"Give Me This Mountain": Finding Hidden Meaning in Scripture [New Church, Open]

Spirit and Life Bible Study ^ | Wed Nov 21, 2012 | Rev Dr Johnathon Rose

[DaveMSmith]

Many people read the Bible literally and feel very strongly that there's nothing more to it than that, and yet Jesus Himself says the whole Old Testament is about Him. How could that be?!? We ponder this through a bizarre story in which Caleb pleads with Joshua to be given a mountain inhabited by enemy giants in fortified cities (Joshua 14).

Also see: Spirit And Life Bible Study on Facebook

[Godzilla]

It's on the poster who is defiling a Bible Study on a forum where posts cannot be edited or deleted.

Defiling a bible study?????? For starters your 'church' rejects half of that same bible as scripture. Then you add the writings of an occultist as "scripture". That my FRiend is defilement.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Oh! Guess you could say they found Paul appalling!

[DaveMSmith]

Our Church accepts all 66 books of the Bible as the Word. These Bible Studies teach from all 66 books.

[DaveMSmith]

Hardly.

[DaveMSmith]

About half our members are located in Africa.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Whoops, I was giving credence to what was said at #40. If this isn't true, then my comment was incorrect. Sorry for the mistake.

[Godzilla]

Our Church accepts all 66 books of the Bible as the Word. These Bible Studies teach from all 66 books.

Not according to the 'borg Dave.

"The five books of Moses, the book of Joshua, the book of Judges, the two books of Samuel, the two books of Kings, the Psalms of David, the Prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi; and in the New Testament the four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and the Revelation."
Borg rejected Paul's writings in that they " Emanuel Swedenborg, The Arcana Caelestia, vol. 12, trans. J. F. Potts, (New York: Swedenborg Foundation, 1978), para. 10325

you speak a falsehood according to your leader. Borg rejects Paul because his letters have "no conjunction with heaven by correspondences". (Swedenborg, Emanuel. The Spiritual Diary)

[DaveMSmith]

Swedenborg often quoted the Epistles in later works especially True Christianity.

Don't call me a liar.

[Godzilla]

Dave misrepresents his church's position regarding the bible - definitions. Borg choose only 33 out of the 66 books of the proven Word of GOD, the Bible, to be inspired; eliminating significant portions of the Old Testament, and everything past the 4 gospels of the New Testament except for Revelation. Borg rejects Paul and Peter's letters as well as chunks of the OT. Borg adds his own documents to be called scripture.

[Godzilla]

Swedenborg often quoted the Epistles in later works especially True Christianity.

You misrepresent Borg's attitude towards Paul as not being really inspired like his own writings were. As such he lowered them from his view of True scripture. Were he to accept them as scripture - it would gut his 'theology'.

[DaveMSmith]

Paul's letters were the foundation of the Doctrine of the Catholic Church. Not a thing wrong with them... they are good Church books, according to him. Swedenborg's Heavenly Doctrines is how the Word is understood in the spiritual sense- It's all about the Lord, us and His Churches. Also covers the exact nature of heaven and hell, etc.

Just because you seem fixed on a partial quote of a single number from a source you do not cite, you are making accusations of me and my beliefs.

[Godzilla]

I cited from Borg’s own writing Dave -

Emanuel Swedenborg, The Arcana Caelestia, vol. 12, trans. J. F. Potts, (New York: Swedenborg Foundation, 1978)

It cites the specific books of the bible Borg considered to be the Word.

To say otherwise is not intellectually honest.

[DaveMSmith]

Your quote drops the 1st sentence from the number. Where did you get it?

[Godzilla]

is the quote correct or not Dave

[Godzilla]

http://www.e-swedenborg.com/writings/static/d8086/10325.htm

[Godzilla]

The same list is repeated in Borg’s book “White Horse”

Which are the books of the Word. The books of the Word are all those which have the internal sense; but those which have not the internal sense are not the Word. The books of the Word in the Old Testament are, THE FIVE BOOKS OF MOSES; THE BOOK OF JOSHUA; THE BOOK OF JUDGES; THE TWO BOOKS OF SAMUEL; THE TWO BOOKS OF KINGS; THE PSALMS OF DAVID; THE PROPHETS ISAIAH, JEREMIAH, LAMENTATIONS, EZEKIEL, DANIEL, HOSEA, JOEL, AMOS, OBADIAH, JONAH, MICAH, NAHUM, HABAKKUK, ZEPHANIAH, HAGGAI, ZECHARIAH, MALACHI. In the New Testament, the four Evangelists, MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE, JOHN; and the APOCALYPSE. The rest have not the internal sense.

Again - 33 books deemed to be Word because they only have the “internal sense”

[DaveMSmith]

To me, and many others, Swedenborg's Writings have to be taken in a complete picture - 35 volumes over 27 years. We appreciate the fact that he revised and extended his teachings and we're still trying to understand it all.

To pull an incomplete quote from some site on the internet (I'm guessing some old CARM garbage) to malign me is childish. What's the link?

[Godzilla]

see 54 above Dave

BTW - that list of 33 is found in other sources, such as “Emanuel Swedenborg: His Life & Writings” By William White.

Point me to an official Borg site that presents an authorized list Dave - I’ve searched many to no avail. But then considering that Borg’s writings are considered scripture as well you will need to document that Borg suddenly discovered that the other 33 books now have the “Internal Sense”.

[Godzilla]

BTW Dave, CARM does not have that particular quote on it.

[DaveMSmith]

Do you understand what is meant by internal sense?