Skip to comments.Is this Historical Christmas?
Posted on 12/22/2012 6:02:55 PM PST by Phinneous
...An article on the pagan origins of Christmas...
I know there are a ton of Christian textual and historical scholars on this site...so soften it up for me. Are we really supposed to be at each others' throats as this article would have us be? Are these commonly-accepted facts among Christians or is it a little/lot inflated for the purpose of distancing Jews from Christmas?
“The Evangelical Dictionary of Theology” explains that the earliest Christians did not have a time when they regularly observed Christ’s birth. However, by the late fourth century it was generally celebrated in churches. December 25 became recognized as Christmas day because it provided a Christian alternative to pagan festivals related to the Roman god Saturn and the winter solstice.
I don’t know about at each other’s throats, but the core reality is that pretty much all the big Christian holiday traditions, including the timing, are stolen from pagans. Not just Christmas either, Easter has the same issues going on, ever wonder where that egg laying bunny appears in the Bible?
The author veers into hysteria further into the article, though, calling Christmas a 24 hour repudiation of Judaism. Some Christian groups might look at it that way, but none of my folks ever did. Jesus was a Jew as were all the Apostles. He came to fulfill the Law, not repudiate it.
Many of the customs associated with Christmas actually are an accumulation of practices, some with pagan origins. My maternal grandparents were Lutheran, descended from Moravians, German speaking people. They celebrated Christmas with all their hearts. It had nothing to do with the pagan origins of greenery and a tree, it was Christmas.
I recall Michael Medved taking the opposite tack several years back, attacking these same early American settlers for their refusal to celebrate Christmas. He tried to paint them as almost anti-American, with the American, commercialized Christmas of Macy's Parades, department store Santas, electric lights decorating everything and an orgy of buying gifts as a kind of interfaith cultural event that was a defining quality of what it meant to be American.
I thought he was wrong. There would be no America without those early settlers who eschewed celebration of Christmas. But, this other Jewish author is just as wrongheaded in trying to sow division, even if many of his facts are not disputed by many Christians themselves.
Does this make any sense at all, lol?
The audio at the link is MUCH more entertaining than the essay.
Not sure what the big deal is, some Jewish months are named after pagan gods. Christian scholars don’t deny historical cultural milieus either.
The Jewish practices around Nittel Nacht might amaze contemporary Christians more.
The information is accurate and correct based on historical writings. Do about it what you will. Dec 25th is NOT the date of my Savior’s birth.....does not mean I can’t enjoy my family’s company and some spritz cookies.
And it came to pass that it was time for Christ to arise from the dead,but the angels labored in vain to move the stone.There were small rocks and pebbles blocking the movemant of the stone.Lo a small rabbit came along and dug out the rocks and pebbles from the path of the stone and the angels were able to open the tomb.When the Lord appeared He blessed the rabbit with eternal life and required it each year to spread the Lords message on the day of His resurection.The small rabbit gifted Christ with a boiled egg as the Lord was hungry.
This is the Biblical basis for the easter bunny,and can be found in the lost books of the Bible hidden in the vatican.
It doesn’t matter. Our custom now celebrates the birth of our Savior. I am so tired of “pagan” articles that try to spoil our celebrations. He lives! We honor HIM! Amen.
Oooo, I want to read the Gospel according to Bunny!
Although, could be from the books buried beneath the Hefner mansion...
I suspect that a bunny with a waffle on it’s head carries a finer shade of meaning than a bunny with a pancake on it’s head.
Am I correct in my suspicion?
Those lost books also explain why Jesus walked on the water,,,Sadly he had never learned to swim,,,
I like waffle the waffle translation better.
And here I thought it was the Jewish moonwalk
Reminds me of Reepicheep and his friends who chewed the ropes off of Aslan in The Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe.
I had it explained to me that many of the “pagans” were prophets of the coming of Christ. Made sense.
As a biblical Christian who does not celebrate the traditions of Christmas or Easter - and instead follows the biblical holy days - I think in our current state of societal collapse, it is a grave mistake for Christians to focus on bashing other Christians and their traditions and appointed Feasts.
While the Body of Christ in the USA lo, these many decades of peace and prosperity, has been busy tearing down any and every Christian who is not sitting under our own denominational roofs - we lost our culture to secular government-worshipping hedonists. At the same time we have become lukewarm as a faith to where Christianity stands for little outside of adding a new ATM or coffee shop in the lobby to attract those seeking Sunday entertainment while calling it religion.
I don’t keep the traditions of mainstream Christianity - but I acknowledge that we were a better country when they were respected and honored by the bulk of our people just a few generations ago.
We can argue until the cows come how regarding which day is Jesus Christ’s birthday. We can even argue the fact it is not disclosed in scripture, nor is there any evidence in the Gospels or the Acts of anyone keeping the date. (I’m of the understanding it was most likely sometime in the early Fall around 4 B.C.).
What IS important - is that Jesus Christ WAS BORN, and became a human being for the express purpose of becoming our Passover sacrifice for sin. Without His birth, there is no redemption to life for mankind, as our sins have condemned us to eternal death as scripture plainly states.
Since many people may actually cast a thought about Jesus during this time of year - now is the perfect opportunity to encourage the faith and show others the way of God more perfectly, that our faith would not perish amidst the gathering darkness around us.
The world needs Jesus Christ, and mankind NEEDS His Kingdom on this earth. Let us continue to seek first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness - that revival might come to a nation on the brink of absolute ruination.
by Jimmy Akin (Catholic Answers)
Should Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus? There is no evidence the apostles did. When did it become a feast day? Werent birthdays a pagan thing?
Why was he named Jesus when, as stated in Matthew 1:23, the Messiah was to be called Immanuel?
Matthew 1:23 quotes Isaiah 7:14 as a virgin will conceive from the Septuagint, but the original Hebrew uses the word almah meaning young woman of marriagable age. Was Matthew wrong to quote this?
What does Josephs reaction, in Matthew 1:19, to the news of Marys pregnancy tell us about his character?
Why would Joseph take a 9-month pregnant Mary to Bethlehem instead of taking her earlier? Why did he take her at all? Couldnt he have just left her in Nazareth?
These are among the questions we explore in this weeks episode of the Jimmy Akin Podcast!
Click "Part 1" to listen to the answers to these questions:
1. Ive heard it wasnt uncommon for some people to sleep in the stable of an inn during busy times? Was that true?
2. What was the Star of Bethlehem? A conjunction of planets, meteor, comet, supernatural event? What does the Church or Church Fathers say about it?
3. What is significant about gold, frankincense, and myrrh?
4. How did the birth of Jesus come to be celebrated on December 25?
5. Why do Eastern Orthodox churches celebrate Christmas on January 7?
6. What light does the Ark of the Covenant shed on Mary's perpetual virginity, and what evidence do we have for her perpetual virginity?
Click "Part 2" to listen:
Very fine post.
The vast divide is not between denominations. Instead it is between believers and non-believers and furthermore between those who hold their religion in an orthodox manner and those who wear it like a fashion garment, put on and taken off like a club coat at the country club.
Today we have a choice...keep the biblical holy days of the Lord Jesus Christ or observe man made holidays.
The funny thing is that we all know if we read the Bible when Christmas should be, nine months after Gabriel told Mary she would become pregnant. She was told in late June or early July. That puts Christmas in late March or early April. Roman taxes were paid in spring, just like they are now here. Christmas can be celebrated anytime you want but The son of God was born in the flesh in the spring.
Gabriel told Mary in December.
Yeshua was born in september.
All the fake pagan ‘gods’ were born December 25.
Catholics love pagan nonsense, and fake Christians like Constantine, who was born on...
Gabriel told Mary in December.
Yeshua was born in september.
Here is what Luke says:
And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
January was still the 1st month by the King James writers.
Yes, but what of the original writers? Which calendar were they themselves using as framework? The Jewish calender is different. Not only in when it starts, but since it doesn't keep exact pace with the solar year, that introduces another variable. Add to that the change from Julian (which didn't keep pace either, but at a different rate of error than the Jewish) to Gregorian calender in the West, and it raises some question & doubt. The Gregorian has had some changes too, I think.
Not being able to read koine Greek (that of the age, or the later koine) or Hebrew or Aramaic, I can't solve the puzzle, personally. At the risk of calling in local cranks --- I think I've seen it attempted... and in another place possibly more correctly done, but cannot recall the outcome.It was said to be difficult to examine, and feel confident one had properly sifted the variables.
One place to start would be analysis of the oldest extant manuscripts? Where there any month "names" used in closely related texts? I don't *think* so, which might leave the question of which calendar the writers were at that time referring to? Jewish calender, or Roman?
In common usage, 1 January was regarded as New Year's Day and celebrated as such, but from the 12th century until 1751 the legal year in England began on 25 March (Lady Day). So, for example, the Parliamentary record lists the execution of Charles I on 30 January as occurring in 1648 (as the year did not end until 24 March), although modern histories adjust the start of the year to 1 January and record the execution as occurring in 1649.
Most Western European countries changed the start of the year to 1 January before they adopted the Gregorian calendar. For example, Scotland changed the start of the Scottish New Year to 1 January in 1600 (this means that 1599 was a short year). England, Ireland and the British colonies changed the start of the year to 1 January in 1752 (so 1751 was a short year with only 282 days) though the tax year has stayed as 25 March to this day (being 6 April in the new calendar). Later that year in September the Gregorian calendar was introduced throughout Britain and the British colonies (see the section Adoption). These two reforms were implemented by the Calendar (New Style) Act 1750.
And it came to pass that it was time for Christ to arise from the dead,but the angels labored in vain to move the stone.
I like to celebrate Christs birthday, as long as they keep santa clas out of it.
I don't care. I will celebrate Christmas and Christ's birth. I will put up my CHRISTmas trees, snowmen, and, yes, even figurines (not idols) of Santa Clauses. We have always been careful to explain that Santa Claus represents, like the wise men, a time when we can give without receiving. I'll go to church and sing Christmas carols and have fun. I make it a point to wish people (including my Jewish friends) a very happy holiday. They know what I'm talking about. Others are free to sit in a dreary house and complain about the pagan traditions.
We don't pray to the tree or bow down before it so we know it is not connected with worship or pagan gods or goddesses...
We spend the time and money buying and wrapping meaningless Christmas presents...Fight the traffic...Fight the crowds...Fight with each other because of all the stress...
Many towns have a Christmas Day parade...Christians as well as others flock to them...Sometimes you might see a Nativity scene but mostly it's Santa Claus and reindeer...Music...A big party...
So why do we have the tree and celebrate that Holiday, you ask???
Because the kids and Grandkids would freak out if we didn't...Because I get a couple of paid vacation days...
True, it does afford some Christians a scheduled time to more focus upon Jesus and his birth and his mission...And churches do capitalize upon this...
However, if the Christians ever accepted the idea that Jesus was born probably in October instead of the Winter Solstice would we continue to celebrate his birthday??? Would we incorporate a Christmas tree and it's associated madness???
I take it for what it is...
Do Amazon next year. Half hour and I was done. ;O)
C S Lewis based his story of Reepicheep off of the true story of the rabbit and the stone.The Narnia stories are all based on true events in the lost trranslations.
Sheldon: Oh, yes. We had a tree, we had a manger, we had an inflatable Santa Claus with plastic reindeer on the front lawn. And to make things even more jolly, there were so many blinking lights on the house they induced neighbourhood-wide seizures.
Penny: So I take it you dont want to help us trim the tree.
Sheldon: I do not. But if you insist on decorating a spider-infested fire hazard in my home I would request that you add this.
Penny: What is it?
Sheldon: Youre kidding, right? Its a bust of Sir Isaac Newton.
Penny: Oh, sure, sure, yeah. Very Christmassy.
Sheldon: Wait, excuse me, but its much more Christmassy than anything youve put on the tree.
Leonard: Here we go.
Sheldon: December 25, 1642, Julian calendar, Sir Isaac Newton is born. Jesus, on the other hand, was actually born in the summer. His birthday was moved to coincide with a traditional pagan holiday that celebrated the winter solstice with lit fires and slaughtered goats. Which, frankly, sounds like more fun than 12 hours of church with my mother followed by a fruitcake.
No, you are completely wrong for two reasons.
First, the pagan catholic lies were generally accepted in all of Europe, and that pagan bias is prevalent in both the KJV and the Geneva.
Second, is that there was no process at that time to resolve the biblical years into our pagan calendar. The biblical calendar was a complete mystery at that time, partly due to the contrivance of Talmudic Jews in recreating the biblical calendar around the era of the renaissance.
We know that the fall fiests were the prophecies of Christ’s commings, and both were written, from Moses time, to be in the fall. All of the colateral information given in the gospels also only fits the fall, including the ‘wise men’ following Daniel’s revelation to their ancestors in Babylon regarding the constellation Betula.
One has to disregard all the obvious things that are known to swallow the DEcember 25 lie.
>> “ Are we really supposed to be at each others’ throats as this article would have us be?” <<
If we are to worship him in SPIRIT, and in TRUTH, then yes, that has to be, for most will follow the wide gate unto destruction, and only the few, the remnant, will find the narrow gate.
Do you want to try to tell that pagan lie to the Lord at the Great White Throne judgement?
There is no Biblical basis for anything “Easter.”
When the Lord arose, he didn’t need for the stone to be removed, for he was then in his perfect, immortal body, and was seen walking through stone walls after his resurrection.
-— There is no Biblical basis for anything Easter. -—
Or Sola Scriptura, not that anyone seems to care.
Is that why Christ almost always preceeded his teaching with “it is written...?”
Hollywood only has 10-gay-writers for all of TV.
I’ve heard that version 100 times this year alone.
Was He referring to the New Testament, which did not yet exist? Or is the Old Testament to be our guide?
Notice that He doesn't command us to settle intra-Christian disputes via Scripture.
"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
“...contrivance.... blah blah...”
Jews are quite certain of the calendar from the first day of creation until today, the 10th day of the 4th month in the 5773rd day since creation, actually. Contrive other reasons if you can’t resolve your calendar.
>> “Jews are quite certain of the calendar from the first day of creation until today” <<
There is over 200 years of injected error in the current Jewish calendar. That can be proven by simply comparing historically recorded astronomical events with the present configuration. Perhaps you think computers are unreliable, but I seldom (never) catch mine screwing up.
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