Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Bene Israel hail DNA result {Indian Jewish history dating back 2000 years}
Times of India ^ | July 22, 2002 | Manjiri Damie

Posted on 10/04/2012 11:14:35 PM PDT by Cronos

They have adopted mehendi and haldi ceremonies from Indian weddings, they speak fluent Marathi and many of them have enrolled their children in Marathi medium schools.

As fond as they are of their adoptive home, the 250-odd members of the Bene Israel community in the city were pleasantly surprised to open the Sunday Times of India on July 21.

An STOI exclusive report highlighted the results of four-year-long DNA tests in London which confirms their genetical link to the "original children of Israel" (literal translation of Bene Israel), who are said to have migrated to this country 2,000 years ago.

N M Aston, department head of English at the Wadia college, however, told TNN that his community did not proclaim their 'purity' over the years. "But I am happy that the DNA tests have proved us as being 'children of Israel'. You see, Indian Jews were labelled as members having 'mixed' blood," he remarked.

Aston, whose relatives have now settled in Israel, said that there has been no discrimination in Israel after 1950, and that all his relatives were happy. For Aston, however, Pune and India have become home. "This is the only country where there is no discrimination," he says.

The Bene Israeli Jews in Pune are a close-knit community and there are quite a few prominent members like noted management expert George Judah who is also president of the synagogue committee, former commandant of College of Military Engineering Lt Gen R Mordecai and former department head of botany in University of Pune S B David.

Also among them is Samson Talkar, honorary secretary of the Succath Sholomon synagogue in Rasta Peth, which is the oldest Bene Israel synagogue in the city.

He maintains that members of the community never thought of themselves as impure. "Traditional Jews or those who have faith in the Bible always believed that we were the original Jews. We knew in our hearts that we were the original children of Israel," he remarked.

Ruben Daniel, a scientist at High Energy Materials Research Laboratory says he is happy that their origin has been scientifically proved.

"When Indian Jews go to Israel, they have to face extensive enquiry. They ask us about our ancestors, family members and we even have to furnish photographs of the graves of our ancestors. Then they cross check the information given by us," he said.

"I often wondered why only Indian Jews were treated in such a manner," he said hoping that the report about the DNA tests will remove all doubts once and for all.

Sholomon Jacob, care-taker at the Rasta Peth synagogue says that although his sons and sister have settled in Israel he does not feel like going there. "I have become old and Pune has been my home for many years. I don't even know when my family came here. And although I cannot read English, I felt happy about the DNA report," he said.

"We meet regularly for the Friday and Saturday prayers and important festivals like Rosh Hashana (new year), Yom Kipper (day of atonement) and the foundation day of the synagogue," says Ruben Daniel.

"Our priest conducts Hebrew classes for our children on Sundays. You see, people of our generation cannot write or speak Hebrew," he added.


TOPICS: History; Judaism
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble
"When Indian Jews go to Israel, they have to face extensive enquiry. They ask us about our ancestors, family members and we even have to furnish photographs of the graves of our ancestors. Then they cross check the information given by us," he said.

"I often wondered why only Indian Jews were treated in such a manner," he said hoping that the report about the DNA tests will remove all doubts once and for all.

The Bene Israelis are descendants of emigrants from Israel from the 2nd century BC. This would be sailors moving along a well-established sea route to the area south of Bombay

And they stayed there for 2000+ years.


1 posted on 10/04/2012 11:14:41 PM PDT by Cronos
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

*ping*; not necessarily for the list(s), but you’ll probably be interested.


2 posted on 10/04/2012 11:29:48 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cronos
Hmmm....the Rasta Peth synagogue....One Love...jammin...jammin...jammin in the name of the Lord...

On a more serious note...I find this fascinating.
3 posted on 10/05/2012 1:10:04 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tainan

Me too... bookmark.


4 posted on 10/05/2012 1:29:33 AM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Cronos

Certainly gives credence to the story of St. Thomas ending up in India.


5 posted on 10/05/2012 2:07:59 AM PDT by Claud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ApplegateRanch; Renfield; Squawk 8888; afraidfortherepublic; NYer; martin_fierro; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks AGR! Definitely pingworthy. And thanks right now to you and a bunch of other FReepers who did pretty much all the GGG work this week, you're all great!

At least some of India's Jews descend from arrivals from Baghdad during late antiquity and the Middle Ages. But here's a related sidebar: To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


6 posted on 10/05/2012 4:13:44 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith; agrace; AnalogReigns; Cacique; caryatid; Celtjew Libertarian; CobaltBlue; ...
Genetic
Genealogy
>> PING <<
Send FReepmail if you want on/off GGP list
Marty = Paternal Haplogroup O(2?)(M175)
Maternal Haplogroup H
GG LINKS:
African Ancestry
DNAPrint Genomics
FamilyTree DNA
GeneTree
Int'l Society of Genetic Genealogy
mitosearch
Nat'l Geographic Genographic Project
Oxford Ancestors
RelativeGenetics
Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation
Trace Genetics
ybase
ysearch
The List of Ping Lists

7 posted on 10/05/2012 5:46:09 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Claud
Certainly gives credence to the story of St. Thomas ending up in India.

Where he was murdered...

8 posted on 10/05/2012 6:05:33 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Joe Biden is reported to be seeking asylum in a foreign country so he does not have to debate Ryan.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Cronos

very cool !


9 posted on 10/05/2012 6:06:17 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cronos; SunkenCiv

The article is dated “July 22, 2002 “ .. is that a typo?


10 posted on 10/05/2012 6:47:44 AM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

No, it is not a typo.

The story is from 2002.

Identifiable Bene Israel number about 4000, and have paternal Y chromosome markers more characteristic of other Jewish populations, but maternal mitochondrial markers more similar to those found in the rest of India, according to some researchers.

There are also Bene Menashe and the ‘Lost Tribe of Ephraim’ in the Indian Subcontinent that claim Jewish descent.

Incidentally, the ‘Tribe of Ephraim’ in Pakistan/Afghanistan also claim to have the Ark of the Covenant.


11 posted on 10/05/2012 7:07:21 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Tainan

Rasta means road. Peth is village. So the village road :)


12 posted on 10/05/2012 7:21:53 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Claud
it's pretty definite that St. Thomas went to India. He and Bartholomew went east to Jewish communities in Persia, Yemen and India

And the trade route from the Red Sea to the west coast of India is ancient -- dating back 4000 to 5000 years

13 posted on 10/05/2012 7:23:08 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

14 posted on 10/05/2012 7:54:40 AM PDT by SJackson (none of this suggests there are hostile feelings for the US in Egypt, Victoria Nuland, State Dept)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: afraidfortherepublic

Well, at least there isn’t an discrimination in India now.


15 posted on 10/05/2012 8:25:10 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Claud

I seem to remember that there is a theory that during the ‘lost years’ of Jesus between boyhood and his ministry at 30+ years for which there is no record in the Gospels, he went to India.

Some have even found Bhuddist influences in his teaching.

The reason why Thomas went there could’ve been to re-kindle some contacts with the ancient Jewish community and take the word of Jesus to them.

Remember, the early Christian movement was still essentially a Jewish movement/sect until it got religio-jacked by Paul to make it palatable to the Gentile world.


16 posted on 10/05/2012 8:46:52 AM PDT by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk oMnly to me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Cronos

NOT looking forward to Gelfilte Fish Curry.


17 posted on 10/05/2012 9:32:29 AM PDT by Rebelbase (The most transparent administration ever is clear as mud.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wildbill

“Remember, the early Christian movement was still essentially a Jewish movement/sect until it got religio-jacked by Paul to make it palatable to the Gentile world.”

religio-jacked? Oy, vey! Ever hear of the Great Commission? Jesus commanded his followers to spread his Gospel to the whole world.


18 posted on 10/05/2012 10:21:47 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Cronos

Yeah, I investigated it once and was pretty impressed with the antiquity and extent of the evidence in favor.

And you’re right...those trade routes were very old, and this DNA study only proves it.


19 posted on 10/05/2012 11:23:44 AM PDT by Claud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: wildbill

I don’t buy the idea that Paul hijacked Christianity.

If Paul was so out there, there were 12 other Apostles, 72 disciples, and who knows how many Christian communities who would have taken him to task. The fact that his letters were copied, preserved, and read by all the churches with no apparent controversy means that his teaching was universally accepted as authentic.

The writings of the folks who really hijacked Christianity, eg the Gnostics, were categorically dismissed and were not read in the churches.


20 posted on 10/05/2012 11:32:00 AM PDT by Claud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: wildbill
I seem to remember that there is a theory that during the ‘lost years’ of Jesus between boyhood and his ministry at 30+ years for which there is no record in the Gospels, he went to India.

Japan begs to differ. ;^)

21 posted on 10/05/2012 12:47:42 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Cronos
Rasta means road. Peth is village. So the village road :)

Thank you, I did not know that.
As I mentioned, I think this is a very good article. I had no inkling about this migration path.

22 posted on 10/05/2012 5:35:45 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

Asoka's edicts are to be found scattered in more than thirty places throughout India, Nepal, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Most of them are written in Brahmi script from which all Indian scripts and many of those used in Southeast Asia later developed. The language used in the edicts found in the eastern part of the sub-continent is a type of Magadhi, probably the official language of Asoka's court. The language used in the edicts found in the western part of India is closer to Sanskrit although one bilingual edict in Afghanistan is written in Aramaic and Greek. Asoka's edicts, which comprise the earliest decipherable corpus of written documents from India, have survived throughout the centuries because they are written on rocks and stone pillars. These pillars in particular are testimony to the technological and artistic genius of ancient Indian civilization. Originally, there must have been many of them, although only ten with inscriptions still survive. Averaging between forty and fifty feet in height, and weighing up to fifty tons each, all the pillars were quarried at Chunar, just south of Varanasi and dragged, sometimes hundreds of miles, to where they were erected. -- The Edicts of King Ashoka Posted on 07/18/2004
At least two of the stones in Afghanistan are inscribed in Aramaic -- and there's only one historically plausible way for an Aramaic-speaking population to have been in Afghanistan at that time...


23 posted on 10/05/2012 6:33:55 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Rebelbase

...or nan matzoh.


24 posted on 10/05/2012 9:40:43 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: wildbill
well, the theory of Buddhist influence is a theory and has one possible gap -- if one assumes that Jews went to existing Jewish communities then there were Jewish communities in Syria, Mesopotamia, Persia, but not east of the Indus in northern india

however there were Jewish communities on the southern, sea route (Red Sea to Kerala/Bombay), but Buddhism was not there in Kerala (though it was there near Bombay -- as witnessed by the Kanheri caves dating to the same time.

Normally folks would go to Kerala, but its possible a Jewish traveller would go to Bombay or northern India

25 posted on 10/06/2012 8:22:16 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: martin_fierro

Please add me to your Genetic Genealogy ping list. Thank you!

Ragmop


26 posted on 10/06/2012 4:58:52 PM PDT by ragmop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson