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Francis J. Beckwith is Professor of Philosophy and Church-State Studies at Baylor University, where he is also a Resident Fellow in the Institute for Studies of Religion. He is the author of Return to Rome: Confessions of an Evangelical Catholic and one of four primary contributors to Journeys of Faith: Evangelicalism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and Anglicanism.
1 posted on 10/26/2012 2:28:44 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
The Conversion of Dr. Francis Beckwith - Q&A The Early Church Fathers were Catholic - YouTube Video
2 posted on 10/26/2012 2:30:10 PM PDT by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: NYer

Your kidding.....right?
Dear Lord Jesus


3 posted on 10/26/2012 2:38:39 PM PDT by astratt7 (obama,muslim,politics)
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To: NYer

Amen. Thank you for posting this wonderful article.


4 posted on 10/26/2012 2:38:45 PM PDT by frogjerk (OBAMA NOV 2012 = HORSEMEAT)
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To: NYer

I think we all have died, and are in purgatory right now.

It explains the ‘world’ around us much better.


5 posted on 10/26/2012 2:38:49 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: NYer

Where in the Holy Scriptures is Purgatory described, or mentioned?


6 posted on 10/26/2012 2:42:45 PM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: NYer

Thank you very much for posting this article.

I do understand the story and will work to understand it even better.


10 posted on 10/26/2012 2:57:44 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: NYer
“....self-flagellation.”? Sounds like the old Baal priests.

Unchristian and according to Scripture of no benefit. One of those forms of a mock humility. (Col. 2:23)

But then so is the idea of purgatory, monasteries, priests, the lot.

12 posted on 10/26/2012 3:11:51 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: NYer

And some think Mormonism is a humorous religion..
The RCC has some very strange memes of it’s own..

Not any less humorus than the Mormon Angel “Moron-i”..
However the death cult of Islam takes the cake..

A brief visit to latin america will raise your eyebrows..
Extremely stange rites and practises of the RCC down there..

The Copts and Maronites have their surprises as well..


13 posted on 10/26/2012 3:16:54 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: NYer

Then a rich man can buy his express ticket through Purgatory by paying people left behind to perform penance, fasting, prayer, rosary, novenas and masses? Isn’t that like buying indulgences?


15 posted on 10/26/2012 3:38:59 PM PDT by Procyon (Decentralize, degovernmentalize, deregulate, demonopolize, decredentialize, disentitle.)
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To: All
In Catholic theology, Purgatory is a state (or a process, not necessarily a place) to which one’s soul travels if one has died in a state of grace, but nevertheless retains unremitted venial sins and certain ingrained bad habits and dispositions. That is, Purgatory is a state for the redeemed who are not yet perfected. It is not a halfway house between Heaven and Hell. In Purgatory, you willingly undergo the quality and quantity of pain and suffering that is uniquely prepared for you so that you may enter Heaven unblemished....

....Some Protestants, even those who are Purgatory-friendly, have raised an objection to this account. They argue that, if undergoing the pains of Purgatory is necessary for a soul’s purification, then wouldn’t the assistance of the living impair that purification?

"Some Protestants" have raised this as an objection? Really? This third-rate argument? The biggest objection that I've ever heard raised (bigger even than "where's that in the Bible") and would like to see addressed is this one:

Which sins or offenses are not covered under Christ's shed blood, that cause post-death "pain and suffering" to be created for and endured by the presumptive purgatory denizen?

"Having read [Francis Beckwith]’s book, I am appalled at the blatant misrepresentation of both the Reformed teaching as well the teaching of Roman Catholicism. His lack of knowledge on historical issues is forgivable, given his ignorance, but to misrepresent and caricature the Reformed faith and to misrepresent the salvation teachings of Rome is simply irresponsible and dishonest..."
-- from the internet article Why Scripture and the Facts of History Compel Me, a Former Roman Catholic, to Remain a Committed Evangelical Protestant

20 posted on 10/26/2012 4:09:24 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: NYer

I would NOT want to be the priest, bishop, cardinal or pope who stands before THE LORD JESUS CHRIST to be judged after they spent their life and ministry telling people that the BLOOD OF CHRIST was not sufficient to provide full and complete Salvation!

Of course, the planet has long been hip to the fact that the whole “purgatory” schtick was a scam to fleece the suckers, who would pony up ca$h to “buy” their loved ones out of there.

God is NOT at all amused by this fraud!


21 posted on 10/26/2012 4:12:51 PM PDT by Tucker39
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To: NYer

There are many objections to the construct of purgatory, this one (that assistance would impair the purification process) is down the list, but Beckwith’s answer that “grace” thereby abounds seems a sick twist on the antinomianism that Paul forsees in Rom. 6:1.

The good works set forth by Beckwith seem to be for the glory of the RCC rather than the glory of God.


29 posted on 10/26/2012 5:32:23 PM PDT by anathemized (cursed by some, blessed in Jesus)
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To: All
More information on these FR threads:

Purgatory: An Objection Answered
Essays for Lent: Purgatory
Of saints, sinners, and purgatorial souls [Catholic Caucus]

First Things - Purgatory for Everyone
What the Church means by Purgatory
Radio Replies Second Volume - Purgatory
Purgatory Exists. And It Burns
The Month of November: Thoughts on the "Last Things"
To Trace All Souls Day (Protestants vs Catholics)
Radio Replies First Volume - Purgatory
The Doctrine of Purgatory [Ecumenical]
The Heroic Act [Catholic-Orthodox Caucus] (Offering everything for the Souls in Purgatory)
MONTLIGEON MIRACLE: HOW PRIEST TURNED INTO 'TRAVELING SALESMAN' OF PURGATORY

IN BRUSH WITH DEATH, PRIEST SHOWN HELL, PURGATORY, DEGREES OF SUFFERING
Praying for the Dead [All Souls Day] (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
Purgatory: Service Shop for Heaven [Ecumernical]
Beginning Catholic: Catholic Purgatory: What Does It Mean? [Ecumenical]
OF GUARDIAN ANGELS AND THE ROLE THEY PLAY NOT JUST ON EARTH BUT IN PURGATORY [Catholic Caucus]
IN ANNALS OF SAINTS IS CONVERT'S STRIKING DEDICATION TO THOSE SOULS IN PURGATORY [Catholic Caucus]
Explaining Purgatory from a New Testament Perspective [Ecumenical]
PURIFYING THE SOUL ON EARTH IS WORTH 100X WHAT IT TAKES AFTER [Catholic Caucus] What Happens After Death?
Purgatory
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 12: Purgatory

The Doctrine of Purgatory
The Early Church Fathers on Purgatory - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
Required for entrance to Purgatory? Personal question for Cathloic Freepers.
(Protestant) Minister Who Had Near-Death Episode Believes In Purgatory
Straight Answers: What Is Purgatory Like?
Do Catholics Believe in Purgatory?
Purgatory, Indulgences, and the Work of Jesus Christ (Discussion)
Prayer to Release the Souls of Purgatory
The Forgotten Souls in Purgatory
Praying for the dead [Purgatory]

47 posted on 10/26/2012 7:05:30 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

God works as God works.


67 posted on 10/27/2012 8:27:52 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: NYer

What gets me is that Catholics don’t believe in the rapture, because the word “rapture” is not used in the Bible (although the description of the occurrence is very clear), but they take the Purgatory concept hook, line and sinker.


78 posted on 10/27/2012 4:19:01 PM PDT by crosshairs (America: Once the land of the free. Still the home of the brave.)
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To: NYer
Some Protestants, even those who are Purgatory-friendly, have raised an objection to this account. They argue that, if undergoing the pains of Purgatory is necessary for a soul’s purification, then wouldn’t the assistance of the living impair that purification?

Actually, we argue Hebrews 10:10: "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

Purgatory is not necessary unless you believe Christ's sacrifice on the Cross was not enough to save us from all sin. Either Christ is sufficient or He is not. I believe He is. Therefore, Purgatory is thankfully not necessary.

Bless your day.

138 posted on 10/30/2012 5:45:41 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("Don't be afraid to see what you see." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: NYer

bumpus ad sdummum


144 posted on 10/31/2012 1:34:31 PM PDT by Dajjal (Vote for the American.)
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