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A Faded Piece of Papyrus Refers to Jesusí Wife (Written in Coptic in the fourth century)
New York Times ^ | 09/18/2012 | Laurie Goodstein

Posted on 09/18/2012 5:05:46 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — A historian of early Christianity at Harvard Divinity School has identified a scrap of papyrus that she says was written in Coptic in the fourth century and contains a phrase never seen in any piece of Scripture: “Jesus said to them, ‘My wife ...’ ”

The faded papyrus fragment is smaller than a business card, with eight lines on one side, in black ink legible under a magnifying glass. Just below the line about Jesus having a wife, the papyrus includes a second provocative clause that purportedly says, “she will be able to be my disciple.”

The finding was made public in Rome on Tuesday at an international meeting of Coptic scholars by Karen L. King, a historian who has published several books about new Gospel discoveries and is the first woman to hold the nation’s oldest endowed chair, the Hollis professor of divinity.

The provenance of the papyrus fragment is a mystery, and its owner has asked to remain anonymous. Until Tuesday, Dr. King had shown the fragment to only a small circle of experts in papyrology and Coptic linguistics, who concluded that it is most likely not a forgery. But she and her collaborators say they are eager for more scholars to weigh in and perhaps upend their conclusions.

Even with many questions unsettled, the discovery could reignite the debate over whether Jesus was married, whether Mary Magdalene was his wife and whether he had a female disciple. These debates date to the early centuries of Christianity, scholars say. But they are relevant today, when global Christianity is roiling over the place of women in ministry and the boundaries of marriage.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: History; Religion & Culture; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: academicbias; antichristian; conspiracytheory; davincicode; epigraphyandlanguage; faithandphilosophy; godsgravesglyphs; gospelofjesuswife; gospelofjohn; harvard; hewasarabbi; inman; jamescameron; jamesossuary; jesus; jesustomb; johnchapter2; letshavejerusalem; mariamne; marriageatcana; marymagdalene; papyrus; rabbismarry; religion; revisionisthistory; sectarianturmoil; simchajacobovici; talpiot; talpiottomb; weddingatcana; wife
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Professor Karen L. King, in her office at Harvard Divinity School, held a fragment of papyrus that she says was written in Coptic in the fourth century and contains a reference to Jesus' wife.
1 posted on 09/18/2012 5:05:53 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

2 posted on 09/18/2012 5:08:28 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (bOTRT)
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To: SeekAndFind

Will they never give up?


3 posted on 09/18/2012 5:09:32 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: SeekAndFind

That man sure dresses funny.

In all seriousness, wouldn’t Jesus’ wife be mentioned in the New Testament? It is a fairly in-depth account of his life. You would think they wouldn’t have missed something like that.


4 posted on 09/18/2012 5:09:59 PM PDT by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Didn’t Father Guido Sarducci, on SNL, produce a copy of the bill from “The Last Brunch”?


5 posted on 09/18/2012 5:11:20 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
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To: SeekAndFind
Big deal. A piece of 400 year-removed piece of papyrus would never had been considered for inclusion when the bible was canonized.

The Council of Carthage's standards for authenticity were much higher than the NYT's

6 posted on 09/18/2012 5:11:24 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: Jvette
Will they never give up?

Nope! These "academic" attacks on Christianity will continue. And since Jesus is not going to go away, we can only hope that these "scholars" will go away.

7 posted on 09/18/2012 5:11:50 PM PDT by laweeks
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To: SeekAndFind

Blasphemy! Burn the embassies!


8 posted on 09/18/2012 5:12:42 PM PDT by Rebelbase (The most transparent administration ever is clear as mud.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I can only pray that I’m found worthy to be accounted the bride of Christ, and to be his faithful disciple,

These people have no spirit or understanding, and and the night is coming,

“Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,” Romans 1:22


9 posted on 09/18/2012 5:14:09 PM PDT by captmar-vell
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To: SeekAndFind

My faith is utterly shattered. I must now go out and fight for “gay marriage.” /s


10 posted on 09/18/2012 5:14:33 PM PDT by Oratam
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To: laweeks

Nope, they won’t go away either. They just keep trying to make Jesus into what they need him to be so that they feel justified in their miserable lives.


11 posted on 09/18/2012 5:18:13 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: SeekAndFind

Professor Karen L. King, in her office at Harvard Divinity School.

“Karen, I never knew you.”


12 posted on 09/18/2012 5:19:08 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
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To: SeekAndFind

I guess that would explain why Da Vinci included a woman in his painting of the Last Supper.


13 posted on 09/18/2012 5:19:31 PM PDT by FReepaholic (Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.)
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To: SeekAndFind

“Jesus said to them, ‘My wife ...take her please.’ ”

I’ll be in town all week.


14 posted on 09/18/2012 5:20:53 PM PDT by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: SeekAndFind

“Jesus said to them, ‘My wife ..

...is the Church.’”

Really. For 1 thing, this artifact is a bit late to the discussion. It could be a copy of earlier scripts, but it could also be something made up much later.

For the other - as above, it could be the “Jesus is the husband and His bride is the Church” turned a different way.


15 posted on 09/18/2012 5:21:17 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Even with many questions unsettled, the discovery could reignite the debate over whether Jesus was married,

What questions? What debate?

There has never been any questions or debate about Jesus having a wife.

DAN BROWN’s book is FICTION!!!!!!!!!

LOL, pray for them.


16 posted on 09/18/2012 5:21:19 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: SeekAndFind

It’s Greek to me.


17 posted on 09/18/2012 5:24:11 PM PDT by Pamlico (Oppose 0bama at every opportunity)
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To: SeekAndFind

“Jesus said to them, ‘My wife ...’ ”

Might have been a migrant crop picker from Mexico too.... ;-)


18 posted on 09/18/2012 5:27:24 PM PDT by Average Al (The Democrat party is a free range zoo.)
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To: Huskrrrr

Any time you are near one of these “Intellectuals” carry a one iron. Even God can’t hit a one iron./sarc


19 posted on 09/18/2012 5:28:23 PM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Jvette
Will they never give up?

Are you kidding? There are plenty of people out there who refuse to believe that Jesus existed. And I'm not talking about whether or not He was the Son of God, but whether or not there was a person/philosopher/teacher whose life story serves as the basis for the "stories" of the gospels.

How Peter could have founded some kind of papal dynasty with a "fable" for a central figure is beyond my reasoning.

20 posted on 09/18/2012 5:29:51 PM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Rome didn't fall in a day, either.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Meanwhile if you bring up Mohammed’s child bride Islamists will riot and murder (because they too want one but don’t like the universal scorn).


21 posted on 09/18/2012 5:31:06 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Obama likes to claim credit for getting Osama. Why hasn't he tried Khalid Sheikh Mohammed yet?)
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To: Jvette

To me? It only makes perfect sense that he had a wife and family.

Much of the faith and its continuity is based and central to a strong family. This means marriage, fidelity etc etc between a man and a woman.

Where the perversion exists is in writing women out of the picture. Kinda like the muslims still do, but writing them in as property.


22 posted on 09/18/2012 5:32:09 PM PDT by himno hero (hadnuff)
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To: SeekAndFind
In 1978, my Girl Scout troop buried a time capsule and on my picture I wrote my name and under it President of the United States. 2,000 years from now, I will be revered for the powerful position I held. It happens to be buried near where an actual President was born, so when you take what little data can be accumulated after 2,000 years, I'll probably be considered right up there with the Pharaohs, Julius Caesar and Socrates.
23 posted on 09/18/2012 5:32:15 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: Jvette
When I read Dan Brown's book, as a purely fictional mystery, I at least expected a decent story line. Instead I got about 500 pages of the main characters acting like there was this big secret that had to be proved because the public had to know. Then as soon as they found the “proof” they conspired to keep it secret from all mankind. Duh! I tossed the book all the way across my living room. Ok, I threw it. A waste of my time.
24 posted on 09/18/2012 5:45:23 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: PLMerite

Try the gefilte fish and tip your Pharisee.


25 posted on 09/18/2012 5:45:26 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: SeekAndFind

Poor thing. She looks like she’s had a stroke.


26 posted on 09/18/2012 5:51:03 PM PDT by Mercat
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To: SeekAndFind

It makes sense that Jesus would have a wife. Jesus was addressed as Rabbi by his followers. Since Jesus was a Jew and would have followed Jewish law, Jewish law stated that you cannot be a Rabbi unless you are married.


27 posted on 09/18/2012 5:54:23 PM PDT by BuffaloJack (Those who pay no taxes and depend upon government are Government PETS.)
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To: Jvette
No, they will never give up. Jesus told his believers that we always would suffer. This woman holds up a piece of papyrus about the size of a pack of cigarettes, and then claims that it is testimony that Jesus had a wife and a woman disciple. Trouble is that little scrap of paper was written upon at least 400 years after Jesus. Funny, how two of the Gospels which were written by his Apostles never seem to mention that. Nor does any other writer at that time. Nor did St. Peter or St. Paul.
28 posted on 09/18/2012 6:01:17 PM PDT by CdMGuy
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To: SeekAndFind

Is that a photo of former Senator Fred Thompson in drag?


29 posted on 09/18/2012 6:02:07 PM PDT by CdMGuy
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To: SeekAndFind

Does this mean that priests can marry now? And since we’ve skipped over the definition of marriage and changed it, can they now marry their male or female lovers?

Is this where this is going?


30 posted on 09/18/2012 6:04:04 PM PDT by Auntie Mame (Fear not tomorrow. God is already there.)
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To: Huskrrrr

And what if you’re wrong? Salvation doesn’t depend on this.


31 posted on 09/18/2012 6:04:15 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ √ě)
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To: BuffaloJack
RE: Jewish law stated that you cannot be a Rabbi unless you are married.

I have asked Orthodox rabbis they cannot find a requirement in the Talmud that requires a rabbit to be married.

However, they did find two talmudic counter-examples:

Sotah 4b says that Ben Azzai was unmarried.

On Kiddushin 71b R. Yehudah of Pumbeditha is asked why his son, R. Yitzchak, is not yet married (and is an adult).

Kiddushin 82a does argue that an unmarried man cannot teach children, but this appears to be a concern about the appearance of impropriety, not a question about his ability or knowledge.

So no, rabbis are NOT required to be married.

Rambam Hilchot Ishut 15:3

מי שחשקה נפשו בתורה תמיד ושגה בה כבן עזאי ונדבק בה כל ימיו ולא נשא אשה אין בידו עון והוא שלא יהיה יצרו מתגבר עליו, אבל אם היה יצרו מתגבר עליו חייב לישא אשה ואפילו היו לו בנים שמא יבוא לידי הרהור.‏

Someone who wished to only study Torah his whole life like Ben Azzai (See Monica Cellio's answer) and clings to it his whole life and never married, he does not have a sin on his hands. This only applies if his desires do not get the better of him, but if he cannot control his desires he must marry, even if he has children [from a previous marriage].

According to Rambam, getting married is highly recommended, even for a rabbi, but is not an absolute requirement.
32 posted on 09/18/2012 6:05:10 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (bOTRT)
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To: BuffaloJack; PJBankard; scottjewell; ebb tide; Sirius Lee; lilycicero; MaryLou1; glock rocks; ...
It makes sense that Jesus would have a wife. Jesus was addressed as Rabbi by his followers. Since Jesus was a Jew and would have followed Jewish law, Jewish law stated that you cannot be a Rabbi unless you are married.
Uh, no. Not even close. But keep trying, it gives us a good laugh now and then.
33 posted on 09/18/2012 6:08:47 PM PDT by narses
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To: SeekAndFind

Good rundown on Jewish law.

It’s my understanding that the Jewish word ‘rabbi’ is synonymous with the Christian word ‘pastor’—they both mean ‘teacher’, and when Jesus was referred to as ‘rabbi’ it was meant as a term of respect to a great teacher.


34 posted on 09/18/2012 6:09:43 PM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: SeekAndFind

So what? Yeshua was a VERY common name in Israel.


35 posted on 09/18/2012 6:10:38 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.)
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To: BuffaloJack

I don’t know if that’s true, but even so...

...there is “addressed as” and there is actually “BEING” a “rabbi”.


36 posted on 09/18/2012 6:10:47 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: SeekAndFind

She looks like Church Lady on SNL. :)


37 posted on 09/18/2012 6:11:13 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: SeekAndFind

In 2003, this lady wrote “The Gospel of Mary of Magdela: Jesus and the First Woman Apostle”. She now says she has her proof. Actually, she has a piece of papyrus, the name Jesus, the words wife and disciple in a small paragraph. No one knows the provenance of the papyrus and it is estimated to have been written 300-400 years after Jesus lived. Newspaper’s are now running with the story Jesus was married. No matter what you believe, this is “proof” of nothing and a Harvard Ph.D. should know not to present it as such. (I am a woman so no, I am not anti-woman.)


38 posted on 09/18/2012 6:17:59 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: SeekAndFind
But they are relevant today, when global Christianity is roiling over the place of women in ministry and the boundaries of marriage.

We are? Who knew!

Nothing new under the sun with this discovery. The world is full of false gospels. In fact, if you read the Bible you'll find that Paul and other apostles spent a great deal of their time stomping out these brush fires. If you wanted something of substance to pin feminist ideals on then Acts of Paul and Thecla will really float your boat. Like the scrap of text this woman found, it's a Coptic text dating from the 2nd century. Enjoy.

39 posted on 09/18/2012 6:20:54 PM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: Oratam
Well, at least she's not claiming he married a male apostle. That book will probably come out next year. She'll find “married” and “Judas” on a piece of papyrus and claim Judas never betrayed Jesus, it was a marital squabble over Judas spending all of his silver pieces at the mall.

Seriously, this woman has also written a lot about the Gnostics, who also believe there is a Gospel of Judas that paints Judas in a completely different light.

40 posted on 09/18/2012 6:30:27 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: BykrBayb

You’re quite right. I spoke in haste.


41 posted on 09/18/2012 6:31:04 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
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To: Huskrrrr

I know, it’s frustrating when people make claims like this.


42 posted on 09/18/2012 6:35:49 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ √ě)
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To: SeekAndFind
Until Tuesday, Dr. King had shown the fragment to only a small circle of experts in papyrology and Coptic linguistics, who concluded that it is most likely not a forgery

Until its proven 100% authentic to come from the time frame stated, it's fake. Even if it is authentic, it doesn't prove anything as it is only a fragment. The text could literally mean anything, as viewing from a fragment stand point is inconclusive. No reputable scholar would make a statement based on a message fragment.
43 posted on 09/18/2012 6:41:11 PM PDT by PJBankard (I told my friends I was heading to Octermocty for the weekend. They replied... "Wear the fox hat")
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To: SeekAndFind

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks SeekAndFind. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


44 posted on 09/18/2012 6:47:57 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: PJBankard

Then I guess Twitter will never be a reliable historic record. ;)


45 posted on 09/18/2012 6:50:02 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ √ě)
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To: Tanniker Smith

Just as He didn’t “fit” in His own time, He doesn’t “fit” in these times.

Some people will do all they can to deny Him, twist His words or try to remake Him according to their own philosophy.

It is a fool’s quest.

Jesus is eternal.


46 posted on 09/18/2012 7:17:45 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: himno hero

Women have not been written out of the picture.

That is a fallacy.

Women are mentioned many times in the New Testament and were among Jesus’ followers.

There is no perversion in the Gospels or the books of the NT that follow them.

To compare Christianity in any way to Islam is perverted.


47 posted on 09/18/2012 7:23:08 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: MacMattico

I wasted not a shred of time on that garbage even though people told me it was a “good read.”


48 posted on 09/18/2012 7:24:45 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Don Corleone
Any time you are near one of these “Intellectuals” carry a one iron. Even God can’t hit a one iron./sarc

seriously I just said this to the golf coach. He is taking some students to a tournament tomorrow, and I told him: "If it starts to rain ...."

He just laughed

49 posted on 09/18/2012 7:25:35 PM PDT by verga (Forced to remove tag line by administrator)
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To: CdMGuy
<<<<>>> Not funny, but an evil plot by men to deny women their rightful place and the power Jesus intended them to have. The written evidence of His marriage was quickly disposed of in order to keep women down.
50 posted on 09/18/2012 7:28:10 PM PDT by Jvette
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