Skip to comments.Will Smithmas return this year? [Merry Smithmas!? Lds' Joseph Smith b'day usurps Christ's birth?]
Posted on 12/01/2012 3:10:48 PM PST by Colofornian
I just realized that Christmas falls on a Tuesday this year, so December 23 is on a Sunday. This of course provides a great opportunity for the LDS church to prove its Christian roots by using that day to talk about Joseph Smith, it is his birthday after all.
So, will the average LDS ward celebrate Smithmas or Christmas on December 23 this year? I'm guessing my wife's ward will split the difference and dedicate part to Joseph Smith and part to Jesus. I may even have to show up and pay attention to see what happens, it could be entertaining.
Want evidence that the Mormon church leaders continually replace Jesus Christ with Joseph Smith at this time of year? I especially recommend these articles from Mormons...
* A Prophets Life: The CradleSharon, Vermont [Mormon Merry Smithmas Day!]
* The Joseph Smith Crèche at BYU, December 2005 [Mormon Merry Smithmas!]
* Dealing with Smithmas [Mormon worship of Joseph Smith]
* Praise To The Man: A Review Of The Annual Joseph Smith Memorial Sermons [Mormon Merry Smithmas]
* Joseph Smith: a witness of Christ [O Come, O Come EmmanSMITHuel, anyone?]
* The dreaded Christmastime ward sacrament meeting [Mormon Merry Smithmas!]
* Praising the man [Mormon Merry Smithmas!]
* Exploring: The Church Began with a Prophet [Mormon Merry Smithmas Day!]
These other recent threads provide additional evidence:
* Reasons Joseph Smith Is More Important Than Jesus [Mormon Merry Smithmas!]
* 'Praise to the Man' honors Joseph Smith [Mormon Merry Smithmas!]
* Joseph Smith: Blessed Be His Name [Mormon Merry Smithmas]
* Joseph Smith Jr.Prophet of God, Mighty Servant
* Tis the season for Smithmas; Whom do you worship? [Mormon Merry Smithmas]
Ho ho ho.
Now when all the snark starts flowing you will get all huffy.
Really, what do you expect posting something like this?
Since the ending ‘mas’ actually refers to the mass ie the death of the Nazarene why would anyone celebrate a mass as a birth day??? Moreover since the Nazarene wasn’t born in December but rather September what bdifference does any of it make?? I enjoy the lights and songs and goto the church of my youth because I still like hearing Christmas carols sung by a full choir with organ accompaniment. I have no illusions about the day...it is a pagan celebration and always has been. This day my faith does not make....
Smithmas? Oh LDS.
I don’t think we have any of youse guys here in NY.
Christmas will be the 25th. The 24th will be Merry Fishmas if you are of Italian extraction. And Boxing Day will be in overseas p and not here and has a tendency to cause tsunamis.
is available. Just $9.99*
Last year Saundra and Resty directed me to a lecture by one of the twelve for the Christmas season, it was about fifteen minutes long.
The name of (lds) jesus was not even mentioned until the eight minute mark and only once, then once again at the very end.
Because JS bday is on a Sunday my guess that will be the focus.
Smith is more important than Christ...
The caption reads: "As we commemorate the birth of the baby in Betheleham, the Savior of the world, may we also remember his messenger Joseph Smith, and rejoice in his life and sacrifice."
When I want to understand the depth of the true Love of Christ, a just use an opposite contrast and finally conclude that ....
Jesus Christ must love Mankind, as much as Colofornian hates the Latter-Day-Saints (Mormons)
Quite an accomplishment in Irony Colofornian!
I wonder why we haven’t bought it yet???
If Navidad celebrations bespeak “pagan” to you, then by all means pass them up. Otherwise don’t complain.
Most modern Christians aren’t even aware of pagan connotations that many elements of the modern celebration once commonly had. It can be debated whether this is a bad or good thing, but it reflects a common practical manner of the church in transforming the meanings of things in the creation that had been taken by paganism to be pagan symbols but which are not good or bad of themselves.
Also, of course the -mass reflects Orthodox/Roman-Catholic practice. The communion service was traditionally integrated with whatever Christian calendar topic was timely, so you got this-mas(s) and that-mas etc. It so happened that the common belief that the Nativity happened on or about December 25 gave rise to Christ-mas(s).
Now that evangelical and Protestant churches don’t have “masses” for communion, and may not even celebrate communion every week, Christ-mas(s) is the only survivor. “Nativity” would be a better name, but hardly anyone uses it in English. Hispanics with their Navidad have it easier with this theological detail.
Do you know the difference between Mormanism and Mormans? Your hatred of exposing evil will disappear when you gain that knowledge. “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.” Eph 5:11
Christmas is NOT a pagan holiday. December 25 was indeed used by pagans, but Christians use it for their own Christian purposes. Today is Saturday, a day named after the pagan god Saturn. I seriously doubt you refuse to acknowledge that it is Saturday. You just don’t celebrate Saturn’s Day. There’s a huge difference between those two ideas.
Isn’t Will Smith a scientologist?
I've never seen any evidence that Colofornian hates any latter day saint, if you have, please cite an example. Maybe you meant latter day saintism.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
If you bothered to read all of my post, I stated clearly that I participated in the seasonal celebration. I however do not consider this to be the day of the birth of my Lord and Savior. I acknowledged the difference of the two ideas no matter what you thought you read
It wasn’t a complaint merely an observation of what Christmas is and isn’t. Did you bother to notice that I specifically referred to the things I do to celebrate during this seasonal time?
“If you bothered to read all of my post,”
I did. Taht’s why I start off with the point that Christmas is not pagan. Maybe you should have read my post. Maybe you shouldn’t be a hypocrite too.
“I stated clearly that I participated in the seasonal celebration.”
And I clearly did not say that you didn’t do that. Again, you clearly did not read what I posted.
“I however do not consider this to be the day of the birth of my Lord and Savior.”
Which I never mentioned or referenced in any way because that point is essentially meaningless.
“I acknowledged the difference of the two ideas no matter what you thought you read.”
No, you did not. I wrote: “You just dont celebrate Saturns Day. Theres a huge difference between those two ideas.” Clearly the “difference of the two ideas” is that a day could have some sort of pagan meaning for ancient pagans but have no such meaning for Christians. You, however, have already stated your incorrect understanding: “I have no illusions about the day...it is a pagan celebration and always has been.” Thus, you consider Christmas day to be pagan. Thus, you do not see the “difference of the two ideas.”
Learn to read. Don’t be a hypocrite.
I agree - so many are so hung up on Mormonism as being the greatest threat the world has seen that they lose sight of reality. I'd wager that when the prophesy fulfills, Mormonism will not be the one world religion that requires the mark of the beast of death - I wonder what religion is out there that might fill this bill...
#1...Multi-tasking is allowed in this life...You can take on both Islam and Mormonism...(that's allowed)
#2...only a fool thinks the "brush fire" here on earth is the three-alarm, city-wide meltdown that hell represents.
#3...I would have thought, Trebb, that we take our cultural cue from a certain "Lord" named Jesus Christ? Who are we to follow when it comes to setting cultural priorities? Jesus and the apostle Paul? or Huddles Masses?
"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." (Luke 12:4-5)
So does Jesus say, "fear the one-world dominant Muslims?" (No)
Instead, does He say to exercise fear of the One who has authority to cast somebody into hell? (Yes)
So, indeed, our "fear" is on behalf of those who are placing their eternal spiritual lives at risk.
As the apostle Paul was leaving the church of Ephesus, he warned them with this high-priority alert:
"I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears." (Acts 20:29-31)
Paul's cultural priority? (Defend against the false disciples who will proselytize the flock and draw away men unto themselves!)
Tell me something, Trebb: If you did something tearfully night and day for three years, do you think it's rather important? So what? We're just to conclude, "Oh, the man who contributed a good chunk to the New Testament -- what does he know about cultural priorities?"
I'll take Paul's and Jesus' already-revealed priorities to your guesswork...
Jesus loves you.
The Holy Spirit loves you.
These three persons within One God, not multiple gods, love you.
And I love you, too.
I love you enough to tell you the truth. And not to patronize you by withholding it from you.
You're of value.
And it's important we have a series of ongoing convos in heaven.
Please ask yourself: "What am I basing my anticipated time with Heavenly Father upon? When I boil it down, what am I trusting in to get me from Point A - here - to Point B -- being with Heavenly Father?"
Well most modern Christians aren't aware of pagan connotations assigned to most names for days of the week or most months.
I don't think we are honoring the Roman (& other) gods of the day, are we?
If you call Saturday Saturday, we're not giving recognition to Saturn's Day, are you?
('Tis best when mentioning to ping as well)
I have no idea what you think you are agreeing with.
Why, one can do the same thing here, for free!
You are correct, I did not know restornu was back, and thought Saundra had left.
Apparently I was wrong on both counts.
It seems double minded to jawbone about how “pagan” it is yet to do it... but again I’m jes’ a red neck.
Chistmas does not begin liturgicaly until Dec. 25th.
Do Mormons usually celebrate Christmas before Dec. 25th? I mean - with the reading of the infant naratives in the gospels? Usually in Christian churches, readings from the Old Testament prophets are emphasized during advent, and then on the evening of Dec. 24th, the celebration of the birth of the Mesiah begins with the bells tolling and the people singing Christmas Carols.
It seems to me that jumping the gun inside the church edifices is not a good thing to do. It sacrifices the scriptures to commercial interests, and then on Dec. 26th, Christmas is over; when in actuality, the Christmas celebrations in churches should be continued until the Feast of the Epiphany. (12 days of Christmas, get it?)
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.Who has made this so?Have I?Have this people?Have the world?No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.Can you pass without his inspection?No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
This sounds kind of...
I hope I'm wrong.
Their bannishment for bad behavior has been lifted - as it has for a lot of MORMONs on FR.
I do not have knowledge as to why.
At least the Jehovan Witnesses know it!
Although; I’ve not seen any signs of PD or OMM.
I read yours and it didm;t even bother to address directly anything I had said....except to state that “Christmas” is not pagan. Now it is nice that you make a statement with no proof but there is more than enough history of ‘Christmas” to say that it is pagan....not only is origin ( as is Easter) but in the ‘choice’ of date.
Your current response is not only snarky but without any proof what so ever.
Naming of the day of the week while carrying names from ancient mythologies (Woden, Frigge, Thor, Saturday) does not a celebration make. That is illogical as a construct and really has nothing to do with anything in either the original post or my response to it.
You apparently do not know enough of your own faith to even know the history of the times in which certain events occurred. To bad, it might help you to a deeper understanding.
Don’t bother to respond I don’t want your blood pressure to get any higher than it already is... and I won’t engage any further with the disarmed
AH but you see I do not celebrate “Christmas”. I do enjoy the lights and music and I am always happy to give other people gifts. If that is double minded so be it but I do not treat this as a religious observance in any way. So I say to you all happy holidays but I will not wish you a merry christmas (any more than I would wish you a happy Easter....another pagan holiday that has NOTHING to do with the resurrection of my Lord and Savior)
I'm sure that your pastor wouldn't mind if you missed that Sunday at your church, to do a little first hand research at another one!!!
(Take your camera/vcr...)
Did the pagan holiday hop around datewise to match the Jewish lunar calendar?
“I read yours and it didm;t even bother to address directly anything I had said....except to state that Christmas is not pagan. Now it is nice that you make a statement with no proof but there is more than enough history of Christmas to say that it is pagan....not only is origin ( as is Easter) but in the choice of date.”
False. 1) The proof is that it is CHRIST’S MASS. No pagan celebrated CHRIST’S MASS. As I noted, pagans celebrated their own things on December 25. CHRIST’S MASS was never one of them. Only Christians celebrated that. The fact that you can’t see such an obvious point does not bode well. 2) As the early Christians themselves tell us, December 25th was chosen TO OPPOSE PAGAN CELEBRATIONS. Thus, Christmas is doubly NOT pagan. It was not only a celebration of Christ, but it was chosen in opposition to paganism. 3) Easter is nothing but the Christian Pascha. It is only called Easter in Germanic language speaking countries. In itself Pascha has no connections to paganism at all.
“Your current response is not only snarky but without any proof what so ever.”
Again, CHRIST’S MASS is obvious. No pagan celebrated CHRIST’S MASS.
“Naming of the day of the week while carrying names from ancient mythologies (Woden, Frigge, Thor, Saturday) does not a celebration make. That is illogical as a construct and really has nothing to do with anything in either the original post or my response to it.”
Actually it has everything to do with it. Pagans named the days in honor of gods. We retain those names, but we deny any act of honoring the gods. On the 25th we celebrate Christmas - CHRIST’S MASS - and not any pagan celebration for which that date might have been previously known.
“You apparently do not know enough of your own faith to even know the history of the times in which certain events occurred.”
That’s hilarious. I am a professional Church Historian. What are your credentials? Oh, that’s right, you post on the internet about things which you apparently know nothing about.
“To bad, it might help you to a deeper understanding.”
My understanding is apparently much deeper than yours.
“Dont bother to respond I dont want your blood pressure to get any higher than it already is”
My blood pressure is actually very good. Laughter helps. I’m laughing at your posts quite a bit as a matter of fact.
“... and I wont engage any further with the disarmed”
Yeah, like I said, what are your bona fides on this? I suggest you don’t come to a gun fight armed only with a spork again.
If you did some basic research you will find that Easter is in fact associated with the goddess Ishtar...it is interesting historically. Read some history....Nimrod et al were associated with a spring festival that was a movable feast.
I don’t care what you ‘celebrate’ but at least have the honesty to know the historical roots of what it is.
I knew this already; but my question remains: Did the Istar celebration hop around on the calendar?