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Vatican vows to fight gay marriage after gains in U.S., Europe
Reuters ^ | November 11, 2012 | Philip Pullella

Posted on 11/11/2012 12:30:05 PM PST by NYer

VATICAN CITY, Nov 10 (Reuters) - The Vatican, reacting to strong gains for gay marriage in the United States and Europe, on Saturday pledged never to stop fighting attempts to "erase" the privileged role of heterosexual marriage, which it called it "an achievement of civilisation".

For the second consecutive day, Vatican media weighed in with forceful editorials restating the Roman Catholic Church's unequivocal opposition.

"It is clear that in Western countries there is a widespread tendency to modify the classic vision of marriage between a man and woman, or rather to try to give it up, erasing its specific and privileged legal recognition compared to other forms of union," Father Federico Lombardi, said in a tough editorial on Vatican Radio.

Voters in the U.S. states of Maryland, Maine and Washington state approved same-sex marriage on Tuesday, marking the first time marriage rights have been extended to same-sex couples by popular vote.

Same-sex unions have been legalized in six states and the District of Columbia by lawmakers or courts.

Lombardi's editorial on Vatican Radio, which is broadcast around the world in some 30 languages, called the votes myopic, saying "the logic of it cannot have a far-sighted outlook for the common good".

Lombardi, who is also the Vatican's chief spokesman as well as director of Vatican Radio and Vatican Television, said there was "public acknowledgement" that "monogamous marriage between a man and woman is an achievement of civilisation".

"If not, why not contemplate also freely chosen polygamy and, not to discriminate, polyandry?" he said.

Polyandry is when a woman has more than one husband.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuality is not a sin but homosexual acts are. It says the rights of homosexuals should be guaranteed but that their unions should not be recognised as equal to heterosexuals and they should not be allowed to adopt children.

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: homosexual; homosexualagenda; marriage; vatican

1 posted on 11/11/2012 12:30:12 PM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Catholic Ping!


2 posted on 11/11/2012 12:30:56 PM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: NYer

So, how’s that civil registration thing working out for you?


3 posted on 11/11/2012 12:33:30 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: NYer

I hope that the Vatican sees that its vigorous promotion of socialism as the solution to the plight of the poor is not disconnected from the decline of sexual morality in the West.


4 posted on 11/11/2012 12:44:57 PM PST by TheConservativeBanker
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To: NYer

Johnny come late.


5 posted on 11/11/2012 12:44:59 PM PST by Morris70
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To: muawiyah

Interesting to note that there was a time, not so long ago - where Catholic marriages were not recognized by the civil authorities in Italy. I foresee this will return, where the state will not accept marriages performed by the Catholic church.


6 posted on 11/11/2012 12:45:53 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: NYer
Did they just notice the problem now?

Little bit late there.

7 posted on 11/11/2012 12:46:38 PM PST by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 11/07/12)
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To: TheConservativeBanker

Indeed. Social Justice parties also support a wide range of policies that are contrary to Church teaching. Stop smooching the butts of Socialists and try supporting parties that share your cultural values.


8 posted on 11/11/2012 12:50:33 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: JCBreckenridge
They've been back and forth on the various permutations of civil and religious registration all over Europe for centuries. That process will continue.

The next stage of normal European transformation is the move from the large nation-state to the small principality with idiosyncratic rules.

That's usually set off by some sort of calamity of horrendous proportions.

Just a matter of time.

9 posted on 11/11/2012 12:54:22 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: NYer
As God said, the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church. The devil is constantly working to destroy the Catholic Church. While some people insist on protesting the Catholic Church, the Church holds strong to the Truth.
10 posted on 11/11/2012 1:00:15 PM PST by mtg
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To: NYer

They will let the clergy get polluted by allowing gays and pedofhiles within the churches rank but by God they will not allow them to get married. The church must draw the line somewhere. Having anul sex with children is okay and should not be any reason to question who you are as a church but we will fight for preserving marriage.

The catholics will vote in droves for Obama and all that he stands for (too numerous to itemize here and now) but gay marriage is out of the question. The church must draw a line somewhere.

What hypocracy.

If the catholic church could find a way to make money on the deal, the pope would conduct the ceremony. Maybe they could do it on bingo night.


11 posted on 11/11/2012 1:04:09 PM PST by dirtymac
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To: muawiyah

It would be a reversal of the Peace of Westphalia. History classes don’t spend enough time on it.


12 posted on 11/11/2012 1:09:27 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: NYer

Another “forceful” article by the Vatican.

If they actually start feeding Christians to the lions again, maybe they will even run a TV commercial strongly issuing concern.


13 posted on 11/11/2012 1:12:20 PM PST by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: dirtymac

“They will let the clergy get polluted by allowing gays and pedofhiles within the churches rank but by God they will not allow them to get married.”

Just like we’re the only ones to hold the line on contraception? Never happen.


14 posted on 11/11/2012 1:27:55 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: NYer
If not, why not contemplate also freely chosen polygamy and, not to discriminate, polyandry?

Not to pick, but it's my nature. Polygamy is inclusive of polyandry, not in competition with it. The gender specific forms are polygyny (multiple wives) and polyandry (multiple husbands). Polygamy is inclusive of both.

15 posted on 11/11/2012 1:35:03 PM PST by Melas (u)
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To: JCBreckenridge

Truly dramatic natural calamities that return Europe and other places to a pre-medieval state are rather outside the Treaties of Westphalia.


16 posted on 11/11/2012 1:35:03 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: TheConservativeBanker

The church is heroic on divorce and male-female marriage issues, and pro-life. But it has a huge blind spot on socialism.

Fortunately, real Catholics do vote Republican —

“Frequency of attendance at religious services revealed a significant gap in support for the candidates, with those attending “weekly” at 39 percent Obama, 59 percent Romney, “occasionally” at 55 percent Obama and 43 percent Romney and “never” at 62 percent Obama and 34 percent Romney.”


17 posted on 11/11/2012 1:53:44 PM PST by heye2monn (A)
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To: muawiyah
The next stage of normal European transformation is the move from the large nation-state to the small principality with idiosyncratic rules.

Well, they're definitely doing that now. Look at Catalonia, Scotland, etc.

Unfortunately, much of this is motivated by leftist/anarchist bloc, and I think the Church is going to suffer greatly in some of these areas. Time to review the Spanish Civil War...

18 posted on 11/11/2012 2:22:30 PM PST by livius
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To: livius
The EU structure actually encourages revival of small states ~ why should Brittany, for instance, go through Paris when it can call a Brittany desk officer in Brussels ~ and if they don't care what he says, take a vote on it.

What's not to like.

It will still take a big breakthrough like Berlin asking for a return to Brandenburg, or maybe Venice seeking total autonomy

19 posted on 11/11/2012 2:32:13 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: dirtymac; icwhatudo

Sheesh! Any thread about something good the Church is doing brings out the Catholic haters in droves. Why don’t you all take a deep breath and go back to Westboro Baptist Church (which, btw, is not truly Baptist but uses the name only because anybody can call themselves Baptist)?

“Gay marriage” is going to be the thing that will be used to silence and illegalize the Church in both Europe and the US. The Obamacare oppression doesn’t really need to get going. Now that all these countries have legalized gay marriage, becuase most people (Catholic, Protestant or agnostic) think that if something is legal under Caesar, it’s moral and legitimate, when Caesar comes after the Church on this issue, there will be no support.

And I think many people on FR, I hate to say it, would be cheering on the destruction of the Church. But we’re your only hope, so don’t be too hasty.


20 posted on 11/11/2012 2:33:26 PM PST by livius
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To: muawiyah

Well, that’s true, because Europe never worked out the federalism system very well (and we are now undoing it here in the US).

But the problem is that the small states have no power, will be totally undefended unless they can work out some security agreements with the states from which they have defected, and will be much poorer because they are now relying on a lot of things that they get either from the “big state” (France, Spain, England, etc.) or from the EU through these states. Catalunya complains about the rest of Spain, but it has the highest per capita debt in Spain, at least in part because its local government has lavished money on promoting Catalan and did not even care when a few big US corporations relocated to Madrid because no company wanted to pay for their employees to use a politically motivated local language revival.


21 posted on 11/11/2012 2:40:04 PM PST by livius
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To: JCBreckenridge

Not the pre-Vatican II sects,

which calls out the errors of Vatican II—the Trojan Horse.

“By their fruits, you will know them”. We see the fruits of Vatican II and they are really, really ugly.....and a total rejection of tradition (Marxism) and God.

I love Catholic Theology and St. Thomas Aquinas—who was ejected—(The Father of Catholic Theology).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A3iVQixyTg&feature=context-vrec


22 posted on 11/11/2012 2:42:43 PM PST by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: NYer

Ultimately it will be human nature that defeats “gay marriage”.


23 posted on 11/11/2012 3:39:02 PM PST by Salman
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To: TheConservativeBanker
I hope that the Vatican sees that its vigorous promotion of socialism as the solution to the plight of the poor is not disconnected from the decline of ... the West.

edited for you. The modern Catholic church is socialist first, Christian second, maybe third or fourth.

24 posted on 11/11/2012 3:57:38 PM PST by RugerMini14
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To: livius
Sheesh! Any thread about something good the Church is doing...

Throwing a cup of water on a house fire would be something good as well but will still bring criticism for its ineffectiveness.

" brings out the Catholic haters in droves.

That s a funny thing to read having just returned from Mass.

"Why don’t you all take a deep breath...

Sitting back and taking deep breaths, issuing meaningless papers about "concerns" are what got us here.

"and go back to Westboro Baptist Church (which, btw, is not truly Baptist but uses the name only because anybody can call themselves Baptist)?

Not a fan of those whackjobs, sorry to disappoint.

“Gay marriage” is going to be the thing that will be used to silence and illegalize the Church in both Europe and the US. The Obamacare oppression doesn’t really need to get going. Now that all these countries have legalized gay marriage, becuase most people (Catholic, Protestant or agnostic) think that if something is legal under Caesar, it’s moral and legitimate, when Caesar comes after the Church on this issue, there will be no support.

Which is exactly why yet another article in some Italian newspaper "expressing concern" is a joke.

"And I think many people on FR, I hate to say it, would be cheering on the destruction of the Church."

Some might, along the lines of wanting the GOP destroyed to be replaced with a real conservative organization, but not me. I prefer that both go on and succeed and will criticize both for milk toast responses and leftward leanings.

"But we’re your only hope, so don’t be too hasty."

Yes, we are. (In case you are missing my points, I yelled at Joe Flacco today as well-but to say I'm a Pittsburgh fan because of it is silly. Its about wanting your team to win-which we did today!)

25 posted on 11/11/2012 4:53:43 PM PST by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: icwhatudo

I entirely agree, but the thing is that we can’t sit here and scream invectives at the Church as a whole. There are bad bishops and bad clergy. I have a good bishop, but lousy clergy (left over from the two previous bishops), so it’s very hard for us in my diocese. And it’s probably very hard for any faithful Catholic anywhere, and even harder for any faithful bishop.

My bishop was born in Cuba and was brought here when he was 16, after he had seen the glories of Fidel and Che. He became our bishop about 2 years ago. He hates the left and really fought hard to get us to oppose the Obama regime (we spent the night before the elections praying before the Blessed Sacrament) but his Irish-American clergy undermined him. Still, he shouldn’t be criticized for having tried and failed.

As for the Italians, they’re a little on the lily-livered side, so if they even “express concern,” this should be taken as a major statement. They’ll probably retract it tomorrow anyway, so don’t congratulate them on this.

My commments were mostly directed at the other poster. I don’t know why it is that any time the Vatican (meaning the “official international Catholic Church”) says anything positive and agressive, the fundamentalist Protestants here run forward to cut it down. So what have they done, pray tell?


26 posted on 11/11/2012 5:14:50 PM PST by livius
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To: heye2monn

Which doesn’t change the fact that Catholics prefer democrats and Obama.


27 posted on 11/11/2012 8:43:04 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: ansel12
"Which doesn’t change the fact that Catholics prefer democrats and Obama."

The Catholics don't, but the closet Protestants do.

28 posted on 11/11/2012 8:58:32 PM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law

That sounds hostile enough, but it doesn’t make any sense, and has no connection to anything, and it sure doesn’t contribute to conservatives defeating the democrat agenda.


29 posted on 11/11/2012 11:14:00 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: ansel12

Not the weekly attenders. They supported Romney.

The CINO’s don’t count. They should not be called Catholics, but of course, the liberals persist in doing so.


30 posted on 11/12/2012 3:27:32 PM PST by heye2monn (A)
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To: heye2monn

The Catholic vote means members of the Catholic church, as it should, and the Catholic vote is the same today as it has always been, democrat.

1972 to 2012 is the only period in history when republicans ever won their vote, except for 1956, and those handful of elections were always narrow margins, and for incumbents (and RR veep HW in 1988), except for 1980, the first and only time that the Catholics voted against an incumbent democrat.


31 posted on 11/12/2012 3:50:19 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: ansel12

Thanks for the history. But I don’t count people who never show up.


32 posted on 11/12/2012 3:56:21 PM PST by heye2monn (A)
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To: heye2monn

It is easy to see how the Catholic vote continues on it’s almost unwavering track for generation after generation, after generation, after generation, after generation, and will forever, it is the best kept political secret in America, a secret kept by militant “conservative” Catholics.


33 posted on 11/12/2012 4:23:53 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: ansel12
"The Catholic vote means members of the Catholic church, as it should..."

Your repetitious assertions aside, "Catholic" is not anyone who self identifies as Catholic, but is comprised of those who actually adhere to and live the faith. Those who defy the Bishops, ignore the teachings of the Church, reject the authority of the Magisterium and the Pope, who live a secular humanist life style simply cannot be called Catholics in any honest argument. Those conditions, by definition, make them more Protestant than Catholic.

What I can't figure out is what you are trying to accomplish by this constant assertion. It cannot be the the election of conservatives, since a stronger Church produces more conservative voters. Why don't you tell me what your ambitions are and maybe I can see where you are trying to take this. Maybe I can even help you.

Peace be with you.

34 posted on 11/12/2012 5:18:35 PM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law

Catholics are those who are members of the Catholic church.

I guess you can pretend to decide who is catholic, yet they remain as Catholics and members of that Christian denomination.


35 posted on 11/12/2012 5:47:13 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: ansel12
"I guess you can pretend to decide who is catholic, yet they remain as Catholics and members of that Christian denomination."

We are never going to agree on your contrived definition of Catholic, but so what? What are you trying to accomplish by your ad naseum argument?

36 posted on 11/12/2012 7:03:06 PM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law

Catholics are those who are members of the Catholic church.

Neither I nor the world of politics and voting data, or the Vatican cares about some guy on the internet creating a personal definition for who is counted as a catholic voter, which has no connection with the facts of church membership or the polling.


37 posted on 11/12/2012 7:25:41 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: ansel12
"Catholics are those who are members of the Catholic church."

And what about those who, through their actions and in actions, have excommunicated themselves. Are they still members? What about those who have become Baptists, Presbyterians, or Evangelicals, are they still members? And what about your objective, what are you trying to accomplish and for who's benefit?

Perhaps you should look beyond the world of politics and polling for things not of this world, but of the next and to the Church for those things you cannot or will not understand.

Peace be with you.

38 posted on 11/12/2012 8:35:05 PM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law
What about those who have become Baptists, Presbyterians, or Evangelicals, are they still members?

Gosh, the things that are in your head.

39 posted on 11/12/2012 9:10:09 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: NYer
Frankly the biggest fight the Church will have is among Catholics. There are so many who are willing to let homosexual marriage slide, because they've gotten so used to homosexuality by the culture in which we live, pushed by the media, which has its own bias in favor of the lifestyle. If someone didn't know better, they'd assume, by their presence on most TV shows, that homosexuals must make up 25% of the population, when the true figure is about a tenth of that. And young Catholics, especially, have been indoctrinated into the notion of 'civil rights' for homosexuals, which includes 'marriage'.

We need GOOD catechesis in a major way!

40 posted on 11/16/2012 5:14:32 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd
Did they just notice the problem now?

Not quite. They've been fighting it for years.

41 posted on 11/16/2012 5:19:48 PM PST by SuziQ
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