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Has V.P. Biden excommunicated himself by voting Pro Choice?
X / XIII / MMXII | pansgold

Posted on 10/13/2012 4:48:02 PM PDT by pansgold

Has V.P. Biden excommunicated himself by voting Pro Choice?

Canon 1398 Any politician that passes a law that promotes abortion, is automatically excommunicated. Their

excommunication does not have to be public. Their action is sufficient to incur the excommunication.

Under Vatican ruling, abortion triggers automatic excommunication

Today, Canon 1398 of the 1983 revision of the Code of Canon Law reads: “A person who actually procures an

abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.” The word “actually” indicates that the abortion must

have been successful for the penalty to occur; the mere intent to have an abortion is not sufficient.

That the penalty is latae sententiae means it is automatic, and hence there is no need for an official

decree. Most excommunications, by way of contrast, have to be proclaimed by church authorities in order to

take effect; these are called ferendae sententiae. There are seven acts in canon law that trigger latae

sententiae excommunication. Aside from abortion, they are: violence against the pope; sacrilege such as

throwing away a consecrated host; absolving a person with whom one has sinned against the sixth commandment;

consecrating a bishop without authorization; violating the seal of confession; and apostasy, heresy or

schism.

Canon 1329 specifies that accomplices to an act that triggers a latae sententiae excommunication are also

subject to the same penalty if “without their assistance, the crime would not have been committed.” Canonists

believe such accomplices include the doctor and nurses who perform the procedure, as well as friends or

family (such as the husband or boyfriend) who cooperate in a direct fashion, such as paying for the abortion

or driving to the clinic.

Canon 1323, however, stipulates that no one can be excommunicated who:

Has not turned 17; Was, without fault, ignorant of violating the law; Acted under physical force, or under a chance occurrence that could not be foreseen or avoided; Acted under compulsion of grave fear; Lacked the use of reason.

"A person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication." [Code

of Canon Law 1398]

This includes Presidents, Prime Ministers, politicians, all members of the government. In the case of

abortion, by their action only, these persons do not need to be publicly informed that they are

excommunicated. All those who suggest or pass a law that promotes abortion, are automatically excommunicated.

Their excommunication does not have to be public. Their action is sufficient to incur the excommunication.

Accordingly, it can be said that most ex-Catholic politicians today are among the excommunicated. They cannot

be called Catholics because they no longer belong to the Catholic Church.

A teacher, who suggest abortion for whatever reason, is automatically excommunicated.

A Doctor or nurse who assists in an abortion, is automatically excommunicated.

A person who is excommunicated in the Catholic Church, cannot receive any of the Sacraments of the Catholic

Church.

Sources: The National Catholic Reporter http://www.natcath.org/NCR_Online/archives/011703/011703d.htm

Catholic Doors Ministry http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu158.htm


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: abortion; canon1398; excommunicated; vanity; vpbiden

1 posted on 10/13/2012 4:48:11 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: pansgold

Only if the Catholic Church takes action.


2 posted on 10/13/2012 4:50:24 PM PDT by Reily (l)
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To: pansgold

When was the last time anyone was excommunicated for any reason?


3 posted on 10/13/2012 4:52:08 PM PDT by doc1019
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To: Reily

Canon law already has. He excommunicated himself by voting to fund abortions.


4 posted on 10/13/2012 4:52:09 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: doc1019

Canon Law 1398

All those who suggest or pass a law that promotes abortion, are automatically excommunicated.

Their excommunication does not have to be public. Their action is sufficient to incur the excommunication.

Accordingly, it can be said that most ex-Catholic politicians today are among the excommunicated. They cannot

be called Catholics because they no longer belong to the Catholic Church.


5 posted on 10/13/2012 4:53:45 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: doc1019

The Catholic church’s motto...All your sins are forgiven, just send cash.


6 posted on 10/13/2012 4:56:13 PM PDT by shelterguy
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To: shelterguy

That didn’t work out for John Kerry. He was excommunicated back in 2004


7 posted on 10/13/2012 4:58:21 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: pansgold

I’d be shocked if ANYONE from the Catholic Church broaches the subject. Maybe if Biden were a lower level official, but as VP, the church won’t want to get on the bad side of the regime, despite the fact that the 0bama regime is against Christians.


8 posted on 10/13/2012 4:58:47 PM PDT by The Sons of Liberty ("Get that evil, foreign, muslim, usurping, gay bastard out of MY White House!" FUBO!)
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To: pansgold

What prevents Biden from receiving the sacrements? Without official recognigion of his excommunication only his conscience would prevent him from receiving the sacrements.


9 posted on 10/13/2012 4:59:01 PM PDT by doc1019
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To: shelterguy

Yup


10 posted on 10/13/2012 5:00:18 PM PDT by demsux (Obama: THE job destroyer)
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To: pansgold

Biden has excommunicated himself from the over 50 IQ crowd!


11 posted on 10/13/2012 5:01:20 PM PDT by 2nd Amendment (Vote Obama for national suicide)
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To: doc1019

Bad Confessions
Bad Communions

Mean nothing.


12 posted on 10/13/2012 5:03:03 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: pansgold
I am not Catholic so maybe I shouldn't comment.
But has he ever been refused communion?
Of course I assume he has actually tried to go to mass and receive communion.

Has any Catholic Rat politician ever been refused Communion? If it happened it seems it would make the news.
Maybe it has and the Rat loving press spiked the story.

13 posted on 10/13/2012 5:03:39 PM PDT by Reily (l)
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To: doc1019

I know Vernon Meyer was publicly excommunicated in Phoenix a few years ago for going through the motions of ordaining Womyn Priests.

I’ve met Meyer personally; he’s an obnoxious prick, and the Church is better-off without him.


14 posted on 10/13/2012 5:04:09 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

This might be of interest.

Kerry said to be excommunicated
October 18, 2004

A consultant to the Vatican has said Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has incurred the penalty of excommunication from the Catholic Church.

The consultant made his statement in a highly unusual letter to Marc Balestrieri, a Los Angeles canon lawyer who formally sued John Kerry in ecclesiastical court for heresy.

Balestrieri, who launched his case earlier this year by filing a heresy complaint in Kerry’s home archdiocese of Boston, told EWTN’s “World Over” program on Friday that he had received an unusual, indirect communication from the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith regarding the pro-abortion stance.

That communication provides a basis, he said, to declare that any Catholic politician who says he is “personally opposed to abortion, but supports a woman’s right to choose,” incurs automatic excommunication. It also provided a basis for Balestrieri to broaden his canonical actions and file additional complaints against four more pro-abortion Catholic politicians: Democrat Senators Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts and Tom Harkin of Iowa; Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine; and former New York Governor Mario Cuomo, a Democrat.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=32830


15 posted on 10/13/2012 5:04:26 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: Reily

Lucy KilleaDuring a special election for the California Senate in 1989, pro-choice Catholic Lucy Killea was barred from communion by Leo Thomas Maher, the bishop of San Diego.[8] This was the first instance of a politician being censured in this way.[9] She received communion in Sacramento with the consent of Bishop Francis Quinn.[10] The incident brought publicity to Killea’s candidacy and gained her the voters’ sympathy, helping her to win the election.[11][12]

[edit] Mario CuomoIn 1984, Cardinal John Joseph O’Connor, then archbishop of New York, considered excommunicating New York Governor Mario Cuomo.[13][14] He also condemned Cuomo’s statements that support for abortion rights did not contradict Catholic teaching, but did not suggest that Cuomo should stop receiving communion.[15]

[edit] Gray DavisIn January 2003, Bishop William Weigand of Sacramento said Governor of California Gray Davis, a Catholic who supported abortion rights, should stop taking communion.[8]

[edit] John KerryIn 2004, Archbishop Burke said he would not give communion to 2004 presidential candidate and Senator John Kerry, in part because of his position on abortion. According to religion experts, such a denial of communion would have been unprecedented.[16][17] Kerry’s own Archbishop Sean O’Malley refused to specify the applicability of his earlier statement that such Catholics are in a state of grave sin and cannot properly receive communion.[16]

The issue led to comparisons between Kerry’s presidential campaign and that of John F. Kennedy in 1960. While Kennedy had to demonstrate his independence from the Roman Catholic Church due to public fear that a Catholic president would make decisions based on Vatican commands, it seemed that Kerry, in contrast, had to show obedience to Catholic authorities in order to win votes.[8][18][19][20][21]

According to Margaret Ross Sammons, Kerry’s campaign was sufficiently damaged by the threat to withhold communion that it may have cost him the election. Sammons argues that President George W. Bush was able to win 53% of the Catholic vote because he appealed to “traditional” Catholics.[22]

[edit] Rudy GiulianiIn 2007, Burke said that he would deny communion to 2008 Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani because of his views on abortion, and that Giuliani should not seek the sacrament.[17]

[edit] Kathleen SebeliusIn May 2008, Kansas City Archbishop Joseph Naumann said that Kathleen Sebelius should stop receiving communion because of her support for abortion rights, and that she should not again take it unless she publicly stated that she opposed abortion rights.[23][24][25]

[edit] Joe BidenAfter Joe Biden, a pro-choice Catholic, was nominated as a vice presidential candidate in the 2008 presidential election, Bishop Joseph Francis Martino of Biden’s hometown of Scranton, Pennsylvania, said Biden would be refused communion in that diocese because of his support for abortion rights.[7] Biden was not refused communion in his then-parish of Wilmington, Delaware.[26]

[edit] Patrick KennedyIn November 2009, it emerged that in February 2007, Bishop Thomas Tobin asked Representative Patrick Kennedy not to take communion because of his position on abortion.[27] Kennedy told the Providence Journal that Tobin also instructed priests in the diocese not to give him communion; Tobin denied this.[27]


16 posted on 10/13/2012 5:10:05 PM PDT by pansgold
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To: The Sons of Liberty

http://www.lifenews.com/2004/10/19/nat-885/

...As a result, the opinion that John Kerry has automatically excommunicated himself by virtue of his pro-abortion position is a private opinion of Father Cole and not an official opinion of the Catholic Church, DiNoia explained.

In an interview with CNS, Father Cole agreed with DiNoia’s assessment and said his letter represented his own views and not the Vatican’s.

CNS reports that an unnamed Vatican official it contacted confirmed that the Catholic Church has not officially excommunicated Kerry and had not seriously investigated doing so...


17 posted on 10/13/2012 5:12:18 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: pansgold
Ok then

it would be nice if there was some consistency on this!

18 posted on 10/13/2012 5:16:04 PM PDT by Reily (l)
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To: pansgold

Apparently his association with the Catholic church has meant nothing for many years.


19 posted on 10/13/2012 5:16:33 PM PDT by doc1019
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To: pansgold

Is the Pope German?


20 posted on 10/13/2012 5:18:12 PM PDT by rfp1234
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To: pansgold

Short answer: no.


21 posted on 10/13/2012 5:19:10 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: pansgold

LOL LOL LOL.....if the church had that much balls, Pelosi would be in hell now.


22 posted on 10/13/2012 5:21:11 PM PDT by fish hawk
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To: pansgold

My understanding is that you have to be fully aware of what you’re doing and fully aware that it’s wrong to be excommunicated for it, so that lets Joe off.


23 posted on 10/13/2012 5:29:28 PM PDT by RichInOC (Joe Biden walks into a bar...and wakes up in the hospital with a concussion.)
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To: shelterguy
Don't paint the Catholic Church with a broad brush.

Test of Fire: Election 2012

24 posted on 10/13/2012 5:32:55 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: Jean S

I can only go by what I have personally observed the last 50 years or so. If you commit a sin, bring cash. Done deal.


25 posted on 10/13/2012 5:39:59 PM PDT by shelterguy
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To: pansgold

It needs to be enforced to have any meaning.


26 posted on 10/13/2012 5:43:11 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

.....Or they many take a chance since the chances are very good that Romney WILL win.


27 posted on 10/13/2012 5:45:37 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: doc1019

DOES he receive the Sacraments? Does he go to Mass?


28 posted on 10/13/2012 5:47:12 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Good question. All this excitement about his excommunication might mean squat. Even though he says his life is determined by his religion ... depends on what his true religion is I guess.


29 posted on 10/13/2012 5:51:57 PM PDT by doc1019
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To: Reily

Yes, at least one has...a local jokel out in CA....she ended up winning election or re-election though....


30 posted on 10/13/2012 5:55:35 PM PDT by scrabblehack
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To: shelterguy
This is an unsupportable assertion. Sin is absolved through the Sacrament of Penance (Confession) and it is an excommunicable offense for the priest talks about it. It is also a canonical delict to make reception of any Sacrament contingent upon payment. So how would you know anything, ever, about any possible relationship between money and absolution for sin?

Or am I not understanding what you claimed to know? If this is a misunderstanding on my part, what IS it you claimed to know?

31 posted on 10/13/2012 5:57:57 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“””This is an unsupportable assertion. Sin is absolved through the Sacrament of Penance (Confession)”””

Confession booth, cashier, same thing.


32 posted on 10/13/2012 6:11:23 PM PDT by shelterguy
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To: shelterguy

I’m calling this out as lying slander. This doesn’t happen, and you are talking rubbish.


33 posted on 10/13/2012 6:13:46 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts.)
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To: shelterguy

Are you bribing your confessor in order to receive absolution?


34 posted on 10/13/2012 6:16:21 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: A.A. Cunningham

The sinner could bribe the confessor but then both would be guilty of mortal sin. One might be able to bribe an earthly judge but on the last day, he or she will definitely judged by The Higher Authority. I seriously doubt that there any priests who would risk his immortal soul for a few bucks.


36 posted on 10/13/2012 8:34:45 PM PDT by Ax ("Bring the Pipes together for the Risin' o' the Moon.")
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: pansgold

All bark, no bite.


38 posted on 10/13/2012 10:24:15 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: pansgold

Wow. As a real live canon lawyer, where do I start? As much as I agree that Biden is in deep spiritual trouble with his pro-abortion positions, your post is factually wrong in more ways than I can count!

If you’d like to know what Catholic teaching really says on this subject, try reading this:

http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2010/10/21/have-pro-abortion-politicians-excommunicated-themselves/

And please note that there is NO SUCH THING as “automatic excommunication,” nowhere, no how, never ever. It is canonically impossible because it is theologically impossible. The word “automatic” and the word “excommunication” should never be used together in the same sentence...


39 posted on 10/14/2012 7:24:59 AM PDT by Canon Lawyer
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To: pansgold

Which quisling gave him the Sacrament today?


40 posted on 10/14/2012 1:57:55 PM PDT by onedoug
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