Skip to comments.Does Someone Have to be Pro-Life to be a True Christian?
Posted on 11/26/2012 1:17:49 PM PST by victim soul
I wasnt a Christian when I became pro-life. I was kind of anti-Christian. I was converted on the basis of science, reason, ethics, and human rights.
A year later, I was confirmed in the Catholic Church. I dont think thats a coincidence. But I also dont think one has to be a Christian to be pro-life.
I do, however, believe that one has to be pro-life to be a Christian.
Why? Well, because, duh.
I mean, is it really necessary to go into deep biblical study over this issue? Is it necessary to quote Exodus 21:22-23, or Psalm 139:13-15, or Matthew 18:10, or Jeremiah 1:5? Is there even really anything to argue about? I think the big argument about whether you can be a Christian and be pro-choice is B.S. I think that deep down, every Christian who knows the truth of abortion knows the answer to this.
Is it possible to have even a rudimentary understanding of Christianity and think abortion is okay? Can any of us really imagine Jesus Christ holding a womans hand and encouraging her to have an abortion?
I was astounded when, a few years after becoming pro-life, I discovered that there were denominations of Christianity that were not explicitly pro-life. I was shocked when I learned there were Christian denominations that were explicitly pro-choice.
I did a little research, and of the major branches of Christianity, the only ones I found with a strong pro-life platform were the Catholics, the Southern Baptists, the Eastern Orthodox, and the Evangelicals. There are thousands of Protestant denominations, so Im sure I missed some, but of the major ones, these are the only ones I have found. Please correct me if there are more
Id love to hear that there are more. That there are so few Christian denominations who have an official pro-life platform is troublesome. What is even more troublesome is that there are many Christians who, despite having submitted to the authority of a church that tells them abortion is a grave and mortal sin comparable to almost nothing else, believe in abortion rights and vote for them, against clear instruction from their church. Southern Baptists and Evangelicals who are pro-abortion are less common, and, ironically, they do not have the same belief that their church can separate them from full communion with Christ through excommunication, as Catholics do.
According to large denominations of Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Quakers, Church of Christ, and more, abortion is not incompatible with Christianity, which is the same as saying abortion is not incompatible with Christ.
Do you believe that? Do you believe that pro-choice Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, et al. actually believe that?
I dont. I dont buy it for a second. I dont for one second think, if Jesus Christ appeared before a congregation of pro-choice Christians and asked them their opinion on abortion, they would look Jesus in the eye and say abortion is okay. I dont believe for one second that a pro-choice Christian would stand in a clinic with Jesus Christ and watch a woman have an abortion.
Maybe Im wrong. Maybe they have really convinced themselves that abortion is kindness to women, and somehow not cruelty to and the killing of an innocent, dependent human being.
And hey, maybe my understanding of Christianity is completely bass-ackwards. Maybe Christianity is not really about loving and helping those in need, protecting the innocent, telling the truth, and bravely defending justice and righteousness. Maybe Christianity is about intentionally and specifically ending an innocent human life if it is inconvenient or difficult, and encouraging women to solve their problems with violence against their children. Maybe suffer the little children to come unto Me is just pretty words, or just a poetic way of telling people to make sure the children they allow to live outside the womb go to Sunday school.
Jesus wanted Christians to be kind. No one argues with that. But kind to whom, exactly? And what does kind mean? Just going around being nice to everyone is lovely if youre a saffron-robed Tibetan monk, or a spaced-out hippie. But if youre the slightest bit aware, and if you have any concept of justice, you must admit that, like David Mamet said, [k]indness to the wicked is cruelty to the righteous. We have to get over this idea that encouraging terrible behavior is ever kind.
So, if we apply this truth Kindness to the wicked is cruelty to the righteous to abortion, who is the wicked, the mother or the child? The mother, obviously. We dont mean that she utterly sinful and repulsive, but it is she who created this situation in almost every case, and it is never the innocent child. Also, if we choose to do kindness to her instead of the child, someone will die. If we choose to do kindness to the child, no one will die.
Then there is this: choosing to do kindness to the mother by encouraging or allowing her to abort her child is not kindness. It is telling her that doing something despicable and wrong is okay and will help her. That is a lie. Lying is wrong, kids.
Its fun to pretend Jesus was a misty-eyed hippie. Except he wasnt. The culture we live in tells us Jesus was okay with, for example, adultery, because he saved a woman from being stoned to death for committing it. They leave out the part where told her to sin no more, because nowadays the only sin is believing in sin. Our culture too often confuses mercy with leniency. They are not the same thing.
I have no doubt that Jesus was kind, but I dont think he was nice not in the way we mean it today. He told us to love everyone. Loving everyone does not mean smiling and shrugging at everyones sin. I dont expect mine to be smiled and shrugged at. If I wanted that, I would be a Unitarian Universalist. Telling people killing their babies is okay is not loving. Its not true. Its not righteous. Its not Christian.
Saying publicly that abortion is not Christian is judgmental and mean, or so I have been told repeatedly. Well, Im judgmental and mean, I guess.
Look, I know I am a sinner. I sin all the time. Im horrible and lowly. I fail constantly. But I am a Christian, and I rely on the mercy of Christ to save me. What I dont do is pretend my sins are not sins. I have done it before we all have, probably and I had to repent. You cant go around indignantly declaring that grave, life-destroying sins are fine with Jesus because it makes you more modern and hip and with it, or because it sounds nice, or because hell yeah womens rights.
Quick answer: Yes.
Perhaps just re-prhase the question to make it clearer.
Can I be a Christian and believe murder is acceptable?
“Look, I know I am a sinner. I sin all the time. Im horrible and lowly. I fail constantly. But I am a Christian, and I rely on the mercy of Christ to save me. What I dont do is pretend my sins are not sins.”
Perfect synopsis of the biggest dichotomy in Christian living today (and always): how to be in the world but not of it. Closely related is how to explain that yes, I CAN love the sinner and hate the sin.
Yes, you can be pro-life without being a Christian. Regarding abortion as murder a reasonable position, after all, especially with what we know now about contraception, gestation, etc.
But a Christian cannot be pro-murder so therefore you must be pro-life to be a Christian.
Going further with the question, does someone have to be anti-ObamaCare to be a Christian?
Leading to, does someone have to be Catholic, a large supporter of ObamaCare, to be a Christian?
I wouldn’t want the job of judging the souls of my fellow men even if was offered to me.
There is only one unforgivable sin and that (as I understand it) is to deny that the the Holy Spirit has the power to save anyone he chooses. I’m rooting for everyone.
What do you mean “true Christian”?
When I say Christian I mean born again Christian, now a member of the Body of Christ.
Born again Christians are only Saved they are not perfect, or even close to perfection.
I cannot see how anyone who claims to be born again can be anything but pro-life, however I am sure there are people who are both born again and will accept abortion given the circumstances.
he = He.
I don’t know, but it’s hard to imagine Jesus with a coat hanger or patting a doctor (or the pregnant woman) on the back as scissors are pierced into the base of an unborn baby’s skull and saying, “That’s all right. You go right ahead. You’ve got parties to go to. You’ve got promotions at work to claw your way up.”
“Leading to, does someone have to be Catholic, a large supporter of ObamaCare, to be a Christian?”
Can one support the Morning After Pill and still be a Christian?
At the same time unbelievers may attend Catholic services ~ but participation is limited.
So, Protestants, and Catholics go to church and are surrounded by ~ Lo and Behold ~ both those who believe and those who do not yet believe.
When you find yourself in a church where NONE BELIEVE, unless you are some kind of thick skinned missionary who never gives up, there are other options ~
Christ did not set it down as a requirement for salvation. Given that He died for ALL sins of the sinner, it would seem this one would be covered like any other.
As Christians we are supposed to turn away from sin. This implies we know right from wrong. Is abortion wrong? If the answer is yes then we should not support it.
The fact that this question needs to be asked answers the question of what a “true Christian” is. Think about it..
then I assume you are also anti-death penalty
This issue was what made my faith real. God said that we
should choose life. Most importantly innocent life. I do
not know how anyone can call themself a christian or vote
for the party that frames the platform around this idea.
It’s one thing if you engage in sin - then come before the Lord and seek forgiveness - but if one continues to sin (supporting abortion) despite what should be the conviction of the Holy Spirit - then perhaps one is not really a Christian after all.
Saying the “sinner’s prayer” or calling oneself a Christian doesn’t make it so - “by their fruits you will know them” - perhaps they have decieved themselves.
True - only God can know the heart - but again: “by their fruits you will know them”.
...& who could be more innocent??
Sure, all sorts of foul people and misinformed people can be Christians.
Its not a bad litmus test. If a denomination is explicitly pro-choice you can assume that Christ has departed the building.
Its time to call the realtors.
Any sin that is ongoing and the sinner unrepentant is not covered. To be pro choice means that one has given a thumbs up to ongoing sin. That’s quite different from having an abortion at 17 and asking God for forgiveness sometime later knowing it was wrong.
What is the Bible verse that says, if you keep sinning you will not be forgiven and in the context of this thread Saved.
Fruits refer to false teachings and false prophets.
**Does Someone Have to be Pro-Life to be a True Christian?**
That’s why dimocrats are not true Christians. They support both abotion and euthanasia in their party platform.
Whoa, when did the rules change on what a Christian is? Last I knew True Christians(tm) are those saved through God’s mercy.
Now you guys want to add other stuff? God’s mercy isn’t enough anymore?
Thank you for reminding me why I quit organized religion.
No Catholic can support murder of any kind — Obamacare included.
Don’t you mean CINOs?
Yeah, cause that Jesus fella never hung around sinners.
I have to say, until recently I wouldn't have thought it necessary to have an official pro-life platform.
You would think it so self-evident as to not require comment.
What do you mean that Christ did not set it down.
He adhered to the Ten Commandments. What don’t you understand about “Thou shalt not kill.”????????
“Fruits refer to false teachings....”
Yes - and abortion is a (false) “teaching” - it is also a lie from the gates of hell.
In any church you’ll find people who have had abortions and people who have paid to have them done.
Its the nature of the business. People are not perfect. People make mistakes, and the church is where these people gather to worship the God who made them and who has said he will forgive them.
Abortion is not the unforgiveable sin. A woman who has had an abortion knows very well what she has done and doesn’t need to be beat up on. God can heal the damage done to her spirit and if she’s in church she is in the right place.
Thats one issue.
When a church no longer can discern right from wrong, the spirit has departed. Jesus spent all of his time with sinners. He loves us and even likes us. He didn’t preach sin. Separate issue.
The Pharisees and Sadducees thought they had right and wrong all figured out too.
I'm also guessing people don't really believe Paul when he says nothing can take you out of god's hands and that instead of saying "now is there no condemnation" Paul really meant to write "now is there mostly no condemnation."
For me, in these discussions I have this image in my mind of an abortion-supporting murderer of little babies standing before God and saying; “But the Supreme Court said. . . .”
See how far THAT will get them.
Uh... the Catholic Hierarchy supported this socialized medicine scheme.
What is that verse?
and what do you do? Live in a cave, burn incense, hum and look for “inner peace” as your path to heaven? Christianity, by title, means follower of Christ. If you are not, you are not a Christian whether you are a member of “organized religion” (your term) or not.
We've had approx. 20 years of Republican presidents and the most conservative supreme court since approx. 1945 and R v. W still stands.
Until the GOP drops the abortion issue as a litmus test of conservatism, the MSM and the democrats will continue to use it as a wedge to divide and conquer the party.
Here's a thought, how many seated democrats actually DO support pro-life but have never had to answer the question since the MSM would never attempt to put their candidicies in jeopardy over that issue?
The answer of course is none............
Ultimately God is the only one who can make this clear. None of us will ever be sinless as long as we are human. I do believe my sins are covered. I do not think that believing in Jesus is a get out of jail free card, where we can merrily sin up a storm (knowingly, willingly and unrepentently) and still receive salvation.
I choose to do the best I can, each day that I can. The Lord will sort out the rest.
“Any sin that is ongoing and the sinner unrepentant is not covered.”
Then there is no hope for you friend. If Christ’s blood and death didn’t cover your sins - all of them - even the ones you don’t currently recognize as sin, then you are headed to hell.
Of course, His death and shed blood did cover all sins, past, present and future.
“What do you mean that Christ did not set it down. He adhered to the Ten Commandments. What dont you understand about Thou shalt not kill.????????”
Keeping the 10 Commandments is not the basis of salvation. It is the death, shed blood and resurrection of Christ. If that wasn’t effective for every single sin, you are screwed.
"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
In addition to their belief in the Bible alone ("sola Scriptura"), most Protestants believe that all one has to do is accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior in order to be justified by God (justification is the process by which man, moved by grace, turns toward God and away from sin, and accepts Gods forgiveness and righteousness). Thus, most Protestants believe that one is justified and saved by His faith in Christ alone (called "sola Fide" or Faith alone). But if this is true, then why does James say that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone?
James says this because we are justified, and ultimately saved, through both our faith and works, and not just faith alone. In fact, the only place in the Bible where the phrase "faith alone" appears is in James 2:24 where it says we are justified by works and NOT by faith alone. So the Bible never teaches anywhere that we are justified, saved, or anything else, by faith alone. While on its face the Catholic position seems obvious, the theology of faith and works in the matter of salvation is actually quite complicated, and has been one of the main sources of division between Catholicism and Protestantism. Hence, a couple of points should be made to address the controversy and clarify Catholic teaching.
First, Catholics ultimately believe that we are saved, not by faith or works, but by Jesus Christ and Him alone. Jesus Christ's death and Resurrection is the sole source of our justification (being in a right relationship with God) and salvation (sharing in God's divine life). But as a result of Christ's death and resurrection, we are now able to receive God's grace. Grace is God's own divine life which He infuses into our souls. It is what Adam initially lost for us, and Christ won back for us. This grace initially causes us to seek God and to believe in Him (the "faith" part). Non-Catholics generally stop here.
But God desires us to respond to His grace by putting our faith into action (the "works" part). This is why Jesus always taught about our salvation in the context of what we actually did during our earthly lives, and not how much faith we had ("whatever you did to the least of my brothers, you did to Me." Matthew 25:40,45). When Jesus teaches about His second coming where He will separate the sheep from the goats, He bases salvation and damnation upon what we actually did ("works"), whether righteous or evil. Matthew 25:31-46. In James 2:14-26, James is similarly instructing us to put our faith into action by performing good works, and not just giving an intellectual assent of faith. James says such "faith apart from works is dead." James 2:17,26.
So we must do more than accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. Even the demons believe Jesus is Savior, and yet "they tremble." James 2:19. We must also do good works. Faith is the beginning of a process that leads us toward justification, but faith alone never obtains the grace of justification. Faith and works acting together achieve our justification. Saint Paul says it best when he writes that we need "faith working in love." Galatians 5:6. We are not justified and saved by faith alone.
Secondly, it is important to distinguish between the "works" James taught about in James 2:24 and the "works of the law" Saint Paul taught about in Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; and Eph. 2:8-9. Protestants generally confuse James' "good works" from Paul's "works of the law" when they attempt to prove that "works" are irrelevant to justification and salvation. The "works of the law" Paul taught about in Ephesians 2:8-9 and elsewhere referred to the Mosaic law and their legal system that made God obligated to reward them for their works. They would thus boast about their works by attributing their works to themselves. Cf. Rom. 4:2; Eph. 2:9. Saint Paul taught that, with the coming of Christ, the Mosaic (moral, legal, and ceremonial) law which made God a debtor to us no longer justified a person. Instead, Paul taught that we are now justified and saved by grace (not legal obligation) through faith (not works of law). Eph. 2:5,8. Hence, we no longer boast by attributing our works to ourselves. We attribute them to God who gives everything to us freely by His grace.
Therefore, we are no longer required to fulfill the works of law, but to fulfill the law of Christ Gal. 6:2. This is why Paul writes that the doers of the law (of Christ) will be justified. Rom. 2:13. Of course, the works of the law Paul wrote about in Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10 and Eph. 2:8-9 have nothing to do with the good works James is teaching in James 2:24 or the law Paul is teaching about in Rom. 2:13 (because they are part of the same Word of God which can never contradict itself).
In summary, based on the Scriptures, the Church has taught for 2,000 years that we are justified and saved by the grace and mercy of Christ through both faith and works, and not faith alone. We are no longer in a legal system of debt where God owes us (creditor/debtor). We are now in a system of grace where God rewards our works when done with faith in Christ (Father/child). This also means that we must continue to exercise our faith and works to the end of our lives in order to be saved. This is why Jesus told us to "endure to the end" to be saved. Matthew 10:22; 24:13; Mark 13:13. This is also why Saint Paul warned us that we could even lose our salvation if we did not persevere. cf. Romans 11:20-23; 1 Corinthians 9:27. This Catholic belief contradicts the novel Protestant notion of "once saved, always saved."
James 2: 17-26 ...A stern warning from Saint James
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Indeed someone might say, You have faith and I have works. Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness, and he was called the friend of God.
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.