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Does the Bible Tell Us Not to Judge Others?
The Christian Diarist ^ | October 21, 2012 | JP

Posted on 10/21/2012 10:41:14 AM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST

“Only God can judge me.” - Elizabeth Escalona, 23-year-old Texas mom who beat and glued her 2-year-old daughter’s hands to a wall.

“Holier than thou critics have nothing on Lance Armstrong.” - de Volkskrant, the Netherlands

“Be Cool. Be Kind. Don’t Judge.” - A tee shirt on sale at the Ellen Degeneres online store.

Ever notice how often those who lead Godless lives, who engage in immoral behavior, who commit unspeakable acts invoke the words of the Lord to defend their unrepentant sinfulness?

“Judge not lest ye be judged.”

Usually they direct the words at Christ followers, whom they disparage as “judgmental” or “sanctimonious” or “holier than thou.”

Of course, if the Godless, the immoral, the unrepentant actually read the Bible, rather than selected verses, they would understand the context in which the Lord said “Judge not.”

He was talking about hypocritical judgment.

“Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?” the Savior admonished.

“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

What the Lord was saying is that, before those of us who believe ourselves upright presume to judge those we perceive as ungodly, we should examine ourselves.

If I am an adulterer, if I consort with prostitutes, if I frequent strip clubs, if I download pornography on the Internet, who am I to condemn others for their sexual sins?

If I have a gambling problem or a drug habit or a violent temper, how can I chastise those who similarly struggle with demons?

If I forget the Sabbath day, choosing football over church, if I kill, by supporting institutions that support abortion, if I steal, by working for a business that cheats its customers, what standing do I have to criticize those who break other of God’s commandments?

But those who are committed Christ followers, who are not just hearers, but doers of the Word, not only have the moral authority to judge the ungodly, they have a God-ordained imperative to do so.

Indeed, the Psalmist declared, “The mouth of the righteous speaks wisdom, and his tongue talks of judgment.” The Apostle Paul echoed that “he who is spiritual judges all things.”

It’s not about condemning sinners to hell. It’s about calling them to repentance, so that their eternal souls are not cast into the lake of fire of which the Bible warns.

It’s not about hating on transgressors, for we are, every one of us, sinners, who fall short of the glory of the Lord.

It’s about hating the sin.

So Christ followers do the will of God when they call out those who brazenly flout His law; who unabashedly and unrepentantly persist in their sins.

The unsaved may acknowledge God. They may even quote the Lord. But that matters not.

So they believe in the Father and the Son. That’s well and good. “Even the demons believe,” the Bible notes, “and tremble!”


TOPICS: Apologetics; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: bloggersandpersonal; christian; judgenot; repentance; sin; vanity
Here's the good news for the repentant: The Lord promises, “Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow.”
1 posted on 10/21/2012 10:41:18 AM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Actually NO the Bible does NOT tell you not to judge others. But if ye judge, do so as how you yourself want to be judged. By their fruits shall ye know them. So we are to judge them by their fruits. If they lie, that’s one strike against them already.


2 posted on 10/21/2012 10:44:36 AM PDT by BipolarBob (G Orwell was an optimist it seems.)
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To: BipolarBob

Personally, I think God is writing a new chapter in scripture. One that will not only admonish the heretofore “no-judgement’ credo in favor of his action, but to command it. Command righteous action against evil wherever seen.


3 posted on 10/21/2012 10:48:10 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Judge not lest you be judged.

Make sure you sins find you out.


4 posted on 10/21/2012 10:54:48 AM PDT by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

If you go back to the book of Leviticus God does command to judge, but to judge while giving benefit of the doubt.

Lev. 19:15
“Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.”

And in the Christian’s New Testament it has this to say.

John 7:24
“Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment.”


5 posted on 10/21/2012 10:58:50 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Judgement has two meanings in the Bible. The first is to condemn a person or group of persons, treating them as objects beneath us, thus justifying slaughter or other forms of persecution. Vengence is the Lord’s, so we need to quit trying to using it our selves. The other is a case of discernment, explaining to someone that a particular attitude or action is harmful to one’s self or others. Discernment is best used for other followers. For unbelievers? God loves them so much He gave his only son, Jesus Christ ... (that’s what we tell them)


6 posted on 10/21/2012 11:00:11 AM PDT by InvisibleChurch (the mature Christian is almost impossible to offend)
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To: BipolarBob

“Actually NO the Bible does NOT tell you NOT to judge others.”

Triple Negative = Awesome!!!!


7 posted on 10/21/2012 11:00:35 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Let’s ask Denish D’sousa.


8 posted on 10/21/2012 11:04:32 AM PDT by stormer
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Well, we are not supposed to judge non-Christians because (a) we are as much sinners as they are and (b) it is God’s love and message of forgiveness through Christ that draws the sinner to forgiveness.

Those that are Christians definitely can be judged by other Christians; in the case of the step-son sleeping with his mother (Galatians?) Paul recommends his expulsion from the church. Again this is the tough love required to push a back-sliding Christian back to God.


9 posted on 10/21/2012 11:05:02 AM PDT by struggle (http://killthegovernment.wordpress.com/)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

One way to take Christ’s words is that no one knows what is actually going on inside someone else’s heart and head. Also, no one knows what the final destiny of an evil doer may be after death. Only God knows that.

What we CAN judge is outward, obvious, factual evil. If someone murders somebody, we cannot completely know how deliberate it may have been, how intentional, how provoked or insane, and so forth. But we do know that murder is an evil act, and that it must be stopped and/or punished.

So, yes. For instance, abortion is ALWAYS evil, although some are more guilty than others; some act out of ignorance, some violate their consciences, and so forth. And as the discussion goes public, it has gotten harder for most people to pretend that they don’t know what abortion really is.


10 posted on 10/21/2012 11:06:06 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: BipolarBob

Just heard a sermon by good ole McGee. Self judgeing is a good thing, keeps us humble.

Maybe a better way of saying it is:

Judge your self and also others likewise.

Too many people only hear the Judge not.


11 posted on 10/21/2012 11:08:09 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( (Lord, save me from some conservatives, they don't understand history any better than liberals.))
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

In all fairness, judgement should be left up to judges, who are competent to judge, as having the evidence before them.

For others to judge without evidence is unfair.

However, that being said, once judgement has been rendered by a competent judge, everyone may feel free to condemn, as that is *not* judgment, but acceptance of judgment.

The guilty often seek to evade justice, so they accuse those who condemn them as unfair judges. Before judgment has been rendered, this is true; afterwards it is not.

“I am not judging you. I am damning you, based on the judgment that you are guilty.”


12 posted on 10/21/2012 11:11:38 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
“Be Cool. Be Kind. Don’t Judge.” - A tee shirt on sale at the Ellen Degeneres online store.

OK. I won't buy the shirt or watch Ellen. Because by doing so I would judge her lifestyle as being acceptable.

If I am not supposed to judge something by condemning it, I also cannot judge it by condoning it.

13 posted on 10/21/2012 11:15:50 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys=Can't drive, can't ski, can't fly, can't skipper a boat, but they know what's best for you.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Our judgment is supposed to be according to God’s Word.
Christians are to have discernment. We are told that we shall know a tree by its fruit.

Ultimately the Word of God judges.

And God does not expand or change His Word.


14 posted on 10/21/2012 11:17:35 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: struggle

We Christians are NOT as much sinners as “they”—unbelievers—are. We are saints, washed by the blood of Christ, sins forgiven forever, Hebrews 10: 10-23, and do not walk in the manner they formerly walked when we were dead (spiritually) in our trespasses and sins.
[Ephesians 2:1-10].

We have been raised up to walk in newness of life, and therefore, God does not call us sinners anymore, but saints.
We are clothed with Christ’s righteousness.


15 posted on 10/21/2012 11:25:15 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: mountainlion
Remember Does Satan know EVERY WORD of the Bible ?
Don't let Satan come and take away these words from your memory.

Ponder this:
16 posted on 10/21/2012 11:52:02 AM PDT by Yosemitest (It's simple. Fight ... or Die !)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Just as God is not on our “side” (we are either on His side, or not), we should not judge others (Judgement is God’s role, or the role of a authority he allows here on earth).

But on the other hand, we are to be salt and light (i.e. be his witnesses here for his message).


17 posted on 10/21/2012 11:53:55 AM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

This is an argument as old as Sodom when they asked why Lot should “judge” their behavior. Christians are commanded to judge others but to do so righteously. God places a very high store on integrity. One of the three things that God requires of us is to “do justice”.


18 posted on 10/21/2012 12:13:33 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Where did I read:
19 posted on 10/21/2012 12:19:19 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's simple. Fight ... or Die !)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Judgement is not forbidden, but there is a proper way to do it. There are certain judgments that a Christian should make about things they see in life. For example, I have to judge whether a certain movie or TV program is to be deemed as acceptable in my home.

Consider these passages that tell us about judging what we are being taught:

1 John 4:1

4 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


People also have to be told the truth about their sins. Recognition of our sins and repentance is what saves us:

Acts 2

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”


In many ways the church does not even operate as it once did. Some can look at things like miracles and great acts of faith, but we easily overlook the way that we should condut ourselves and keep certain matters within the church.

Look at these verses:

6 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!

7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


Here is something else that the church does not do for the most part:

Luke 18

15 “If your brother or sister[b] sins,go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”


20 posted on 10/21/2012 1:36:27 PM PDT by Preachin' (I stand with many voters who will never vote for a pro abortion candidate.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I don’t have to judge whether homosexuality is wrong any more than I have to judge whether murder is wrong. God said it is, that is all I need to know.


21 posted on 10/21/2012 1:46:52 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Judge fairly, judge wisely, judge compassionately,judge reasonably. Don’t be a fool, a martyr or a tyrant. Judge appropriately, judge realistically. Don’t lie down, walk forth, when appropriate tiptoe as not to intimidate and when necessary stomp violently upon that which threatens you. Judge all you do and judge others as you would judge yourself.

http://www.capalert.com/judgenot.htm


22 posted on 10/21/2012 2:00:06 PM PDT by This I Wonder32460
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To: TurkeyLurkey
“We have been raised up to walk in newness of life, and therefore, God does not call us sinners anymore, but saints.”

No matter how that is placed before us, we still have a sin nature. We are simply not yet in our perfected bodies. As long as we live in the earth suit, we still have a struggle with sin.

No doubt, you will consider the apostle Paul to be one of the greatest men that ever lived, but he said this:

1 Timothy 1

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

He places this in present tense with the use of the word “am”.

Also, he goes into great depth of his own sin problem in Romans 7 & 8.

Romans 7

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.


Yes, I know that Romans 8:1 tells us that there is condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. However, we have to get away from the notion that we are perfected. There will be a battle inside of Christians with sin until the Lord gives us the perfected body.

Not a one of us lives perfectly, and we need to manage ourselves properly. One problem in the church is that we take this idea of “grace” and use it as an excuse to live how we want to live, and merely lay it out to God as a weakness of the flesh. I am willing to make that statement for myself, even no one else will.

We wander around thinking of ourselves as “good”, but that is simply not true. Yes, according to Galatians 5:22 (I think) we can walk in goodness, which is one of the fruit of the Spirit. We must not see it as our goodness, but actually the goodness of God, thorugh His Spririt, as he works within us.

Consider the words of Jesus here:

Mark 10

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Those words came from the mouth of Jesus, who died for our sins. By His own words, He was not good. That says a lot about the attitude we as Christians should hold. With that, I have no good in me, aside from the goodness given to me by the Spirit of God. I also struggle with sin, and need to be in continual prayer and repentance. Otherwise, I am sure that my ego will get the best of me.

There is a such thing as judgment, but it must start inside my own skin. I know I am forgiven, but the attitude i show towards the unsaved can show a sense of “self-righteousness”, even though I do not intend it.

23 posted on 10/21/2012 2:10:04 PM PDT by Preachin' (I stand with many voters who will never vote for a pro abortion candidate.)
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To: Yosemitest

Your argument would have been much more engaging had it been in a normal font size, without the bold and multiple exclamation points. As it is, I have to assume that it is not worth reading, as it screams, rather than speaks.

Just a little fyi about netiquette.


24 posted on 10/21/2012 2:32:01 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
I'm lazy. I copy and paste from original source.
Do what you want. You've been shown the light.
You can answer later for how you use the information.
25 posted on 10/21/2012 2:48:32 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's simple. Fight ... or Die !)
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To: Preachin'

We do not have a sin nature, we have sin residing in the flesh. The word “sin nature” is not even in the Bible. If you’re going to use it, use the term the Bible uses.

Everything that we were in Adam, the “old man,” or “old self” as the Bible calls it, is dead. We died to sin when our old man died, the day we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. Now we are in Christ. We were given a new heart and a new spirit under the New Covenant. Israel as a nation will be given the same as Jeremiah and Ezekiel prophesy, when Jesus comes back to rule on this earth.

We are to walk—that is live our lives—in the power of the Holy Spirit in us. We have a new walk, a new lifestyle. If there’s no change, there’s no salvation. Do we still sin? Yes, unfortunately we fail to control the lusts of the flesh. Sometimes it is a struggle. But there is power in the Word of God, if we will study it and believe it, and there is power in the Holy Spirit who indwells us, and there is the victory that was won over sin on the cross.
BUT—we do NOT continue the way we were, as the Scriptures I gave plainly say in Ephesians 2—we have everything we need for life and Godliness.

We aren’t called saints for nothing.

All true believers are on the road to maturity, or being perfected in Christ. He promises to finish what He has begun in us. We are being conformed into the image of Christ and will be in our glorified bodies, perfect or complete, when we see Him either in the air or when we are raised.


26 posted on 10/21/2012 2:49:11 PM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Judge not. aka “Don’t judge me because it will hurt my feelings. What I think is your judgment will make me feel bad and cause me to feel shame. And feeling shame will hurt my self esteem. yada yada yada.”

Yet obviously, it is not the judgment of another that makes one feel bad, it is one’s own self judgment over what another says that makes one feel bad. If one really has nothing to rue, one would not fret over the judgment of another.


27 posted on 10/21/2012 2:50:24 PM PDT by This I Wonder32460
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To: Preachin'

Excuse me, I mean if you’re going to use the term “sin nature,” you should define what you mean. The Bible uses the word “old self” or “old man” for what a person is born in and the term “flesh” and “sin in the flesh” for what we war against, since we are a new man in Christ with His Holy Spirit in us.


28 posted on 10/21/2012 2:57:18 PM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

“In all fairness, judgement should be left up to judges, who are competent to judge, as having the evidence before them.”

I never tell people I am a judge...I’m a fruit inspector.


29 posted on 10/21/2012 3:03:59 PM PDT by bjorn14 (Woe to those who call good evil and evil good. Isaiah 5:20)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

If we are not to discern between good and evil whats the point of the Gospel’s teachings?

We had better be able to judge what’s good and what’s evil.

That one verse is used out of context, in an attempt to thwart any attempt at spiritual discernment. And thus condone anything and everything.


30 posted on 10/21/2012 3:13:01 PM PDT by NoLibZone (I know what it is to be Black,to be hated for who I am, more so than Whoppi does. I'm a Republican.)
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To: whomever

OK. I wasn’t going to touch this thread, but since I have recently addressed this in my adult Sunday School class here in rural Virginia...let’s shuck it down to the cob.

The word “judge” carries the meaning of assigning punishment. Unless we are, by the will of God, in a civil judicial role, we should honor the notion of allowing God to repay, i.e. set the punishment. The better term is “discern.” We must be discerning and unafraid in speaking truth to power. This wacko PC age views any discerning dissent as “judgmental.” The idea of the leftists is to simply make us shut up and tolerate the intolerable.

Not gonna happen with this old guy. I would relish the opportunity to call Obama a Marxist liar to his face.

Shabbat Shalom


31 posted on 10/21/2012 3:15:49 PM PDT by esopman (Blessings on Freepers Everywhere and Their Most Intelligent Designer)
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To: Preachin'

It seems that pagans are always telling us not to judge based on one fragment of Scripture.

We are instructed to judge other Christians and how to do so.
We are given courts as an instrument of common grace so that all may receive judgment.


32 posted on 10/21/2012 3:21:17 PM PDT by Gamecock
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To: Gamecock
Of COURSE we have to make "judgements". If the guy down the street is burying corpses in his crawlspace, it would be insane to NOT "judge" him as a bad person.

Liberals who throw this out ALWAYS forget the "go and sin no more" part.

Jesus did not pat the adulteress on the head and say: "poor dear, those meanies are sinners, too. Keep on committing adultery."

33 posted on 10/21/2012 3:59:08 PM PDT by boop (Sorry, folks. Park's closed. The moose out front shoulda told ya.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

We are not to judge souls, just actions, which is why we will be surprised by some we see and some we won’t see in Heaven.


34 posted on 10/21/2012 5:22:59 PM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: TurkeyLurkey

>>We Christians are NOT as much sinners as “they”—unbelievers—are.

I think we both understood what I meant. I know that I am forgiven by the grace of God and the blood of Jesus Christ, but as the Bible states “All have sinned.”


35 posted on 10/22/2012 9:38:20 AM PDT by struggle (http://killthegovernment.wordpress.com/)
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To: struggle

“All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” Romans 3:23, is in the context of Paul’s saying that there is no distinction of people, for we’ve all sinned...and all those who believe in Jesus Christ are justified (declared righteous) as a gift by His grace through Christ’s redemption.

So, though we’ve all sinned and fall short of the glory of God, those who believe are by His grace, through Christ’s redemption, declared righteous, and now begin a new life in Christ that puts sin out of one’s life. Saints are able to say “no” to temptation.

This is the walk, or lifestyle, or fruit-bearing season of life when the believer lives by faith, progressively being delivered from the power of sin in his life, as he makes different choices in the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Word of God to directing his paths.

The lifestyle (walk) of a believer is totally different than the lifestyle of an unbeliever, as the Bible teaches.

2 Peter 1:1-11 describes the qualities of a person who knows God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is a warning in v. 10 about being diligent to make certain about His calling & choosing of us—as these qualities are ours and increasing if we are truly know the Lord Jesus Christ.


36 posted on 10/22/2012 12:25:21 PM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: TurkeyLurkey

>The lifestyle (walk) of a believer is totally different than the lifestyle of an unbeliever, as the Bible teaches.

I agree completely.


37 posted on 10/22/2012 12:31:39 PM PDT by struggle (http://killthegovernment.wordpress.com/)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

This article below is illuminating. Yes, we should judge just about everything. I have this book and it is full of simple (profound) insights. If we don’t judge and indeed prejudge, then we define deviancy down. Witness the fact that Obama has had an outright scumbag and misogynist in the White House. Yeah, his bro Jay-Z, he of the bitch and hoe genre. Hell yes, judge and discern to the max and never tolerate that which is evil.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/Rebecca_Bynum/The_Cult_of_Non-Judgmentalism/


38 posted on 10/22/2012 12:34:44 PM PDT by donaldo
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To: N. Theknow

And Degeneres has made the judgment that to judge is not cool, therefore she judges those who are judging as not cool. The conclusion is that by her own standard she is not cool.


39 posted on 10/30/2012 6:32:12 PM PDT by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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To: TurkeyLurkey
"We do not have a sin nature, we have sin residing in the flesh. The word “sin nature” is not even in the Bible. If you’re going to use it, use the term the Bible uses."

I have two passages for you that deal with this. I think these speak for themselves. Please forgive my formatting.

James 4 tells us this:

17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.

1 Corinthians 8

9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall.

40 posted on 11/05/2012 6:04:13 PM PST by Preachin' (I stand with many voters who will never vote for a pro abortion candidate.)
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To: Preachin'

James 4:17 is one definition of sin, not a sin nature. Other definitions of sin: Gen. 3:1-7; Is. 53:6, 1 John 3:4, 5:17; Romans 14:23, 1 Cor. 6:9-10.

Jesus came to deliver us from sin. The power of sin was broken at the cross and became true in our lives the moment we trusted in Christ. We are no longer slaves to sin.

I didn’t say believers never sinned. I said believers do not have a sin nature. If you mean by “sin nature” that which came in Adam when Adam sinned—a believer is no longer in Adam, he is in Christ, he is a new man, a new self, a new creation—those are the terms the Bible uses.

All that a believer was in Adam has been crucified with Christ, has been buried, and a new man has been raised to walk in newness of life—that’s the true believer. The believer is a new man in Christ and begins to walk, or live, in accordance to the Holy Spirit’s leading and power and the power of the Word of God in the believer’s life.He now lives by faith, not as he did formerly, in the lusts of the flesh.

In Ephesians 2:1-3 Paul is addressing believers who WERE dead in their trespasses and sins and FORMERLY WALKED according the the course of this world & according to the prince of the power of the air and of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

And Paul tells these believers, v. 3: Among them we too all FORMERLY LIVED in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and WERE BY NATURE children of wrath, even as the rest.

v. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we WERE dead in our transgressions, MADE US ALIVE with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 4:20-32 tells those who profess to be believers to lay aside the old self—this is in the context of behavior—and put on the new self [aorist imperfect tense: do it now, daily & moment by moment].

True believers have a new walk, a new spirit, a new heart, the presence of the triune God within through His Holy Spirit permanently, and the Word of God. His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.

So, though believers sin, they are not called sinners, but saints in the Bible. When Paul talked about his salvation in 1 Timothy 1:15, he said, “Christ came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.” He was expressing contemporaneous action—foremost of sinners—when he was first saved. He had just said in the few verses previous that he was FORMERLY a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent agressor and yet was shown mercy, because he acted ignorantly in unbelief; and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus (v. 13-14).

In Ephesians 3:8 Paul describes himself as the very least of all saints; in 1 Corinthians 15:9 he calls himself the least of the apostles...not fit to be called an apostle, because he persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am,...

Though believers sin, they are not slaves to sin, they do not walk, or live in sin, but they are increasingly being saved from the power of sin in their lives, as they put away the deeds of the flesh in faith. Their spirits wage war with the lusts of their flesh, but they can have the victory over sin experentially by believing Christ, by confessing their sins, (1 John 1:9) and turning from them. Believers have an Advocate with the Father who sits at the right hand in the heavenlies, as well as lives within us.

God will finish what He began in every believer. If there is no evidence of faith, no change of mind and action, no fruit, there is no salvation.

As far as 1 Corinthians 8 goes, our consciences have been cleansed by the blood of Christ as well. The passage concerns things sacrificed to idols and warns the strong brother not to participate in eating that which has been sacrificed to idols (even though he doesn’t believe in idols), so that the weak brother doesn’t stumble. Maybe you could explain how this passage fits in with having, or not having a sin nature?


41 posted on 11/06/2012 12:16:58 PM PST by TurkeyLurkey
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