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Lawsuit Threat Cancels Christmas Concert (Hatetheist Alert)
Hawaii News Now ^ | December 4, 2012 | Rick Daysog

Posted on 12/05/2012 10:55:04 AM PST by kaehurowing

Lawsuit threat cancels Christmas concert

HONOLULU (HawaiiNewsNow) -

A threatened lawsuit had put a halt to what's become a Christmas tradition for members of the Moanalua High School orchestra.

For the past six years, the award-winning group and volunteers from the New Hope Church have raised more than $200,0000 for a charity that treats poor people in Hawaii.

But that all came to a halt on Monday when the Department of Education decided to cancel the concert just four days before the event.

In a letter to the Department of Education, Mitch Kahle, founder of the Hawaii Citizens for the Separation of State and Church, took issue with the involvement of New Hope Church, which handles ticket sales and sells those tickets at it's services.

"The issue here is an entanglement between a public school and a Christian church," said Kahle.

"And one of the things about the constitution is that it prohibits the involvement of public schools and churches."

Concert volunteer Chad Brownstein said that this year's event has sold more than 600 tickets and would have generated about $30,000 in sales and donations.

"(The students) could have done something that they're good at it and benefit others instead of themselves," Brownstein said.

"So I'm very disappointed that they won't be getting that lesson through that concert anymore."

Concert organizers are still looking at other locations but chances of finding a new place before Christmas that are very slim.


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Skeptics/Seekers
KEYWORDS: atheist; hatetheist; homosexualagenda
I am getting so tired of this.
1 posted on 12/05/2012 10:55:08 AM PST by kaehurowing
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To: kaehurowing

“Chances are slim”. That’s why they waited until the last minute. Now, if a private venue is found, will the students be forbidden from volunteering to play?


2 posted on 12/05/2012 10:59:39 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: kaehurowing

How about taking it to Kapioloni Hospital? You know, the place where President Obama was born?


3 posted on 12/05/2012 11:00:50 AM PST by goldi
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To: kaehurowing
"And one of the things about the constitution is that it prohibits the involvement of public schools and churches."

Uh, no, it doesn't. The Constitution prevents the government from interfering with religion, it does not prohibit religious and government organizations working together.

4 posted on 12/05/2012 11:02:53 AM PST by kevkrom (If a wise man has an argument with a foolish man, the fool only rages or laughs...)
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To: kaehurowing

He singled out a “Christian Church”.


5 posted on 12/05/2012 11:03:17 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: kaehurowing

Why not let the church do the concert? They can say that the performers are students at blah high school. It does not have to be a school event.


6 posted on 12/05/2012 11:05:39 AM PST by petitfour
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To: petitfour

And they can use the school facilities. The courts allow for churches to use public facilities.


7 posted on 12/05/2012 11:07:07 AM PST by petitfour
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To: petitfour

Sorry, unless privately owned. The instruments are property of the school.


8 posted on 12/05/2012 11:08:15 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: massgopguy

If it were a Buddhist temple, no problemo


9 posted on 12/05/2012 11:13:58 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: massgopguy

The only instruments in our local public schools that are the schools’ are some of the larger and more expensive percussion items. I have bought 3 for our 5 kids.


10 posted on 12/05/2012 11:14:15 AM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: petitfour
My Knights of Columbus Council co-sponsors the Bread of Life's “Don't be Alone on Thanksgiving Day” where we serve or deliver 1,000. We used to run it out of the Center Methodist Church. Now we use the high school cafeteria. The Principal’s father was a charter member of the BOL. I fear the next principal will not be so accommodating.
11 posted on 12/05/2012 11:15:41 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: kaehurowing

I wish these people would stop referring to themselves as atheists and use the more accurate term of anti-theists.


12 posted on 12/05/2012 11:18:33 AM PST by ZirconEncrustedTweezers (Democrats are evil. Republicans are stupid.)
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To: kaehurowing

Hvae the concert anyway. Let them file the suit and watch it get thrown out of court, and have to pay $1000s in fees.


13 posted on 12/05/2012 11:21:55 AM PST by darkangel82 (I don't have a superiority complex, I'm just better than you.)
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To: Resolute Conservative

We kept everything in The Band Room. Band was 7th Period every day. But that was in 1975. Some instruments were privately owned, Rent to Buy or school owned. All the drums were school property.


14 posted on 12/05/2012 11:23:52 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: massgopguy

Most high school orchestra students own their own instruments. The majority will have been playing for years and will have progressed to the point where they want an instrument that fits them well and is in better shape than rentals. Of those who do rent most tend to do so from private shops. Musicians who play the large instruments- cello and especially string bass- are most likely to rent because they don’t want to lug the instruments back and forth to and from school and because travel can be rough on large instruments. Of those bassists and cellists who do rent many will have their own instrument at home for practice. The large percussive instruments are often owned by the school, but I am sure that it would be possible to track some down for use in a charitable concert.


15 posted on 12/05/2012 11:29:59 AM PST by Mrs. Grammarian (The Grammarian's other half.)
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To: kaehurowing

And yet the politician bass turds can have Ramadan celebrations in the White House and on Capitol Hill. Something stinks here. If the homos are going to get away with this kind of crap, it’s time that all celebrations of Ramadan, Christmas, Hanukkah, etc. no longer be held in the White House or on Capitol Hill. NOTHING! If we’re going to play this goofy “separtion of church and state” bull****, everyone should have some “skin in the game”.


16 posted on 12/05/2012 11:52:42 AM PST by FlingWingFlyer (Don't tax me bro! Tax that guy over there!)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

F hawaii, wish we could give it back.


17 posted on 12/05/2012 12:16:58 PM PST by bicyclerepair ( >-> Zombies eat brains. >-> 50% of FL is safe.)
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To: kaehurowing

“And one of the things about the constitution is that it prohibits the involvement of public schools and churches.”

Silly nonsense. Our Constitution does no such thing. These haters have got to be stopped!


18 posted on 12/05/2012 1:26:44 PM PST by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: kaehurowing

if they really didn’t care what others do, they’d let all the people they think are so backwards do their stuff and just ignore it, and do their own thing.

they are so NOT live and let live. if they don’t do it they don’t want any others to be able to either.


19 posted on 12/05/2012 5:12:56 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: massgopguy

again government cant interfere with religion, it never said it can’t work with it. as a governor jefferson did a lot of religious things and days of prayer. as president he didn’t because he knew the wall of separation was for the national/federal govt, but not the state levels.


20 posted on 12/05/2012 5:16:37 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: kaehurowing; All
If the students at this high school were being taught the Constitution and its history like they should be, they'd be able to argue the following points to save their Christmas program.

To begin with, FDR's activist justices weakened our religious freedoms in the early 1940s by wrongly ignoring the 10th Amendment in diverse cases which not only tested the limits of Congress's Section 8-limited powers, but also the scope of our 1A protected rights. Although renegade justices wrongly swept 10A under the carpet primarily to give the green light to constitutionally indefensible New Deal federal spending programs inspired by FDR imo, they also wrongly limited the scope of our 1A protected religious freedoms.

More specifically, justices misrepresented Thomas Jefferson's stance on church and state separation. This is evidenced by the following excerpt from Jefferson's writings where Jefferson had noted that the following. Jefferson had indicated that the Founding States had made the 1st and 10th Amendments in part to reserve government power to regulate our 1A protected rights to the states regardless that the Founders had made the 1st Amendment to prohibit such powers entirely to Congress; our 1A rights were not intended to be absolute as we are now led to believe.

"3. Resolved that it is true as a general principle and is also expressly declared by one of the amendments to the constitution that ‘the powers not delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively or to the people’: and that no power over the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or freedom of the press being delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, all lawful powers respecting the same did of right remain, & were reserved, to the states or the people: that thus was manifested their determination to retain to themselves the right of judging how far the licentiousness of speech and of the press may be abridged without lessening their useful freedom, and how far those abuses which cannot be separated from their use should be tolerated rather than the use be destroyed; (emphasis added) …" --Thomas Jefferson, Kentucky Resolutions, 1798.

For probable reasons that I won't go into in this post, FDR's activist justices had succeeded in doing their dirty work to deliberately stifle 1st Amendment protected religious expression. They had done so by wrongly construing the 14th Amendment to apply 1A in its entirety, including prohibiting Congress from making laws addressing religious expression, to the states. They did so by ignoring that 14A was intended to apply only personal rights protected by the Constitution to the states which is clearly stated in Section 1 of 14A. And by doing so, the justices wrongly ignored that John Bingham, the main author of Sec. 1 of 14A, had officially clarified, both before and after 14A was ratified, that 14A took away no state rights.

"The adoption of the proposed amendment will take from the States no rights (emphasis added) that belong to the States." --John Bingham, Appendix to the Congressional Globe, 1866. (last paragraph of first column)

"No right (emphasis added) reserved by the Constitution to the States should be impaired…" --John Bingham, Appendix to the Congressional Globe, 1871. (first or second paragraph of first column, depending on how you count paragraphs.)

"Do gentlemen say that by so legislating we would strike down the rights of the State? God forbid. I believe our dual system of government essential to our national existance." --John Bingham, Appendix to the Congressional Globe. (second paragraph from bottom in third column)

Bigngham's clarification of 14A means that it didn't eliminate 10A-protected state power to regulate religion, power acknowledged by the real Thomas Jefferson. And while some patriots may find the idea of state power to regulate religion repulsive, please consider the following. This not only the same power that the states can use to allow public schools to teach creationism, but also the power that allows schools to allow students to run Christmas programs, as long as nobody's constitutional rights are violated.

And if the students were also taught constitutonal basics like Sections 1-3 and 8 of Article I, Article V, and the 1st and 10th Amendment, they would also be able to argue this. Not only do constutionally undefined federal agencies like the Department of Education have no legislative or regulatory authority to tell students, public schools, or anybody else what to do or not to do, such constitutionally-limited legislative powers reserved uniquely to elected members of Congress, but students could also argue the following. They could remind people that the states have never delegated to Congress the specific power to regulate religion even if Congress did have the constitutional authority to delegate its legislative powers to non-elected federal bureaucrats.

Finally, if students were actually taught the differences between the legislative, executive and judicial powers of the three branches of the federal government, along with the pleviously mentioned statutes concerning the division of federal and state government powers, they would know the following about FDR's puppet justices. Not only did FDR's crook justices wrongly legislate the constitutional myth of absolute church and state separation from the bench, but they breached the Founding State's division of federal and state powers by actually usurping 10A protected state legislative powers from the bench, as opposed to usurping federal legislative powers.

So it's all the students' fault. /s

Are we having fun yet?

What a mess! :^(

21 posted on 12/05/2012 5:36:28 PM PST by Amendment10
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To: kaehurowing

There are poor people in Hawaii?


22 posted on 12/06/2012 5:32:27 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: kaehurowing
"And one of the things about the constitution is that it prohibits the involvement of public schools and churches."

I have my copy of the US Constitution right here. Can't find this part.

23 posted on 12/06/2012 5:55:19 AM PST by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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