Rude and Uninformed. A reflection on a recent billboard campaign by Atheist Humanists

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | December 20, 2012 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[ILS21R]

>>No one has proven me to be in error about anything.<<

The Bible documents the creation of the universe. Man has yet to explain it, let alone, replicate it. When he can, you’ll be right.

[A_perfect_lady]

So putting the poster about your Dad in a subway would be ok? :>)

Oh, is God your daddy? I see. Don't feel bad, a lot of people don't have a name on the ol' birth certificate where "father" goes.

[A_perfect_lady]

A yes. A “different standard of evidence.” You said a mouthful there, didntcha?

[A_perfect_lady]

You are quite wrong. Rape is not adultery. That is why a man who beats and rapes his wife will face a legal situation if she presses charges. At least, in civilized countries.

That is also why, in the Bible, the penalty for raping a virgin is no different from merely having sex with her: you either pay and marry her, or get stoned to death. If the girl can prove she put up a fight, she might escape stoning, but she'll still be sold as a wife to her rapist. That's the Middle East mentality at work, then and now.

And by the way, it's not an "analogy." It's an observation. There is no provision for rape in the Bible because it is not and was never a particular concern to the Middle Eastern male mind. If pointing that out makes me racist, I really don't care.

Beating and killing your own child for disobedience is also a feature in the Bible and the modern Middle East. Again, something that the Western world came to view as "not good."

Also note the Western revulsion for cruelty to household pets. Nothing about that in the Bible. We are a different culture. Why you want to embrace something that still smacks of the same primitive, tribal violence as their modern day descendents in Egypt, Syria, and "Palestine," I do not know.

And yes, the Jesus story is pure spiritual socialism. Rather than burn in Hell for a certain time until your sins are paid for... you get the free ride. Just like we don't like anymore to work and save for what we want, we don't want to pay in the imaginary afterlife for what we did.

You look, take an honest look at all the liberal Christians in this country, and you will see they have more quotes from Jesus on giving away money, taking care of the poor, the evils of being too rich, than anything we have on how the government should not provide social services. The fact is, your God is the god of the Arab world, your Jesus is a socialist, and your world view in incoherent and silly.

[A_perfect_lady]

Mao and Stalin both rejected God

And millions of mass-murders have used guns. What's your point?

[Wiser now]

Factually you are ignorant of the Bible. Jesus would not have been a socialist and there are many, many passages to confirm that.
The most important fact is this: Jesus did not get involved in the government, and would never endorse a system that teaches people to worship or rely on the government for their sustenance.He taught that we were to rely on Him for that: “But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things (food and clothing, etc.)shall be added to you.” Matt.6:33. He did not spend His time preaching about the evils of money. In fact, compared with the scriptures about the need to turn away from sin, the scriptures that speak of the poor are few.
You speak of the numbers who are turning away as though they are correct and have gained more wisdom; in fact they are disobedient and are part of the Great Apostacy predicted by Jesus.
Liberalism is immaturity, cloaked with the pretense of moral and intellectual superiority.
Biblically any sex outside a marriage is adultery. That would include rape. So it is covered by the 7th Commandment.

[A_perfect_lady]

Jesus... would never endorse a system that teaches people to worship or rely on the government for their sustenance

Oh, yes, I forgot that Freepers know Jesus's mind through and through. You know what he would do and what he wouldn't. And you know just how to interpet what he says to support your view, and ignore what doesn't.

Why? Because he is an projection of your own super-imposed over a legend which is mostly invention created around the time of the Siege of Jerusalem. That's why liberals have a liberal Jesus and conservatives have a conserative Jesus. Jesus, like God, is whatever you want him to be. Jews wanted him to be the savior of Jerusalem. Greeks wanted him to make a nice afterlife. European colonalists wanted him to help conquer foreign lands. Women want him to stand up for women's rights, socialists want him to throw out the money-changers who were making a profit, hippies want him to advocate everyone to chill out, homophobes want him to condemn gays, gays want him to love everyone... and all of them find ways to define him to suit their purpose.

Just like you.

[A_perfect_lady]

And by the way: rape and sex are not quite the same. Unless of course you think the jogger in Central Park “had sex” with several assailants who beat her so severely she almost died.

[ILS21R]

>>Beating and killing your own child for disobedience is also a feature in the Bible and the modern Middle East. Again, something that the Western world came to view as "not good."<<

He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:

Put them to death: the verb is used metaphorically to signify, to deprive a thing of its power, to destroy its strength.

10 Commandments: Exodus 20:13 Thou Shall Not Kill

So you're wrong again. Tell you what... if you get the universe thing figured out before Christmas, PM me and we'll tell the world together.

[A_perfect_lady]

No, my dear, it's not a metaphor. You want it to be, so you say it is, and you think that because you said it, well, then it must be. But it's not. When Abraham was willing to kill Isaac, no law was being broken. Children, wives, and slaves were property of the head of the household. That is Middle Eastern culture to this very day.

Americans just go through scriptures and say "Oh, God didn't really mean this. And he didn't really mean that. And he changed his mind about this." Until the Bible says whatever you want it to say.

Gays do the same thing. They can explain away anything about homosexuality. You quote them something, they pick a different quote that "nullifies" it. All you religious folks are the same, from the muslims on down. You simply decide that God wants what you like. You do as you please, and you just know that God approves.

[Wiser now]

I think you mean you have rejected the Jesus of the Bible because He isn’t what you think He should be. Hence your outrage over “Thou shalt not rape” not being the eleventh commandment.

[A_perfect_lady]

I'm not outraged at all. Disgusted, maybe, but I never even noticed it till someone pointed it out to me last month. I thought "Wow, you're right... but that's typical of the Middle East." Then I about all the other things that are not in the Bible and also not in modern day Middle Eastern society, but ARE a part of American morals and values, and I realized... that's some other culture's values. I'm American. Here is yet one more reason to turn away from that convoluted bunch of Old World legends, and refuse, as an American, to bow to the Middle East.

And another thing. Look at how many Christians there are in the world. Look at the Christian populations of Africa, Europe, Asia, South America, Central America. Look at the Catholic church. The vast, vast majority of Christians find Socialism to be perfectly compatable with the teachings of Jesus. Only a tiny handful, the white American conservative branch, just knows... KNOWS... that everyone is wrong except them.

Then they say atheists are arrogant. Heh.

[ILS21R]

>>No, my dear, it’s not a metaphor. You want it to be, so you say it is, and you think that because you said it, well, then it must be. But it’s not. When Abraham was willing to kill Isaac, no law was being broken.<<

Sorry sweetie. It was a metaphor. Since Exodus 20:13 precedes
Exodus 21:17, it cannot be interpreted any other way.

Who told Abraham to offer his son and why?

[A_perfect_lady]

So if two verses contradict each other, you pick the one you like and call the other a metaphor? That’s convenient. Not as tidy as the Muslim “go by the 2nd one” rule, but far more... elastic, shall we say? The most useful religion is the most elastic, isn’t it?

[ILS21R]

>>So...<<

So so so. You lost. Muslims follow the Bible?

You didn’t answer this:

Who told Abraham to offer his son and why?

And your dodge of the whole universe thing hasn’t gone unnoticed.

I’m on my way to another Christmas party.

Bye for now.

[xzins]

Yes, He is.

(Yours too)

Have a Merry Christmas, APL. Since it is God who opens the heart, it is entirely possible that might happen to you some day.

For all I know, you’re one of His future kids.

After all, it’s all a gift for any of us. There’s no boasting about it. He is the One who has done it. It’s not like I’ve informed Him.

So, may the Unseen Hand be powerful in your life, APL.

[xzins]

Yes. Different than mathematics, for example.

However, let me ask you this. Can you prove that OJ was guilty? How did the jury see it?

[Wiser now]

Again you are making sweepint assumptions about what Christians believe without really knowing.
On the one hand you insist Jesus is a myth and on the other hand you tell me what you know He said and believes. You cannot have it both ways.
If it is all a myth you cannot logically be angry over what the Bible may or may not say, or what people believe.
I’m done.

[A_perfect_lady]

No, I do know what Christians believe, because most of them can't keep their mouths shut. As for Jesus, there is nothing incoherent about analyzing a character in a book, even a fictional one, by his comments. It's called literary criticism.

But I'm willing to be "done" too, because if there's one thing I've found about dealing with Christians, it's that if you answer them, they call you rude for daring to speak up on this forum, and if you don't they accuse you of having run away from their Bright and Shining Truth.

The other thing I've found is that arguing with them, even if only to show you haven't retreated, is like arguing with a mental patient firmly convinced that he is Napoleon. He has an answer for everything. The answer makes no sense most of the time, but he'll go on forever because he's a mental patient and believing in some fantasy is his whole identity.

[CityCenter]

What you object to is not a problem of belief or disbelief because people who claim to hold no belief in God do as much damage in the world as those who do. Maybe more.

The problem is one of being human and if you believe there is no divine, then the only place you really have to look to is within yourself.