt’s mother.)

The best course of action is to support conservatives downticket.


35 posted on 09/10/2012 8:38:44 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Palin/Nugent '16)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

There have been numerous recent attempts to place a cross on the Mountain Meadows Massacre victims’ monument. The cross gets torn down every single time.

What is it about Mormons & the cross?

No, I don’t think Mitt Romney’s LDS faith will be the basis for the Dems’ expected October Surprise. The 1857 massacre is a separate & living issue from that day to this.

There are mostly plain everyday Mormons like Mitt and there are the Nazi Mormons of the Intermountain Corridor stretching from Utah to Idaho. These are the cross desecrators.


36 posted on 09/10/2012 9:10:16 PM PDT by elcid1970 (Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind. Deus vult!)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadow_massacre
... At his sentencing, as required by Utah Territory statute, he was given the option of being hanged, shot, or beheaded, and he chose to be shot.[33] In 1877, before being executed by firing squad at Mountain Meadows, Lee professed that he was a scapegoat for others involved.[34] (Brigham) Young stated that Lee's fate was just, but not a sufficient blood atonement, given the enormity of the crime. ...

Why Mormonism Is Not Christian
by Leonard C. Albert
http://www.laityalive.wordpress.com/
3/07/2012
... The biblical teaching on blood atonement is that the shedding of blood is required for forgiveness of sin (Hebrews 9:22). The Bible teaches that the blood of Christ cleanses from "all sin" (1 John 1:7). Early Mormon theology, however, teaches that for certain sins the blood of Christ alone does not avail and the person's own blood must be shed for atonement. Under the section, "Blood Atonement," of the book, Mormon Doctrine, LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote, "… there are some serious sins for which the cleansing of Christ does not operate, and the law of God is that men must then have their own blood shed to atone for their sins." The 10th Mormon prophet, Joseph Fielding Smith, in Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. I, page 135 says, "Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgression beyond the power of atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore, their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone as far as possible in their behalf." Think back to Gary Gilmore executed by a firing squad in 1977 at Utah State Prison in Draper. Think back to John Albert Taylor executed in Utah in 1996 and Ronnie Lee Gardner executed in Utah in 2010 - all by firing squads. The prevailing belief is that in its early history, Utah used a firing squad because it allows 1 to "shed his own blood." ...

37 posted on 09/10/2012 9:20:24 PM PDT by MacNaughton
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

Frankly, in the larger scheme of things, nobody gives a rat’s ass.


38 posted on 09/10/2012 10:00:20 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Congrats to Ted Kennedy! He's been sober for two years now!!)
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To: ReformationFan
I remember seeing a movie with Jon Voight and Dean Cain about this topic a few years ago.

Yes, a very good movie:

September Dawn (2007)

39 posted on 09/10/2012 11:56:04 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

What makes me uncomfortable you ask? Annoyed is a more apt description. Annoyed at the presence of transparent trolls here. The following from post 34 above pretty well captures it:

**********
The logic of this and other anti-Mormon threads is simply this: Mormons were not perfect in the 19th century. Therefore vote Obama, and subject America to four more years of Marxist adventurism and possible economic collapse.

In other words, there is no logic.
**********


40 posted on 09/11/2012 2:25:53 AM PDT by House Atreides
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon
Actually, since you raise the issue,...

Really? I raise the issue? I guess your reposting of a very old article concerning an event that happened over six generations ago, was happenstance. And just coincidental that you happen to know the genealogical details of Romney's connection to it.

But, as I appear to have also brought up the issue of ancestral guilt, SO WHAT OF IT!? Unless you can prove a non-branching (possible) family tree of purity back to the beginnings of time, you are most definitely the genealogical remnant of heathens, murderers, rapists, and thieves. What have you got to say for yourself?

41 posted on 09/11/2012 5:10:20 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: DeweyShootem
Why don’t you post something about the Governors of these two States of Missouri and Illinois posting bounties for the scalps of any Mormon, man, woman or child that is truly barbaric. Their only crime was being of the LDS Faith. LOOK IT UP!

Respectfully, do you have a historical source for that claim?

The only time I've ever seen the claim was in the book of Mormon lore called "In the Company of Angels," which claimed that the Illinois Legislature (not Governor) enacted the bounty in 1846. The book cited no source for the claim.

I've never seen the claim made in any book of Mormon or American history by an LDS historian, and I've certainly never seen the text of either of the two bounties you allege.

42 posted on 09/11/2012 10:07:35 AM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon
I'm hearing from the critics that apparently it is inappropriate to raise a religious topic on the religion forum if it can reflect badly on Romney. All topics related to Mormonism have been topics of discussion on the FR religion forum since long before Mitt Romney ever decided to run for POTUS.

If you spend time on the religion forum, you'd learn that the regular posters here are Christians first, conservatives second, and Republicans third. We're not going to stop pointing out that Mormonism is not Christianity just because it might hurt the Republican candidate (who has never had a conservative political thought in his life). Concerns for the distant third loyalty are not going trump the much stronger first two loyalties.

43 posted on 09/11/2012 10:32:57 AM PDT by CommerceComet (Obama vs. Romney - clear evidence that our nation has been judged by God and found wanting.)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

You religious people are nuts!


44 posted on 09/11/2012 10:35:34 AM PDT by McGruff (Support your local Republican candidates. They are our last line of defense.)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

I should have made it clear in post #43, I was directing that at your critics and not you. I shouldn’t have used “you” in the second paragraph when I meant “the critics.” Sorry for any confusion - I was in a hurry to get my thoughts posted and should have slowed down and proofread more carefully.


45 posted on 09/11/2012 10:37:47 AM PDT by CommerceComet (Obama vs. Romney - clear evidence that our nation has been judged by God and found wanting.)
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To: DeweyShootem
Why don’t you post something about the Governors of these two States of Missouri and Illinois posting bounties for the scalps of any Mormon, man, woman or child that is truly barbaric.

Probably because they don't exist dewey.

46 posted on 09/11/2012 11:22:13 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: CommerceComet; All

CommerceComet wrote: “If you spend time on the religion forum, you’d learn that the regular posters here are Christians first, conservatives second, and Republicans third. We’re not going to stop pointing out that Mormonism is not Christianity just because it might hurt the Republican candidate (who has never had a conservative political thought in his life). Concerns for the distant third loyalty are not going trump the much stronger first two loyalties.”

Well said.

As Christian voters we have too often been betrayed by RINOs and CINOs once in office.

The arguments used by the Rombots to scare up votes for their candidate (Did Reagan ever have to point out he was better than Carter?) are eerily similar to those used by the Cameronbots in England to scare up votes against an inept Gordon Brown and Labor Party.

So how has electing the CINO Cameron as British Prime Minister worked out for English Christians and conservatives?

Here’s a clue:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2928990/posts

The only thing that has changed is that Christians and conservatives in Britain are now being persecuted by politicians with “C” after their name rather than politicians with “L” after their name.


47 posted on 09/11/2012 11:48:36 AM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Palin/Nugent '16)
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To: SampleMan

> What have you got to say for yourself?

What do I have to say for myself?

I find it interesting how much more thinned-skin, conspiracy-minded and trigger-happy ROMbots are than Ronbots whenever they sense the least slight towards, criticism of failure to enthusiastically embrace their candidate. It seems Rombot fanaticism is nearing the same level as Pakistan’s anti-blasphemy law.


48 posted on 09/11/2012 12:00:21 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Palin/Nugent '16)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

Least slight? Did you choke on that?

My last choice was Romney, but he’s now the only choice.

You antics are pure BS. What is your goal with this crap? Please do share, and don’t insult us with a lie about how you “just happened to post this without even thinking of Romney...”

Have you already reposted an old story about his dog on the roof? If not, I’m sure you can find it over at Dummie-land.


49 posted on 09/11/2012 2:45:48 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: SampleMan

> What is your goal with this crap? Please do share, and
> don’t insult us with a lie about how you “just happened to
> post this without even thinking of Romney...”

Alright. You call. I am more than happy to lay down my hand.

I have two goals:

My first goal is to prevent the same type of RINO/CINO political persecution that British conservatives face under the rule of “Conservative” Prime Minister David Cameron:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2928990/posts

If this seems scary coming from “conservative” leadership, I note that Cameron’s record prior to being elected prime minister (as bad as it is) was nearly as liberal as Romney’s.

My second goal is fulfill a promise to myself and my children after the 2008 election that I would NEVER support the Trojan RINO who not only back-stabbed Gov. Palin in the lamestream media during the final weeks of campaign, but was willing to saddle us wit Obama for four years for no other reason than his ego.

Here’s a little reminder about how Romney’s people played Judas to conservative Republicans last time around and kingmaker to Obama and the Democrats:

http://spectator.org/archives/2008/10/27/post-defeat-planners

http://www.palmettoscoop.com/2008/11/06/former-romney-staffers-behind-palin-trashing/


50 posted on 09/11/2012 3:07:33 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Palin/Nugent '16)
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