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Following Jesus Yet Still Hindu or Sikh? Mission Leaders Weigh In on New Communities
Christian Post ^ | 10/30/2012 | Michelle Vu

Posted on 11/01/2012 3:12:33 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

It doesn't sound right: someone claiming to be both a follower of Jesus Christ while still identifying himself as a Hindu or Sikh. But some respected missiologists are defending the new communities in India called Yeshu Satsang as biblical.

Formed as a direct response to broken relationships that Hindus or Sikhs in India who convert to Christianity often must endure, members of Yeshu Satsangs seek to follow the Bible while still retaining their cultural identity as Hindu or Sikh, and thus retaining harmonious relationships with their family members and community. The communities are also a pushback against Western ways of worshipping Jesus that is seen as "other" and foreign to the community. A Yeshu Satsang can loosely be defined as a gathering of Jesus followers whose members are socially still identified as Hindus or Sikhs.

"Even though [they have] rejected the word and practices of church, they have retained a theological identity of church while seeking to retain their Hindu and Sikh socio-religious identity," explained Darren Duerksen, director and assistant professor of Intercultural Studies at Fresno Pacific University, at the recent North American Mission Leaders Conference in Chicago.

The Yeshu Satsang leaders Duerksen – who spent six years in India as a missionary and scholar – had met all come from Hindu or Sikh background, and were discipled in Christian churches or parachurch organizations, he shared during the breakout session titled "Must Insiders be Churchless? Exploring 'Insiders' models of 'church.'" Some of these Indian leaders started Yeshu Satsangs after reaching an understanding that distinguishes between the Hindu or Sikh ideology and their commitment to Jesus.

These gatherings started some seven to eight years ago, and Yeshu Satsangs are concentrated mostly in Northwest India. Although there is no official count of how many Yeshu Satsangs there are in India, Duerksen estimates that there are at least 40 but less than 100 of these groups, each with at most 15 to 20 members.

The missions professor, in general, defended the Yeshu Satsangs that he had observed in India, and advised fellow missions leaders to consider the following points when making judgment about the new communities:

• Is the local church incarnational? Does it reflect Jesus?

• Is the community of believers committed to each other and Christ?

• How do the Yeshu Satsangs seek to shape their socio-religious identity? How do they negotiate their identity within Hindu and Sikh communities?

"Each of these Yeshu Satsangs [I have seen] emphasizes the teachings of Jesus as part of the path of following him," said Duerksen. "The Bible, for example, is seen and honored as God's word. It is given a high level of authority. Even where Yeshu Satsangs have a respect for the Hindu and Sikh scriptures, the Bible is emphasized as a higher and the ultimate authority. The Bible is used therefore throughout the Yeshu Satsang meetings. The leaders encourage their people to have their own and to read it on their own during their week."

Different Religious Practices

While these Jesus followers that Duerksen observed identify themselves as Hindu or Sikh while following the teachings of the Bible, they freely change the Christian religious practices to be more in line with those in their community. For example, instead of using bread and wine or grape juice for communion, Yeshu Satsangs often modify the Christian sacrament and use a coconut and coconut milk.

Baptism, in particular, is a sensitive area for Yeshu Satsangs because the groups' leaders feel that it has taken extra-biblical meaning by the way Indian churches conduct them. Baptism of former Hindus or Sikhs is often seen by the church as well as local Indian governments as a change in socio-religious status, with some local governments even imposing a separate set of laws for Christians on the newly baptized. However, while Yeshu Satsangs do baptize new followers of Jesus, they don't ask them to change their social-religious communities. Moreover, they often don't call the practice baptism, but use a more culturally familiar term, such as those used for initiation of disciples by a guru.

"So thus, Yeshu Satsangs leaders use the Bible, practice the Lord's Supper, and baptism in ways that reflect their devotion to Jesus but also seek to minimize some of the otherness in the eyes of Hindus and Sikhs," explained Duerksen.

Also, Yeshu Satsangs sing songs call bhajans that are similar to Hindu bhajans, which promote a Hindu identity to their neighbors while also helping them praise God without cultural barriers, said the Fresno Pacific professor. Indian Christians who attend traditional churches sing Western hymns or Western-style songs, instead.

But one of the more controversial practices of Yeshu Satsangs is that its members still go to Hindu or Sikh temples. The satsang members discuss and decide among themselves which temple events are permissible to attend. Satsang members also will sometimes accept prasad, or food that is offered to Hindu gods. Some of them will accept the offered food to be polite and later discard it when the giver is out of sight, while some will also eat the prasad.

Christian churches in India strictly teach that converts cannot accept or eat offered food, but Yeshu Satsang members are more flexible in their teaching on this issue, trying to balance their desire to maintain relationships with their community while also following Jesus. There is no hard and fast rule among Yeshu Satsangs regarding prasad. Yeshu Satsangs do not accept idolatry, however, but they usually allow members a longer time to stop idol worship, waiting for them to mature and naturally understand through Bible studies.

Relationship With Wider Christian Community

Many Yeshu Satsangs, given the reason why they started, do not actively seek to fellowship with churches in their area in India. Yeshu Satsangs were formed out of what they felt was Indian churches' cultural insensitivity and thus are reluctant to also closely identify themselves with Christian churches. This leads some mission leaders to criticize these communities for their apparent isolation from the wider Christ-following community.

"This is an important point, but in this critique we need to be careful not to hold the Yeshu Satsangs or any other beginning insider groups to a standard higher than we hold to our churches and denominations," warned Duerksen. He noted that in Western Christianity there are many examples of churches cutting ties with other churches over differences in practices and doctrines.

"Even in contemporary times, various denominations remain highly isolated from and suspect of other churches," he pointed out. "And while we would lament this and urge for greater levels of trust and cooperation, the identity of such denominations as churches would rarely be questioned on the basis of their trust towards others."

Relationship With the Hindu or Sikh Community

Unlike Jesus followers who attend Christian churches in India, those who are part of Yeshu Satsangs tell their family members that they love Jesus but have not changed their religion.

"Religion in this case is understood not so much as doctrines, philosophies or ideologies, but rather as part of the community and its culture," explains Duerksen. "The satsangs are thus arguing that they can stay within their Sikh and Hindu communities, while changing the focus of their personal devotion to Jesus."

Duerksen gave an example of one satsang leader identified as Ravi who says he is not a Christian, but a Hindu, even though he is devoted to Jesus. Ravi would defend his Hindu identity even though he follows Jesus by saying, "On my birth form it is written: Hindu. And I live in Hindu style and I speak Hindi. That is why I am a Hindu. Also, Hindu is not a religion, it is a community."

Hindus are permitted to pray and give devotions to deities of other communities and still call themselves Hindus, Ravi would point out.

"The Yeshu Satsangs are, or seeking to be, subgroups within the Hindu and Sikh communities, while being church in the theological sense," the professor said. "This is clear that the Yeshu Satsangs are pioneering something that is generally quite unique and important to their context and are attracting people who may not otherwise follow Jesus within the context of the Christian church." He continued, "It is too early to say whether or not this model of church will result in a wider movement of Christ followers in India. However, at the very least there is reason to encourage the development of Christ communities that adhere to the biblical contours of church while socially reflecting India's rich identities."

Former Hindu Turned Pastor and Missiologist Weigh In While Duerksen mostly praised and defended the Yeshu Satsangs based on his experience, former Hindu and now Pastor Ananth Kumar of First Baptist Church of Rahway in New Jersey had a less favorable opinion.

Kumar, who is a Southern Baptist, shared with The Christian Post during the Chicago mission conference that he had visited a Yeshu Satsang in Toronto, Canada that was "shocking" to him. He described the setting as having more flowers, candlesticks and fruits than he had seen in Hindu temples. Kumar said that he felt the over-contextualizing of the satsang could lead to "danger." He noted there was no cross in the building where the satsang demonstration was given, and there was a picture of Jesus with a candle in front of his photo as well as milk and sliced bananas. A photo of Mary and baby Jesus was also on display.

"Hindus coming to satsangs and seeing that think, 'Oh, they are doing exactly the same thing that I am, so what is the difference between my temple and this Christian satsang," the former Hindu asked. "That is exactly what happened in Toronto."

He informed CP that he asked the satsang leaders how long they have been holding satsangs and how many people have dedicated their life to Christ. The leaders replied that they have been holding such gatherings for several years and there have been zero conversion, zero baptism, and no commitment, according to Kumar.

The former-Hindu-turned-preacher was also disturbed that at the satsang in Toronto they used the word Bhagwan, which is a term for God that is not biblical, as well as Ishwar, which is used by practicing Hindus to also refer to God.

"This is really wrong," Kumar said of the satsang he witnessed in Toronto. "We definitely didn't feel the presence of God at all … you are totally compromising to Hindu songs. There were no words of yeshu, Jesus was not mentioned in those songs."

For the communion, the satsang leaders in Toronto put a slice of banana in the participants' palm and dropped milk on it.

"That is totally wrong. That is completely being practiced by Hindus. If I am Hindu in Bombay or Toronto or somewhere, and I practice same thing as communion, then what is the difference between my temple and this Christian satsang?" he asked. "I rather continue to not bother my relatives, not bother religion and not offend anyone. So just let me continue as a Hindu."

He recalled his own Holy Communion experience. He had heard the Gospel for two or three months at that time and asked a church leader if he could take part in communion. But the leader asked if he had confessed his sins and received the Lord yet. He said no, and was guided on how to do that.

"That day, I closed my eyes, I knelt, I cried, I wept when I saw Christ being crucified. So that was a turning point," recalled Kumar. "So that communion is very important. Communion is fundamental basis of our Christian faith. You cannot compromise that communion with other form used by other religions. Communion is very sacred, that is why we call it Holy Communion. You cannot compromise it with a piece of banana and milk." But Greg Parsons, global director of the U.S. Center for World Mission, cautioned against judging a whole movement by one or a few examples.

"I think the most important first thing to realize is these movements are all over the map doctrinally," said Parsons to CP. "So you can't judge one by another." "So if these movements are coming to Christ, and they are focused on the Bible, then they will likely straighten out. If they are not, then they probably won't. And that is the principle of McGavern (Donald McGavern, 20th century missiologist), that the key thing to look at in a movement is, is the Bible central as the authority to them or something else? If the Bible is central, then they will likely get straightened out as they spend more time with the Bible."


TOPICS: Eastern Religions; Evangelical Christian; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: christian; hindu; jesus; sikh

1 posted on 11/01/2012 3:12:46 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
The former-Hindu-turned-preacher was also disturbed that at the satsang in Toronto they used the word Bhagwan, which is a term for God that is not biblical, as well as Ishwar, which is used by practicing Hindus to also refer to God.

Umm, I'll try to put this politely, but the word "God" is also not found in the Bible. It's an English word, and the English language didn't exist when the Bible was written.

(Most) Christians have always used the terms found in their language for God and Lord, even though those words were previously or simultaneously used to address pagan deities.

For that matter, the NT writers themselves used common Greek terms for God and Lord, even though they were used for pagan gods and even for the Emperor.

Heck, one of Paul's close companions was called Apollos, and Paul seemed to not have a problem with his not changing his name.

2 posted on 11/01/2012 3:25:11 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: SeekAndFind

Here is now I think Jesus is seen by the largest religions:

Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet and respect all Judeo-Christian prophets. They just are more strict in their definition of God as they feel that believing God has a son is idolatry and blasphemy. They even believe Jesus was virgin born, but not son of God.

Hindus, although no relationship to Jesus or Christianity ideologically, have adopted Jesus in their pantheon and culture. They have no trouble calling Jesus a God or son of God. More liberal Hindus celebrate Christmas... although Santa Clause more so than Jesus (that is true even in the West). Fundamentalist Hindus are attempting to cleanse Christian influence, but that is a futile attempt similar to fundamentalist Christians trying to cleanse secular influence in the West.

Buddhism is strange one as it does not compete with religions as one could be a self proclaimed Christian, but have actually Buddhist philosophical leanings.


3 posted on 11/01/2012 3:34:16 PM PDT by sagar
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To: Sherman Logan

The Chinese seem to know of one God from long before Buddhism and Taoism was introduced in the country.

The term SHANG TI ( Emperor Above ) was and is still used for God.

Confucius calls God — TIEN ( Heaven ).

There is also a generic term for God in ancient China — SHEN.

However, Chinese Christians know the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob by YHWH ( Pronouncing it YEHOWAH ).


4 posted on 11/01/2012 3:35:17 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: sagar

The Indian Sikhs (yes, I’m talking about those bearded ones who wear Turbans) are on the other hand, Monotheistic.

The concept of God in Sikhism is uncompromisingly monotheistic, as symbolized by “Ik Onkar” (one God), a central tenet of Sikh philosophy.

The fundamental belief of Sikhism is that God exists, indescribable yet knowable and perceivable to anyone who is prepared to dedicate the time and energy to become perceptive to their persona.

The Sikh gurus (Holy teachers) have described God in numerous ways in their hymns included in the Guru Granth Sahib, the holy scripture of Sikhism, but the oneness of the deity is consistently emphasized throughout.


5 posted on 11/01/2012 3:38:27 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Sherman Logan

Ironic than the true Biblical word for “God” is actually closer to “Allah” than “God” or “Lord”. God just means something invoked, a very pagan concept.


6 posted on 11/01/2012 3:39:08 PM PDT by sagar
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To: sagar

RE: Ironic than the true Biblical word for “God” is actually closer to “Allah” than “God” or “Lord”.

EL-OHIM is closer to Allah? Hmmmm...


7 posted on 11/01/2012 3:42:47 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Sherman Logan

I know many Chinese immigrants, all proud new American citizens. Some are both Buddhists and Christians. They say, “One is the way to live, the other is the way to God.” All good, hard-working people, about 90% Conservative. The women crack me up! They cannot understand American women swooning for obama. They find them quite mindless!


8 posted on 11/01/2012 3:44:58 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: SeekAndFind

“EL-OHIM is closer to Allah? Hmmmm..”

Yes, ELOHIM is much closer to ALLAH. God comes from a completely separate language family and loan word from people who invoked their diety’s divine power. Words like Diety, Lord, Divinity, God, etc are all pagan/non-JudeoChristian in origin and meaning.


9 posted on 11/01/2012 3:48:08 PM PDT by sagar
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To: SeekAndFind

SeekAndFind,

Well written. I have studied Sikhism extensively in my trips to Panjab (due to business)

Sikhs are uncompromisingly monotheistic.

In fact in Sikhism, God is so all powerful and all encompasing that Sikhs have a wonderful hymn:

“Even if an infinite number of men spent an infinite amount of time contemplating about God...they would still not comprehend the infinite majesty of God”

So, it is hard to talk about any progeny of God with a Sikh. Keep in mind that this is not the first time Sikhs have heard about this.

Hindus believe that Krishna was God Incarnate, born of a Virgin mother to fulfill a prophecy and save Humankind. By his birth and death, humanity is forever saved.


10 posted on 11/01/2012 3:49:05 PM PDT by SoftwareEngineer
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To: SoftwareEngineer

RE: I have studied Sikhism extensively in my trips to Panjab (due to business)

Sikhs are uncompromisingly monotheistic.

________________

Thanks. I have worked with several Sikhs too ( many in the technical field ).

In conversing with Sikhs ( the serious ones ), I have found this monotheism very refreshing in that it makes some of them very interested in hearing about the gospel.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is something they can already relate to somewhat. That He is also a God who is not distant but LOVES mankind is something they find interesting.

It isn’t that Christianity is alien or abhorrent to them, it is the huge cultural and familial and communal changes they have to face if they were to convert.

I believe this article highlights one of those difficulties.


11 posted on 11/01/2012 3:56:25 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

It doesn’t matter what religion a man is, the anatomy & physiology of his BODY is the same as everyone else.

It doesn’t matter what religion a man is, the anatomy & physiology of his SOUL is the same as everyone else.

When you understand the anatomy & physiology of the soul, all religions are teaching the same thing in different ways.

In Buddhism and Hinduism there is a parable of five blind me who are led to an elephant for the first time and asked to describe it.

One blind man gets the trunk and says an elephant is like a python.

One gets the tail and says an elephant is like a rope.

One gets an ear and says an elephant is like a palm tree.

One man gets a leg and says an elephant is like a column in a temple.

And one man gets the side and says that an elephant is like a stone wall.

All are correct, but none understand the totality of what an elephant is.

All the religions are like the many blind men led to the elephant. They all have a part of the picture, but don’t understand the human soul and what Jesus was teaching.

Many years ago I spent a week with the Zen Buddhist Monk Tich Nhat Hanh. There was a Methodist minister there with me who made a statement at the end of the week that was like a baseball bat to the side of my head. He said,”After all my years at the pulpit teaching Christianity, I can honestly say that I have never really understood it until now when I look at Christianity from a Buddhist perspective.”

If one digs deep enough, all religions teach the same thing. St Theresa’s description of her spiritual awakening in the “interior castle” is very similar to Gopi Krishna’s description of his kundalini awakening in the Hindu tradition.

I’ve spent twenty plus years studying spiritual awakenings and mysticism in all religions. While I am Christian, I am just as much Buddhist and Hindu. When you go to the original writings and shed the man made baggage added to it, they all say the same thing.


12 posted on 11/01/2012 3:56:33 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: tired&retired

You are hopelessly blind and eternally lost.

Pray to the Father to have your eyes opened.

Christ is the way, the only way, to the Father; if you believe otherwise, you are not a believer, and thus are in darkness.


13 posted on 11/01/2012 4:00:44 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Sherman Logan

The name of God is YHWH.

That is what he told us, and we must call out to him by his name.

His name means the eternal I Am. (I was, I am, I shall be)


14 posted on 11/01/2012 4:04:36 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: SeekAndFind

SeekAndFind,

The challenge you will have with any Sikh is that Sikhs ALREADY believe they worship the same ONE God

Sikhs have a saying “There are many ways to climb a mountain peak”. What that means is that there is only ONE God (the mountain peak) and many ways to get to him

So a Sikh does not feel the need to convert. A Sikh already believes that Jews and Christians are going to heaven being Sikhs and Jews.

So, he (she) feels no need to convert as you cannot offer anything spiritually to them.

Sikhs are inclusive so telling them that “only Christians/Jews will be saved” actually is offensive to them.

Sikhs believe in “Sarbat da bhalla” (Mutual benefit of all humanity) and they will DIE (and have done so in the hundreds of thousands) for someone of another faith.

For them God is universal and His love is Universal. So, to talk to them about restricting God to His “chosen religions” is considered offensive

That is why you see very few Sikhs convert to Christianity but Sikhs will intermarry with Christians at very high rates WITHOUT asking their spouses to convert

Unique and brave people


15 posted on 11/01/2012 4:05:46 PM PDT by SoftwareEngineer
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

>> “Some are both Buddhists and Christians” <<

.
Not possible!

Read his commandments; they exclude all other “gods.”

If you do not keep his commandments, he says you are not his.


16 posted on 11/01/2012 4:09:31 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: SoftwareEngineer

>> “The challenge you will have with any Sikh is that Sikhs ALREADY believe they worship the same ONE God” <<

.
But they do not. That is the nature of darkness.

Their knee must bow to Yeshua, as Lord of Lords, and King of Kings; no exceptions.


17 posted on 11/01/2012 4:12:11 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: SoftwareEngineer

RE: Sikhs have a saying “There are many ways to climb a mountain peak”. What that means is that there is only ONE God (the mountain peak) and many ways to get to him

Yes, this is the challenge.

As a Christian, I do not know why the Bible does not provide many ways to God. All I know is that the above belief is at odds with what Jesus said to His disciples:

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”


18 posted on 11/01/2012 4:12:44 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: tired&retired

“If one digs deep enough, all religions teach the same thing.”

All religions teach salvation through Jesus Christ??

Maybe you’re the one who doesn’t understand what Jesus was teaching.


19 posted on 11/01/2012 4:14:49 PM PDT by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: sagar

YHWH is nothing like Allah.

The word god simply means one that is worshipped. There are many ‘gods.’


20 posted on 11/01/2012 4:16:37 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: SeekAndFind

>> “As a Christian, I do not know why the Bible does not provide many ways to God.” <<

.
Really?

He told us why: It must be a sinless kinsman redeemer, and there was no way to provide more; he has one begotten son, his own incarnation on Earth.


21 posted on 11/01/2012 4:20:04 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

They do not consider Buddha to be God. They consider his teachings as a way of life, and Christ’s teachings to be the path to God.


22 posted on 11/01/2012 4:23:07 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: editor-surveyor

I am a Christian and I also believe and know that you can’t get to God except through Jesus. Most people think of a linear path. It is not. When Jesus said, “I am in My Father and My Father is in Me.... and if you are in Me then My Father who is In Me is also in you.... He was speaking the truth.

I can explain it all logically and scientifically (much with quantum physics) and demonstrate much of it in group settings. For some reason unknown to me, after I died and returned to this body I can read people’s souls and understand the Bible a bit different than most. I do not discount one word though.


23 posted on 11/01/2012 4:23:26 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: editor-surveyor

Then why did God not incarnate Himself as sinless kinsman redeemer to India, China and other places in the world?

Why just Israel?

That is my question.

I’m not questioning the sinlessness of Christ and the sinfulness of man and why we need a savior, I simply DO NOT KNOW why this was done ONLY IN ONE PLACE and not in other places.

He has His ultimate purpose of course, of which I am not privy to.


24 posted on 11/01/2012 4:24:20 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: tired&retired

There is but “One God,” but called many different names.

If I call you by a different name, does that make you a different person?


25 posted on 11/01/2012 4:25:14 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: tired&retired

Most Christians treat Jesus like a lifeguard that can pluck them out (save them) when they are drowning. Jesus was a Rabbi, a teacher who stated to His disciples when He sent them out “The things that I do and more you to shall do in my name.”

Which would you sooner have, a lifeguard that waits until you are drowning and rescues you, (in the interim you are afraid of water...i.e death) or a lifeguard that teaches you how to swim? Jesus was teaching us how to swim. there is much more to his teachings than most people realize.


26 posted on 11/01/2012 4:31:10 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: SeekAndFind

““I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

The soul expands the more it is cleansed and the more it is allowed to grow. Imagine Russian nesting dolls and we are the doll in the middle and God is the big doll on the outside. There are many dolls in between. One of those dolls could be Jesus and One Krishna and one Buddha and no matter what religion you are, you must go through Jesus to get to God. I will not try to state which sequence of dolls is which teacher.


27 posted on 11/01/2012 4:37:36 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: SeekAndFind

Man does not live on coconuts alone...

To be relevant to today’s society, why don’t we switch to cola and twinkies?


28 posted on 11/01/2012 4:54:13 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: SeekAndFind
I simply DO NOT KNOW why this was done ONLY IN ONE PLACE and not in other places.

But do you know that it wasn't done in other places in other ways?

Maybe it wasn't, but religious syncretism is a common phenomenon, usually where different cultures or civilizations meet and interact.

29 posted on 11/01/2012 4:57:31 PM PDT by x
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To: SeekAndFind

Man does not live on coconuts alone...

To be relevant to today’s society, why don’t we switch to cola and twinkies?


30 posted on 11/01/2012 5:01:07 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: SeekAndFind

Man does not live on coconuts alone...

To be relevant to today’s society, why don’t we switch to cola and twinkies?


31 posted on 11/01/2012 5:01:39 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: SeekAndFind; Sherman Logan
Hinduism will accept any deity as it is a meta-religion rather than a fixed religion. It has absorbed various Dravidian etc. deities and also absorbed Buddha. It would absorb Christ as another God. Hindus could also resolve Christianity as part of the one Sanatana Dharma

But I don't understand how Sikhs could do this -- they are theoretically monotheistic

32 posted on 11/01/2012 10:56:25 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: SeekAndFind; Sherman Logan; sagar
I don't understand this And I live in Hindu style and I speak Hindi. That is why I am a Hindu. Also, Hindu is not a religion, it is a community

"hindu style"? There are various Hindu cultural beliefs -- at the broadest level, everyone in the Indian continent follows a Hindu style except for the westernised folks (of all religions)

To speak Hindi defines one as Hindu? huh? There are many Christians or Moslems who speak Hindi and there are many Hindus who don't.

33 posted on 11/01/2012 10:58:17 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: SeekAndFind; Sherman Logan; sagar

Sherman is also correct — Bhagwan means God. If the Satsangs were calling God Krishna or Ayyappa, that would be a issue,but Bhagwan is the Indic term for God. Just as Illah (not A llah) is the Arabic term for God.


34 posted on 11/01/2012 10:59:44 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: SeekAndFind; sagar

Seek — sagar is talking etymologically, in terms of language origins, rather than theologically. El-ohim and il-lah (NOT al-lah, note sagar) are from the semitic language tree


35 posted on 11/01/2012 11:01:20 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: editor-surveyor; sagar; SeekAndFind
e-s --> you are correct that etymologically speaking YHWH is not in the same root as Al-illah (allah).

Sagar was indicating the words "God" and "Allah" are etymologically (not theologically) rooted in the same semitic language

YHWH as the name of God is not etymologically linked to "the God" which is the translation of Al-ilah

36 posted on 11/01/2012 11:04:00 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

well, you’re talking of Theravada Buddhism. some aspects of Buddhism treat him as a God


37 posted on 11/01/2012 11:04:59 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: SeekAndFind

Gal 1:6-9
(6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
(7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
(8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
(9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1Co 8:1-13
(1) Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
(2) And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
(3) But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
(4) As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
(5) For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
(6) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(7) Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
(8) But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
(9) But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
(10) For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
(11) And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
(12) But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
(13) Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.


38 posted on 11/02/2012 1:21:45 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: tired&retired
Deuteronomy 4:19
...and lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

Malichi 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

39 posted on 11/02/2012 8:57:10 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: SeekAndFind

>> “ I simply DO NOT KNOW why this was done ONLY IN ONE PLACE and not in other places.” <<

.
Your argument seems irrational. The gospel has been spread to all of the inhabitants of the Earth by his apostles in the first century. They went to India, China, Japan, Turkey, Athens, Macedonia, Rome, Scicily, France, Britan, and anywhere that a ship could travel, with the same pure message.

We happen to have the Greek received text because that was the cultural center of what became Europe, but the same gospel went to the whole world. The problem is that most of the world was not populated with his elect, and the gospel died in most areas for that simple reason.

To have planted multiple Yeshuas around the world would have generated confusion, and blunted the fact that there is but one path to the Father.


40 posted on 11/02/2012 9:59:14 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: tired&retired

>> “ Jesus was a Rabbi, a teacher...” <<

.
Jesus IS the incarnate YHWH; he lives today.

Jesus IS the only path to eternal life for his kinsmen (you and me).


41 posted on 11/02/2012 10:08:22 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

RE: To have planted multiple Yeshuas around the world would have generated confusion, and blunted the fact that there is but one path to the Father.

How so?

I don’t see how THE SAME Yeshua appearing IN THE CULTURE OF India, China, Japan speaking to them the same way He spoke to the Jews of His time IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE THROUGH THEIR OWN CULTURE, is irrational.

If He spoke to them WITH CONSISTENCY, WITH THE SAME MESSAGE, AND THE SAME AUTHORITY HE DID IN ISRAEL, I don’t see how that could create confusion. In fact, it might even CORROBORATE the same message given to the Jews.

C.S. Lewis re-imagined Yeshua as Aslan the Lion in Narnia and I don’t see Christians calling Lewis irrational.

Here is a quote from that book:

“I am [in your world].’ said Aslan. ‘But there I have another name. You must learn to know me by that name. This was the very reason why you were brought to Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there.”

Maybe you’re right -— God prefers MISSIONARIES doing the job instead of having Him doing all the brunt work.

But I don’t see how thinking about Him doing it a different way is irrational.

It’s simply His sovereign way of dealing with things. That is why I used the 4 words — “I-DON’T-KNOW-WHY”.

(Edit to add — Maybe it was only necessary for Yeshua to shed His blood once, and there is no need for Him to do it multiple times <-— Now that, could be a better answer ).


42 posted on 11/02/2012 10:12:49 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

>> “Maybe it was only necessary for Yeshua to shed His blood once, and there is no need for Him to do it multiple times” <<

.
Good you got it right!


43 posted on 11/02/2012 1:12:30 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: SeekAndFind

>> “Maybe it was only necessary for Yeshua to shed His blood once, and there is no need for Him to do it multiple times” <<

.
Good you got it right!


44 posted on 11/02/2012 1:13:27 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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