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Pope’s ambition, a blend of the Novus Ordo and the Old Rite, could sweep Church [Catholic Caucus]
CatholicHerald.co.uk ^ | Friday, 20 May 2011 | William Oddie

Posted on 10/04/2012 4:23:16 PM PDT by Salvation

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Benedict XVI's Reform: The Liturgy Between Innovation and Tradition

Benedict XVI's Reform: The Liturgy Between Innovation and Tradition

by Nicola Bux

When Benedict XVI reestablished the celebration of the older Latin Mass, voices of protest rose up from many sides. The widespread fear was-and is-that the Pope had revealed himself as the reactionary defender of tradition that many have accused him of being since he was the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the former Holy Office.

Defenders of Benedict XVI have responded to these objections by explaining that the use of the Tridentine Rite is not a "step backward" to pre-Vatican II times, but rather a step forward. Now the Church can see what the older rite offered in terms of beauty, reverence, and meaning and perhaps desire more of those elements in the ordinary form of the Mass.

A professor of theology and liturgy, the author of this book explains the motives behind the Pope's decision to allow two forms of the Mass. He does this by turning to the Pope's own theological and liturgical writings, but he also draws from his experiences on various Church commissions and in offices of the Roman Curia.

The author also brings to his subject an astute understanding of current social and spiritual trends both inside and outside the Church. Sensitive to modern man's hunger for the sacred, he desires with Pope Benedict XVI that the Mass be first and foremost a place of encounter with the living God.

Nicola Bux is a priest of the Archdiocese of Bari and a professor of eastern liturgy and sacramental theology. He has studied and taught in Jerusalem and in Rome. He is a consultor to the Congregations for the Doctrine of the Faith and for the Causes of Saints and consultant of the international Catholic theological journal Communio. He was recently named a consultor to the Office of Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff.


1 posted on 10/04/2012 4:23:26 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: All

Saturday, May 19, 2012


2 posted on 10/04/2012 4:24:39 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: All

Preface to Nicola Bux's "Benedict XVI's Reform", by Vittorio Messori

The Preface to Nicola Bux's Benedict XVI's Reform: The Liturgy Between Innovation and Tradition | Vittorio Messori

The “liturgical crisis” that followed the Second Vatican Council caused a schism, with many excommunications latae sententiae; it provoked unease, polemics, suspicions, and reciprocal accusations. And perhaps it was one of the factors—one, I say, not the only—that brought about the hemorrhaging of practicing faithful, even of those who attended Mass only on the major feasts. Well, it might seem strange, but such a tempest has not diminished but, rather, increased my confidence in the Church.

I will try to explain what I mean, speaking in the first person, returning thus to a personal experience. Some would regard this approach as immodest, but others would see it as the simplest way of being clear and to the point. It happens to be the case that despite my age I have only a very slight recollection of the “old” form of the Church’s worship. I grew up in an agnostic household and was educated in secular schools; I discovered the gospel—and began furtively to enter churches as a believer and no longer as a mere tourist—just before the liturgical reform went into force, which for me meant only “the Mass in Italian”.

In sum, I caught the tail-end of history. Only a few months later, I would find the altars reversed and some new kitschy piece of junk made of aluminum or plastic brought in to replace the “triumphalism” of the old altars, often signed by masters, adorned with gold and precious marble. But already for some time I had seen—with surprise, in my neophyte innocence—guitars in the place of organs, the jeans of the assistant pastor showing underneath robes that were intended to give the appearance of “poverty”, “social” preaching, perhaps with some discussion, the abolition of what they called “devotional accretions”, such as making the Sign of the Cross with holy water, kneelers, candles, incense. I even witnessed the occasional disappearance of statues of popular saints; the confessionals, too, were removed, and some, as became the fashion, were transformed into liquor cabinets in designer houses.

Everything was done by clerics, who were incessantly talking about “democracy in the Church”, affirming that this was reclaimed by a “People of God”, whom no one, however, had bothered to consult. The people, you know, are sovereign; they must be respected, indeed, venerated, but only if they accept the views that are dictated by the political, social, or even religious ruling class. If they do not agree with those who have the power to determine the line to be taken, they must be reeducated according to the vision of the triumphant ideology of the moment. For me, who had just knocked at the door of the Church, gladly welcoming stabilitas—which is so attractive and consoling to those who have known only the world’s precariousness— that destruction of a patrimony of millennia took me by surprise and seemed to me more anachronistic than modern.

It seemed to me that the priests were harming their own people, who, as far as I knew, had not asked for any of this, had not organized into committees for reform, had not signed petitions or blocked streets or railways to bring an end to Latin (a “classist language”, but only according to the intellectual demagogues) or to have the priest facing them the whole Mass or to have political chit-chat during the liturgy or to condemn pious practices as alienating, which instead were precious inasmuch as they were a bond with the older generation. There was a revolt on the part of certain groups of faithful—who were immediately silenced, however, and treated by the Catholic media as incorrigibly nostalgic, perhaps a little fascist—united under the motto that came from France: on nous change la réligion, “they are changing our religion.” In other words, although it was pushed by the champions of “democracy”, the liturgical reform (here I am abstracting from the content and am speaking only of the method) was not at all “democratic”. The faithful at that time were not consulted, and the faithful of the past were rejected. Is tradition not perhaps, as has been said, the “democracy of the dead”? Is tradition not letting our brothers who have preceded us speak?

Continue reading "Preface to Nicola Bux's "Benedict XVI's Reform", by Vittorio Messori" »


3 posted on 10/04/2012 4:25:57 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Liturgy Ping!

Should be a good Catholic discussion.


4 posted on 10/04/2012 4:33:25 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

OK

My suggestion:

Use the new cycle of readings, and calendar of saints.

Use the old liturgy.

Bishops shall enforce compliance, particularly with the psalm of the day (which too many “ministers of music” ignore).


5 posted on 10/04/2012 4:42:11 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Salvation

As a deaf person, now Nicola knows how *I* felt when I converted. Now I have to learn different responses thanks to Papa Benedict, and if this is to be understood a third remake altogether. :)

And people keep telling me that the Church is against change? It’s changed more in the 6 years I’ve been there probably more than in the last 40. :)

As a replacement of the Ordo, sure, but I believe the extraordinary form should be retained.


6 posted on 10/04/2012 4:49:59 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: ArrogantBustard

That would be a pretty good compromise.


7 posted on 10/04/2012 4:50:18 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Oddie exaggerates the difficulty, even for newbies, of understanding what’s going on in the Old Rite. It was designed to be understood without being heard, since they didn’t have sound systems in the Old Days. With a bit of preparation, one can readily learn.

But putting the new lectionary 3-year cycle into the Old Rite would be very, very, very foolish.

The 3-year cycle, 150 sets of 3 readings (really 4, since they turned the Gradual into an extended Responsorial Psalm), means 600 different readings that repeat only once every three years.

The genius of the Old Mass was the annually repeating cycle of 2 readings. That’s 100 readings (plus another 30 perhaps for major feast days). After 20 years of devoutly attending Mass, a Catholic could know them all by heart. 600 readings wash over everyone like water off a duck’s back.

I say, put the old cycle of readings into the Novus Ordo. And return to the gradual versicles that are there, in the Novus Ordo, instead of the responsorial psalm, which no one responds to.


8 posted on 10/04/2012 4:51:26 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: ArrogantBustard

I also want the old music — Gregorian chant.

With old hymns too.


9 posted on 10/04/2012 4:52:16 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: JCBreckenridge

As for the sanctoral cycle, again, foolish to put the Novus Ordo cycle into the Old Mass, but yes, update the Old Mass Sanctoral with some of the more recently canonized saints.


10 posted on 10/04/2012 4:54:16 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Salvation

I don’t think there’s much good about the Novus Ordo, but what I did like was the 1965 Missal, which was a translation into the vernacular of the 1962 Missal with a few changes (the Last Gospel had been removed, for example). It was used from 1965 until the Novus Ordo came into use in 1970.

Bring that back and I don’t think there’s a Catholic in the world who would object (except for extremists at either end of the spectrum). It would be a great compromise and, better yet, the translations into most major languages already exist.

Perhaps a few parts of the ordinary in Latin or Greek could be kept in those languages: the Kyrie, the Agnus Dei, the Sanctus, etc. Most people know these things or could learn them easily, and it would tie us to our liturgical and cultural past.

The Old Calendar, with the addition of the new saints, should also be brought back. We need the the different liturgical seasons clearly delimited by the traditional feasts, the Rogation Days, etc.

One of the big problems now in encouraging the 1962 Missal is simply that most current priests don’t have the time (and alas, some don’t have the ability) to learn Latin, so even those who would like to do it, unless they are so devoted they join an order dedicated to nothing but that, can’t realistically be expected to celebrate it.

And the old 12 minute dead-silent or mumbled low mass, which unfortunately was the standard in the US, was an abuse that we don’t want to go back to, and one of the things that made people willing to accept the Novus Ordo.


11 posted on 10/04/2012 4:55:36 PM PDT by livius
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To: ArrogantBustard

I like your plan.


12 posted on 10/04/2012 4:59:00 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Pray for our republic.)
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To: Houghton M.

**600 readings wash over everyone like water off a duck’s back.**

Disagree, because we Catholics are exposed to a greater part of the Bible. We can handle it.


13 posted on 10/04/2012 5:00:11 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

I also want the old music — Gregorian chant.

With old hymns too.

&&
That would be wonderful.


14 posted on 10/04/2012 5:00:42 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Pray for our republic.)
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To: livius

The new translations are basically all the 1965, 1962 missal. As our priest was discussing the changes, another lady and I were following along in her husband’s old missal. The wording was almost identical between the new translations and the older missal.


15 posted on 10/04/2012 5:02:37 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

For the parts that remained the same, they are. But a lot of things changed in 1970 - the new canons (most of which should go away, IMHO, and a couple of which are borderline heretical), the “Responsorial Psalm,” which didn’t exist except as a very brief couple of lines before the Gospel reading, the “Acclamation,” which didn’t exist, etc. A lot of these things were based on faux archaeology popular in Protestant circles in the 1950s and 1960s, where they claimed to have discovered things that the “early Christians” did, with absolutely no evidence. So perfectly legitimate, provable traditional liturgical practices and words that had existed for centuries were thrown out, and strange modern German Protestant fantasies about 2nd Century Christian practice were inserted in their place.

Oh, I forgot; I also don’t like the cycle of readings. We hear very little St Paul anymore, and I think we should bring back the old cycle, although expand it perhaps. Also,we should make sure that we don’t bring back the old abuse where every daily mass was a memorial mass and people heard the same funeral Gospel and Epistle every day, unless there was the feast of a really important saint.

However, you’re right, the few parts of the Mass that didn’t change are now once again translated pretty much the way they were in the 1965 missal.


16 posted on 10/04/2012 5:34:06 PM PDT by livius
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To: Salvation

I agree, but I still don’t get why it would be a big deal for every cathedral to have one old-style Latin Mass a week. I live in NYC and there are many Masses at St. Patrick Cathedral that count for Sunday Mass, beginning one or two on Saturday afternoon and continuing every hour and a half on Sunday. Why not just make one of those old-style Latin? Seems to me it would put an end to much of the fighting without depriving anybody of anything.


17 posted on 10/04/2012 5:57:44 PM PDT by utahagen
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To: Salvation

http://thepracticingcatholic.com/2012/09/26/whats-the-deal-with-the-sign-of-peace/


18 posted on 10/04/2012 6:07:48 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Salvation

A reasonable compromise would be to have mikes worn and perhaps a rolling display of the prayers both in Latin in English projected roughly where the hymn numbers are. Is it silly? I think the author has a valid point that unlike in better times, the congregation does not know the Latin.

A good step for the Novus Ordo would be to turn the priest toward God, for starters, and add Hail Mary and prayer to St. Michael, and St. John’s Prologue.

As to the calendar, can we have the traditional saints celebrated again? St. George, St. Christopher, St. Lazarus, St. Elijah? Please?


19 posted on 10/04/2012 6:48:56 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Salvation

I had heard a few years ago that he was a fan of kneeling and am glad to see it mentioned again.


20 posted on 10/04/2012 6:50:52 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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