Skip to comments.Pope: There May be Something Catholic, Even Outside the Catholic Church
Posted on 10/01/2012 6:49:44 AM PDT by marshmallow
Christians should not be jealous of the good that is done outside of the Catholic Church. Instead, the good that is done by the various ecclesial realities within the Church should be respected and appreciated. Using wealth "in solidarity and for the common good, ensuring equality and morality, at all levels." Appeal for refugees from the Democratic Republic of Congo. Tomorrow the Pope returns to the Vatican.
Castel Gandolfo (AsiaNews) - "Just as one can find that which is not Catholic in the Catholic Church - that is, in the Church -, one can also find something that may be Catholic outside of the Catholic Church ": this quote from St. Augustine (On Baptism, Against the Donatists: PL 43 , VII, 39, 77) was at the center of reflection that Benedict XVI offered to pilgrims gathered today in the Apostolic Palace of Castel Gandolfo during the Angelus. The Pope - as he often does - was referring to the episode narrated in the Gospel of the Sunday Mass (Mark 9: 39-41): "a man, who was not the followers of Jesus had cast out demons in his name. The Apostle John, young and zealous, wants to stop him, but Jesus will not allow him. "
"Jesus - continues the pope - is inspired by the opportunity to teach his disciples that God can bring about good and even miraculous things, even outside of their circle, and that one can cooperate with the Kingdom of God in several ways, even by offering a simple glass of water to a missionary (v. 41). "
Thus Benedict XVI underlined the "ecumenical" teaching of Jesus in our time: "Church members should not feel jealous, but rejoice if someone from outside the community do good in the name of Christ, provided this is done with right intention.....
(Excerpt) Read more at asianews.it ...
My Pope makes me proud with these comments, as I have often been upset with the Catholic Church on many levels.
the 9/30 mass readings covered this as well.
It has often been other Catholics that have upset me and I blamed the Church for them, unwisely I might add. It seems this Pope understands!
“... God can bring about good and even miraculous things, even outside of their circle, and that one can cooperate with the Kingdom of God in several ways ...”
Is this Pope acknowledging that I — a follower of Jesus Christ who is not a member of the Roman Catholic Church — can “cooperate with the Kingdom of God”?
The Pope is more gracious toward those outside his denomination than most Roman Catholics that I’ve engaged with here on Free Republic. It’s nice to hear such a generous sentiment from the Church of Rome.
That really was the essence of the 2nd ready at Sunday’s Mass where Jesus essentiall said do not denigrate (or stop) people from doing good in Jesus’ name even if they are not followers.
See # 7.
It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church Pope B16, Dominus Iesus
“The Pope is more gracious toward those outside his denomination than most Roman Catholics that Ive engaged with here on Free Republic.”
As far as Christian faiths claiming that another isnt Christian, theres a vocal minority of nonCatholic Christians who go beyond thinking the Catholic Church is wrong on many grave things to thinking Catholics arent Christians. FR actually bans some of the things produced from this mouth-breathing wackadoo-ism.
Makes me happy to be a thoroughly catholic Christian—just never in submission to the Bishop of Rome.
one can also find something that may be Catholic outside of the Catholic Church
Shouldn’t that be a “Catholic Christian” as the Pope said? (capital C)
“As far as Christian faiths claiming that another isnt Christian, theres a vocal minority of nonCatholic Christians who go beyond thinking the Catholic Church is wrong on many grave things to thinking Catholics arent Christians. FR actually bans some of the things produced from this mouth-breathing wackadoo-ism.”
Since many Catholics are not Christians, being a Catholic does not make one a Christian any more that being Italian makes one a Christian.
Being Baptist, or, (insert whatever denomination here) also does not make one a Christian.
Doing the will of the Heavenly Father makes one a Christian (according to Jesus).
(And what’s wrong with mouth-breathing...?)
Mark:9-At that time, John said to Jesus,
“Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name,
and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.”
Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him.
There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name
who can at the same time speak ill of me.
For whoever is not against us is for us.
Anyone who gives you a cup of water to drink
because you belong to Christ,
amen, I say to you, will surely not lose his reward.
If you believe in the following, then you are a Christian and will have eternal life. If you think that Jesus was just running His mouth and didn’t believe what came out of His mouth, you have problems with the Lord Jesus Christ, and need to take a serious look at your faith.
“I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.” The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him” ~ John 6:48-68.
“Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me. And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.
~Luke 22: 19-20
The comment was about labeling whole faiths. The Catholic Church is a Christian group, as are Baptists. Both have great sinners that claim the label, as well as great Christians who follow the tenets of of the faith, which are Christian tenets.
The comment about mouth breathing is for those who never learned to also breath through their nasal passsages, or have medical problems with breathing. This has the effect of usually leaving the mouth open, giving a dopey appearance. Perhaps because ‘uhhh’ and ‘duhhh’ are usuallay said with the mouth open, as well as facial expressions denoting shock and confusion. Now the term is used to denote a lack of intelligence. ‘Slack jawed’ is a similar term.
Why didn't you follow the "flesh and blood" discussion in John 6 with the communion account from the gospel of John?
I think it is different for Baptists, one has to actually be a Baptist, it isn't something that you are born into, or are baptized into as an infant. For an atheist to remain a member, or consider himself a non attending member of the Baptist denomination would be rare, a very strange thing.
You can’t be THOROUGHLY catholic without being Catholic. You’re not even orthodox, and I don’t mean Orthodox. If you’re not orthodox, then you’re not catholic.
But since the Pope is not speaking ex cathedra it's his own personal opinion and doesn't "count" according to some of those same people you speak of. It is remarkable in a way how much has changed since Pope Boniface VIII in 1302 issued his bull, Unam Sanctam. Under it he proclaimed that ONLY those who were in submission to the Pope of Rome and belong to the Roman Catholic Church could be saved. No one else outside of the RCC had any hope of salvation. It declares:
"If, therefore, the Greeks or others say that they are not committed to Peter and to his successors, they necessarily say that they are not of the sheep of Christ, since the Lord says that there is only one fold and one shepherd (Jn.10:16). Whoever, therefore, resists this authority, resists the command of God Himself. " Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302) http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html
This was but one of the many such papal encyclicals pronounced by Rome over the centuries. One of the latest ones, Lumen Gentium, takes an entirely different tack, which just could disprove that the Roman Catholic Church has always and everywhere believed the same things, that the Pope is infallible or that the Church never contradicts herself. From http://peacebyjesuscom.blogspot.com/2011/09/contradictions-in-roman-catholicism.html:
..there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (Cf. Jn. 16:13) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical [Protestant] communities
They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. LUMEN GENTIUM: 16.
those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church. All who have been justified by Faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ: they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church. http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html
Thankfully, there ARE several Catholics on Free Republic who, though we may disagree on various topics, fully accept us as genuine brothers and sisters in Christ and, for that, I am grateful. Siblings don't always get along but it shouldn't change our bond of love nor the oneness we have with Jesus Christ as our Chief Shepherd, our Lord and Savior.
Well, there are different sects of Roman Catholics, and at least the Traditional ones recognize the uncertain sound the the modern church of Rome has sounded, (http://peacebyjesuscom.blogspot.com/2011/09/contradictions-in-roman-catholicism.html; http://www.the-pope.com/wvat2tec.html) though the former version is more manifestly in doctrinally error.
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