Skip to comments.Handwringing about homosexuality
Posted on 12/10/2012 7:45:16 PM PST by ReformationFan
Christians are sometimes challenged as to why we so strongly oppose the normalization of homosexual behavior. After all, there are worse sins and more imminent threats to national security.
Before I begin my answer, as I try to say whenever I write about this topic, the biblical view concerns homosexual acts not homosexual people. The current paradigm that some are "born gay" seems to be less empirical than political. It's a weapon used to stifle discussion by intentionally confusing disapproval of a practice with hatred for a person. But even if people are born attracted to the same sex, they're still people. They are free moral agents having control of their urges. The ethical question stands.
So here's how many Christians think about this, and why we're so upset about the cultural slide toward acceptance of homosexual acts. In his letter to the Romans, Paul begins his "good news" by describing the quicksand of paganism:
... they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the
(Excerpt) Read more at renewamerica.com ...
"From this, I find three reasons that Christians should lovingly and confidently resist the mainstreaming of homosexual acts. The first is that we want to glorify God, and any sin dishonors God. The second is that we love people and don't want to see them disgraced, much less lost eternally in hell. Finally, we understand that this issue is not merely about two consenting adults in the privacy of their bedroom. This is about God's patience with a society running out."
I am anything but an expert on the Bible but somewhere the Apostle Paul says something like “such will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven”. He is speaking of homosexuality.
I guess it could have been one of the other Apostles but I think it was Paul.
That is actually a very strong statement.
It’s Paul. The passage is 1 Corinthians 6:9-11-
“After all, there are worse sins and more imminent threats to national security.”
I have some doubts about this statement. On the latter part, it is blatantly obvious that the homosexual agenda is another facet of the international left, which has been seeking the overthrow of America since the end of WWI, so not even a secular patriot could support it. On the former, most sins have as their chief victim either the sinner or other people. God termed homosexuality an abomination precisely because it is a slap in His face- it is the same as telling Him that being created male and female, a part of His design, is wrong. Engaging in these acts, condoning them, or otherwise trying to accommodate them, is essentially an act of supreme contempt for the Supreme Being. That’s pretty much asking for eternal damnation....
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It has seemed to me for some time that there is a great lesson about homosexuality. If a man is born with no legs, he has two choices. He can hate God for not making him normal, or he can turn to God for comfort and offer up his sufferings for the betterment of God’s peoples. The same is true for someone who is born with an unnatural love for the same sex. He or she can offer up the problem (as we all must do), by remaining chaste and offering it to God as a sacrifice for the betterment of humanity. Great blessings would rain upon those who choose the law of God.
However when they go out of their way to flaunt their sinfulness in public, they should expect backlash.
Remember, the queers are less than 4% of the population.
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but rather reprove them; for it is a shame even to speak of those things done of them in secret./
Use to be my tag line... Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
No one is born a murderer or a thief or perverted. That is an election of will. Now you can be born to a mental illness such as schizophrenia or phobic mania but not perverted anal sex or homosexual oral sex . These are abominations to God and are very sick humans.If your child is taught about homosexual acts in school, file charges immediately with the police in your community and sue the school district for pornographic discussions with a minor. These poor sick people need prison , not a “marriage” certificate. Can you image the child abuse of two of these sick adults in a “marriage”? Even the liberal Supreme court “justice” Roberts will annihilate this sick perversion and I can’t wait!!
That is why liberal Christians hate Paul! They singled him out for scorn because of his rejection of sexual sin. They know better. : )
Even the liberal Supreme court justice Roberts will annihilate this sick perversion and I cant wait!!
Maybe it’s an abomination precisely because it won’t shut up. Once out of the closet, it’s in everyone’s faces and on the attack. Like opening up the lions’ cages at the zoo in the interest of “liberty”. The kitties aren’t going be satisfied to stroll around admiring the neighborhood scenery.
Not much different than the ROP.
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When speakn of homosexuals, take away the religous angle and simply say, “It is not reproductive”. End of discussion.
They are Helbent on imposing their perverted agenda on the rest of us, the overwhelming majority - in other words, normal people. It has nothing to do with privacy, it has to do with Natural Law.
No handwringing on my part. And my opposition doesn’t necessarily have to do with religion. It has to do with what the perverts themselves do... play in their poop, and prey on children. Sicko degenerates.
From the beginning, God created the male and female as uniquely compatible and complimentary, and only joined them in the sanctified sexual union of marriage. (Gn. 1:26,27; 2:18-24; 1Cor. 11:8-12; Eph. 5:31) All sexual relations with others outside that bond are revealed to be fornication, which is unconditionally (regardless of motive or circumstance) prohibited and condemned.
Thus pro-homosexual apologists have spent an inordinate amount of effort seeking to negate the Biblical condemnation of homosex, and to find sanction for the same, forcing sex into passages it does not belong in.
Consistent use of certain hermeneutics and logic employed by pro-homosexual apologists could also work to disallow the immutability of most any moral command (as most had “aggravating circumstances” in their establishment, and often, as with illicit sex laws, motive is irrelevant), and the Bible itself as a moral authority.
Like the harlot whose covetousness constrained her to assent to the destruction of a child rather than let her opposing claimant have it (1Ki. 3), the end result of pro-homosexual polemics is that they effectively reject the authority of the very source they seek to use for their own purposes.
Much more on this here, by God’s grace: http://peacebyjesus.tripod.com/homosex_versus_the_bible.html
Another reason I feel strongly about it is because I am against the sexual abuse of children.
I know that not all homosexuals abuse children. I know that some straights do.
However, the molestation rate is 10x higher among homosexuals. I say the RATE, not the actual incidents.
As homosexualization is normalized, abuse will become easier. Also access to children will increase as youth leaders, teachers, adoptive parents, etc., get full and free access to kids.
“It is not reproductive. End of discussion.”
I am afraid that can be used against marriage for the infertile or those past childbearing years.
So sick of this “Gay is sin” debate.
The Bible also says not to judge others.... whether gays get into heaven is not our call... its God’s call. Secondly, the Bible says to live your life with love and forgiveness. In fact, there are far more references to not judging others, to being a loving person...Jesus tending to the worst of sinners and forgave them.
There are many behaviors that I find to be so much more damaging to our life, culture, faith and freedom....homosexuality isn’t one of them...we are not so divine to fix this issue... I thing this is one we let God sort out.
OK.... flame away!!
Hey, the majority of Americans are just like your 'thinging'. I do not read from your words, you are the least bit concerned with what God said He would or would not do when individuals or a nations takes up the perverts agenda. Cause 'everybody is doing it' right? Well, you just like every other individual gets to make that choice, and each and every individual gets to give account for their choices. So don't wimp out when accounting time comes, take it like a 'man'.
Actually, we are required to tell those who reject God to repent. That means to change their ways. There is nothing biblical about ignoring the sin going on around us, anymore than we are allowed to ignore our own sin. ALL SIN is to be repented of.
There isn’t a debate about homosexual behavior being sin. It is. Take it up with God if you don’t like it. And we are to call all to repent and give their lives over to God.
God has already said that unrepentant sinners, including homosexuals, won’t go to heaven. The question isn’t if you sin, but if you have repented and asked God to change you into the likeness of Jesus...
It is an act that has been tolerated since the early seventies and nurtured since the eighties and is full blown championed since the new millennium. It always surprises me how few their really are, since they are the most vocal and annoying creatures in the human race.
Homosexuality is a mental disorder and needs to be treated as such. It has been proved time and again that these behaviors can be taught and they can be untaught. Thousands of Homosexuals have turned away from the gay life stile and have gotten married (to the opposite sex), raised children and in numerous instances have controlled their deviant sexual desires.
He also said people that cheat on thier spouses, people who steal, people who get drunk, people who slander, along with the gay people.
The key isn’t for gays not to act on their desires, it’s for their desires to change. How is that possible? I believe in some cases it’s posture. You see how gays hold books, cigarettes, etc? Very awkward feeling for a straight guy unless he slouches and extends his belly out. I think if we are taught to stand up straight when young and warned about the consequences we would reduce gay desires, at least among boys. Other benefits: Try to make your center of gravity on your back just below your armpits (by sticking your back out slightly at that point). You can pick up heavier items and can tolerate cold weather better.
Saying that something someone does that is wrong is not judging them, but their actions. Judging them would be to condem them and their actions and be able to carry out the sentence, which only God will do.
I am sad that someone would choose this dangerous life style, one that shortens ones life by 20 years (avg) and continues to lead the nation in HIV and STD rates(CDC). This life style is damaging to those caught in its web, physically, mentally, and spiritually.
God has already stated His position on this issue, He has called it an abomination, and has condemed it. All the smoke and mirrors and quoting scripture out of context will not change His mind.
Believers, on the other hand should show Jesus forgivness and the ability to transform any life given to Him. We as believers should call it sin, and it is, but we also need to extend forgivness and grace just as we were given, freely.
Homosexuality is damaging to life, (disease and illness) culture (undermines the family, and marraige-the oldest institution on the planet between one man and one woman), faith (churches/comapnies/individuals already being sued for not giving in to the LGBT agenda)and freedom (not being able to speak ones view about this w/o being threatened with “sensitivity training” or outright fired, and yes it is happening)
God has already sorted this out. (see Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities of the plain, Gen 14)
IMHO, the social malady of homosexuality manifest today, is also a manifestation of spiritual warfare.
If there were no spiritual involvement, there are too many other lifestyles which oppose homosexuality which are also sinful, but would proliferate.
Posture? Are you serious?
v11 And such some of you were [once]. But you were washed clean (purified by a complete atonement for sin and made free from the guilt of sin), and you were consecrated (set apart, hallowed), and you were justified [pronounced righteous, by trusting] in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the [Holy] Spirit of our God.
The list of the unrighteous who shall not inherit the Kingdom of God from 1Co 6:9-12 includes:
But even those who are such, are able through faith in Christ, to not be so condemned by turning away from such things and instead living through faith in Christ.
Romans 1:18-32 also associates the following behavior as unrighteous:
those who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
those when they knew God:
glorified him not as God,
neither were thankful;
became vain in their imaginations,
their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator,
Worshiping that which is not blessed instead of God who is blessed for ever.
A reprobate mind is occupied with:
haters of God,
inventors of evil things,
disobedient to parents,
without natural affection,
knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Do you walk on water and feed the hungry whilst pronouncing and judging? That is one heck of a list of sins and sinners you made there! Jesus watches you, too.
Or they engage in the false mantra of “if it wasn’t Jesus’ words(red letters)” it doesn’t count. I had someone even on this alleged conservative blog use that same argument once.
That is the biblical "we" for the believers.
Those who are not believers generally fall into two camps: those accepting or participating homosexuals, or those who merely say, "life and let live, I don't care one way or another....."
Reminds me of those who claim if we "don't like abortion, don't have one."
For the believer, such is not our choice. According to scripture, I am commanded not to keep silent or merely to look the other way for to do so, for me is to accept the act as acceptable in the sight of God.
With the definition of marriage redefined, the state with its new found power, will undermine further the sovereign nature of the family, and the sphere of the church or religious community as wellthe two spheres where divine and human rights independent of the state are located. This will come as an all out assault on hetero-sexism, or anything that seems to privilege the male-female binary or the nuclear family. It will enable the state to indoctrinate our children and deprive us of the power to intervene. The individualmen, women and childrenwill be reduced to be subjects of the state with no divine rights.
This is a part of the Marxist strategy. Human life must no longer have that transcendent importance that sets it above the state. Human life is now the property of the state to define as it wants and to use as it sees fit. The Constitution and our freedoms with their foundation in natural law are at stake. We must understand the serious nature of this fight. There will be no peace to be had by capitulation. As the love relationship of heterosexual marriage and the beginning of human life are being attacked by the Marxists effort to transform our society, one can only wonder whats next.
>>The current paradigm that some are “born gay” seems to be less empirical than political.
People are born all the time with Down Syndrome / trisomy-21, yet no one tries to argue this is a normal, desirable event.
But, but, Jesus also said, "When you judge use righteous judgment" and that "when your brother sins admonishing him in love" and further, judgment only applies to individuals. All Christians are called to judge sinful behavior in the abstract as sin. As Chesterton said, absolute tolerance is just the complete lack of all conviction.
The list is provided directly from the verses cited.
Study it and how it is presented.
He provides outstanding truth in that presentation.
Exactly. It amazes me that so many “libertarians” are for this. By its very definition, the homosexual agenda requires the expansion of the government, not the reduction of it(something libertarians claim they want).
Look at goals #24-27-
I understand your points and appreciate your respectful comments. Some of the behavior in the gay community is harmful and dangerous, leaving the religious implications aside. I would imagine that the same gratuitous and reckless hetrosexual behavior is equally harmful.
I know a few gay individuals and a few couples. I can’t speak to how all of them behave but my neighbors are a gay couple. My wife and I have spent time with them, they are generous, church-goesers, fairly conservative, and seem to honor and respect each other. Its very difficult for to find fault with them, let alone not recognize that at every chance they get, they seem to be doing God’s work.
I think we need less fire and brimstone on this issue and more compassion. Alcoholism and drug addiction are without question harmful to our culture and yet we find great compassion for its suffers, I think that same logical should be applied.
I agree 100% and at one time it was. What a shame that liberals changed that.
Being homosexual is not the same as doing homosexual. We all have temptations, the giving in to which would be a sin, the resisting of which is a blessing.
Why does this number keep increasing? Just last week people were claiming it was 3%. If this keeps up, we’ll be where the gay agenda always claims we were: 10 to 25%!
Christians are sometimes challenged as to why we so strongly oppose the normalization of homosexual behavior. After all, there are worse sins
No there isn’t.
God does not rate sin. Sin is sin. It is wrong. It has a cost. It has a cure.
Cvengr was simply listing the sins as found in the Bible that separate a person from God...he was not accusing or judging any one person of such, nor was he judging you. I’m sure Cvengr doesn’t walk on water.
My greatest objection to the homosexual agenda is its blatant attempt to normalize deviancy. If the Left can succeed in mainstreaming behavior as repugnant as homosexuality, then they become the arbiters of our morality, and indeed the authors of objectivity. If they so choose, they can define “up” as “down” and there’s nothing to be done about it.
Having once gained that power, they have effectively erased any absolute morality and supplanted natural law (and often, common sense) with their chimeric “values.”
Nobody is trying normalize alcoholism and drug addiction as perfectly acceptable alternative lifestyles which we should encourage and celebrate. And it's not compassion to indulge a lifestye which the Bible says will keep a person out of heaven. Nor is it compassion to set an example that one can pick and choose for themselves which precepts of God to accept and which to discard all depending on one's own personal preference just so long as in the process they remain convinced they are basically a "good person".
Do you walk on water and feed the hungry whilst pronouncing and judging? That is one heck of a list of sins and sinners you made there! Jesus watches you, too.
What you mean is “don’t condemn.” Condemning is what God does with souls when they meet Him. It’s not okay to tell yourself or someone else YOU condemn them to hell or heaven. Christians should not condemn. However, judgement - discernment - is central to a life of a Christian. The Bible is our roadmap.
I judge theft to be a sin - every day for everyone. I am a liar if I say I condemn a theif’s soul to heaven or hell. I work self examination (judgement), repentance and forgiveness as Jesus guided every day and in every way I can understand. The better I do it, the less mess I make of life and love.
The slogan “don’t judge” has come from the homos sex sin activists and the adulterers in churches who are condemning you for knowing good from evil and expressing it. They want you to shut up while they announce sexual sin is fine and dandy - without consequence both physically and heavenly. They are liars.
“Don’t judge!” is a tool to end conversation and permit sodomy to be named lovely as demanded. They want you to be indifferent to sin and even build a ceremony on the altar in church to celebrate sin (sodomy) and that is not what you are supposed to do as a Christian, in my understanding. I won’t be in a church or a religion that builds alters to sin. It won’t stop there and if you read homo doctrines you would know there is a reason they are yapping at other people’s children about porn and homo sex behavior in every school they can.
As the churches collapse to homo demands and intimidation, they are no longer Christian. I would have been burned at the stake as a Roman because I won’t worship Ceasar and his proclamations of good and evil. I’m sticking with Jesus as best I can. : )
Judgement is another word for Truth’s discernment. Homo activists don’t like discernment because sexual sin is exposed. They want Christians to make an altar to sexual sin in the church and just worship it as ordered. I think we might be in Rome. : )