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Our God-Forsaken Schools
Set Our Children Free ^ | 12/16/12 | Tony Caruso

Posted on 12/16/2012 8:43:47 AM PST by Guido2012

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge…. Proverbs 1:7

What is truly detestable about the state of public schools in this country is how far they have strayed from their historical roots. Most of the schools in this country, as well as many of the prestigious Ivy League universities were founded for the sole purpose of educating the populace in the Scriptures. Noah Webster, one of our nation’s leading educators, said, "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people." When you read the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, you will find that its principles of personal responsibility, self government, and liberty cannot be separated from the moral and spiritual principles of the Bible.

(Excerpt) Read more at setourchildrenfree.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: god; history; religion; schools
Editor’s Note: The following article was written before the recent elementary school shootings in Connecticut and was withheld out of respect for the victims and their families, and is in no way intended to imply that this senseless shooting was God’s doing.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge…. Proverbs 1:7

What is truly detestable about the state of public schools in this country is how far they have strayed from their historical roots. We have been beat over the head repeatedly by the media manta that there must be a constitutional separation of church and state, to the point where this myth is taken by the public as fact. And the activist Supreme Courts of the 50’s and 60’s haven’t helped matters either, twisting the First Amendment into incoherence, making legal reconciliation by subsequent Courts difficult. So how’d all that “separation of church and state” business work out for us? The truth is, since school prayer was banned in 1962, there has been a meteoric rise in the rates of violent crime, drug abuse, pre-marital sex, teen pregnancy, and sexually transmitted diseases in our schools and society. If you look at the statistics for these categories and plot them on a graph, during the years prior to 1962 the line was flat or declining. After 1962, the rates increased exponentially - 400-600% for each of these categories for the next 25 years with no signs of slowing down, even after factoring out population growth.

During this time period, our country chose to officially reject the authority of God in matters of public discourse. No living, breathing, red-blooded American can objectively conclude that our country has been better off since. In fact, every survey continues to show that the American people overwhelmingly feel we are going in the wrong direction.

We now have an entire generation of educators that have a predisposed hostility towards anything religious. This is all the more incredible considering our roots as a nation, and the avowed purposes for which most of our nation’s schools and universities were founded. Noah Webster, one of our nation’s leading educators, said, "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people." Benjamin Rush, a physician, and signer of the Declaration of Independence said, “The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty.” I could go on and quote many of the other Founders, who have said similar things about the relationship between religion, morality, and government. Even William O. Douglas, the most famous liberal Supreme Court Justice in history, said “We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.” Failure to acknowledge God in the public arena because of the Supreme Court- invented myth of “wall of separation of church and state,” is not only an incorrect interpretation and application of law and history, it has had grave consequences for our nation. Incidentally, the phrase “wall of separation of church and state,” is not found in the Constitution as so many people have been led to believe - a point made clear by the dissenting Justice in the Supreme Court’s 1962 case, Engel v. Vitalewhich struck down school prayer. In fact he called the phrase a “metaphor” and its use by the Court irresponsible. What the Constitution does prohibit is the government’s establishment of a state-sponsored religion as well as their interference in one’s free exercise of religion. Many of the Founders have made it abundantly clear that religion and morality are indispensable to the maintenance of a free republic. If the First Amendment truly intended to ban all religious expression from government, including public schools, then why did the Founders’ own well-documented actions and words show that they believed just the opposite? And despite this, we have had open, repeated hostility toward any religious expression in our schools in the form of banning certain student attire, to equal access to school facilities, to censorship of student’s written and oral classroom work, to censorship of valedictorian speeches –events that have become too commonplace to even list them all.

All laws have their roots in moral principles, and our laws are no different. Despite what secularists would have us believe, much of the moral code that existed in this country came from the Bible, which eventually became incorporated into English common law, thus forming the basis of all of our laws. Most of the schools in this country, as well as many of the prestigious Ivy League universities were founded for the sole purpose of educating the populace in the Scriptures. That’s our history folks, like it or not, and it was never considered unconstitutional. In fact, the moral code taught in the Scriptures was considered essential to the preservation of a free society, and I might add, it still is essential for that purpose. We don’t have a political problem in this country, we have a moral problem. Until we officially rejected the authority of God, our kids could walk to school safely, and while they were there, learn respect for our flag, our heritage, our institutions, and our country. When they came home, they could watch any TV program without their parents fearing what they would see or hear. In just one generation, we have turned into an American that most middle aged citizens don’t recognize.

When you read the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, you will find that its principles of personal responsibility, self government, and liberty cannot be separated from the moral and spiritual principles of the Bible. During the latter half of the 20th century, a prosperous America abandoned those principles in their personal lives, and we have been paying the price ever since. This decline in morality was precipitated not so coincidently with the advent of activist judges and a discarding of our Constitutional principles. The fruits of those disastrous rulings by unelected judges, have been irresponsible behavior and lack of personal responsibility and accountability, leading to sexual promiscuity, fatherless children, divorce, poverty, and crime. It has dramatically changed our society within one generation, and by default, changed our schools. So now instead of teaching academics, we are re-educating a new generation to accept this “new norm” in the name of tolerance and compassion. And instead of teaching the value of national unity, the Pledge of Allegiance, and one nation under God indivisible, we are celebrating diversity and group identity. Instead of school prayers each morning reverencing “Our Father in heaven,” students view An Inconvenient Truth reverencing our Mother Earth.

In truth, the decline in American education started long before the sixties. There was a long line of educational “gurus” dating back nearly 100 years that have helped shape America’s education policy, most notably John Dewey, a self-described socialist and father of “progressive” education. It was Dewey, in fact, who was the chief proponent of mandatory public education as a means of undermining traditional values and using the schools as an agent of social change. Much of the philosophy espoused by these educators had its roots in Marxism. Lest we forget, compulsory public education is one of the ten planks of the Communist Manifesto. If you read these ten planks, you would be hard pressed to find the differences between the policies of our own government, and one purposely built from the ground up as a communist government. Purposeful or not, our schools have become brainwashing centers for the political left, at every level. Concepts like liberty, self-government, personal responsibility, and free enterprise are missing in action in today’s curriculum, even though they are the principles that are supposed to form the foundation of our society. An entire generation has been educated to be comfortable with egalitarianism, globalism, feminism, and environmentalism. The struggle for power between this generation of public school students, and other freedom loving individuals in our country will be the defining cultural war of our time.

1 posted on 12/16/2012 8:43:57 AM PST by Guido2012
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To: Guido2012

So what happened in the Amish school shooting? Or the Bath School bombing (35 years before the 1962 decision)? Why is it that the most atheist friendly countries have the lowest homicide rates? Or with the exception of Utah, the most religious states have some of the highest murder rates. Or, with the exception of Alaska, the most irreligious states have the lowest murder rates.

Still looking for meaningful causality. Murder rate nationally is about the same as it was in 1962.


2 posted on 12/16/2012 8:54:35 AM PST by exhaustguy
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To: exhaustguy
Why is it that the most atheist friendly countries have the lowest homicide rates?

Of course that is only if you ignore the homicides committed by the state against the citizens who didn't hold the party line. (Soviet Gulag, China, Cambodian killing fields, etc)

3 posted on 12/16/2012 9:02:07 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: exhaustguy
Or, with the exception of Alaska, the most irreligious states have the lowest murder rates.

You can't be serious - Kalifornia does not have the lowest murder rate.

4 posted on 12/16/2012 9:03:29 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Guido2012

I work in a Public School in Mississippi. We don’t have near the restrictions that’re in Northern States. I play Christmas Carols in the classroom during Christmas season.


5 posted on 12/16/2012 9:11:42 AM PST by MuttTheHoople (Pray for Joe Biden- Proverbs 29:9)
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To: Godzilla

Actually California has a pretty large evangelical community (I used to live there). It is far from being the most irreligious state. I looked at the top 5 for murder rate and religious ranking. California is somewhere below top five in either category. Murder rate is 4.8. Ranking in terms of being Christian (not the same thing but a different list - California is 33). Top 5 for Christian - Utah (1.9) (which is odd since they are not Christian), North Dakota (3.5) , Alabama (6.3), Louisiana (11.2), Oklahoma (5.5). Bottom 5 for Christian - Maine (2.0), Oregon (2.1), Alaska (4.0), Vermont (1.3), Washington (2.4).

What I found -

Salon.com lists the 8 countries that are most accomodating to atheists. Here they are by murder rate: Czech Rep - 1.7. Sweden - 1.0, Denmark - 0.9, Austria - 0.6, France - 1.1, Norway - 0.6, Australia - 1.0, Japan - 0.3 The U.S. rate is at 4.2. For states the most religious Mississippi - 8.0, Utah - 1.9, Alabama - 6.3, Louisiana - 11.2, Arkansas - 5.5. For the least religious states Vermont - 1.3, New Hampshire -1.3, Maine -2.0, Massachusetts - 2.8, Alaska - 4.0. Unless your religion is Mormonism it looks like a negative correlation to me between belief and murder (if a correlation does exist).


6 posted on 12/16/2012 9:20:23 AM PST by exhaustguy
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To: Guido2012
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7 posted on 12/16/2012 10:08:51 AM PST by MtnMan101
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To: Guido2012

This is pure stupidity on the part of so called Christians. The teachers don’t make the rules stupid.

What act was more Christian than that of the young teacher that gave up her life in an attempt to protect her children.

The megachurch and TV preachers of the born again ilk that are using people for their own self-interest should be ashamed. They may be the true anti-christs who are destroying the compassion and love of the true believers which is driving people away from church.

They only want to promote their own agenda and sit out elections and don’t get involved because the other people aren’t their type. Well this young lady was better than any of these people regardless of her religious beliefs.


8 posted on 12/16/2012 10:23:13 AM PST by A Strict Constructionist (We're an Oligrachy...Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. Thomas Jefferson)
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To: MuttTheHoople

I’m glad you have the ability to do that.


9 posted on 12/16/2012 10:37:58 AM PST by The Mayor ("If you can't make them see the light, let them feel the heat" — Ronald Reagan)
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To: Guido2012
The Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit

The Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit

Wisdom    |      Understanding    |     Counsel     |    Fortitude
Knowledge     
|      Piety    |     Fear of the Lord

Wisdom

[Read Proverbs Chapter 8]

Wisdom is one of the three main attributes of God: Power, Wisdom and Love, corresponding to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and to the three theological virtues of Faith , Hope and Love.

Jesus is the incarnate Wisdom of God, He is the Word of God made flesh, He is the way, the truth and the life. Bestowed upon Him is the plenitude of Wisdom, which desires to live in every heart.

One who is full of God is full of Wisdom,  with Jesus He can claim the prophecy of Isaiah which was fulfilled as Jesus read it. [Luke 4:18-21]

[John 15:4]   Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me.

A definition of Wisdom is found in the book of Job [28:28] Behold the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom: and to depart from evil, is understanding.

[Psalm 111:10] the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. A good understanding to all that do it: his praise continues for ever and ever.

[Romans 11:33 ]  O the depth of the riches of the wisdom and of the knowledge of God! How incomprehensible are his judgments, and how unsearchable his ways!

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: I will catch the wise in their own craftiness. [1 Corinthians 3:19]

Understanding

And God gave to Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart as the sand that is on the sea shore.  [1 Kings 4:29-30 (3 Kings in D. Rh)]; understanding is the ability to discern what is from God and what is not. It is also the gift of understanding the meaning of the Holy Scriptures.

With the gift of understanding the disciples on the road to Emmaus were given the light to understand the Holy Scriptures and their hearts burned within as the Lord spoke to them.[Luke 24:30]   The apostles understood about the yeast of the Pharisees being their wicked doctrine [Matthew 16:12], when the Lord told them that Elijah had come but they had done with him whatever they pleased, the apostles understood that Jesus was referring to John the Baptist [Matthew 17:12-13]

Understanding is also the gift of being able to perceive the hidden spiritual meaning of the Holy Scriptures, either by reading and meditating them or by listening to someone who has the gift of preaching.

Counsel

Those who desire to acquire wisdom must accept that they don't know everything, they should seek counsel from the elders and learn from experience and wisdom.

In the old days, kings used to consult the prophets and the men of wisdom before taking important decisions. God gives counsel to those who come to Him, therefore we should consult the Lord before we take any important decision, He will respond by giving us a clear mind full of wisdom.

With this gift we learn to help those who are confused, we lend a hand to those suffering depression, we advise those who are about to do something wrong and we minister the great wisdom of God, we normally receive counsel from God [Psalm 16:7] when we are sleeping.

[Psalm 32.8-9]

8 I will give thee understanding, and I will instruct thee in this way, in which thou shalt go: I will fix my eyes upon thee.
9 Do not become like the horse and the mule, who have no understanding. With bit and bridle bind fast their jaws, who come not near unto thee.

Fortitude

Our Lord Jesus Christ had this great gift from God the Father so that He was able to endure the hardships of the passion.

God gives us the cross but He also gives us the strength to carry it [1 Corinthians 10:13]

It is not by human strength that we have to do our spiritual battles, therefore we need to be reinforced being strong in Him and in the strength of His power, putting on the armour of God and fighting the good battle.[Ephesians 6:10-17]

Seek ye the Lord, and be strengthened: seek his face evermore. [Psalm 105:4

In fortitude we learn to endure and persevere through all our difficulties, I am able to do all things in Him who strengthens me. [Philippians 4:13]

Knowledge

The gift of knowledge is the ability to know future events and to read the minds of others, mainly to read the soul of another person; as Our Lord demonstrated knowing how the samaritan woman had had different men [John 4:18-19], He read the mind of those who were saying to themselves how can this man forgive sins when only God forgives sins [Luke 5:21-23], He knew that Lazarus was dead when the apostles came to tell Him, He also knew that Judas was going to betray Him and much more.

This gift of the Holy Spirit has been present in the lives of the prophets and the saints, it is given so that others may be warned or that they strengthen their faith.

In a weak form this gift is the same as intuition. For those who practise the spiritual life, this gift comes sometimes in visions that represent a message of something that is either going on or that will happen, also as a reminder to pray for a particular cause or person.

Piety

This is a great gift of faith that gives a person the ability to spend time in prayer and devotions, it is like a fire that always wants to grow and it receives fuel in prayer.

On the way to Calvary Jesus met the pious women of Jerusalem, they followed the example of Mary our Blessed Mother. Pious people can be found today attending mass daily and praying for other people. They feed their piety by praying the Holy Rosary daily, by seeking knowledge in religious books and by practicing their religious devotions.

Most priests and religious have had this strong vocation of serving the Lord, they were motivated by piety. They have accepted hardships and persecutions and somehow they have become fools for Christ like St. Paul [2 Corinthians 12:10-11] because in our weaknesses we discover the strength of the Lord.

In baptism we receive an infusion of all these gifts of the Holy Spirit, but like gifts under the Christmas tree, they must be opened and put to good use.

Fear of the Lord

Holy fear of the Lord consists in fearing to offend God by our indifference and sinfulness.

In fact fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom [Proverbs 1:7], The fear of the Lord hates evil: I hate arrogance, and pride, and every wicked way, and a mouth with a double tongue says the Lord . [Proverbs 8:13]

Not much is taught about fearing God any more, the concept is that God is so good that we should not fear Him, but if we look at the Holy Scriptures we will see that even the Holy Name of God inspired so much awe and respect that the Israelites did not pronounce it completely for fear of offending Him.

We must not fear God because He is going to punish us, this indeed would be to think that God is a punitive God waiting for a chance to teach us a lesson. We must fear God because our lives depend on Him and if we sin, we ourselves separate from Him and risk to be on our own.

A branch cut off the vine withers and dies [John 15:1-6], so if we turn away from God who is Light, we give ourselves to the prince of darkness, the devil  and He becomes our Father [John 8:44] . This would be enough reason to have fear of offending God.

So we must trust and remain in our faithful God, who is our strength, the light of our lives. We must remain faithful to Him and avoid the risk of losing Him for lack of Fear of God.

Romans 3:10

 10 As it is written: There is not any man just.
 11 There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
 12 All have turned out of the way; they are become unprofitable together: there is none that doth good, there is not so much as one.
 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have dealt deceitfully. The venom of asps is under their lips.
 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
 15 Their feet swift to shed blood:
 16 Destruction and misery in their ways:
 17 And the way of peace they have not known:
 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.


10 posted on 12/16/2012 10:58:35 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: exhaustguy; Godzilla

The atheist friendly Soviet Union and commie China murdered tens of millions.


11 posted on 12/16/2012 11:31:48 AM PST by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Guido2012

I have a simple reply. Disband the D.E.A., first. Then, return the schooling authority, back to the individual states. You will have disrupted the Progressives in Washington, D.C., and at the same time, disbanded the authority of the federal government in your local school board, possibly undermining the gamemanship of your local school board superintendent, and his own good ol’ boy network.

Do that first, and quickly, THEN let’s talk about the rest, because the opposition will be disarmed.


12 posted on 12/16/2012 11:55:39 AM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: Jacquerie

The pseudo Christian whatever the hell they were Nazis slaughtered 8-12 million, so what is your point? While the numbers were lower (remember they did not have mechanization), the Inquisition and witch trials did a good job of slaughtering a bunch of folks indiscrimately. You also had the pograms against the Jews in Spain, Russia, etc.

A website describing the various Christian atrocities:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

Some more facts - Leopold II (a Catholic) slaughtered 8,00,000 in the Congo
From 10 to 100 million Native Americans (actual number unknown from Christian Europeans and their diseases)
50 million? in Africa from colonization and the slave trade
How many in Asia from colonization as well?


13 posted on 12/16/2012 12:35:05 PM PST by exhaustguy
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To: exhaustguy; A.A. Cunningham
Ping to a.a.

My, my. I apparently hit a nerve. Some lunatic blows away a couple dozen kids and its the fault of Christians?

Oh, and your Nazi friends were not Christian, but they were National Socialists.

14 posted on 12/16/2012 1:30:00 PM PST by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Jacquerie

The original point was that the shooting was related to not having God in school. I pointed out that being God fearing (here I interpret Christian) has no correlation to murder rates. Next the post was that atheists have killed so many millions. I then pointed out that Christians also killed so many millions. Just like atheists won’t claim Stalin or Mao, you are within your rights to not claim Hitler (even though his was a “Christian” nation full of Catholics and Protestants who saw no issue with rounding up Jews). Of course you can self select a group that has never done anything wrong eventually.

The point remains that this shooting has not been proven to be related to lack of established Christianity in the schools (by the way Christianity is a personal decision for students and a significant number are Christian many of whom pray and read their Bibles in school - both perfectly legal in our country. My daughters both do in their school). They even have Christian rallies on the track field.
I am particularly offended by any Christian who states a link between something like this tragedy and lack of established Christianity in schools. I am not saying it is the fault of Christians. I am a Christian.


15 posted on 12/16/2012 1:55:18 PM PST by exhaustguy
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To: exhaustguy
The original point was that the shooting was related to not having God in school

Incorrect. The column was written prior to the massacre. YOU made the correlation in your first post.

Somehow, you as a Christian(?) associate mass killing with Christianity.

Your silly "analysis" connecting low homicide rates with atheism were pathetic, and could be refuted by the worst student in a high school statistics class.

16 posted on 12/16/2012 2:13:05 PM PST by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: exhaustguy

Well I live here NOW. Murder rate and violent crime have been skyrocketing. It may have had an evangelical community at one time - but no longer.


17 posted on 12/16/2012 2:24:01 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: exhaustguy; Jacquerie
The original point was that the shooting was related to not having God in school.

Hogwash. How many school massacres were there in 1950, 1960, 1970 or even 1980? Progressively God and any mention of him have been forces out of our schools and public square by atheists and secularist. They can't even sing a traditional Christmas carol for goodness sake. Our schools are teaching as young as kindergarten to accept homosexuality, elementary school kids start learning about condoms, high schools have their 'health' clinics. Pull your head out of the hole you firmly have it planted in.

BTW - reading bible perfectly 'legal'. I couldn't do it when I was in high school in 70's and kids today are forbidden to even give a candy cane with a christian message associated with it on school property. When was the last time Gideon representative was allowed to pass out bibles hmmm.

18 posted on 12/16/2012 2:31:04 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Godzilla

Some guidelines which are out there.

http://www.freedomforum.org/publications/first/teachersguide/teachersguide.pdf

“Students have a right to distribute religious literature to their schoolmates on the same terms as they are permitted to distribute other literature that is unrelated to school curriculum or activities. Schools may impose the same reasonable time, place, and manner or other constitutional restrictions on distribution of religious literature as they do on nonschool literature generally, but they may not single out religious literature for special regulation.”

“Students have the right to pray individually or in groups or to discuss their religious views with their peers so long as they are not disruptive. Because the Establishment Clause does not apply to purely private speech, students enjoy the right to read their Bibles or other scriptures, say grace before meals, pray before tests, and discuss religion with other willing student listeners. In the classroom, students have the right to pray quietly except when required to be actively engaged in school activities (e.g., students may not decide to pray just as a teacher calls on them). In informal settings, such as the cafeteria or in the halls, students may pray either audibly or silently, subject to the same rules of order as apply to other speech in these locations. However, the right to engage in voluntary prayer does not include, for example, the right to have a captive audience listen or to compel other students to participate.”

The guide has been endorsed by the following organizations:
American Association of School Administrators
American Federation of Teachers
American Jewish Committee
American Jewish Congress
Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development
Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs
Christian Educators Association International
Christian Legal Society
Council on Islamic Education
National Association of Elementary School Principals
National Association of Evangelicals
National Association of Secondary School Principals
National Council of Churches of Christ in the U.S.A.
National Council for the Social Studies
National Education Association
National PTA
National School Boards Association
Union of American Hebrew Congregations
Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America

While the ACLU does not endorse this guide, they recommend its use (http://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/statement-emthe-bible-public-schools-first-amendment-guideem)
“Although the ACLU does not endorse all of the recommendations included in the document (in part because some pertain to issues on which the organization takes no position, such as which courses ought to be included in a public school curriculum), the document provides a great deal of sound guidance that, if implemented openly and conscientiously, is constitutional and will help protect schools against liability.”

One example of a local ACLU which put out their own guidelines:

“The ACLU has always defended students’ right to pray individually and voluntarily in school as long as they do not disrupt regular school activities. For example, students may be allowed to read their Bibles on the school bus or pray together before lunch; however, they may not force other students to read along or listen.

Organized events such as “See You at the Pole” are permissible under certain conditions. “See You at the Pole” involves prayer meetings held before the start of the school day at a pre-arranged site on school grounds. Similar to guidelines outlined in the Equal Access Act, outside persons may not direct, conduct, control or regularly attend the activities of such student groups. Additionally, schools may not circumvent the ban against school-sponsored prayer by initiating such events and delegating the responsibilities to students, or by obtaining “permission” from parents. Furthermore, schools may not advertise or promote such events within the school either verbally or in writ-ing. Within this framework schools prevent the impression of endorsement, equally respecting the practices of stu-dents of all religions.”

Gideons can’t pass out Bibles because it conveys the establishment of religion. Gideons can pass out Bibles freely in the community though. Does this restriction seem overly onerous? You can’t pass out Korans or The Book of Mormon or Hindu Scriptures either.

As for school shootings. Here is a list compiled for those before 1962. Remember that you had far less access to high lethality weapons back then (even though in Bath a bomb was used to kill more students than in Newtown). What could any one of these shooters have done with a .223 w/multiple 30 round magazines?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/2012/12/16/no-mr-huckabee-its-not-because-god-has-been-removed-from-schools/

Pre-1962 school shootings:

November 12, 1840: Charlottesville, Virginia. University of Virginia student Joseph Green Semmes shot law professor John A.G. Davis when Davis attempted to unmask Semmes and another student, both of whom were wearing masks and carrying pistols. Professor Davis died three days later.

November 2, 1853: Louisville, Kentucky. A student, Matthew Ward, bought a self-cocking pistol in the morning, went to school and killed Schoolmaster Mr. Butler for excessively punishing his brother the day before.

June 8, 1867: New York City. At Public School No. 18, a 13 year old lad brought a pistol loaded and capped, without the knowledge of his parents or school-teachers, and shot and injured a classmate.

December 22, 1868: Chattanooga, Tennessee. A boy who refused to be whipped and left school, returned, with his brother and a friend, the next day to seek revenge on his teacher. Not finding the teacher at the school, they continued to his house, where a gun battle rang out, leaving three dead. Only the brother survived.

March 9, 1873: Salisbury, Maryland. After school as Miss Shockley was walking with four small children, she was approached by a Mr. Hall and shot. The Schoolmaster ran out, but she was dead instantly. Hall threw himself under a train that night.

May 24, 1879: Lancaster, New York. As the carriage loaded with female students was pulling out of the school’s stables, Frank Shugart, a telegraph operator, shot and severely injured Mr. Carr, Superintendent of the stables.

July 4, 1886: Charleston, South Carolina. During Sunday school, Emma Connelly shot and killed John Steedley for “circulating slanderous reports” about her, even though her brother publicly whipped him a few days earlier.

June 12, 1887: Cleveland, Tennessee. Will Guess went to the school and fatally shot Miss Irene Fann, his little sister’s teacher, for whipping her the day before.

June 13, 1889: New Brunswick, New Jersey. Charles Crawford, upset over an argument with a school Trustee, went up to the window and fired a pistol into a crowded school room. The bullet lodged in the wall just above the teacher’s head.

April 9, 1891: Newburgh, New York. 70 year old James Foster fired a shotgun at a group of students in the playground of St. Mary’s Parochial School, causing minor injuries to several of the students.

February 26, 1902: Camargo, Illinois. Teacher Fletcher R. Barnett shot and killed another teacher, Eva C. Wiseman, in front of her class at a school near Camargo, Illinois. After shooting at a pupil who came to help Miss Wiseman and wounding himself in a failed suicide attempt he waited in the classroom until a group of farmers came to lynch him. He then ran out of the school building, grabbed a shotgun from one of the farmers and shot himself, before running away and leaping into a well where he finally drowned. The incident was likely sparked by Wiseman’s refusal to marry Barnett.

February 24, 1903: Inman, South Carolina. Edward Foster, a 17-year-old student at Inman High school, was shot and fatally wounded by his teacher Reuben Pitts after he had jerked a rod from Pitts’ hands to resist punishment. According to the teacher, Foster struck the pistol Pitts had drawn to defend himself, thus causing its discharge. Pitts was later acquitted of murder.

October 10, 1906: Cleveland, Ohio. Harry Smith shot and killed 22-year-old teacher Mary Shepard at South Euclid School after she had rejected him. Smith escaped and committed suicide in a barn near his home two hours later.

March 23, 1907: Carmi, Illinois. George Nicholson shot and killed John Kurd at a schoolhouse outside of Carmi, Illinois during a school rehearsal. The motive for the shooting was Kurd making a disparaging remark about Nicholson’s daughter during her recital.

March 11, 1908: Boston, Massachusetts. Elizabeth Bailey Hardee was shot to death by Sarah Chamberlain Weed at the Laurens School, a finishing school in Boston. Weed then turned the gun on herself and committed suicide.

April 15, 1908: Asheville, North Carolina. Dr. C. O. Swinney shot and fatally wounded his 16-year-old daughter Nellie in a reception room at Normal and Collegiate Institute. He then committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.

February 12, 1909: San Francisco, California. 10-year-old Dorothy Malakanoff was shot and killed by 49-year-old Demetri Tereaschinko as she arrived at her school in San Francisco. Tereaschinko then shot himself in a failed suicide attempt. Tereaschinko was reportedly upset that Malakanoff refused to elope with him.

January 10, 1912: Warrenville, Illinois. Sylvester E. Adams shot and killed teacher Edith Smith after she rejected his advances. Adams then shot and killed himself. The incident took place in a schoolhouse about a mile outside of Warrenville after the students had been dismissed for the day.

March 27, 1919: Lodi Township, Michigan. 19-year-old teacher Irma Casler was shot and killed in her classroom at Rentschler school in Lodi Township, Michigan by Robert Warner, apparently because she had rejected his advances.

April 2, 1921: Syracuse, New York. Professor Holmes Beckwith shot and killed dean J. Herman Wharton in his office at Syracuse University before committing suicide.

May 22, 1930: Ringe, Minnesota. Margaret Wegman, 20-year-old teacher at the local rural school, was shot and killed in the school by 24-year-old Douglas Petersen.

February 15, 1933: Downey, California. Dr. Vernon Blythe shot and killed his wife Eleanor, as well as his 8-year old son Robert at Gallatin grammar school and committed suicide after firing three more shots at his other son Vernon. His wife, who had been a teacher at the school, had filed for divorce the week before.

September 14, 1934: Gill, Massachusetts. Headmaster Elliott Speer was murdered by a shotgun blast through the window of his study at Northfield Mount Hermon School. The crime was never solved.

March 27, 1935: Medora, North Dakota. Emily Hartl, 24-year-old teacher at the Manlon school northwest of Medora, was shot and killed at the school by 28-year-old Harry McGill, a former suitor.

December 12, 1935: New York City, New York. Victor Koussow, a Russian laboratory worker at the School of Dental and Oral Surgery, shot Prof. Arthur Taylor Rowe, Prof. Paul B. Wiberg, and wounded Dr. William H. Crawford at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, before committing suicide.

April 27, 1936: Lincoln, Nebraska. Prof. John Weller shot and wounded Prof. Harry Kurz in a corridor of the University of Nebraska, apparently because of his impending dismissal at the end of the semester. After shooting Kurz Weller tried to escape, but was surrounded by police on the campus, whereupon he killed himself with a shot in the chest.

June 4, 1936: Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Wesley Crow shot and killed his Lehigh University English instructor, C. Wesley Phy. Crow went to Phy’s office and demanded that Mr. Phy change his grade to a passing mark. Crow committed suicide after shooting Phy.

September 24, 1937: Toledo, Ohio. 12-year-old Robert Snyder shot and wounded his principal, June Mapes, in her office at Arlington public school when she declined his request to call a classmate. He then fled the school grounds and shot and wounded himself.

May 6, 1940: South Pasadena, California. After being removed as principal of South Pasadena Junior High School, Verlin Spencer shot six school officials, killing five, before attempting to commit suicide by shooting himself in the stomach.

May 23, 1940: New York City, New York. Infuriated by a grievance, Matthew Gillespie, 62-year-old janitor at the junior school of the Dwight School for Girls, shot and critically wounded Mrs. Marshall Coxe, secretary of the junior school.

July 4, 1940: Valhalla, New York. Angered by the refusal of his daughter, Melba, 15 years old, to leave a boarding school and return to his home, Joseph Moshell, 47, visited the school and shot and killed the girl.

September 12, 1940: Uniontown, Pennsylvania. 29-year-old teacher Carolyn Dellamea was shot to death inside her third grade classroom by 35-year-old William Kuhns. Kuhns then shot himself in the chest in a failed suicide attempt. Kuhns had reportedly been courting Dellamea for over a year but the relationship was ended when Dellamea discovered that Kuhns was already married.

October 2, 1942: New York City, New York. Erwin Goodman, 36-year-old mathematics teacher at William J. Gaynor Junior High School, was shot and killed in the school corridor by a youth.

June 26, 1946: Brooklyn, New York. A 15-year-old schoolboy who balked at turning over his pocket money to a gang of seven youths was shot in the chest at 11:30 A.M. in the basement of the Public School 147 annex of the Brooklyn High School for Automotive Trades.

February 5, 1947: Madill, Oklahoma. 1st grade teacher Jessie Laird, 40-years-old, was shot to death in her classroom, during recess, by her estranged husband, Ellis Laird, 62-years-old. Laird then fatally shot himself.

November 13, 1949: Columbus, Ohio. Ohio State University freshman James Heer grabbed a .45 caliber handgun from the room of a Delta Tau Delta fraternity brother and shot and killed his fraternity brother Jack McKeown, 21, an Ohio State senior.

April 25, 1950: Peru, Nebraska. Dr. William Nicholas, 48, president of Peru State College and Dr. Paul Maxwell, 56, education department head, were shot to death at their desks by Dr. Barney Baker, 54-year-old psychology professor. Baker was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot at his home on campus.

July 22, 1950: New York City, New York. A 16-year-old boy was shot in the wrist and abdomen at the Public School 141 dance during an argument with a former classmate.

March 12, 1951: Union Mills, North Carolina Professor W. E. Sweatt, superintendent and teacher at the Alexander school, was shot to death by students Billy Ray Powell, 16, and Hugh Justice, 19. The assailants had been reprimanded by Sweatt, and they waited for him as he locked his office door.

November 27, 1951: New York City, New York. David Brooks, a 15-year-old student, was fatally shot as fellow-pupils looked on in a grade school.

April 9, 1952: New York City, New York. A 15-year-old boarding-school student shot a dean rather than relinquish pin-up pictures of girls in bathing suits.

July 14, 1952: New York City, New York. Bayard Peakes walked in to the offices of the American Physical Society at Columbia University and shot and killed secretary Eileen Fahey with a .22 caliber pistol. Peakes was reportedly upset that the APS had rejected a pamphlet he had written.

September 3, 1952: in Lawrenceville, Illinois. After 25-year-old Georgine Lyon ended her engagement with Charles Petrach, Petrach shot and killed Lyon in a classroom at Lawrenceville High School where she worked as a librarian.

May 15, 1954: Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Putnam Davis Jr. was shot and killed during a fraternity house carnival at the Phi Delta Theta house at the University of North Carolina. William Joyner and Allen Long were shot and wounded during the exchange of gunfire in their fraternity bedroom. The incident took place after an all-night beer party. Mr. Long reported to the police that, while the three were drinking beer at 7 a.m., Davis pulled out a gun and started shooting with a gun he had obtained from the car of a former roommate.

January 11, 1955: Swarthmore, Pennsylvania. After some of his dorm mates urinated on his mattress Bob Bechtel, a 20-year-old student at Swarthmore College, returned to his dorm with a shotgun and used it to shoot and kill fellow student Holmes Strozier.

May 4, 1956: in Prince George’s County, Maryland. 15-year-old student Billy Prevatte fatally shot one teacher and injured two others at Maryland Park Junior High School in Prince George’s County after he had been reprimanded from the school.

October 20, 1956: New York City, New York. A junior high school student was wounded in the forearm yesterday by another student armed with a home-made weapon at Booker T. Washington Junior High School.

October 2, 1957: New York City, New York. A 16-year old student was shot in the leg yesterday by a 15-year old classmate at a city high school.

March 4, 1958: New York City, New York. A 17-year-old student shot a boy in the Manual Training High School.

May 1, 1958: Massapequa, New York. A 15-year-old high school freshman was shot and killed by a classmate in a washroom of the Massapequa High School.

September 24, 1959: New York City, New York. Twenty-seven men and boys and an arsenal were seized in the Bronx as the police headed off a gang war resulting from the fatal shooting of a teenager Monday at Morris High School.

February 2, 1960: Hartford City, Indiana. Principal Leonard Redden shot and killed two teachers with a shotgun at William Reed Elementary School in Hartford City, Indiana, before fleeing into a remote forest, where he committed suicide.

March 30, 1960: Alice, Texas. Donna Dvorak, 14, brought a .22 target pistol to Dubose Junior High School, and fatally shot Bobby Whitford, 15, in their 9th grade science class. Dvorak believed Whitford posed a threat to one of her girlfriends.

June 7, 1960: Blaine, Minnesota. Lester Betts, a 40-year-old mail-carrier, walked into the office of 33-year-old principal Carson Hammond and shot him to death with a 12-gauge shotgun.

October 17, 1961: Denver, Colorado. Tennyson Beard, 14, got into an argument with William Hachmeister, 15, at Morey Junior High School. During the argument Beard pulled out a .38 caliber revolver and shot at Hachmeister, wounding him. A stray bullet also struck Deborah Faith Humphrey, 14, who died from her gunshot wound.


19 posted on 12/16/2012 7:13:57 PM PST by exhaustguy
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To: Jacquerie

From the original article:
“The truth is, since school prayer was banned in 1962, there has been a meteoric rise in the rates of violent crime...”

Murder rate nationally is about the same today as it was in 1962. Granted violent crime has gone up since 1962, but it has trended downward since its peak in 1991. Has more school prayer gone on since then, or did school prayer end immediately after 1962 to acocunt for the growth during that time? Remember I am not trying to prove causality about establishment causing violent crime, I am only arguing that stopping it is not correlated with violent crime. The much more ambitious claim is being made by your article.

It is a darn shame about statistics. If you cannot show correlation, then you sure can’t show causation. I have shown no correlation for the claim, therefore you can’t claim causality.


20 posted on 12/16/2012 7:31:32 PM PST by exhaustguy
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To: exhaustguy

Sorry you had to do all that typing for nothing, because you completely missed my point. My article wasn’t about school shootings, it was about OFFICIALLY rejecting God by prohibiting OFFICIAL sanction of prayer and Bible reading in our schools. You’re not really foolish enough to suggest that our education system and our society is better off now than in 1962 are you? I didn’t think so. So how are all those court decisions taking God out of the public arena working out for us?


21 posted on 12/16/2012 7:56:36 PM PST by Guido2012
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To: exhaustguy

It’s also a darn shame you missed the entire point of the article. Are you really suggesting we’re better off now in our schools and our society than we were in 1962? If you are, you are completely clueless. If you agree that we’re not, then what do you attribute to the decline? There’s no question, like the article said, that this decline is a moral problem, not a political one. Morality is at the root of every problem we have. And causation of moral problems? Let’s see ... yeah, that might have something to do with rejecting God and doing things our own way.


22 posted on 12/16/2012 8:06:11 PM PST by Guido2012
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To: exhaustguy

It’s also a darn shame you missed the entire point of the article. Are you really suggesting we’re better off now in our schools and our society than we were in 1962? If you are, you are completely clueless. If you agree that we’re not, then what do you attribute to the decline? There’s no question, like the article said, that this decline is a moral problem, not a political one. Morality is at the root of every problem we have. And causation of moral problems? Let’s see ... yeah, that might have something to do with rejecting God and doing things our own way.


23 posted on 12/16/2012 8:06:20 PM PST by Guido2012
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To: exhaustguy

You prove my point over again - only with the blessings of the ACLU. More godlessness.

All those murders - NONE were a mass murder but by and large singular deaths. thanks for proving my point - again.

Sucking from Freethought.blog - atheist source. What kind of “Christian” are you. Certainly not the normal kind judging from your love of atheism and its tenants.


24 posted on 12/16/2012 8:11:34 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: exhaustguy

Murder rate nationally is about the same as it was in 1962.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It is hard to compare 1962 with today since in 1962 the sophisticated system of rescue and trauma center care did not exist. More people died from their wounds in 1962 and more survive today. What would have been a murder in 1952 is today merely a very serious injury.


25 posted on 12/16/2012 8:23:28 PM PST by wintertime
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To: exhaustguy

Your comments are irrelevant to the mass murder. Try again.


26 posted on 12/17/2012 2:19:12 AM PST by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Guido2012

In 1903 in State of Nebraska v. Scheve (which reads very much like the 1962 and following decisions from the Supreme Court) school prayer and the institutional exercise of religion was banned. In 1962 the Alabama law mandating religious reading was impacted by the Supreme Court (and susequent Supreme Court decisions). So for Nebraska nothing changed and for Alabama your point about the causal link between violence and removal of prayer should hold. Here are the statistics:
1960 Alabama - Violent crime rate 187, In 2011 420 (note the murder rate dropped from 12.4 to 6.3.
1960 Nebraska - Violent crime rate 42, In 2011 253

Note that in Alabama the crime rate went up 2.2x while it went up 6.0x times in Nebraska.

I am not saying we are better off. I am saying that the Supreme Court decisions of the early 1960s has nothing to do with violent crime today (or at least that any claim that it does is not backed by statistical evidence in so many different ways - by state, by country, by year, by status before or after the Supreme Court decision). Causation is a much higher bar to prove than correlation, and no one who claims that the Supreme Court decisions have the 1960s have led to greater violence rates have even proved the correlation (and I have presented evidence that proves no correlation exists). Once you jump over the correlation bar, then we can discuss causation.


27 posted on 12/17/2012 4:56:55 AM PST by exhaustguy
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