Posted on 11/28/2012 4:08:03 AM PST by rhema
Yes, that would the key component in “Similar Values”.
I don’t understand being attracted to people like someone you have an "unresolved conflict" with. Grasp the beauty and meaning of the phrase, “you’re dead to me”, and move on. I don't understand not recognizing the same things in someone you meet that were present in others you've known, either.
I know several couples who divorced and who have had a miserable life ever since and so has their former spouse. Both of them will tell you they don't know why they ever broke up but at the time, someone convinced them that they should shed their partner and look out for themselves.
True, none of these folks were physically abused, but it seems to me that there are a lot of people who believe they're supposed get divorced because "everyone" gets a divorce from their first spouse. It's a go along to get along society and if most people have herpes, a lot of people won't want to feel left out and will line up to get herpes.
Oh, there's no 'h' in Rasputin by the by, but everyone makes that mistake and it's funny when they do because it's revealing in it's own little way.
LOL... I did know that there is no “H” in Rasputin as I have researched him extensively. He and I have certain abilities in common and I researched him to learn from his mistakes rather than having to learn from my own school of hard knocks by repeating them.
Remember the scripture that states, “If your brother has anything against you, go and resolve it before you come and worship.” Any unresolved conflict becomes an anchor to our soul. The we must always strive to remove any conflicts to Love that exist within us. This is why Jesus said the second most important commandment is “Love thy neighbor as thyself. And, why in 1John 4 it mentions that if you say that you love God and do not love your neighbor, then you are a liar!
Life is about cleansing our soul so it can grow. Thus, our Father guides us into situations to give us the opportunity to cleanse our unresolved issues. Problem is, most of the time they become reinforcement events rather than resolution events.
This is the reason that “love is blind.” The attraction is strong and as soon as we begin to experience intimacy, all of a sudden we are comfortable enough to bring up our own unresolved issue and project it onto them as a surrogate. We then hate them and have no idea why!
In this perfect dance, our partner is doing the same with us for a complimentary reason.
I’ve been doing this work for many years. I can generally find the perceptual programming event in their life that created the trauma in a few minutes without the person ever saying one word. Don’t want to know anything about them as it would only interfere with my work. I do in a few minutes in one session what most psychologists take years to do.
Most forget that contraception is a recent historical development. Without it, a man and woman rather fond of each other tend to produce children, and society at large have an interest in keeping those parents together for optimal raising of their offspring and to prevent them otherwise becoming a burden on society, along with ensuring there is sufficient stable procreation for continuation of the society. Hence the institution of marriage.
Without that likely outcome from intra-gender fondness, and with society still holding the institution in high regard for bonding and protecting that fondness with special societal recognition and privileges, the focus drifts from the reproduction (now very optional) to the fondness that led to it ... and with reproduction rendered optional (even discouraged), romantic attraction with utterly no possibility of reproduction (not to be confused with choice or malfunction) demands the same societal recognition and privileges.
Without reproduction, the institution of marriage would never have arisen.
Without reproduction, the institution of marriage becomes a quaint anachronism abused and misapplied for its lingering societal benefit.
Totally agree with you, except that the person who is wronged must also forgive. That can be done directly with the Holy Spirit if one is open to Divine Grace. Otherwise.... the situation is somehow replicated.
“Most forget that contraception is a recent historical development. Without it, a man and woman rather fond of each other tend to produce children, and society at large have an interest in keeping those parents together for optimal raising of their offspring and to prevent them otherwise becoming a burden on society, along with ensuring there is sufficient stable procreation for continuation of the society. Hence the institution of marriage.
“Without that likely outcome from intra-gender fondness, and with society still holding the institution in high regard for bonding and protecting that fondness with special societal recognition and privileges, the focus drifts from the reproduction (now very optional) to the fondness that led to it ... and with reproduction rendered optional (even discouraged), romantic attraction with utterly no possibility of reproduction (not to be confused with choice or malfunction) demands the same societal recognition and privileges.
“Without reproduction, the institution of marriage would never have arisen.
Without reproduction, the institution of marriage becomes a quaint anachronism abused and misapplied for its lingering societal benefit.”
And that about sums it up.
This definition, from the author (Douglas Baker), feels good in the mouth, but it could apply as well to homosexual couples as to heterosexual couples.
A definition of marriage not based on children's need for an institution that unites them with their natural father and natural mother, will devolve into something based on couple-satisfaction. As such, there's no reason for it not to include L's, G's, B's, T's --the whole alphabet soup.
And that's a big reason why marriage has broken down: contraceptives have successfully sabotaged the one aspect of man-woman sex that makes it transcend the mutual satisfaction of two adults. Thanks to hormones, spaying, and the suction curette, most man-woman marriages are gay anyway, in the way that really counts.
We disagree. I think the greater good is served if people can get out of a bad marriage. To me, a bad marriage is far worse than a rising divorce rate.
It’s not simply a rising divorce rate that is the consequence. The real consequence is the abolition of marriage itself. Marriage is kind of a contract, and if it can be simply dissolved on a whim without consequence, then it’s not really a contract at all. Therefore, what we are calling “marriage” doesn’t even meet the definition anymore.
In order to allow a few people out of “bad marriages”, we must destroy marriage for everyone else, which is what we have done.
That's absolutely untrue even if you modify that to being "reliable contraceptives".
Devices nearly identical to a modern IUD, sponges soaked with lemon juice or other spermicidals, along with other non-barrier related spermicides were well known in ancient Egypt. Chinese records show pretty much the same sorts of things along with what seem to have been very effective powders to mix with tea that altered the chemistry of the womb for a few days at a time, as being well known and widely available as far back as four thousand years ago.
The only thing new is pharmaceutical companies making tons of money on abortaficient contraceptives rather than the individual or local pharmacist mixing up contraceptives and abortificiants.
Idea that marriage was related to an absence of contraceptives is either from someone who hasn't done their homework or just more propaganda that the ignorant will think makes sense and swallow along with their daily dose of other absurd propaganda.
What are you talking about? It is only easy to get out of a marriage if both parties agree and there are no contentious situations. If both want out, it should be easy. People do not get married with the intent of bailing except for Kardashian types.
Otherwise both parties are put through an economic and emotional wringer. Both parties are turned upside down by crooked lawyers who shake them until they feel there is no more cash that can be extracted.
Too many women used to be totally powerless to get out of a marriage, even ones that lived in total hell.
I don’t think marriage will ever disappear for those who want it and
those who don’t want it should not have to get married because government wants it.
“What are you talking about? It is only easy to get out of a marriage if both parties agree and there are no contentious situations.”
No, that is not true. Even if there are contentious situations, it’s still ridiculously easy to get the divorce itself, you’ll just have to squabble in court over the assets and the kids. The divorce itself, in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, can be obtained by the whim of either party, without the consent of the other, with no cause provided whatsoever. This is called “no fault divorce”, and it is the law of the land.
“If both want out, it should be easy.”
Why should it be easy? They (supposedly) entered into a permanent contract, which had no termination clause save for the death of one party or the other. If we say that such a contract can be invalidated without cause, then it was never a contract at all, hence marriage is simply a sham. That’s where we are at today.
“Otherwise both parties are put through an economic and emotional wringer. Both parties are turned upside down by crooked lawyers who shake them until they feel there is no more cash that can be extracted.”
One could just as easily look at these as good deterrents to people divorcing lightly, rather than unnecessary torment inevitably inflicted on the parties. If they know going in to a marriage that those would be the consequences of pursuing a divorce, then many people might well choose alternatives to divorce, or simply not marry if they don’t want to take such a risk. As it stands today, many people, go into marriage practically planning to get divorced eventually, since there isn’t any downside for at least one of the parties.
“Too many women used to be totally powerless to get out of a marriage, even ones that lived in total hell.”
Well, I’m sorry, but life isn’t fair. If you choose to enter a lifetime contract, you should not expect to be able to easily terminate it. Also, I wonder why you ignore that men were equally powerless to get out of a marriage in most situations?
I’d also like to point out that, even when divorce was rare, there were no laws forcing married couples to cohabitate. If the marriage was a bad one, they could still part ways, they simply couldn’t get remarried to someone else. Which, I think, was probably best for everyone involved, since they already demonstrated that they couldn’t make a marriage work.
“I don’t think marriage will ever disappear for those who want it and
those who don’t want it should not have to get married because government wants it.”
It already has disappeared for all of us, whether we want it or not. Marriage is not a temporary partnership agreement, that can be dissolved with no cause or consequence. What we have today is not really marriage, we’re just calling it that because nobody wants to admit that we’ve legally done away with marriage.
Also, the government doesn’t, and never has to my knowledge, forced anyone to get married. Any marriage that is entered into by compulsion is by definition an invalid marriage, and a perfect candidate for a legitimate divorce. All we are talking about is the government performing its duty of enforcing valid contracts entered into by private parties.
I disagree on so many counts and will address them later.
However, if you think it should be made more difficult to leave a marriage where a party is being physically abused, I think you are putting your view of morality over a human being’s right to safety, and that seems to me to be as anti-freedom as can possibly be.
“However, if you think it should be made more difficult to leave a marriage where a party is being physically abused...”
No, I wouldn’t state my position to be quite that. I’m opposed to using people wanting to get out of “bad marriages” as an excuse for allowing anyone to get divorced, for any reason at all, which is the situation we have today. A “bad marriage” is a completely ethereal concept, since it’s entirely subjective, so any marriage can be defined as a “bad” one.
There needs to be a clearly defined set of situations in which the state will grant a divorce, not simply allowing them for any reason. That would not invalidate all marriages, like the current state of affairs does, because the marriage contracts would remain valid and enforceable so long as both parties avoid the actions which would allow divorce to be pursued.
Now, in the case of physical abuse, I do think that is a just cause to sue for a civil divorce. I don’t think that it is a valid cause for ecclesiastical invalidation of marriage, but that’s an entirely separate matter, and I don’t want to get too far off topic.
What is gained by keeping people in a marriage they don’t want to be in?
Who is government, church, or other human beings, that gives them the right to tell people what to do if no law is being broken?
“What is gained by keeping people in a marriage they don’t want to be in?”
When contracts are lawfully enforced, then the public has a reasonable expectation that they can enter into such a contract, and it will be lawfully enforced in the future as well. When they are unlawfully dissolved, then confidence in contracts is eroded, and when this happens on such a scale as we have seen with marriage, it goes way beyond erosion of confidence. Marriage is a joke, nobody has any expectation that it will ever be enforceable, so there is no confidence at all left to erode anymore.
Now, if you don’t understand why contacts, proper enforcement, and public confidence in them are vitally important for society, then that’s a whole different topic. Suffice to say that they are one of the fundamental pillars of our legal system, just as marriage is a fundamental pillar of our society. We’ve been hacking away at the bases of both of those pillars by allowing divorce-on-demand.
“Who is government, church, or other human beings, that gives them the right to tell people what to do if no law is being broken?”
Well, let’s focus on just the governments, since I already said I don’t want to get sidetracked here with ecclesiastical matters. The governments have every right to enforce contracts, including marriages. In fact, it is their duty to enforce contracts, so it’s not optional for them. They must apply the contract law, and they are supposed to apply it equally to all.
If governments don’t enforce contracts, then we lose our civil society in its entirety, because the only recourse to enforce agreements between parties is private justice and vigilantism. So, you are on a very dangerous course when you dismiss the importance of that government duty.
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