Skip to comments.'Another Jesus': Does it matter if Jesus is distorted @ hands of Mormon leaders? [Part III]
Posted on 11/13/2012 5:15:10 AM PST by Colofornian
I recall reading an author who made the case that if we view God in some off-kilter ways, we'll respond to Him in off-kilter ways. How we view God tends to set the tone for how we respond to Him; and Jesus said as much in one of His parables about investing talents.
In that parable, the one Jesus described as a "wicked and lazy servant" (Matthew 25:26) was the one who had the "wrong" worldview of His Master -- as a "hard man" (Matthew 25:24)...In other words, the servant's view of his master was that of a taskmaster...versus one who invests in stewards and expects a yield...an "ROI" -- a return of investment.
Well, just as our view of God overall effects our response to Him, the same is true of Jesus.
And not only that, but at some point embracing a counterfeit Jesus winds up where we no longer are interacting with the real genuine Jesus at all.
Hence, if you've ever wondered what are a number of the key distinctions between how Mormon leaders have portrayed the Mormon "Jesus" vs. the Jesus of the Bible, those distinctions are elaborated in the chart below:
Note: For documentation as to showing "proof" for these answers below, see the next (last) chart.
|Questions Distinguishing 'Mormon' Jesus from Jesus of Bible||Mormon 'Jesus'?||Based upon what Lds 'scripture'||Jesus of Bible?||Relevant Scriptures|
|1. Was Jesus self-existent from all eternity past?||Lds say NO -- unless Lds want to claim that men also are 'self-existent' from eternity past: "Man was also in the beginning with God." (D&C 93:29); yet they de-emphasize their own "scripture" -- Alma 13:9 in the Book of Mormon, where it reads how Jesus was "the only begotten without beginning of days"||D&C 93:29 vs. Alma 13:9. Note: In Joseph Smith's "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," he also elaborated upon a "council of gods" who were before Heavenly Father; and how Heavenly Father himself had a "father" and grandfather.||YES||John 8:58; John 1:1,18; Micah 5:2; Ex. 3:14|
|2. Is the title 'firstborn' as applied to Christ NOT linked to being the "elder brother" of you and me as pre-earth spirits, as Mormons interpret it, but rather to the Son of God being the pre-eminent heir and creator of all things?||
|D&C 93:21 -- introduced 1833...not found in Book of Mormon||NO||Col. 1:15-18; Eph. 6:12; Ps. 80:27|
|3. Can the 'Creator' be One who was 'created' (as a 'creature')?||YES||"And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg.269).||NO||Col. 1:16|
|4. Was Jesus as Son of God perfect from eternity past?||NO||"Even Christ himself was NOT perfect at first; he received not a fulness at first, but he received grace for grace, and he continued to receive more and more until he received a fulness." (Lds 6th "prophet" Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 1986, p. 68); * "...we have a correct idea of the character of the Son from the writings of the apostles, so far as they learned it. But while he was tabernacling in the flesh, he was more or less contaminated with fallen nature." (Brigham Young, JoD vol. 6, p. 95)||YES||2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:22|
|5. Was Jesus always 'divine' from eternity past?||NO||* "Jesus BECAME a God and reached His great state of understanding through consistent effort and continuous obedience to all the Gospel truths and universal laws." (p. 51 Milton Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages); * "Christ ATTAINED Godhood while yet in pre-existence..." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 323)||YES||John 17:5; Heb. 1:8|
|6. Was Jesus born "at" Bethlehem?||NO (Jerusalem)||Alma 7:10, Book of Mormon||YES||Micah 5:2 prophesy; Matt. 2:1; Luke 2:4,15; John 7:42|
|7. Was one of the purposes that Christ came to earth was so that He, Himself could become a "saved being?"||YES||"Christ is a saved being (Lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257); * "Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a SAVED BEING... (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234) Please also see... * McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation) and * McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." [cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72]||NO||1 John 4:14; John 4:42 (THE Savior, not the saved!)|
|8. Is Jesus but one 'savior'-'redeemer' among many?||YES and NO (Lds contradicts themselves)||LDS: NO: D&C 76:1, 1832; changed 1834 in D&C 103:9 & expanded to save the dead in 1841-1842 (D&C 124; D&C 128:1-3, 17-18...esp. v. 18); also Lds cite Obadiah 21 in the Old Testament as some sort of "justification" for applying "saviors" (plural) to themselves -- alleged "saviors" of mankind via baptisms for the dead!||NO||"THE Savior" in 1 John 4:14 and John 4:42, not saviors plural; also, in 1 Cor. 15:29 which Mormons have hijacked as their own -- the apostle Paul says "they" -- not "we" -- practiced baptism for the dead; also Obadiah 21 has NOTHING to do with baptizing the dead!|
|9. Were our sins 'atoned' for in the Garden of Gethesemane?||Lds say YES||Lds misinterpret blood sweat in garden of Gethsemane as Jesus was praying as having "effect of atonement" (see official Lds magazine Ensign, for example: June 2007, p. 15)||NO||Col. 1:20; also Jesus never said "pick up your 'garden' and follow me" but said, "pick up your 'CROSS' and follow me"|
|10. Was Jesus quite violent at the point of His death?||YES||3 Nephi 8:8-->3 Nephi 9:12, esp. 8:23; 9:12, Book of Mormon||NO||Jesus became sin (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:24) and became a curse (Gal. 3:13) on behalf of all, absorbing God's wrath on our behalf|
|11. Did Jesus really die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature?||NOTHING CONCLUSIVE: Lds "scriptures" are all over the map on this one: Mormonism teaches that (a) children have no sin nature & "cannot sin until they begin to become accountable" (D&C 29:47) -- even tho the Lds Pearl of Great Price teaches that children are conceived in sin (Moses 6:55), which "jives" more with Psalm 51:5 and 58:3; (b) yet the Book of Mormon teaches that men have a "carnal and fallen state" and that unless "they become new creatures...unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God." (Mosiah 27:26)...adding in v. 25 & elsewhere in the BoM that they "must be born again"; but apparently that was all past tense in the pre-incarnational years of Jesus Christ, because Joseph Smith taught how Jesus redeemed men from the fall, making men "innocent before God" (D&C 93:38)...so men are "innocent" before God? (Oh, sure, that explains today's world "nicely")||Article of Faith 2: "All men will be punished for own sin."||BOTH||1 John 1:7-9; Romans 5:8-9|
|12. Is Christ's powerful atoning blood diluded to 'anemic' levels?||YES||Even tho a few Mormon "scriptures" emphasize the cleansing power of Christ's blood (see, for example Alma 7:14; D&C 76:41; Moses 6:59), Mormonism roots this in law-keeping (D&C 76:52)||NO||1 John 1:7; Rev. 1:5; Rev. 5:9; Rev. 7:14; Heb. 13:12; Heb. 10:19; Eph. 1:7; Rom. 5:9|
|13. Is Jesus as unique as the Bible makes Him out to be?||NO||a: D&C 93:29; b: Moses 3:5; 6:36; Abraham 3:22-23, Pearl of Great Price; c: See references in #7; d: Misreading of Obadiah 21, Old Testament; e: Note references to "gods" as if true plural gods existed: D&C 76:58; D&C 121:28; 132:20,32,37; Moses 4:11; Lds also cite Spring 1844 King Follett sermon from Smith as if "revelational" -- how people have to "become gods themselves"; f: D&C 20:19 -- Only being to be worshiped is God, yet Mormons don't regard Jesus as same "being" as Heavenly Father||YES!||John 3:18: The "Only" Begotten Son from eternity, not one "spirit son" begotten in the pre-existence among millions!|
|14. Can Jesus be prayed to directly?||NO, all Lds prayer is to Heavenly Father, but can be directed through Christ||No Lds "scripture" to back this up; in fact, Lds "scripture" states the opposite! (see 3 Nephi 19:18, 24-26)||YES!||Acts 7:59|
[If you want greater elaboration to this chart, it is provided in a chart in Part IV that simply delves into greater documentation detail...If a summary is all that's needed, Parts I-III will suffice]
From the article: I recall reading an author who made the case that if we view God in some off-kilter ways, we'll respond to Him in off-kilter ways. How we view God tends to set the tone for how we respond to Him; and Jesus said as much in one of His parables about investing talents. In that parable, the one Jesus described as a "wicked and lazy servant" (Matthew 25:26) was the one who had the "wrong" worldview of His Master -- as a "hard man" (Matthew 25:24)...In other words, the servant's view of his master was that of a taskmaster...versus one who invests in stewards and expects a yield...an "ROI" -- a return of investment.
From the article (cont'd): Well, just as our view of God overall effects our response to Him, the same is true of Jesus. And not only that, but at some point embracing a counterfeit Jesus winds up where we no longer are interacting with the real genuine Jesus at all. Hence, if you've ever wondered what are a number of the key distinctions between how Mormon leaders have portrayed the Mormon "Jesus" vs. the Jesus of the Bible, those distinctions are elaborated in the chart below:
Better to concentrate on Mad Mo’ and Jihad.
This will really help us just like it did in the election. /s
Wonder how many people will realize this discussion is in the religion forum.
This will really help us just like it did in the election. /s
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Actually it will help and does help. Through these posts there are many who have come to see what Mormonism really teaches and that it isn’t Christian at all.
And at least 3 freepers have left Mormonism and come to a saving faith in Jesus because of our work on here which started long before Romney ran and will continue long after he has been forgotten.
This is about souls, not politics.