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"To Hell With It" - Dorothy Day (Kinda interesting article from the *bad* NCR)
National Catholic Reporter ^ | Dec. 5, 2012 | Michael Sean Winters

Posted on 12/06/2012 10:00:52 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o

We continue our series of considering Catholic identity today by looking at Dorothy Day. Monday, I set the tone for the week by recalling the response of Flannery O’Connor to a group of erudite Catholics who thought the Eucharist was a great symbol: “Well, if it’s just a symbol, then to hell with it.” Then, I examined the counterfeit of faith known as civil religion. Yesterday, I looked at the Vatican new motu proprio regarding the Catholic identity of our charities and a different counterfeit form of Christianity, a reduction of the faith to a social justice ethic. Today, we examine Dorothy Day, to whom, assuredly, the adjective counterfeit has never been applied.

Robert Cole begins his short, brilliant biography of Dorothy Day by recalling the first time he met her. He went to the Catholic Worker House on Mott Street. He opened the door. Dorothy was sitting at the opposite end of the room with a distraught woman. In a flash, she signaled Cole to a chair near the door, and then returned to her conversation. The woman was severely intoxicated and quite hysterical and Dorothy was trying to calm her down. Just when it appeared that some measure of calm had been achieved, the woman would explode into a new fit of hysterics. This went on for several minutes until finally the woman was at some peace. Dorothy took her leave of the woman and approached Cole. She asked, “Were you waiting to speak with one of us?”

I first read that account several years back and, appropriately, it brought tears to my eyes. I still cannot tell that story now without my eyes welling up. Everything you need to know about why Dorothy Day was a saint is contained in that little word “us.” She was incapable of dismissing the dignity of another human person, even for a second, even for someone who would not have cared. If Levinas is correct that our human conscience is more than a prod to do right and avoid wrong, if it is deeper, about the moral challenge of the face of another, Dorothy Day had a very finely tuned conscience. And it is that, not our works, that gains us heaven.

That “us” shames all the rest of us who are not so saintly. It should make our souls tremble. She spoke of love as harsh and dreadful. No burlap banners in the sanctuary for her. She was the real deal.

I thought of that “us” when I read this account of the canonization process in the New Yorker [1]. The author follows the typical narrative that has emerged, that it is somehow strange that this woman who is understood as a champion of the left has been embraced by the conservative Cardinal-Archbishop of New York. Of course, Dorothy was no ordinary leftie, and Cardinal Dolan is more complicated than the designation conservative suggests. It does not surprise me in the least that he is championing her cause because I think he grasps the power of that “us.”

The article makes much of Dorothy’s radicalism, and surely she was radical. But, it does not see how Dorothy’s radicalism after her baptism was not ideological any longer because it was not rooted in an idea. It was rooted in an event, the passion, death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus. It was rooted in the person of Jesus whom Dorothy worshipped each morning at Mass and throughout the day in the poor with whom she came into contact. It was rooted in the community of faith, the Church, where we encounter the risen Lord still. Dorothy was not a conformist, she was a “radical,” precisely because she so obviously, so tenaciously and so heroically conformed herself to Christ.

Everyone wants a piece of Dorothy. Thus it has ever been with the saints – literally. We want their relics near us, we venerate those relics, we want to be close to them. Since the issue of Dorothy’s canonization caught the nation’s attention when Cardinal Dolan consulted with his brother bishops in Baltimore last month, both the Catholic Left and the Catholic Right claim her as one of their own.

A few thoughts for the Catholic Left to consider. Do you try and conform the Church it us, to our wishes and wants, or do you try and conform yourselves to Christ and the Church? Do you experience authority within the Church as liberating, which is exactly how Dorothy experienced it? Do you hold on to your solid, well-informed, liberal opinions more closely than the tradition of the Church? Do you reduce the faith to good works?

A few thoughts for the Catholic Right to consider. Do you recognize how counter-cultural Dorothy was? Do you let yourselves see what she saw, that one of the things that holds us back in our commitment to faith is this “dirty, rotten system”? Do you equate the faith with moral probity and conventional values? Do you look at sinners and see someone to dismiss or person with a future, even with the potential for sanctity in their future? Do you love the poor and make that your criterion for evaluating your own economic decisions and that of your society?

Dorothy had gone to God by the time Pope Benedict delivered his famous Christmas address to the Curia in 2005, in which he confronted the “hermeneutic of rupture” regarding Vatican II and proposed, instead, a “hermeneutic of reform,” emphasizing both continuity and discontinuity. Dorothy’s life could have been the Holy Father’s Exhibit A. I am not a scholar of Dorothy’s life, but I have read many of her collected letters. I do not discern an enormous difference between Dorothy before the Council and Dorothy after the Council in those letters. Certainly, she did not need to wait to read about the “people of God” in Lumen Gentium to recognize her baptismal call and its significance. She was certainly committed to social justice long before Gaudium et Spes was drafted. Robert Blair Kaiser has suggested that Vatican II “changed everything.” I do not see that it changed Dorothy.

To everyone the question looms: Would we have said “us” to Robert Cole? Here is the true radicalism of Dorothy Day. That may not be evident to a writer at the New Yorker. It may not be evident to those on the left or right who are trying to claim Dorothy as an adherent to their causes, rather than try and adhere their cause to Dorothy’s cause. It certainly is not evident to me when I am dismissive of others as I often am. But it is in that “us” that we discern Dorothy’s radicalism, the radicalism of total abandonment to Jesus Christ, the radicalism of total commitment to the poor, the radicalism of total allegiance to his Church, in sum, the radicalism of sanctity.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; christlike; radical; sainthood
Particularly interesting are the comments at the end - worth a click to the link, IMHO.


1 posted on 12/06/2012 10:00:54 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o
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To: markomalley; Salvation; WestwardHo; bibletruth; Tax-chick; BenKenobi; CynicalBear; goat granny; ...

Ping


2 posted on 12/06/2012 10:12:25 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child that's got his own." Billie Holiday / Arthur Herzog Jr)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
But, it does not see how Dorothy’s radicalism after her baptism was not ideological any longer because it was not rooted in an idea

I imagine Day still had "ideas" even after her baptism and many of these were radical.

Joining Cesar Chavez in his "cause" shows her radicalism was still very much alive.

3 posted on 12/06/2012 10:38:52 AM PST by what's up
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To: what's up
It calls to mind St. Augustine, who was an ex-Manichee but never totally escaped --- until Heaven, I suppose--- some of the distorting features of Mani.

Ah well. As Oscar Wilde said: "Every saint has a past. And every sinner has a future."

4 posted on 12/06/2012 11:07:03 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child that's got his own." Billie Holiday / Arthur Herzog Jr)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I could never equate or even think of the two as similar. Augustine rejected Manichaeism.

Day doesn't seem to have rejected her radicalism. The bohemian lifestyle, yes, but not the philosophy of Gov't.

5 posted on 12/06/2012 11:21:27 AM PST by what's up
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To: what's up
On tht I offer this as counter-evidence: Day's rejection of statism even in the form of Social Security:

We believe that social security legislation, now hailed as a great victory for the poor and for the worker, is a great defeat for Christianity. It is an acceptance of the Idea of force and compulsion. It is an acceptance of Cain's statement, on the part of the employer. "Am I my brother's keeper?" Since the employer can never be trusted to give a family wage, nor take care of the worker as he takes care of his machine when it is idle, the state must enter in and compel help on his part.

Of course, economists say that business cannot afford to act on Christian principles. It Is impractical, uneconomic. But it is generally coming to be accepted that such a degree of centralization as ours is impractical, and that there must be decentralization. In other words, business has made a mess of things, and the state has had to enter in to rescue the worker from starvation.

Of course, Pope Pius XI said that, when such a crisis came about, in unemployment, fire, flood, earthquake, etc., the state had to enter in and help.

But we in our generation have more and more come to consider the state as bountiful Uncle Sam. "Uncle Sam will take care of it all. The race question, the labor question, the unemployment question."

We will all be registered and tabulated and employed or put on a dole, and shunted from clinic to birth control clinic. "What right have people who have no work to have a baby?" How many poor Catholic mothers heard that during those grim years before the war!


6 posted on 12/06/2012 11:33:52 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child that's got his own." Billie Holiday / Arthur Herzog Jr)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Yesm, she was against SS because leaned toward being an anarchist.

She also refused to pay Federal tax.

She spoke out against capitalism and this is what she said she wanted society to be:

We would like to see a country made up of farming communes, agronomic universities, hospices, unions, cooperatives, small units of all those necessary institutions to be preserved, and a doing away with luxury in order to have the essential which is ownership of house and field and job, and the responsibility which goes with that ownership. We wish to abolish the proletariat state, rather than establish the dictatorship of the proletariat, abolish the wage system which provides men with luxuries but not the essentials.

She was a radical leftist...but more in the form of anarchy, not communism.

7 posted on 12/06/2012 11:59:48 AM PST by what's up
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Presed the button too fast.

Please ignore the spelling errors.

8 posted on 12/06/2012 12:09:31 PM PST by what's up
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To: what's up

Yes, that’s probably it. Not state-centered, but Anarchist. Not ideological, but Personalist. Not coerced or demanded, but Voluntary. And not Marxist, but Christ-centered.


9 posted on 12/06/2012 12:11:27 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child that's got his own." Billie Holiday / Arthur Herzog Jr)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
And not Marxist, but Christ-centered.

The doing away with luxury and eradication of a wage system Christ-centered? Really?

No, these are Marxist ideas. But worked out into an anarchist framework instead of communist (no central Gov't).

10 posted on 12/06/2012 12:19:50 PM PST by what's up
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To: what's up
"The doing away with luxury and eradication of a wage system Christ-centered? Really?"

Sure, really: as long as it is voluntary and not controlled by the state and other coercive mechanisms.

This is not to say that a wage system,for instance, is immoral. It is not condemned in the Scriptures, which assumes wages, and demands just wages.

The Prophets of Israel, the Gospels, and the Fathers of the Church all condemn luxury, and, for that matter, covetousness and usury; which would certainly cut the legs off of modern captialism, powered as it is by advertising and consumer credit.

A free society which respects private property (which Day also supported) will also respect a diversity which makes room for distributism, communitarianism and even monasticism. Freedom would mean you can go and come with that, as you judge best.

11 posted on 12/06/2012 12:31:08 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child that's got his own." Billie Holiday / Arthur Herzog Jr)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
The Prophets of Israel, the Gospels, and the Fathers of the Church all condemn luxury

No,they did not condemn luxury in toto.

They only condemned luxury enjoyed at the expense of the poor. There are times in the Bible when God himself blesses beyond the essentials (condemned in the statement by Day).

Of course the Scripture assumes wages. To labor for a wage is moral. Eradication of a wage system is not Christ-centered but Marxist. To advocate a system where there would be no wage for labor is to advocate injustice which God abhors. And, no, Day doesn't says this would be voluntary. And only in utopian thinking (the thinking of anarchists) would one consider that it ever could be.

12 posted on 12/06/2012 1:39:37 PM PST by what's up
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To: what's up
They certainly did condemn luxuy, e.g. the rich man who ---unlike Lazarus who reposes with blessed Abraham --- is sent to hell: there's not a hint that he stole the money or acquired it by fraud, or even that he spent it for vices like drugs and whores. It's that he was not compassionate to Lazarus.

And what Jesus said about camels going through the eye of the needle: even if that meant going through a small gate into the city, they'd have to be divesed of all their cargoes before they got through. It was a warning: wach out! Don't make your salvation difficult!

A valuable warning against the acquisition of riches.

And don't get me started on usury!

13 posted on 12/06/2012 2:38:50 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child that's got his own." Billie Holiday / Arthur Herzog Jr)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I already addressed this.

They did not condemn luxury completely.

Of course they did when it was being used to exploit the poor. However, as I said God also blesses with plenty. Other Scriptures can be cited supporting this.

You seem to be missing the point.

14 posted on 12/06/2012 2:53:24 PM PST by what's up
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To: what's up
Well, the condemnation didn't just extend to those who *exploited* the poor. It extended also to those who simply *ignored* them. To keep your grip on luxuries in the face of so many who lack necessities, is to have a grip that puts your soul in mortal danger.

I look to myself on that one. It's a hard examination of conscience, one which I am not comfortable about at all.

15 posted on 12/06/2012 3:16:34 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child that's got his own." Billie Holiday / Arthur Herzog Jr)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Reads as if she took many of her economic ideas from Chesterton. You know that Commmie Fink/s


16 posted on 12/06/2012 7:07:02 PM PST by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: what's up
1) She certainly was a voluntarist. In fact, most criticism of her is that she was too darned much so, i.e. she did not coerce even those close to her, let alone those who ran far-flung CW houses as they saw fit. She was the diametrical polar opposite of a dictator. She forced austerities on nobody except herself.

2) Her authority, which she had by example only, rested in this: that there was not an ace of difference between what she believed, what she wrote or spoke, and the way she lived her life. It was nothing but the gentle personalism of traditional Catholicism: personal obligation of looking after the needs of our brother, daily practice of the Works of Mercy.

And no skin off of your nose or anybody else's.

Exceptionally good journalist (or I could say "diarist") as well. ANybody would be enriched by reading her for twenty minutes a day. She is as good as bread.

17 posted on 12/07/2012 11:27:54 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child that's got his own." Billie Holiday / Arthur Herzog Jr)
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To: lastchance

:o)


18 posted on 12/07/2012 11:28:55 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child that's got his own." Billie Holiday / Arthur Herzog Jr)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thank you for finding and posting this.


19 posted on 12/07/2012 11:23:22 PM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: what's up

Yes,Dorothy Day called herself a “propagandist” and an “agitator.” She insisted that the early Christians’ and religious orders’ cooperative efforts were a form of “Catholic Communism.” She declared more than forty years after becoming a Catholic: “Fortunately, the Papal States were wrested from the Church in the last century, but there is still the problem of investment of papal funds. It is always a cheering thought to me that if we have good will and are still unable to find remedies for the economic abuses of our time, in our family, our parish, and the mighty church as a whole, God will take matters in hand and do the job for us. When I saw the Garibaldi mountains in British Columbia ... I said a prayer for his soul and blessed him for being the instrument of so mighty a work of God. May God use us!” (”Hutterite Communities,” “Catholic Worker” [CW], July-August 1969).
Despite Cardinal O’Connor’s claim that she left behind her Communist friends and beliefs, she did neither. She told Robert Coles (not “Cole”) that in her youth, most of her friends were “Communists and Socialists. (I think I called them radical friends in the section of ‘The Long Loneliness’ where I discuss my Chicago days.)” (Robert Coles, “Dorothy Day: A Radical Devotion,” 1987, p. 27). On April 9, 1959 she wrote, “My work in the labor field, and with the radical group was very much in accord with my conscience—that is why I still love them all” (”All the Way to Heaven: Selected Letters of Dorothy Day,” 2010, p. 252). She maintained a lifelong friendship with Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, who became the head of the Communist Party USA. In her diary (”The Duty of Delight,” 2011) Day notes on December 23, 1958: “visited Gurley Flynn and her sister who has been ill” (p. 248). In her September 16, 1964 diary entry, Day wrote: “Dreamed last night of writing speech for Gurley Flynn’s memorial service at Community Church next Tues. They called me up about it and I told them I would write a letter” (p. 361). Day’s letter praising Flynn was read publicly at the memorial service by CW Tom Cornell, and also published in the November 1964 CW as “Red Roses for Her.” Flynn had already had a State funeral in Moscow’s Red Square with Khrushchev present, as Carol Byrne notes in her essential “The Catholic Worker Movement (1933-1980): A Critical Analysis,” (2010, p. 6). Day also maintained a lifelong friendship with Mike Gold, a former “radical” boyfriend who became a columnist in “The Daily Worker.” For more details, see Carol Byrne’s book and its “Complete Supplementary Notes.” These notes are available at the blog “Dorothy Day Another Way.”


20 posted on 01/26/2013 2:59:07 PM PST by ubipetrusest
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To: what's up

As you observe, Augustine rejected Manichaeism. However, Day continued to associate with and present an unrealistic and sanitized account of those whose lives resembled her bohemian past. She tolerated and enabled sexual immorality at the Catholic Worker farms. When I visited Tivoli in 1971 I was puzzled and confused by the things I observed, and naively thought Dorothy must not be aware of the goings-on, such as a couple living together without benefit of clergy. But her diary (”The Duty of Delight,” 2011) reveals that she knew what was happening (pp. 419, 454), decided to sell the farm (p. 486), and then took 10 years to do so (p. 675).
In addition, Day allowed Ammon Hennacy to remain a “Catholic” Worker (he had become Catholic because Dorothy was Catholic) after he married outside the Catholic Church. Ironically, Joan Thomas, Ammon’s second wife, met him at the CW after Day had told her, “Oh, you must meet Ammon. He knows all about fasting. And he likes pretty girls”; Thomas found this “an extremely puzzling remark for a bona fide Christian woman” to make (Joan Thomas,”The Years of Grief and Laughter,” 1974, p. 7). Day eulogized him in “Ammon Hennacy: Non-Church’ Christian” (CW,February 1970).


21 posted on 01/26/2013 7:14:52 PM PST by ubipetrusest
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`


22 posted on 01/26/2013 7:30:48 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Justice and judgment are the foundation of His throne." Psalm 89:14)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

1)You claim that Day “forced austerities on nobody except herself.” Perhaps you are unaware of the famous “retreat” embraced by Day and given by Fr. John J. Hugo at the Catholic Worker many times (Carol Byrne, “The Catholic Worker Movement(1933-1980): A Critical Analysis,” 2010, pp. 232-238). The retreat—which urged austerities on the laity with no loopholes—did little good, according to longtime Catholic Worker Stanley Vishnewski in “Wings of the Dawn”(1984, pp.208-215). Day’s daughter Tamar had austerities forced on her and detested the retreat. The retreat was so controversial Hugo was “silenced” and the retreat called “Jansenistic in tendency” (William D. Miller, “Dorothy Day,” 1982, p. 340). When Day died, Fr. Hugo was to say the mass, but the funeral mass was said by then-Fr. Geoffrey Gneuhs, the CW chaplain, because Day’s daughter Tamar refused to attend with Hugo (R. G. Riegle, “Dorothy Day: Portraits by Those Who Knew Her,” 2003, p. 184,note 2). Day herself reneged in later life—the retreat inveighed against listening to the radio and having linoleum—and reports in her diary listening to radio and watching television programs (pp. 647, 650, 659) and accepting half a bottle of port (p. 658).
2) As for Day’s “authority, which she had by example only,” Day’s co-workers would disagree. CW Tom Cornell said, “[We] Let everyone know that if they talked to reporters, that would be against Dorothy’s will, which is tantamount to saying good-bye. (We had no redress, no committees or any of that shit. If you’re out, you’re out)” (R. Riegle Troester, ed., “Voices From the Catholic Worker,” 1993, p. 40). Similarly, Michael Harrington stated that Day was the head of the CW, and after people engaged in a discussion, she did what she wanted (Maurice Isserman, “The Other American: The Untold Life of Michael Harrington,” 2000, p. 73).
Dear me, you may feel “she is as good as bread,” but some who read her diary feel the need of a stiff drink!


23 posted on 01/26/2013 9:21:21 PM PST by ubipetrusest
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To: ubipetrusest
In my opinion, Dorothy Dy had a genius for friendship. She maintained warm, lifelong friendships with Russian emigres in New York who had fled Lenin and Stalin and were fiercely anticommunist, and with her old Red comrades for whom she prayed at Mass, and offered a rosary every day of her life. Her influence was to draw them toward the Lord: they pulled her away from Him.

Keep in mind that anyone can become a Catholic, from whatever background, if he or she is respondng to divine grace. The Church has patriarchalists transformed by the Gospel, and feminists transformed by the Gospel. Monarchists and democratic/republicans. Leftists and Rightists.. What matters is not "Left" or "Right". What matters is the transformation.

As for Day's faults --- all sinners have them, and that means everyone. Dorothy used to say, "You can go to hell by imitating the vices of saints." She also had a short fuse. On being told she ought to hold her temper, she remarked, "I hold more temper in 10 minutes than you hold in a lifetime."

She struggled. I would do better--- much, much beter --- if I struggled as well as she did.

Let me close with these thoughts:

Gerald Vann, O.P. wrote in his book *The Heart of Man* (Ch. III) that “where there is obvious wickedness, we must protest and fight against the external crime, indeed, but we can never judge of [another person’s interior] sin because we can never know the human heart.”

As Vatican II’s constitution *Gaudium et Spes* stated (in Section 28), “[God] forbids us to make judgments about the internal guilt of anyone.”

In any case, I will wait serenely to see if she gets her two miracles. That should settle things.

24 posted on 01/29/2013 9:05:20 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Where sin abounds, grace superabounds." - Romans 5:20)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Dear me, you have not responded to the issues in my post, just stated obvious things—about baptism, not judging someone’s interior state, who may convert—that are not being questioned.

If you read what Dorothy Day wrote, you might discover that her “transformation” from Marxism was incomplete. Would that you had read Day’s diary (”The Duty of Delight,” 2011, p. 43), where she notes that her Russian friend Helen Iswolsky “has said I was too kind to the Communists in my book [”From Union Square to Rome”] and the attitude taken by our opponents is that we do not realize what they are capable of.” Years later Day wrote about “what they are capable of”: “These men were animated by the love of brother and this we must believe though their ends meant the seizure of power, and the building of mighty armies, the compulsion of concentration camps, the forced labor and torture and killing of tens of thousands, even millions”(”Catholic Worker” [CW], May 1951).

Similarly, Day’s co-worker Tom Cornell in “Voices from the Catholic Worker” (1993, p. 78) states that Day did not like Baroness Catherine de Hueck Doherty’s “lapses into anti-Sovietism at all.” The Baroness was the Russian emigre who founded Madonna House in Combermere, Ontario, and is a Servant of God.

True, Day prayed for the salvation of her prominent Communist friends Rayna Proehme, Mike Gold, Anna Louise Strong, and Elizabeth Gurley Flynn throughout her life. She also praised their support of the Soviet Union (and overlooked their efforts to foment violent revolution) repeatedly in the CW, often without identifying their positions in the Party. For example, Gurley Flynn was one of the three founders of the USA Communist Party and became its head. Both she and Proehme received state funerals in Moscow.

Day’s praise of the political stands of these committed Communist friends should not be a surprise, given her remark that “When people are standing up for our present rotten system, they are being worse than Communists, it seems to me” (”Duty of Delight,” p. 98) and her treating Lenin, “who had nowhere to lay his head,” and “Papa Marx” as secular saints in the April 1948 CW.

Having posted this “kinda [confusing] article from the *bad* NCR”—which is now publicly identified as a “non-Catholic” publication by Bishop Finn, in whose jurisdiction it is—please rest serenely as you await the required miracles for the canonization of the woman one blogger calls “Dotty Day.”


25 posted on 02/05/2013 12:15:07 PM PST by ubipetrusest (Dorothy Day, Catholic, Communism)
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To: ubipetrusest

Thanks. I’ll pray. You, too.


26 posted on 02/05/2013 1:00:44 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("You can be on the right track and still get hit by a train.")
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To: ubipetrusest
P.s. I do know the bad NCR is bad; I've thought so and said so for over 30 years --- said so more frequently and more trenchantly than Bishop Finn, by the way--- but everything in there isn't bad. For instance John Allen is usually good (and I often wonder what he's doing there and not with the other NCR.) :o)

One of the things I find challenging in the Lives of Saints and Blesseds is their struggle with being men (or women) of their age: Chrysostom could have been called with some justice an anti-Semite; Augustine an incompletely-converted Manichee or a proto-Calvinist; Charles de Foucauld a French imperialist (up to the end: had a cache of French military weapons in his hemitage at the time of his death, 1916); Cyril of Alexandria a mobocrat; Josemaria Escriva a Fascist; Thomas More a burner of heretics; John Paul II a naive gull of corrupt clergy --- I could go on.

I love all these men. They distanced themselves slowly and imperfectly from the sins of their age. They can be faulted for where they came from. I am far more interested in where they were going.

Here I say Finis. Peace to you. Peace to the soul of Dorothy Day.

27 posted on 02/05/2013 1:36:27 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("You can be on the right track and still get hit by a train.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Yes,I do pray and will continue to pray for the millions starved to death and executed brutally by the Communists who Day idolized. May they rest in peace.


28 posted on 02/06/2013 1:44:02 PM PST by ubipetrusest (Dorothy Day, Catholic, Communism)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

In closing, I note that again you shift from the subject (Day) to others. As “what’s up” remarked in post 14, “You seem to be missing the point.” Your comments confuse the issue. For example, it’s nice to know you believe (post 11) the wage system is “not immoral” or “condemned”—it’s too bad that neither Day nor Peter Maurin would share your view.

As Carol Byrne points out in “Complete Supplementary Notes to ‘The Catholic Worker [CW} Movement (1933-1980): A Critical Analysis,’’ for page 152:

Day stated that “Peter shocked people by calling for an ‘abolition of the wage system’” in CW May 1953.In CW April 1963, Day quoted Peter Maurin who reiterated the expression “fire the bosses” and also “Work not Wages”, “Labour is not a commodity to be bought and sold”.

Byrne’s notes can be read online at “Dorothy Day Another Way.”


29 posted on 02/06/2013 3:54:14 PM PST by ubipetrusest (Dorothy Day, Catholic, Communism, Peter Maurin, wages)
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To: ubipetrusest
Day continued to associate with and present an unrealistic and sanitized account of those whose lives resembled her bohemian past.

I don't see Day as ever repentent of her damaging beliefs. Far from it.

Like Jane Fonda...if I saw evidence that she now worked in favor of freedom, I would believe she was truly repentant. But this was not so with either Fonda or Day.

There's something very wrong with the idolization of Day. Way too many Catholics idolize the poor (which has led to their social justice politics) much like the communists idolized or romanticized the peasantry. I wish they regarded freedom with the same sentiment. Putting Day up as a saint only amplifies that serious mistake. Thanks for your posts.

30 posted on 02/16/2013 12:37:10 PM PST by what's up
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To: what's up

I agree that Day never abandoned her Communist beliefs, and most of those supporting her cause—which was introduced with a denial of this key fact—still will not admit the error.Day remained unrepentant, just like “Hanoi Jane” Fonda, who richly deserves that title. “Moscow Mary” was Day’s. Thanks for your posts.


31 posted on 02/16/2013 7:50:08 PM PST by ubipetrusest ("Ubi Petrus, ibi Ecclesia," Dorothy Day Jane Fonda)
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