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Mormon church wants more compassion for gays
Fox News ^ | December 6, 2012

Posted on 12/07/2012 7:55:00 AM PST by greyfoxx39

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To: Elsie; Admin Moderator

Why are you pinging me with this nonsense?

I never asked to be on your ‘ping list’ so take me off right now!


51 posted on 12/08/2012 7:20:07 AM PST by panaxanax
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To: panaxanax

Eventually you’d hope that our society would mature enough that Mormon-baiting would go the way of Jew-baiting. That said, this thread could be interesting.

I was talking to a homosexual Christian who wanted to know if God had made a mistake with him. The issue of homosexuality goes to the heart of who we are and the nature of God.

1. Can God make mistakes?
2. If he can then can he still be God?
3. If he cannot how do we explain homosexuality, mental illness, physical disability, etc.?
4. If we’re pure creations of God then doesn’t it follow that the Creator is responsible for his creation?

If that is the case then you cannot blame the creation.

This then points to a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature, agency and divinity.

When Paul speaks of looking through a glass darkly, he isn’t talking about a telescope, but a mirror. As Christians we look upon the who we may be or who we’ve forgotten to be. We are a work in progress and like Christ can grow from grace to grace.

Furthermore, if, as LDS teach, we are eternal intelligences then we truly can have choice and agency. It is only under such circumstance as this that sin and accountability make sense.

Since all major Christian groups have some sense of theosis (deification/divinization) and it is a doctrine that fits the Biblical narrative, then human beings may have a divine nature and origin. Moreso, the doctrine of theosis would indicate that being made in the image and likeness of God means more than we currently understand it.

This then points out errors in the common Christian understanding of death, eternity, Heaven, Hell, the Atonement, the Resurrection, and God.

If there is no salvation for homosexuals, then a lot of Christian thought is moot.


52 posted on 12/08/2012 11:24:37 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD; panaxanax; greyfoxx39; Godzilla; All
Since all major Christian groups have some sense of theosis (deification/divinization) and it is a doctrine that fits the Biblical narrative, then human beings may have a divine nature and origin. Moreso, the doctrine of theosis would indicate that being made in the image and likeness of God means more than we currently understand it.This then points out errors in the common Christian understanding of death, eternity, Heaven, Hell, the Atonement, the Resurrection, and God. If there is no salvation for homosexuals, then a lot of Christian thought is moot. (1010rd)

Sorry, 1010...but deification among men was a unique event (found ONLY in Jesus Christ...unlike your "council of gods" made a man a god of this world and that, you, too, can become a fellow god...ridiculous).

Orthodox Bishop Kallistos (Timothy) Ware, Bishop of Diokleia, refutes the Mormon twisting of theosis:

"The Incarnation is a unique event. 'Deification,' on the Orthodox understanding, is to be interpreted in terms of the distinction between the divine essence and the divine energies. Human beings share by God's mercy in His energies but not in His essence, either in the present age or in the age to come. That is to say, in theosis the saints participate in the grace, power and glory of God, but they NEVER become God by essence." (cited in Ostling and Ostling, Mormon America, p. 311)

If you lookj at the early church fathers...they "made it clear that there are certain communicable attritubes that are consistent for God to impart to his creatures, such as holiness and immortality. At the same time, these fathers taught with equal clarity that there were certain unique, incommunicable attributes that would forever distinguish the believer from the God of the Bible...Among these is the attribute of self-existence, or what is technically called aseity. That is, God is not a contingent being, depending on anyone or anything for his existence...In short, the early fathers were all strict monotheists, the LDS polytheists." (Alan W. Gomes, "The Value of Historical Theology for Apologetics," Reasons for Faith, 2007, pp. 177-178)

If there is no salvation for homosexuals, then a lot of Christian thought is moot. (1010rd)

You know, you Mormons must get so bogged down in reading other "standard works" -- new Mormon "scriptures" -- you don't have time to get the Bible down pat...Have you not read:

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you WERE. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

What? Are you more authoritative than the apostle Paul, 1010?

The good news above is that...
(1) The Corinthian church had FORMER homosexuals in their midst -- along with ex-whatever else is in the above "laundry list";
(2) Homosexual sin isn't "more sinful" than say, heterosexual sex outside of marriage, drunkenness, or greediness.

The bad news?

Outside of Jesus Christ covering people's such sinful lifestyles and people trusting in His blood much the ways the Jews trusted in the Passover lamb's blood to prevent the deaths of their firstborn, ALL such sin is deserving of "lockouts" from God's kingdom.

Therefore...there is salvation for homosexuals...just as there is any other sin...

But if alcoholics, for example, are going to remain stubborn...and simply conclude they were "born that way..." and if alcoholic activists go on a "alcoholic rights" rampage and claim it's all somehow conducive with Christianity...then there'd be some big surprises coming for such folks.

So the issue really isn't the sin now is it? It's really more the repentance -- and contrasting resistant stubbornness about the sin -- isn't it?

I mean, would your church really tolerate an alcoholics' rights movement in your midst?

And would you sanction that...as your last statement infers that you do for homosexuality immorality?

53 posted on 12/08/2012 3:09:51 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: 1010RD
Eventually you’d hope that our society would mature enough that Mormon-baiting would go the way of Jew-baiting. That said, this thread could be interesting.

If you're not catching anything; you may be using the wrong bait!



54 posted on 12/08/2012 3:10:04 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 1010RD
If there is no salvation for homosexuals, then a lot of Christian thought is moot.

If there IS salvation for Murderers; then a lot of MORMON blather is moot.

55 posted on 12/08/2012 3:12:13 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 1010RD; greyfoxx39; Elsie; All
I was talking to a homosexual Christian who wanted to know if God had made a mistake with him. The issue of homosexuality goes to the heart of who we are and the nature of God.

We Christians can see where the Mormon church is going with their "sexuality is not a choice" Web site nonsense.

The Mormon church is trying to say: "Polygamy, too, is not a sexual choice. God told us to go that way. God told Joseph and all the Mormon 'prophets' thru 1945 to go that way. God even tells our men today, if they marry more than one wife in the temple after the first wife dies, that eternal polygamy and eternal sex isn't a 'choice' as well."

56 posted on 12/08/2012 3:14:20 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: 1010RD; All
1. Can God make mistakes?
2. If he can then can he still be God?
3. If he cannot how do we explain homosexuality, mental illness, physical disability, etc.?
4. If we’re pure creations of God then doesn’t it follow that the Creator is responsible for his creation?
If that is the case then you cannot blame the creation.
This then points to a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature, agency and divinity.

Wow, 1010...so you're blaming God for men's consequential choices?

Hmmm...so you also conclude:

1. Can God make mistakes?
2. If he can then can he still be God?
3. If he cannot how do we explain Satan and his angels?
4. If we’re pure creations of God then doesn’t it follow that the Creator is responsible for his angelic mutiny?

If that is the case then you cannot blame Satan and his minions.

Really, 1010???

57 posted on 12/08/2012 3:31:15 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Elsie

I’m no expert, but ... Everything I’ve read about Brigham Young, including by Mormons, indicates he was a wife-stealer, a bloody-handed man, and a racist. I hope I never meet such a man.


58 posted on 12/08/2012 3:36:36 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (C'est la vie.)
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To: Colofornian
It's not my Council of Gods, nor is it my Church. Deification isn't a unique event, but one in which all Christians can participate. It is found in Greek Orthodoxy (BTW, Bishop Kallistos is a titular Bishop in a "dead diocese" one that no longer functionally exists) and called Theosis, Catholicism and called Divinization, some form exists in Protestantism, but is deemphasized except in the Methodists and Lutherans. Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote, "He became like human beings, so that we would be like him." This is in keeping with the clear teachings of both Athanasius as well as the Apostle Paul. Here's Paul's take on it: (Young's Literal Translation)... and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ -- if, indeed, we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together. Here are some other translations of the same verse: http://bible.cc/romans/8-17.htm Here's the critical Greek: http://biblesuite.com/greek/sundoxastho_men_4888.htm It too has just a singular use: συνδοξασθῶμεν (syndoxasthōmen) — 1 Occurrence Romans 8:17 V-ASP-1P BIB: ἵνα καὶ συνδοξασθῶμεν NAS: that we may also be glorified with [Him]. KJV: we may be also glorified together. INT: that also we might be glorified together The point isn't that the LDS and Trinitarian Christians share they very same view on Theosis, but that they all the original branches have some form of it. Protestants, as schismatic Catholics, have largely broken away from Deification or Divinzation. The Greek and Russian Orthodox along with Catholics and other Trinitarians would not be able to join with their idea of God as he doesn't have that ability. This despite the fact that Jesus Christ took his body with him to Heaven and that Stephen saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God. They emphasize a different God than the God of the LDS which God man is made in the image and likeness. Trinitarians also don't fundamentally understand the Garden in Eden experience the same way the LDS do. So you'd expect there to be major differences between the two. The point is that they share much doctrine that is clearly Christian.
59 posted on 12/08/2012 4:18:24 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
The point is that they share much doctrine that is clearly Christian.

So?

It ain't they stuff they share; but the stuff they DON't that makes MORMONism a heresy.

60 posted on 12/08/2012 7:17:10 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 1010RD; All
It's not my Council of Gods... (1010rd)

Sure it is. You're the closet Mormon from Illinois on board here...the one who doesn't like to tout he is such.

I don't see other FR religionists touting Joseph Smith and his "council of gods." Do you?

Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote, "He became like human beings, so that we would be like him." (1010rd)

Godliness and Christlikeness is not becoming LORD of your own world and having beings worship you and pray to you.

At times in the Bible, people began to worship perfect angels and the angels flatly told them, "Don't do it."

Are you claiming because we can be gracious and merciful and that God is Gracious and Merciful, we are "gods?" The communicable attributes of God are ones we tend to ALREADY have -- simply in a much lesser degree. I suppose you think then, that we are divine ALREADY!

if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ (1010rd)

Did you ever stop to think that, yes, heirs can receive something of great value of inheritance...but that they don't change essence? A family dog can inherit much left to him when his owner dies; that doesn't mean he gets to eventually become a human being.

Here's Paul's take on it: (Young's Literal Translation)... and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ -- if, indeed, we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together. Here are some other translations of the same verse: http://bible.cc/romans/8-17.htm Here's the critical Greek: http://biblesuite.com/greek/sundoxastho_men_4888.htm It too has just a singular use: συνδοξασθῶμεν (syndoxasthōmen) — 1 Occurrence Romans 8:17 V-ASP-1P BIB: ἵνα καὶ συνδοξασθῶμεν NAS: that we may also be glorified with [Him]. KJV: we may be also glorified together. INT: that also we might be glorified together. (1010rd)

You know, 1010, we've been over this particular ground (Romans 8) once before...I'll bold-face Romans 8:17 below so you can actually glean something this go-round:

Here's what I said back then:
Key Q: Is it the obedience of the son that nets a son his inheritance from his father? Not usually. Oh sure, the disobedience of a son may "disqualify" him for the inheritance, but being an heir means receiving an inheritance based upon relationship (sonship), not twisting it like 1010RD has done. [And, of course, as I said, a true son truly obeys...but that's not the source of what we receive -- like Bible-spinners like 1010RD wants to accomplish]

As inheritances go in real life, so it was in the apostle Paul's world:

Romans 4:14: For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless...
Gal. 3:18: For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
Heb. 9:15: For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Now who did the "qualification" for what we inherit -- God or manWhen John 1:12 makes it quite clear that the Father gave authority to us to become his sons. Just as sons do in earthly life, the Father has set it up to allow His sons to likewise receive an inheritance:
Romans 8:17: Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
Finally, just to underscore who does the qualifying -- just to set slippery 1010RD's contentions, God does. [Yes, a disobedient son can disqualify himself, but that doesn't mean "qualifications" for eternal life/exaltation belong to man:

Col. 1:12: ...giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.

********************

ALL: Lds promote that they are "children of God" and that we are heirs. But heirs don't have to boast some long "to DO" checklist to become heirs -- they simply are to BE children of God.

Like any heir, I'm an heir by His death [or did you think you could become an heir & gain a "testimony" only by His life???] and by His ensuing gift to me...NOT an heir based upon...
...my works,
...my obedience,
...my self-promotional worthiness,
...my commandment-keeping,
...my bishop-graded temple recommend,
...my Word-of-wisdom keeping,
...my exaltation checklist,
...who I marry,
...if I marry,
...and all the other plural "My-s" I can ever list--as if my life was to center on... ..me
...or as if all my good works were primarily or unconsciously done to boomering back on my bootstraps to kick me into divinity...
...rather than simply to love the One I serve.

LDS: join us in concluding that you could never do all you could do -- including love as Jesus loves -- in order to coax God's grace to eventually kick in (2 Nephi 25:23)

(Join us in trying to stop manipulating how God thinks about you -- He already knows us perfectly -- and a temple recommend checklist is mere religiosity -- not a relationship with the true Jesus)

Do you rejoice with the truth that he who believes in Jesus HAS eternal life -- not just WILL have -- but has it NOW? (John 3:36; 5:24; 17:3; 1 John 5:10-13).

Compare all this to Joseph Smith and Smith disciples like 1010rd:

"...[The righteous who have died] shall rise again to dwell in everlasting BURNINGS in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the SAME power, the same glory, and the SAME exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before." (Joseph Smith, Teachings of Presidents: Joseph Smith, pp. 221-222, 2007, quoting History of the Church, 6:306)

Smith's above is TOTAL ARROGANCE, HUBRIS, AND PRIDE

They emphasize a different God than the God of the LDS which God man is made in the image and likeness. (1010RD)

Yeah, 1010, Christians DO have a "different God" than the Mormons. (Glad you concede that!)

Funny how you take God's physical appearance as literal...and yet Mormons say God doesn't have literal blood.

And if Adam was made in God's image, then I suppose your wife & daughters & other women weren't made in God's image, eh? Are you sexist in that regard?

What do you do with verses like John 4:24 and Isaiah 31:3...just erase them from your Bible? But the Egyptians are mere mortals and not God; their horses are flesh and not spirit. (Isaiah 31:3)

61 posted on 12/08/2012 8:16:15 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian; All; 1010RD
ALL: Since 1010rd was citing the common Mormon MISinterpretations of what being an "heir" of Heavenly Father includes...
...which, btw, BIBLICALLY is sharing in God's RICHES in His glorious kingdom [see 1 Corinthians 3:21-23 for details on that]...
...I quoted Joseph Smith in my last post...which shows how ridiculous Smith waxed away on this subject.

Here, I'll repeat that quote:

"...[The righteous who have died] shall rise again to dwell in everlasting BURNINGS in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the SAME power, the same glory, and the SAME exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before." (Joseph Smith, Teachings of Presidents: Joseph Smith, pp. 221-222, 2007, quoting History of the Church, 6:306)

Did you catch that phrase, "everlasting burnings?"

Sounds a bit like hell, eh?

Of all the teachings that was most horrific about what Smith taught, this was the topper...: "...you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves...going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one...from exaltation to exaltation, until you...are able to dwell... (pp. 346-347)

Well, "until you...are able to dwell" where? WHERE were the "ghost-lights" -- the demon-lights of Smith telling him where he & his followers would dwell??? It's right there on p. 347: "until you...are able to dwell in everlasting BURNINGS." Whoaaa.

Smith must have felt the guilt gnawing at him from no assurance of forgiveness of sins; but he wouldn't let go of his "everlasting burnings" teaching late in life: "Those who have done wrong always have that wrong gnawing them. Immortality dwells in everlasting BURNINGS." (ToPJS, p. 367)

These spirits craving their own "immortality" as false gods wouldn't let go of Smith...and actually occasionally told him the truth...as they did about "everlasting burnings"...They had the last laugh at Smith's -- and his followers' -- expense.

If you think I made up these quotes, look them up for yourselves...and leave this "spirit world" religion that is more obsessed with the dead than ANY religion ever!!! Run! Sprint!

62 posted on 12/08/2012 9:03:57 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

The stunt Mormon....


63 posted on 12/08/2012 9:05:44 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Colofornian
I don't see other FR religionists touting Joseph Smith and his "council of gods." Do you?

Oh even COMMENTING on my reply #41!!

64 posted on 12/09/2012 3:58:11 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
Smith's above is TOTAL ARROGANCE, HUBRIS, AND PRIDE

Now now - isn't this a harsh judgement of the poor man?


 
 

JESUS: Hey Smith! Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But....

65 posted on 12/09/2012 3:59:42 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
If you think I made up these quotes, look them up for yourselves...and leave this "spirit world" religion that is more obsessed with the dead than ANY religion ever!!! Run! Sprint!


Ezekiel 3:17-19

“Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me.

If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked person shall die for his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.

But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die for his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul.

 

Romans 16:17

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.


But LORD!  It's mighty hard to avoid them; yet at the same time to WARN them!


Ephesians 6:12 

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

2 Corinthians 2:11

So that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs.

 


Deuteronomy 30:11-20

The Choice of Life and Death

 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 

It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 

Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 

But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.

 

 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil.  If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you today,

by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply,

and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 

But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them,  I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish.

You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. 

 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse.

Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,  loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him,

for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”

 

66 posted on 12/09/2012 4:17:39 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Zakeet; Tennessee Nana; aMorePerfectUnion; Godzilla; fishtank; metmom; ..
No mormon has tried to explain to me exactly WHY God would be bound by their manmade rituals.

It must be that THEIR "god" was a weakling human that had to work his way up to "divinity" by scoring higher on the "Be a god in one easy lesson" test than his peers, (also weakling humans)....therefore, their god takes orders given in their temples by the way of handshakes and chants from the chosen mortals of mormondom.

Your post #62 HERE bears repeating often, especially this excerpt:

*************************************

ALL: Lds promote that they are "children of God" and that we are heirs. But heirs don't have to boast some long "to DO" checklist to become heirs -- they simply are to BE children of God.

Like any heir, I'm an heir by His death [or did you think you could become an heir & gain a "testimony" only by His life???] and by His ensuing gift to me...

NOT an heir based upon...
...my works,
...my obedience,
...my self-promotional worthiness,
...my commandment-keeping,
...my bishop-graded temple recommend,
...my Word-of-wisdom keeping,
...my exaltation checklist,
...who I marry,
...if I marry,
...and all the other plural "My-s" I can ever list--as if my life was to center on... ..me
...or as if all my good works were primarily or unconsciously done to boomering back on my bootstraps to kick me into divinity...
...rather than simply to love the One I serve.

LDS: join us in concluding that you could never do all you could do -- including love as Jesus loves -- in order to coax God's grace to eventually kick in (2 Nephi 25:23)

67 posted on 12/09/2012 8:29:41 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Ann Romney "ascending to the White House was their destiny."http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics)
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To: Elsie

SCORE

Hornets 1
Crickets 0


68 posted on 12/09/2012 1:38:20 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

?


69 posted on 12/10/2012 11:00:22 AM PST by BlueMoose
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To: panaxanax
People that post this nonsense should be ashamed.
70 posted on 12/10/2012 11:04:56 AM PST by BlueMoose
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To: BlueMoose

Reply 44


71 posted on 12/10/2012 11:15:49 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: BlueMoose

Ashamed?

Of WHAT??

Pointing out HERESY???


72 posted on 12/10/2012 11:16:54 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: BlueMoose

I agree, the subject of this article is nonsense.


73 posted on 12/10/2012 11:48:27 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22

Two responses so far:

two irate MORMONs that their attention was drawn to quotes from a MORMON prophet.


74 posted on 12/10/2012 2:58:25 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ejonesie22
 Send FReep Mail to restornu to get [ON] or [OFF] the LDS Ping List

75 posted on 12/10/2012 2:59:33 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
2...


out of 75!

76 posted on 12/10/2012 3:01:36 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
two irate MORMONs that their attention was drawn to quotes from a MORMON prophet.

source please.

77 posted on 12/10/2012 3:40:29 PM PST by BlueMoose
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To: Texan Tory

Amen, very well said, and according to Chrst’s teachings and His Spirit.


78 posted on 12/10/2012 4:39:59 PM PST by Jeff Head
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To: BlueMoose

Sadly, for some of those who do, there is none.

In the mean time, we can rejoice in our Lord Jesus and that His atonement is more than strong enough for all who, “come unto Him,” as he bids, even in their weakness, knowing that if the endure to the end...even with such feelings/temptations as these, they will find full joy in the end in His redemption, as He as promised.


79 posted on 12/10/2012 4:54:46 PM PST by Jeff Head
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To: BlueMoose

#51 and a private mail.


80 posted on 12/10/2012 5:02:48 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Jeff Head
In the mean time, we can rejoice in our Lord Jesus and that His atonement is more than strong enough for all who, “come unto Him,” as he bids, even in their weakness, knowing that if the endure to the end...even with such feelings/temptations as these, they will find full joy in the end in His redemption, as He as promised.

If you can get past Joseph Smith and if you're one of the 15% or so of MORMONs with a Temple Recommend.

(And, if a female; your husband decides to call you out.)


 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."
 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321
 
 
"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."
- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88
 
 
"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
 
 
There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
 
 
"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
 
 
 
"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670
 


They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
 Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

81 posted on 12/10/2012 5:05:40 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Jeff Head; BlueMoose; greyfoxx39
In the mean time, we can rejoice in our Lord Jesus and that His atonement is more than strong enough for all who, “come unto Him,” as he bids, even in their weakness, knowing that if the endure to the end...even with such feelings/temptations as these, they will find full joy in the end in His redemption, as He as promised.

(Did this promise apply to Pharisees who remained "stuck" in their ritualism & legalism?)

82 posted on 12/10/2012 6:36:28 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: panaxanax

This is a public forum, why are you agitated, just ignore the ping.


83 posted on 12/10/2012 8:54:44 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Jeff Head
Jeff next time you see Bishop Vickery say hello from his cousin in Alaska
84 posted on 12/11/2012 5:16:10 AM PST by BlueMoose
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To: Jeff Head
Jeff next time you see Bishop Vickery say hello from his cousin in Alaska
85 posted on 12/11/2012 5:16:38 AM PST by BlueMoose
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To: Colofornian

Colo, if a Pharisee remained “stuck” in their ritual ism and did not “Come unto Him,” meaning Christ Jesus, the I think the answer to you question is obvious.

That is why I put it into my comment that we all must “Come unto Him,” as He bid us.


86 posted on 12/11/2012 9:19:56 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: BlueMoose

Will do. My wife and I are down in Texas, having attended the funeral and burial of my dear older brother, Lee, who was a living example of what a good Christian man, husband, father, grandfather and citizen should be.

We are helping the family with his affairs before returning to Idaho.

For a GREAT example of his testimony of Christ in his terminally ill condition, please watch his testimony:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=432518370126050


87 posted on 12/11/2012 9:24:41 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Elsie
Did you get this in a private mail ? Well I guess will never know .
88 posted on 12/13/2012 4:27:25 PM PST by BlueMoose
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To: BlueMoose

‘this’ what?


89 posted on 12/13/2012 8:29:08 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

The reply was to post # 65


90 posted on 12/13/2012 9:47:25 PM PST by BlueMoose
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To: BlueMoose

Ok; What about it?


91 posted on 12/14/2012 6:33:34 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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