Posted on 12/30/2012 9:28:32 AM PST by narses
"And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living," Matt 22:32.
At the Transfiguration, the souls of long-dead Moses and Elijah appeared alongside Jesus. "And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him." Matt 17:3. How could Moses and Elijah "talk" with Jesus if they were "asleep"? Their souls were alive and awake. The fact that the Bible shows Moses and Elijah "talking" with Jesus conclusively disproves your friend's idea that souls are "dead" or "asleep" until the general judgment.
Scripture shows that heaven’s inhabitants hear us, which they couldn't do if they were "dead." “Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do His word, hearkening to the voice of His word! Bless the Lord, all His hosts, His ministers that do His will!” Psalm 103:20-21. “Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise Him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!” Psalm 148:1-2. These verses would make no sense if those in heaven could not hear us.
Those in heaven not only pray with us, they pray for us and can present our requests to God. “When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints,” Rev. 5:8. “Another angel with a golden censer came and stood at the altar; he was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that is before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel,” Rev. 8:3-4. These verses show (1) those in heaven have access to our prayers, and (2) those in heaven can offer our prayers to God. None of this would make any sense whatsoever if those in heaven were "dead" or "asleep."
Part of our spiritual inheritance under the New Covenant is access to the souls of the justified. “But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, AND TO THE SPIRITS OF THE RIGHTEOUS MADE PERFECT, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.” Heb. 12:22-24.
Col 4:3
At the same time, pray for us, too, that God may open a door to us for the word, to speak of the mystery of Christ, for which I am in prison.
Rom 15:30
... join me in the struggle by your prayers to God on my behalf,
Jam 5:14
Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord
Why didn’t you answer the questions put to you asking who the twenty four elders were?
Those were all to living people. No help to your arguement.
Qualifying that some, people who were physically living here on the earth.
And no, it is no help to the praying to saints whose physical bodies have died argument.
What are they doing? Are they just standing around, are they working, are they dancing and singing?
Really, what are they doing?
This is not a sarcastic question but one that has troubled me whenever I read of the AfterLife.........
You can do both and You Must
...’The only one who can forgive a debt is the one to whom it is owed.
Jesus gave the debt for mankind -
He did not give us a Free Pass!!
Sure He did. It's called a gift.
Ephesians 2:8-10 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
If I can work for my salvation, that would give me something of which I could boast of before God. Then who gets the credit and glory?
You are absolutely right. But those following the doctrine of Sola Scriptura typically do not believe anything that is not specifically stated in the Bible. What a shame, for there is much more to the Word of God than just what appears in the Bible.
There is the living Word of God as well as the written Word of God. The Church founded by Jesus Christ (and BTW is written in Sacred Scripture) is testimony to the living Word of God. If someone other than Jesus Christ had founded the Church, then it could be argued that Sacred Scripture is the only authority given by God.
Jesus gets the glory.
That's why you have the argument...Jesus founded the church, not The Church...
And what is the 'living word of God' outside of the scriptures???
Please explain the difference.
And what is the 'living word of God' outside of the scriptures???
The Catholic Church is the Word of God. The message relayed to us from the Blessed Mother at Fatima is the Word of God. God's daily intervention and miracles are the Word of God. 'Creation' is the Word of God and would be so even if it had not appeared in the Bible. Answers to our prayers (whether the answer is 'yes' or 'no') is the Word of God. These are just a few examples.
Which is another desperate attempt which provides zero example or support for praying to the departed. Except to those who, in condescension to us, must find something in Scripture for the tradition of PTDS.
What are your credentials? And are you still claiming that Christmas and Easter are pagan? That worship on Sunday is not scriptural? Hmmmm?
Not when man can boast of having a part in it.
When you receive a birthday or Christmas gift, how much and how long to you have to work to pay the person back for it?
Or how much do you have to work to earn it from them?
When Was the Last Time You Meditated on Heaven? That Long?! Try This.
The Sinner's Guide - Ch 9. The Ninth Motive for Practicing Virtue: The Thought of Heaven
Pope speaks with priests from his diocese about Heaven and Hell
STUNG BY MOST VENOMOUS OF CREATURES, MAN SAYS HE ENCOUNTERED 'LIGHT' OF LORD'
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 9: Heaven
Heaven and hell seem to be forgotten
Imagine there's a heaven
Limbo and the Hope of Salvation
Catholic Caucus: The Resurrection of the Dead
Resurrection Means a Glorious Existence
Apparently his credentials are that he posts a lot, seems to be educated, and whose argument are worthy to be posted here.
But which, unlike on CA which are paranoid about “anti-Catholics” who may expose them too strongly (they banned me for life for responding to a RC spiel against Prots), here they can be dealt with.
It does take time to work to the earning. Such a yearning question... huggggs to metmom
What are your credentials? And are you still claiming that Christmas and Easter are pagan? That worship on Sunday is not scriptural? Hmmmm?
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