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To: JimRed
Frankly, after forty plus yeaqrs studying the scriptures, I cannot find it int hem. I can however find Paul's description of the 'snatching away', so the following assertion seems a bit blasphemous:

"In Purgatory, you willingly undergo the quality and quantity of pain and suffering that is uniquely prepared for you so that you may enter Heaven unblemished."

What strikes me immediately is the inference that somehow the efficacy of Christ's blood is not quite enought to cleanse from all unrighteousness! I mean, if the saved have to go to purgatory in order to be 'finished' then God's perspective on Time is limited. Whereas, The God WQho Created all has a temporal perspective which includes all of time, past, present, and future, so the inference that somehow when one is saved God can only cleanse from past sin is, in my honest opinion, blasphemous! But of course, such teachings make the Catholic Church even more powerful, almost the 'thing' God has to have in order to be 'omni'.

But the Catholic Church has been adding stuff to the Bible teachings for twenty millenia, so this is just that much more dross to be burnt away at the final judgement, where every man's deeds will be tried as if by fire.

Oddly, I've never had a Catholic, priest or otherwise, able to explain how it is that those who are alive and remain at the coming of the Lord will be'purgatoried' if they are changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump? If believers need Catholic purgatory in order to be made perfect enough, how does that work at the last trump, when the dead in Christ bodies rise first then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up into the clouds to meet the Returning Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with The Lord???

9 posted on 10/26/2012 2:56:07 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN
What strikes me immediately is the inference that somehow the efficacy of Christ's blood is not quite enought to cleanse from all unrighteousness!

It's quite enough. All Catholics know that and would never question it.

Here is a simple simile to help you understand Purgatory:

Think of Our Lord's Blood tragically flowing down the upright of the Cross, from the wounds in His Feet/Ankles.

When the Holy Blood comes to a prominent knothole, it flows around the edge, like an island diverts a stream. Even though The Lord is quite capable of causing His Blood to flow right through the obstruction, He allows it to be temporarily displaced on its way to the bottom of the Cross, for the useful work that can be completed during the diversion. That island is like Purgatory.

I am not a theologian or even rhetoritician, so I won't attempt to explain the concept further.

14 posted on 10/26/2012 3:38:18 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: MHGinTN

(...If believers need Catholic purgatory in order to be made perfect enough, how does that work at the last trump, when the dead in Christ bodies rise first then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up into the clouds to meet the Returning Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with The Lord??? )

I think those in Purgatory would still be “with the Lord”. Going through a purification process doesn’t mean the Lord isn’t with you. It’s a temporary place and God is with you there too as He was during your earthly time. My earthly parents may have punished me from time to time as a sort of discipline, but they were certainly still with me in every sense, and never abandoned me.


18 posted on 10/26/2012 3:59:24 PM PDT by floridavoter2
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To: MHGinTN
What strikes me immediately is the inference that somehow the efficacy of Christ's blood is not quite enought to cleanse from all unrighteousness!

Catholics believe in the efficacy of Christ's blood! Belief doesn't exempt us from discipline, does it? Doesn't Hebrews 12 tell us that God disciplines those he loves? Chastises every son he receives? That discipline is what a loving parent does to his children? Do you believe this discipline means that Christ's blood was not efficacious?

if the saved have to go to purgatory in order to be 'finished' then God's perspective on Time is limited.

The saved don't "have to go to purgatory in order to be 'finished.' " What Catholics believe is that those of us who still clung to various sins will choose to undergo a final discipline (purifying, purgation, sanctification) before entering into the glory of heaven. And we think of it not as a period of time (it could be instantaneous) or a place but a state of further purification in preparation to behold the vision of God forever. And it's something we choose more than something we're sentenced to.

Whereas, The God WQho Created all has a temporal perspective which includes all of time, past, present, and future, so the inference that somehow when one is saved God can only cleanse from past sin is, in my honest opinion, blasphemous!

It isn't that God can't cleanse me whenever he likes. It's that I chose to cling to some of my dirt. Purgatory is his final, loving discipline, a great act of mercy. He's treating me as his child before presenting me to his glorious kingdom. And it is only because of the merit of Christ's sacrifice that I get that final sanctification or the entry into his kingdom afterward.

Peace be with you. Say what you will about us Catholics, but my parish will be meeting tonight for a prayer vigil as we do every Friday evening before the elections. Will you unite with me in prayer this evening, for even a moment, to pray for our nation? Thanks :)

23 posted on 10/26/2012 4:28:21 PM PDT by PeevedPatriot ("A wise man's heart inclines him toward the right, but a fool's heart toward the left."--Eccl 10:2)
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