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The Cult has started a new ad campaign in New York [Where the Mormon tithe & temple fits in]
ExMormonforums.com ^ | Nov. 27, 2012 | Infymus

Posted on 11/28/2012 6:00:38 PM PST by Colofornian

http://www.lds.org/church/news/mormonor ... c?lang=eng

How about being straight up and saying that Mormons put on costumes and chant rituals in secret buildings that only 10% of gross earnings paid as "tithes" allow entrance?

Mormonism wants people to think they are normal that they are just Christians like everyone else. Each year they get rid of more and more of their embarrassing doctrines - or doctrines that aren't politically correct anymore. Apologist attack dogs fight any critics on technicalities.

Mormonism has one thing that works for them - and that is the funneling of cash from members to the Cult coffers. This is done through mandatory tithe. And in order to make this tithe work - and make the member believe in the Cult enough to pay - they have to have the secret temple ceremonies. You have to put a ton of make believe in there.

Stephen R. Donaldson is one of my favorite authors. In one of his series of books he explained how a great and noble group of leaders were slowly corrupted through the centuries by simple infiltration of ideas. The ideas changed the group slowly until they went from helping people to human sacrifices. The new leaders of the group knew what was going on - but they surrounded themselves with those who only had faith - not knowledge. Those who had faith were much stronger because they were driven by the new cult. Those who held faith were much easier to control.

Pondering the story Donaldson had written I saw the same manifested in the Cult of Mormonism. If you have members who are so convinced you are the one and only true Cult, they will not hesitate to open their pocketbooks and hand over everything. Mormonism needs this kind of special, secret, garment wearing, new name, pay lay ale - in order to keep the tithes flowing. If the cat is out of the bag, the tithing will stop.

So the reality is there is a certain point where Mormonism must stop moving towards Christianity - it has to because money is ultimately the top priority of the Cult. Money - Power - Control.

Look at all the recovery boards right now - even the NOM boards. What is the #1 topic right now because of upcoming December? Tithing. Tithing. Tithing. Oh and don't forget tithing. Sign up for tithing settlement. And don't forget to sign up for tithing settlement.

“All of our messaging is focused on helping people understand that Mormons are Christian,”

Naw, Mormonism isn't a Christian church. It's a secretive Cult with very cultish practices and it has to stay that way - or go broke.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Current Events; Evangelical Christian; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: cult; exmormon; inman; lds; mormonism
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From the article: How about being straight up and saying that Mormons put on costumes and chant rituals in secret buildings that only 10% of gross earnings paid as "tithes" allow entrance? Mormonism wants people to think they are normal that they are just Christians like everyone else. Each year they get rid of more and more of their embarrassing doctrines - or doctrines that aren't politically correct anymore. Apologist attack dogs fight any critics on technicalities. Mormonism has one thing that works for them - and that is the funneling of cash from members to the Cult coffers. This is done through mandatory tithe. And in order to make this tithe work - and make the member believe in the Cult enough to pay - they have to have the secret temple ceremonies. You have to put a ton of make believe in there...If you have members who are so convinced you are the one and only true Cult, they will not hesitate to open their pocketbooks and hand over everything. Mormonism needs this kind of special, secret, garment wearing, new name, pay lay ale - in order to keep the tithes flowing. If the cat is out of the bag, the tithing will stop. So the reality is there is a certain point where Mormonism must stop moving towards Christianity - it has to because money is ultimately the top priority of the Cult. Money - Power - Control. Look at all the recovery boards right now - even the NOM boards. What is the #1 topic right now because of upcoming December? Tithing. Tithing. Tithing. Oh and don't forget tithing. Sign up for tithing settlement. And don't forget to sign up for tithing settlement....Naw, Mormonism isn't a Christian church. It's a secretive Cult with very cultish practices and it has to stay that way - or go broke.

OK, I know some Christians support tithing, too. The issue for Mormonism isn't only tithing.

It's what happens if you don't tithe in the Mormon church.

What's at stake?
1. No upward movement toward any callings in the church;
2. No tithing, no temple recommend...that includes the 9.99% givers.
3. No temple recommend, good luck trying to see your daughter married in that temple!
4. No temple recommend, no "celestial" (upper division) haven in heaven for you.
5. No "celestial" kingdom for you = no "forever family"...you know, the Mormon bumper sticker that says "families are forever." (Well, that applies ONLY to temple Mormons who are found worthy and in good standing with the church)
6. No forever family, no forever marriage...or eternal plural marriages.
7. No temple recommend also means no celestial kingdom, which also then disqualifies you from: (a) becoming a full-grown god yourself and ruling your own planet; and (b) Living in the presence of Heavenly Father.

Only in Mormonism are non-tithers forever excluded from the presence of Heavenly Father -- all because they paid 9% (or less) instead of 10%!

The above is quite a bit of legalistic to leverage over the head of its members!

1 posted on 11/28/2012 6:00:49 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Who the hell cares.


2 posted on 11/28/2012 6:03:18 PM PST by Andrei Bulba (No Obama, no way!)
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To: Andrei Bulba

There has to be some other web page where this continual screed of hate can be published.


3 posted on 11/28/2012 6:05:37 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: Colofornian

Riddle me this batman: If you don’t believe in Mormonism, why would you bother to discuss that Mormons who don’t tithe enough get barred from Heaven, or whatever? You don’t actually believe such a thing happens. I don’t believe it, because I’m not a Mormon. Who is supposed to care about this?


4 posted on 11/28/2012 6:07:02 PM PST by Andrei Bulba (No Obama, no way!)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Did you hear? Jews require circumcision. Catholics devour the body and blood of Christ. Auntie Em Auntie Em!

I’ll tell you who cares. Me. Because I believe these Mormon haters delivered the country over to communist hell in the last election.


5 posted on 11/28/2012 6:10:14 PM PST by Andrei Bulba (No Obama, no way!)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

i may be wrong, but i believe colofornian once wrote that he is an ex-mormon, and cannot give up in his efforts to convert others to his disbelief.


6 posted on 11/28/2012 6:12:10 PM PST by IWONDR
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

What hate? From you?


7 posted on 11/28/2012 6:13:00 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

What hate? From you?


8 posted on 11/28/2012 6:13:24 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: IWONDR

He’s also discovered (shock) that organized religions are always after money. Who knew.


9 posted on 11/28/2012 6:13:52 PM PST by Andrei Bulba (No Obama, no way!)
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To: Colofornian

I’m not a mormon, and have been to Hill Cumorah a few times The pageant is rather entertaining, even if reality is on another planet. Overall, if given a choice I would much rather have mormons for neighbors than muslims.


10 posted on 11/28/2012 6:14:19 PM PST by Ouderkirk (Democrats...the party of Slavery, Segregation, Sodomy, and Sedition)
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To: Andrei Bulba

Apparently you, this is the religion forum and you took time to comment


11 posted on 11/28/2012 6:14:52 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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Lord, please make it end.


12 posted on 11/28/2012 6:15:54 PM PST by kanawa
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To: Andrei Bulba; All
If you don’t believe in Mormonism, why would you bother to discuss that Mormons who don’t tithe enough get barred from Heaven, or whatever? You don’t actually believe such a thing happens. I don’t believe it, because I’m not a Mormon.

Lds have 55,000 full-time missionaries out there going door to door.

This is about to expand in 2013 because the Lds church has just lowered its age requirements for missionaries.

With a likely 60,000+ missionaries going out in 2013...spending 6 days a week...up to 12 hrs a day out there...people are likely to encounter either such a missionary...or a Mormon co-worker, neighbor or relative.

It's important to be well-versed enough to be conversant on at least a few key central points of Mormonism to have more meaningful dialogues with Lds.

13 posted on 11/28/2012 6:16:22 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Andrei Bulba

And there it is.....rather than blame the candidate you blame people on a religion forum.


14 posted on 11/28/2012 6:17:06 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Colofornian

Not this crap again.


15 posted on 11/28/2012 6:18:35 PM PST by dixjea
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To: IWONDR; Eric in the Ozarks; All
i may be wrong, but i believe colofornian once wrote that he is an ex-mormon, and cannot give up in his efforts to convert others to his disbelief

Of course, you're wrong, Iwondr...(what else is new?)

I've never said I'm "ex-Mormon"...I have never been Lds...

I have said that I am a direct descendent of one of the earlier Lds settlers of the Mormon West

16 posted on 11/28/2012 6:20:22 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Andrei Bulba
Who the hell cares.

Evidently you do.

Why ELSE would you waste your time to reply to this thread?

17 posted on 11/28/2012 6:21:29 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
There has to be some other web page where this continual screed of hate can be published.

We try SO hard to get the FR mormons not to hate so much; but what can you do?

Their man lost; and now they're in mourning.

Give 'em a break - please!



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

18 posted on 11/28/2012 6:23:35 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Andrei Bulba
Because I believe these Mormon haters delivered the country over to communist hell in the last election.

So... you believe that; eh?

I 'believe' that the gop-e folks KNEW that a RINO would not win; so they are sending out guys like you to blame us folks who TOLD them YEARS ago that Mitt was not going to win.

19 posted on 11/28/2012 6:25:39 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: IWONDR; Eric in the Ozarks; All
tis important, tho, that ex-Mormons have a voice as well...to begin to SLIGHTLY counterbalance...
(a) The voices of 55,000+ full-time Lds missionaries;
and (b) The $MILLIONS of PR spent by the Mormon church counterfeiting itself as ,"the only true and living" Christian "church on the face of the earth." (Lds Doctrines & Covenants 1:30

If I was to start a new sect...claiming that Colofornian Community Church was the "only true & living church on the face of the earth" ... there would be a hue & cry against such perceived intolerance.

Yet when we point out this intolerance of the Mormon church, we are the ones so pegged as "intolerant." Go figure.

20 posted on 11/28/2012 6:26:22 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: IWONDR
i may be wrong, but i believe colofornian once wrote that he is an ex-mormon, and cannot give up in his efforts to convert others to his disbelief.


Guess what!

I was NEVER a MORMON; and I will do what I can to make sure that others can find their way out of the hellish heresy that calls itself LDS!


2 Corinthians 11:12

And I will keep on doing what I am doing

 in order to cut the ground from under those

who want an opportunity to be considered equal

with us in the things they boast about.

 

21 posted on 11/28/2012 6:27:23 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ouderkirk
Overall, if given a choice I would much rather have mormons for neighbors than muslims.

At least you are honest about being a religious bigot.

22 posted on 11/28/2012 6:28:20 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
With a likely 60,000+ missionaries going out in 2013...spending 6 days a week...up to 12 hrs a day out there...people are likely to encounter either such a missionary...or a Mormon co-worker, neighbor or relative.


The Rules

  1. Learn and obey all missionary rules.
  2. Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
  3. Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
  4. Don't debate or argue.
  5. Center your mind on your mission.
  6. Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
  7. Cut your hair regularly.
  8. Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
  9. Be neat and clean.
  10. Bathe frequently.
  11. Use deodorant.
  12. Polish your shoes.
  13. Iron your shirt and business suit.
  14. Arise at 6:30 A.M.
  15. Study for 2 hours every morning.
  16. Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
  17. Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
  18. Exercise regularly.
  19. Write in your journal regularly.
  20. Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
  21. Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
  22. Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
  23. Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
  24. Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
  25. Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
  26. Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
  27. End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
  28. Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
  29. Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
  30. Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
  31. Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
  32. Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
  33. Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
  34. Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
  35. Stay with your companion during all activities.
  36. Do not go on road trips.
  37. Do not leave your assigned area without permission
  38. Do not watch television.
  39. Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
  40. Do not listen to the radio.
  41. Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
  42. Do not participate in musical groups.
  43. Do not participate in athletic teams.
  44. Do not sponsor athletic teams.
  45. Do not engage in contact sports.
  46. Do not engage in water sports.
  47. Do not engage in winter sports.
  48. Do not engage in motorcycling.
  49. Do not engage in horseback riding.
  50. Do not engage in mountain climbing.
  51. Do not embark on a private boat.
  52. Do not embark in a private airplane.
  53. Do not handle firearms.
  54. Do not handle explosives.
  55. Do not swim.
  56. Do not play full court basketball.
  57. Do not play basketball in leagues.
  58. Do not play basketball in tournaments.
  59. You may play half-court basketball.
  60. Never be alone.
  61. Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
  62. Be loyal to your companion.
  63. Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
  64. Pray with your companion every day.
  65. Study with your companion every day.
  66. Plan your work with your companion every day.
  67. Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
  68. Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
  69. Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
  70. Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
  71. Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
  72. Do not arise before your companion.
  73. Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
  74. Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
  75. Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
  76. Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
  77. Do not flirt.
  78. Do not date.
  79. Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
  80. Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
  81. Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
  82. Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
  83. Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
  84. Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
  85. Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
  86. Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
  87. Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
  88. Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
  89. Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
  90. Do not telephone parents
  91. Do not telephone relatives.
  92. Do not telephone friends.
  93. Do not telephone girlfriends.
  94. Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
  95. Take problems and questions to your mission president.
  96. Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president
  97. Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert.
  98. Obey all mission rules.
  99. Obey the laws of the land.
  100. Do not get involved in politics.
  101. Do not get involved in commercial activities.
  102. Do not give any information about the area.
  103. Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
  104. Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
  105. Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
  106. Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
  107. Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
  108. Be courteous.
  109. Provide community service.
  110. Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
  111. Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
  112. Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
  113. Your mission president must approve your housing.
  114. Keep your housing unit clean.
  115. Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
  116. Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
  117. Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
  118. You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
  119. Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
  120. Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators.
  121. Maintain your health.
  122. Eat a healthy diet.
  123. Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
  124. Follow the approved exercise program.
  125. Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
  126. Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
  127. Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
  128. Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
  129. Be immunized.
  130. Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
  131. Budget your money carefully.
  132. Keep a record of what you spend.
  133. Do not spend more than your companion.
  134. Do not loan money.
  135. Do not borrow money.
  136. Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
  137. Pay your bills before leaving an area.
  138. Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
  139. Do not waste money on souvenirs.
  140. Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
  141. Be a frugal photographer.
  142. Do not accumulate excess baggage.
  143. Obey custom laws and regulations.
  144. Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
  145. Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
  146. Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
  147. Do not drive without a license.
  148. Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
  149. Do not drive members’ cars.
  150. Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
  151. Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars.
  152. Use cars only on approved mission business.
  153. Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
  154. Be conscious of safety at all times.
  155. Drive defensively.
  156. Wear your seat belt.
  157. Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
  158. If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
  159. Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.
  160. Know bicycle safety rules.
  161. Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
  162. Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
  163. Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
  164. Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
  165. Go directly to your new area when transferred.
  166. Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
  167. Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.

23 posted on 11/28/2012 6:30:33 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: kanawa
Lord, please make it end.


Who told you to add your two cents to this thread??

-- GOD



24 posted on 11/28/2012 6:32:12 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: dixjea
Not this crap again.

Please!!!

This is NOT 'crap'; but the very word of GOD!




Remember; if we're not in your neighborhood; we're on your way home.



(Or two of the OTHER 49,998 of us!)

25 posted on 11/28/2012 6:35:00 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Andrei Bulba; Colofornian
Excessively legalistic private organizations frequently run into serious trouble with ordinary morality. Let's take the exceedingly legalistic body that goes under such names as "Faith Assembly", "Church of the First Born", "General Assembly", (Some) Old Apostolic Lutheran (Laestidian and First Born) ~ and so forth ~ sometimes with combinations of those names ~ but with a sort of theological connectivity among the various leadership elites involved (In this and a number of other countries ~ to the extent they actually have recognition as a UN ngo for aboriginal groups).

Wherever they are operating they will always have the highest child and infant mortality rates off any group in the area.

Actually, you find a group that doesn't believe in medical treatment for themselves or their offspring, that's probably one of these groups.

Their behavior in regard to medical services is claimed to be theological but for the most part it's simply part of a tradition they have concerning the creation of rules and testing their faith by following those rules to the point of self-destruction.

A number of the congregations into this practice also make use of the "twin teacher" process found among the LDS, and maybe other Mormon groups. Some of this crowd actually use the ORIGINAL Book of Mormon ~ claiming Joseph Smith himself was a member or associate in his youth.

Smith used the expression "Church of the First Born" frequently in the Doctrines and Covenants.

But, let's get out of the COFB/Mormon dichotomy ~ All the Mormons seem to be over the problem with going to the doctor, but there are the anomalous Seventh Day Adventist groups out there ~ one of them called The Branch Dravidians was headed up by a fellow who called himself "Koresh" (mentioned in Mormon documents too), and he had a grandmother or great grandmother who was a member of a hard core traditionalist Church of the First Born in Oklahoma.

I don't think anyone could argue that the Branch Dravidians weren't, in the end, destroyed by their own legalisms ~ assisted by others of course ~ BTW, Bill Clinton's mother and baby-daddy were members of an Arkansas Church of the First Born congregation.

So, yes, there are people watching this problem ~ excessive legalism.

26 posted on 11/28/2012 6:35:45 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Colofornian

Quotations from Mormon Leaders on the Christian Faith

 


by James White

We hear it over and over again. "We never put down other churches. That's not Christian." Or, a variant on this theme is, "You have strengthened my testimony, because you are persecuting the Church!" Often LDS people interpret any disagreement with their beliefs as "persecution" or "bashing," and claim that their Church would never do that!

Yet, in reality, disagreement and refutation is not persecution. If it is, then Paul was "persecuting" the Judaizers in Galatia when he wrote such a strong letter denouncing their beliefs (the book of Galatians). Christians are to stand for the truth, and "refute those who contradict" (Titus 1:9). In fact, it is an act of love to speak the truth (see our on-site e-tract, Why Do You Do This?).

But there is another reason LDS people should not cry "Foul!" when encountering strong disagreement with LDS beliefs. It's a matter of simple consistency. As the following quotations show, Mormon leaders, and even Mormon scripture, denounce the Christian faith! Why is it fair for Joseph Smith to say all other churches are "corrupt," yet Christians cannot reply by saying Joseph Smith was in error?

"Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the Church of the Lamb of God and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of God belongeth to that great church; which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth." (The Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10)

"Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Documentary History of the Church, Introduction, xl)

"I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).

"...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)

"...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their own creation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)

"The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God." (Brigham Young, JD 8:171)

"We may very properly say that the sectarian world do not know anything correctly, so far as pertains to salvation. Ask them where heaven is?- where they are going to when they die?-where Paradise is! -and there is not a priest in the world that can answer your questions. Ask them what kind of a being our Heavenly Father is, and they cannot tell you so much as Balaam's ass told him. They are more ignorant than children." (Brigham Young, JD 5:229).

"The Christian world, I discovered, was like the captain and crew of a vessel on the ocean without a compass, and tossed to and fro whithersoever the wind listed to blow them. When the light came to me, I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness." (Brigham Young, JD 5:73).

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." (John Taylor, JD 13:225)

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." (John Taylor, JI) 13:225)

"Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177)

"I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true." (Joseph Smith, DHC 1:6)

"I spoke of the impropriety of turning away from the truth, and going after a people so destitute of righteousness as the Methodists." (Joseph Smith, DHC 2:319)

"...brother Joseph B. Nobles once told a Methodist priest, after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshiped was the "Mormon's" Devil-a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts and passions." (Brigham Young, JD 5:331)

"...brother Heber C. Kimball was beset by a number of Baptist priests who had been attending a conference. He read them all down out of the New Testament....With regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world." (Brigham Young, JD 8:199).

"The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon...." (Orson Pratt, Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, "Divine Authenticity," no.6, p.84).

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels." (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60)

"And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act." (Orson Pratt, OP-WA, "The Kingdom of God," no.2, p.6)

"...all other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who recieves baptism or the Lord's supper from their hands will highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt people." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, pg. 255)

"...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness." (Pratt, The Seer, p.255)

"Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." (Brigham Young, JD 6:176)

"Evil spirits control much of the so-called religious worship in the world; for instance, the great creeds of Christendom were formulated so as to conform to their whispered promptings." (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.246)

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christiandom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common orgin. They belong to Babylon." (George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p.324)

Finally, note the views of Mormon Prophet Brigham Young regarding the Christian view of Jesus Christ:

"You may hear the divines of the day extol the character of the Saviour, undertake to exhibit his true character before the people, and give an account of his origin...I have frequently thought of mules, which you know are half horse and half ass, when reflecting upon the representations made by those divines. I have heard sectarian priests undertake to tell the character of the Son of God, and they make him half of one species and half of another, and I could not avoid thinking at once of the mule, which is the most hateful creature that ever was made, I believe. You will excuse me, but I have thus thought many a time" (Journal of Discourses 4:217).

 


27 posted on 11/28/2012 6:37:23 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Colofornian

I’m not very well versed on Shinto or Baal. But here’s the cool part, i don’t need to be to resist them converting me.


28 posted on 11/28/2012 6:44:00 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Colofornian

You know, there are ACTUAL problems in the nation that need working on...


29 posted on 11/28/2012 6:44:00 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny (Thought Puzzle: Describe Islam without using the phrase "mental disorder" more than four times.)
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To: Vendome; Elsie; All
Yes, the Mormon leader religious hypocrisy is telling...

The Mormons have spent $millions of dollars & millions of hours belittling, slandering, and slamming worldwide Christianity from 1830-2012.

So, imagine a mormon leader head spinning...each head as two faces...

The one face is constantly emitting such bashing of worldwide Christianity [as evidenced on its 24/7 Web site; its books; its curricula; its instructions of Lds missionaries to instruct on the "Great (supposedly 'universal') apostasy]

The second face of Mormonism is then a grinning one, pleading all "niceness"...and "We want to be considered 'Christians' too"

Hey, if we're the "corrupt, abominable, false, dead, church of the devil 'apostates'" the Mormon church says Christians and Christianity is...then why do they want their brand and ours to mingle as one?

30 posted on 11/28/2012 6:45:03 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Elsie
Islam is a criminal enterprise tenuously held together by the preponderance of ignorance and the threat of violence.

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of proper>ty exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the infence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith.
It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50, London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).

Religious bigot... indeed, and PROUD to be so.

31 posted on 11/28/2012 6:47:01 PM PST by Ouderkirk (Democrats...the party of Slavery, Segregation, Sodomy, and Sedition)
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To: Andrei Bulba; Colofornian
Who the hell cares.

It's much like TV. If you don't care, just keep surfing til you find something you like.

In the mean time, those of of us who are care about the lost souls in this evil cult will continue to discuss this evil doctrine.

32 posted on 11/28/2012 6:47:09 PM PST by Gamecock
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To: Colofornian

Rotflol! You’re claiming to help people have more meaningfull conversations with this? LOL!

Whatever...

You have become... Entertainment.

Delph


33 posted on 11/28/2012 6:47:29 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: Elsie

Overall, if given a choice I would much rather have mormons for neighbors than muslims.
“At least you are honest about being a religious bigot.”

Then put me in the religious bigot category too. Id rather have mormons next door than moslems. ANY day of the week.


34 posted on 11/28/2012 6:47:44 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Psycho_Bunny; All
You know, there are ACTUAL problems in the nation that need working on...

You know, if you actually have a Bible...or even if you don't [use www.biblegateway.com]...you can open up Acts 20...verses 28-31 to be specific...

The apostle Paul there is leaving the church at Ephesus, where he has stayed teaching & building it up for three years.

He warns them about "wolves" -- false shepherds -- who will come in after he leaves, distort the truth, and attempt to claim the flock.

Do you know how often Paul says there that he warned against these truth-distorters???

Paul says he warned of them for THREE YEARS DAY & NIGHT!

By inference, then, you would pretend to not only scold me for delving into this arena, but even the man God used to write a good chunk of the New Testament!

I suppose you would have the gall, if, upon reaching heaven, to lecture Paul on how much time he spent on that subject matter. "You know, Paul, there WERE ACTUAL problems in the Middle East going on at that time...problems that needed attention..."

(Well, let us all know how that lecture in heaven works for ya)

35 posted on 11/28/2012 6:51:05 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: dixjea

Religion forum, religious discussion - yet you took the time to tell us its crap - ok?


36 posted on 11/28/2012 7:05:11 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Agree. . .Better to analyze as critically; what it is to be of 'totalitarian mind'; claim Marxism; Communism; or worse perhaps; that which 'doubles down' by faith; as does Islamism. Certainly enough to keep one awake at night; or; at least; it should.

(Never feared the Mormon next door. . .and doubt, for that matter; the writer of this hit piece has either.)

But having named the threat; the writer of this hit piece; probably sleeps like a baby.

37 posted on 11/28/2012 7:07:07 PM PST by cricket
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To: Andrei Bulba

“...I believe these Mormon haters delivered the country over to communist hell in the last election.”

First of all Romney is a Progressive(R) whereas Obama is a Progressive(D) and both liberal to the Left of the aisle.

And, yes, his Mormon roots did play a roll which isn’t a Christian religion/denomination according to Mormon writings.

Why would I want to vote for a Leftist who’s goal is to become a god of planet (either this one or another one out there in the vast universe) when there is only enough room for one God according to Jewish and Christian teachings?


38 posted on 11/28/2012 7:17:50 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Colofornian

“You know, if you actually have a Bible...or even if you don’t [use www.biblegateway.com]...you can open up Acts 20...verses 28-31 to be specific... “

Using this verse one could come to the conclusion that the Protestant denominations are the same as LDS, and the Catholic Church is the only true church and Catholics are the only true Christians. How does that work for you?


39 posted on 11/28/2012 7:24:19 PM PST by sean327 (God created all men equal, then some become Marines!)
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To: DelphiUser; All
You’re claiming to help people have more meaningfull conversations with this?

#1...some people just need to "cut to the heart" of the matter to jumpstart such convos.

And, since the heart of Mormonism is legalism, then, yes...people need to understand that overall context of Mormonism.

#2...You might not think that a religious guy calling a group of religious people as "children of the devil" to be a "meaningful convo exchange"...but guess what? You'd be wrong if you were talking about Jesus...and the exchange He had with the legalistic Pharisees in John 8...where He did repeatedly reference them as "children of the devil."

So, go ahead, DU...let's see you critique Jesus for that one!

40 posted on 11/28/2012 7:28:43 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: cricket; Elsie

(see post #22...elsie’s comment I s’pose applies to you as well!)


41 posted on 11/28/2012 7:30:09 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: sean327
Using this verse one could come to the conclusion that the Protestant denominations are the same as LDS, and the Catholic Church is the only true church and Catholics are the only true Christians. How does that work for you?

Except the church of the first century wasn't the Roman Catholic church...Mostly 'twas Messianic Christians...and some Gentiles...God-fearers

42 posted on 11/28/2012 7:31:59 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

So... you’re Catholic then.

:)


43 posted on 11/28/2012 7:36:59 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks; Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Andrei Bulba; Godzilla; greyfoxx39; ...

On a religious forum it is expected and justified that doctrinal contentions take place, and that particular elitist groups which exclude all others as being Christian are examined and exposed. Esp. the fastest growing one.

As is the duplicity of those who condemn all judging as hateful (not that I am saying you are) as they champion plurality.

Truth is life, and is exclusive by nature, and just as the ethos of the Left is legitimately attacked in the political arena by those who contend for conservative values and principals, so foundational religious truths are on this officially pro-God forum, though it may seem irrelevant to some, or overkill (which it sometimes may be).


44 posted on 11/28/2012 7:37:48 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Elsie

Interesting ~ within the last year or so I found some Church of the First Born congregations in Oklahoma who have rules very, very, very, very similar to those, but not just for missionaries ~ they apply them to everybody in the congregation ~ they add one about laying on hands and calling in the elders and deacons to pray for the sick ~ but it’s all the same stuff.


45 posted on 11/28/2012 7:38:01 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: DesertRhino

i’ve had both ~ seriously ~ Moslems are better.


46 posted on 11/28/2012 7:42:45 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: DelphiUser

You’re entertained? You’re a better person than I. I’m non-Mormon and I find this stuff completely insufferable.


47 posted on 11/28/2012 7:44:17 PM PST by RichInOC (Palin 2016: The Perfect Storm.)
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: sean327

It would be reasonable to respond to that charge, and such is often debated here. As said, truth is exclusive by nature, and thus claiming no church is the One True Church is just as much a truth claim that condemns those who differ as is claiming your church is the OTC.

Note however that the Prots contention is not that their particular church is the OTC, that being one exclusive claim, but that the OTC is the general body of Christ which one is baptized into by the Holy Spirit upon contrite faith in the risen Lord Jesus to save the damned + destitute sinner by His sinless shed blood, not because one deserved it. (1Cor. 12:13; Rm. 3:10-4:6) And thus they contend (Jude 1:3) against those who reject all churches outside theirs as being valid church and or Christians.


49 posted on 11/28/2012 7:52:15 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Why would I want to vote for a Leftist who’s goal is to become a god of planet (either this one or another one out there in the vast universe) when there is only enough room for one God according to Jewish and Christian teachings?

Evangelicals supported Romney in record numbers. Ralph Reed said it was "astonishing".

“Evangelicals turned out in record numbers and voted as heavily for Mitt Romney yesterday as they did for George W. Bush in 2004,” said Ralph Reed, chairman of TK-based Faith and Freedom Coalition. “That is an astonishing outcome that few would have predicted even a few months ago."

50 posted on 11/28/2012 7:56:46 PM PST by Ken H
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