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Joe Biden and the Abortion Question (Catholics calling for his EXCOMMUNICATION]
National Catholic Register ^ | X / XII / MMXII | pansgold

Posted on 10/12/2012 8:38:44 PM PDT by pansgold

Catholic Blogs are filled with demands for Joe Biden to be Excommunicated. Many saying Joe self-excommunicated himself with his stand on abortion. Joe Biden was once warned by the Archbishop of Denver not to take communion. After last night's debate new calls to excommunicate Joe Biden have again begun.

(Excerpt) Read more at ncregister.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: 2012vpdebate; abortion; nocommunionforjoe; prochoicecatholic; selfexcommunication; vpdebate
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" My religion defines who I am, and I've been a practicing Catholic my whole life. And has particularly informed my social doctrine. The Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who -- who can't take care of themselves, people who need help. With regard to -- with regard to abortion, I accept my church's position on abortion as a -- what we call a de fide doctrine. Life begins at conception in the church's judgment. I accept it in my personal life.

But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews, and I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the -- the congressman. I -- I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that -- women they can't control their body. It's a decision between them and their doctor. In my view and the Supreme Court, I'm not going to interfere with that." - Senator Joe Biden

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/pat-archbold/joe-biden-and-the-abortion-question#ixzz2999O8qQr

1 posted on 10/12/2012 8:38:55 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: pansgold; Michigander222; PJBankard; scottjewell; ebb tide; Sirius Lee; lilycicero; MaryLou1; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


2 posted on 10/12/2012 8:42:46 PM PDT by narses
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To: pansgold

When it comes to religion, Joe “The Home of the Whopper” Biden likes to have it his way.


3 posted on 10/12/2012 8:43:25 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Sorry Algore. It was attitude, NOT altitude.)
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To: pansgold

Lunatic needs an exorcism.


4 posted on 10/12/2012 8:43:57 PM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: pansgold

Throw in Nancy Pelosi, Durbin, and all the wretched Kennedys. I really wish the RCC would excommunicate them. Their position is intolerable. The ECUSA has imploded, maybe these fallen away Catholics could just move over there.


5 posted on 10/12/2012 8:46:31 PM PDT by EDINVA (I)
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To: pansgold
Life begins at conception in the church's judgment. I accept it in my personal life. But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews, and I just refuse to impose that on others....

Yeh and instead Bidens Dems impose their religion of abortion on the rest of society and force us taxpayers to subsidize it against our wishes.

6 posted on 10/12/2012 8:47:47 PM PDT by tflabo (Truth or Tyranny)
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To: pansgold

CINO’s -—Catholic in name only.


7 posted on 10/12/2012 8:50:30 PM PDT by tflabo (Truth or Tyranny)
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To: pansgold

Because old Joe obviously does not care if he is excommunicated or not - DO IT!

Catholics can make this a talking point, or think it’s something they can dangle in front of this evil man for their own purpose - or they can just DO IT.


8 posted on 10/12/2012 8:50:33 PM PDT by KittenClaws (You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: pansgold; Mrs. Don-o

I know he has been excommunicated by a couple of bishops, one of them in Denver.


9 posted on 10/12/2012 8:57:03 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: pansgold

It is false to say that Biden has excommunicated himself by being pro-abortion. Only those directly complicit in an actual abortion are excommunicated automatically. (Canon 1397)

He DOES, however, have the obligation NOT to present himself to receive Communion, because being pro-abortion is a mortal sin. (Canon 916) Cf. the guidelines on Communion printed in the front of every Missalette published in the U.S.

Ministers of Communion have the OBLIGATION to refuse Communion to people who are notorious for promoting abortion. (Canon 915) Follow these links to become an instant expert:

http://www.tinyurl.com/canon915
http://www.canonlaw.info/canonlaw915.htm
http://www.tinyurl.com/peters915
http://www.tinyurl.com/pont915


10 posted on 10/12/2012 8:57:52 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (In Edward Kennedy's America, federal funding of brothels is a right, not a privilege.)
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To: pansgold

Can’t find the article so titled at the link with a misused apostrophe in the first word.


11 posted on 10/12/2012 8:57:52 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: pansgold

***...I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that — women they can’t control their body...***

This ‘argument’ is such a crock, on a number of different levels.

Our side needs to be the one to define the terms of this, not the lying left.


12 posted on 10/12/2012 8:59:27 PM PDT by MichaelCorleone ('We the People' can and will take this country back...starting today.)
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To: MichaelCorleone

Good! Excommunicate his sorry behind.


13 posted on 10/12/2012 9:01:06 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Ahhh I think a bit of research on John Kerry’s self-excommunication also applies here.


14 posted on 10/12/2012 9:02:12 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: Arthur McGowan

The Pope, pro-abortion politicians, Holy Communion, and self-excommunication

“In other words, Senator Kerry believes that the Catholic Church’s pro-life position is a sectarian position, whose imposition on a pluralistic society would be constitutionally unwarranted — something like the Catholic Church trying to force all Americans to abstain from hot dogs on Fridays during Lent.

“This is simply not true. For the past thirty-one years, the Catholic bishops of the United States have made public arguments that can be engaged by any serious person on behalf of the right to life. You don’t have to believe in Petrine primacy, seven sacraments, or the two natures of Christ to engage the Catholic pro-life argument; you don’t even have to believe in God. You simply have to be willing to take elementary embryology and elementary logic seriously. For the senator to suggest that the Church’s position is sectarian is either woefully ignorant or deliberately mendacious.”

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/gaynor/070520


15 posted on 10/12/2012 9:07:30 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: pansgold

As a supposedly good Catholic, he should have said it’s a decision between the woman and God.


16 posted on 10/12/2012 9:08:35 PM PDT by Terry Mross
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To: Revolting cat!

The link rediredted just fine from here. A copy/past of the included URL also works.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/pat-archbold/joe-biden-and-the-abortion-question#ixzz2999O8qQr


17 posted on 10/12/2012 9:10:26 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: pansgold

Excommunication is a specific penalty in the Church’s law. Some actions do result in automatic excommunication.

Promoting abortion is a mortal sin. One who promotes abortion is not in union with the Catholic Church. But he does not incur an automatic excommunication.

Pro-abortion people must not approach for Communion. Publicly pro-abortion people must be DENIED Communion. But the Denial of Communion is not excommunication, and not a penalty at all. It is a demand of the moral law, and required by Canon law—Canon 915.


18 posted on 10/12/2012 9:14:04 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (In Edward Kennedy's America, federal funding of brothels is a right, not a privilege.)
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To: pansgold

When was the last time the US Catholic Church excommunicated a sitting US politician?

So many Democrats push agendas that hurts the church, then supposedly supports the church come re-election time.


19 posted on 10/12/2012 9:17:44 PM PDT by Tai_Chung
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To: Revolting cat!

I didn’t say the Article was so titled did I?

Try this.

Catholic’s begin calling for Ol’ Joe’s EXCOMMUNICATION (TRUE)
Catholic Blogs are filled with demands for Joe Biden to be Excommunicated. (TRUE)

Posted by Heather on Friday, Oct 12, 2012 12:26 PM (EST):I have a friend whose husband has personally watched Biden continually arrive at Mass 30 minutes late and then leave early so that he can stand outside the Church door to shake hands with people. PRACTICING CATHOLIC, MY A$$. This man is a liar, a heretic and an embarrassment to Catholics and the sooner he gets excommunicated, the better.

Posted by Margaret Edwards on Friday, Oct 12, 2012 2:26 PM (EST):Reading about excommunication & wondering WHY the Catholic Church has stopped kicking people out??? From Catholic Encyclopedia, “Hence arise various extenuating reasons (causæ excusantes), based on lack of guilt, which prevent the incurring of excommunication
(1) Lack of the full use of reason.
(2) Lack of liberty resulting from grave fear.
(3) Ignorance.
It looks to me like Biden and Pelosi are pretty solid on two of the three. Think we’re stuck with em :)

Posted by Guitar Man on Friday, Oct 12, 2012 2:55 PM (EST):People excommunicate themselves. I think what the Church sometimes does is make it “formal” so to speak. When someone does an action worthy of excommunication, they have already excommunicated themselves. Think of it like sin, when we commit a grave/mortal sin, we don’t need the Church to officially make a proclamation that we have in fact committed a grave sin. The very act of committing that sin has aleady severed our relation with God.

Kind of makes you wonder about that political party that has as it’s platform those action which the Church deems grave…..As Fr. Rocky says, you get who you vote for….

Posted by Cynthia Campbell on Friday, Oct 12, 2012 10:50 PM (EST):I became disillusioned and stop going to the LDS church because they REFUSED to excommunicate Harry Reid. He had joined the LDS (Mormon) congregation in order to win votes in Nevada (which has a large Mormon population). He was never a practicing Mormon, and in fact hold Mormonism in GREAT disdain. Everything he stands for and believes in runs contrary to the LDS beliefs and they STILL refuse to do anything about him. A bunch of wimps and pussies . . . if not Harry Reid, then WHO???? What does a person have to do to get kicked out of the church????? They excommunicated a woman who had an affair but NOT Harry Reid????? Does not make any sense. Lost all respect for the hierarchy.

This is just a few from one Catholic Blog website.

Hope that helps.


20 posted on 10/12/2012 9:18:28 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: pansgold

This will die down and the church won’t do anything - after all, he’s the Vice President so he’s “special”. /s


21 posted on 10/12/2012 9:18:55 PM PDT by Marcella (Republican Conservatism is dead. PREPARE.)
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To: Tai_Chung

Kerry said to be excommunicated
October 18, 2004

A consultant to the Vatican has said Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has incurred the penalty of excommunication from the Catholic Church.

The consultant made his statement in a highly unusual letter to Marc Balestrieri, a Los Angeles canon lawyer who formally sued John Kerry in ecclesiastical court for heresy.

Balestrieri, who launched his case earlier this year by filing a heresy complaint in Kerry’s home archdiocese of Boston, told EWTN’s “World Over” program on Friday that he had received an unusual, indirect communication from the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith regarding the pro-abortion stance.

That communication provides a basis, he said, to declare that any Catholic politician who says he is “personally opposed to abortion, but supports a woman’s right to choose,” incurs automatic excommunication. It also provided a basis for Balestrieri to broaden his canonical actions and file additional complaints against four more pro-abortion Catholic politicians: Democrat Senators Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts and Tom Harkin of Iowa; Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine; and former New York Governor Mario Cuomo, a Democrat.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=32830


22 posted on 10/12/2012 9:25:02 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: Arthur McGowan
It is false to say that Biden has excommunicated himself by being pro-abortion.

Incorrect.

Only those directly complicit in an actual abortion are excommunicated automatically. (Canon 1397)

Wrong Canon Arthur.

Can. 1397 One who commits murder, or who by force or by fraud abducts, imprisons, mutilates or gravely wounds a person, is to be punished, according to the gravity of the offence, with the deprivations and prohibitions mentioned in can. 1336. In the case of the murder of one of those persons mentioned in can. 1370, the offender is punished with the penalties there prescribed.

Can. 1398 A person who actually procures an abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"76 "by the very commission of the offense,"77 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.78 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

Can. 1314 A penalty is for the most part ferendae sententiae, that is, not binding upon the offender until it has been imposed. It is, however, latae sententiae, so that it is incurred automatically upon the commission of an offence, if a law or precept expressly lays this down.

Can. 1364 §1 An apostate from the faith, a heretic or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication, without prejudice to the provision of Can. 194 §1, n. 2; a cleric, moreover, may be punished with the penalties mentioned in Can. 1336 §1, nn. 1, 2 and 3.

23 posted on 10/12/2012 9:25:55 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: pansgold

I don’t make rules here and I don’t enforce rules. The Moderators do, and they forbid changes to original titles.

As for me, I don’t trust posters who think they are oh so creative changing article titles and that with their very own grammatical errors.


24 posted on 10/12/2012 9:36:46 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
Then defrock Nolan and Rossi. Some "coded" and solid laws/Cannon if the clergy go earthly political whoring about, lol.
http://www.catholicnews.com/photos/11hp0428.htm
25 posted on 10/12/2012 9:41:30 PM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: pansgold
Excommunication or Exorcism.
26 posted on 10/12/2012 9:46:41 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: pansgold

Howcum Nasty Puglosi gets a pass?!


27 posted on 10/12/2012 10:14:36 PM PDT by Tucker39
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To: rawcatslyentist

Being for sodomite “marriage” is just as bad, and after last night Biden is in need of an exorcism. I was waiting for his head to twist around on his smirking, laughing face as he was spitting split pea soup in Ryan’s face.


28 posted on 10/12/2012 10:17:37 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: Salvation

Biden has not received a ferendae sententiae excommunication from any Bishop. You know no such thing.


29 posted on 10/12/2012 10:18:21 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Dolan, sorry.


30 posted on 10/12/2012 10:19:28 PM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: Tucker39
While you were busy contemplating the lint in your navel:

Open Letter To Nancy Pelosi

31 posted on 10/12/2012 10:22:33 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Salvation

No, just said he should not be given the Eucharist. Nothing formal. Officially excommunicating a pol. Is very tricky considering the secular nature of our government/tax breaks involved. God sorts everything out in the end, we only go by what integrity we have.


32 posted on 10/12/2012 10:23:44 PM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: pansgold
I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that -- women they can't control their body. It's a decision between them and their doctor.

Sorry, not buying it, Joe. Obamacare obliterates the supposed right to privacy that undergirds Roe. Roe and Obamacare cannot both be constitutional. One gives women a right to make decisions without interference. The other puts government between her and her doc every step of the way, from the insurance products she is permitted to purchase to the treatment options her doc is permitted to offer her.

33 posted on 10/12/2012 10:47:13 PM PDT by PeevedPatriot ("A wise man's heart inclines him toward the right, but a fool's heart toward the left."--Eccl 10:2)
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To: rollo tomasi

Personally, and I could be wrong, but I think a lot of churches don’t excommunicate these politicians because they give a great amount of money to them. Just my opinion, of course.


34 posted on 10/13/2012 12:47:03 AM PDT by Catsrus
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To: Catsrus
That's not the case with a tightwad like Biden whose charitable contributions in 2011 amounted to 1.46% of his income.
35 posted on 10/13/2012 12:52:55 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: pansgold
“I'm a great Catholic and don't believe in murdering unborn babies. But it's ok for other people to murder unborn babies if they're cool with it.” (Biden translation)
36 posted on 10/13/2012 1:48:58 AM PDT by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

“..it’s ok for other people to murder unborn babies if they’re cool with it.’ (Biden translation)”

Exactly! What a ridiculous position for Biden and others like him (i.e., Pelosi, Kennedys, Cuomo, etc.) to take. Extend the (non)argument to other circumstances and it goes something like - “I’m a great Catholic and don’t believe in stealing/murder/or other heinous crime. But it’s ok for other people to steal/murder/commit heinous crimes if they’re cool with it.”

So why do we bother with laws at all if they are completely subjective? These people are so devoid of logic it is appalling. Kennedy started it.


37 posted on 10/13/2012 2:52:30 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: Arthur McGowan
"Only those directly complicit in an actual abortion are excommunicated automatically. (Canon 1397)"

This raises the question of what "directly" means. Is someone who passes laws enabling more abortions and who directly funds the perpetuation of thousands of abortions which wouldn't occur otherwise "directly complicit"? I sure wouldn't want to risk my eternal soul relying on semantic hair splitting in this regard. I don't think God gives a pass for doing indirectly what is prohibited to do "directly".

38 posted on 10/13/2012 2:53:49 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: pansgold
I accept my church's position on abortion as a -- what we call a de fide doctrine. Life begins at conception in the church's judgment. I accept it in my personal life.

WTF? Is he assuring us that if he gets pregnant, he definitely will not abort?

And what exactly does he think de fide means, if anything?

39 posted on 10/13/2012 3:38:00 AM PDT by maryz
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To: pansgold

What ticks me off is he goes to Communion every week.


40 posted on 10/13/2012 3:56:03 AM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: Revolting cat!

As for me, I don’t trust posters who think they are oh so creative changing article titles and that with their very own grammatical errors.

“Joe Biden and the Abortion Question (Catholics calling for his EXCOMMUNICATION]”

Like the Above?

( )
or
[ ]

not ( ]


41 posted on 10/13/2012 5:51:33 AM PDT by pansgold
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To: All

The Catholic Church will permit Pro-Choice Catholics when Shira Law permits Gay Muslims.


42 posted on 10/13/2012 6:02:58 AM PDT by pansgold
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To: pansgold

Biden’s sin is the sin of omission. Knowing abortion to be intrinsically evil and doing nothing to end it is a sin. A grave sin that many Catholics do not even realize they are committing with the “personally opposed” stance.


43 posted on 10/13/2012 8:35:22 AM PDT by Jvette
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To: pansgold

Don’t worry about me being happy, worry about respecting the community of readers who rely on honesty, accuracy and respect for agreed upon rules.


44 posted on 10/13/2012 9:25:49 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: circlecity

well said! i agree.
...someone who pays a hitman, to commit murder, is complicit.
someone who pays an abortionist, or even passes laws setting up such payments, certainly is complicit.


45 posted on 10/13/2012 10:03:28 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Terry Mross
A decision to sin is never a decision "between a woman and God" or "between you and God". Such a decision decisively closes out God from the equation. Instread of choosing the Author of Life, you have chosen the Author of Death.

I dedicate the tagline to Joe, who, claiming to be Christian, gives Christ a bad name.

46 posted on 10/13/2012 2:04:13 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("As it is written, the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." Romans 2:24)
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To: Revolting cat!

Better let them know ASAP!

(]


47 posted on 10/13/2012 3:48:29 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I was pointing out it isn’t between a woman and her doctor whether or not it’s okay to kill someone. and I’ll say that if a person chooses to sin it’ll be God that person will be dealing with and not the doctor.


48 posted on 10/13/2012 8:47:50 PM PDT by Terry Mross
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To: Terry Mross

Well said.


49 posted on 10/14/2012 8:23:02 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child that's got his own." Billie Holiday / Arthur Herzog Jr)
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To: MichaelCorleone
***...I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that — women they can’t control their body...***

Yeah joe... it's like telling people that woman's choice supercedes God's law of Thou Shalt not Kill.

Really Joe... really? You're an idiot.

50 posted on 10/14/2012 6:14:37 PM PDT by Northern Yankee (Where Liberty dwells, there is my Country. - Benjamin Franklin)
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