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The Rapture (Part 2) (Dispensational Caucus)
Bible Prophecy Blog ^ | March 33, 2012 | Dr. Andy Woods

Posted on 12/31/2012 12:56:34 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta

My previous article commenced a series of articles on the rapture. We began with the question, "What is the Rapture?" This question can best be answered by noting ten truths about the rapture from 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-58. In this first article, we saw that the rapture is an important doctrine and not something that can be marginalized or explained away as a secondary doctrine. We now move to our second point.

The Rapture Is Distinct from the Second Advent

Second, the rapture will be an event which is distinct from the Second Advent. In other words, the Second Coming of Christ is divided into two phases. There would be part 1 of the Second Coming of Christ and then part 2 of the Second Coming of Christ. After He comes to rescue His church, He will return at the end of the Tribulation period when He brings judgment upon planet earth. Some may think it strange to divide the Second Coming of Jesus Christ into two distinct phases. Interestingly, when we go back into the Old Testament and we study various truths and prophecies related to His First Coming, we very quickly get the idea that different prophecies are saying different things. For example, Isaiah 53 describes the Messiah suffering and dying. On the other hand, Isaiah 9:6-7 describes the Messiah ruling and reigning. How could He come and suffer, and how could He come and rule and reign at the same time? The only way to harmonize these passages is to conclude that there must be two comings of Christ. There must be one coming when He comes and dies to pay the penalty for the sins of the world and another coming of Jesus to rule and to reign. So we can conclude by studying the Old Testament that the coming of Christ takes place in phases. In essence, this same approach leads one to the teaching of the rapture. The New Testament describes the Second Coming of Christ in two different ways. Thus, the only conclusion we can come to is that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will also take place in two phases.

The Rapture

For example, at the rapture Christ will come in the air (1 Thess. 4:16-17). However, in the Second Advent Jesus Christ will come back to the earth (Job 19:25). His feet will physically touch the Mount of Olives (Acts 1:9-12; Zech. 14:4). At the rapture, Christ will come for His saints. In other words, He will come back for His church (1 Thess. 4:15-17). By contrast, in the Second Advent, He will come back with His saints (Jude 14; Rev. 19:14). Moreover, the rapture will be an event of great blessing. Everybody who is involved in the rapture will be blessed (Titus 2:13; John 14:1-4). Thus, Paul uses this doctrine to comfort the Thessalonians (1 Thess. 4:18). On the other hand, at the Second Advent of Christ there will be tremendous judgment (2 Thess. 1:7-8; 2:8; Isa. 11:4). Revelation 19:15 describes a blood bath as the Christ-rejecting nations of the world will oppose Christ at His Second Advent. Christ will come to defeat and declare victory over them. In addition, when Christ comes in the rapture, it will only affect believers. It will involve Christians, that is those who are “in Christ” (1 Thess. 4:16). However, when Jesus Christ comes at the Second Advent, His coming will directly impact both believers and unbelievers (Matt. 25:31-46; Rev. 19:15).

Another distinction is that the rapture will be an event that is visible only to those that are “in Christ” (1 Thess. 4:16). Christ will meet believers in the air. However, the Second Advent is something that will be visible to the entire world. "Every eye will see Him" (Rev. 1:7). Another simple distinction is that the rapture will be an event that is announced by an archangel (1 Thess. 4:16). By contrast, the Second Advent of Christ will involve myriads of angels who will accompany Christ as He returns to the earth (Matt. 25:31). In addition, the rapture will be a resurrection. First Thessalonians 4:16 speaks of a resurrection associated with the rapture when it indicates that, "the dead in Christ will rise first." By contrast, at the Second Advent of Christ there will not be an instantaneous resurrection. Finally, when Christ comes at the rapture, He will come to rescue the church (1 Thess. 1:10). However, when He comes in the Second Advent, He will come to rescue Israel (Matt. 23:37-39; 24:31).

As we carefully scrutinize, read, and examine the prophecies related to the return of Christ we see His return described in totally different ways. The only logical conclusion one can reach is that the Second Coming of Christ must occur in two phases. As will be shown later in this series, there must first be a rapture before the Second Advent can occur seven or more years later. This identical logic applies to the Old Testament teaching that the coming of Christ must have two phases as well. He comes to suffer and die (Isa. 53), and then He comes to rule and reign (Isa. 9:6-7). Identically, the New Testament reveals that the Second Coming of Christ also has two distinct phases. Thus, not only is the rapture an important doctrine, but it is also an event that is distinct from the Second Advent of Christ.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
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1 posted on 12/31/2012 12:56:42 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: HushTX; righttackle44; patriot preacher; FrdmLvr; caww; bareford101; fishtank; Shelayne; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 12/31/2012 12:59:24 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta (In the last days, mockers will come with their mocking... (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Hi Gio,

Howdy, Brother! Can we talk sometime? PM me I will give you my cell number!

Agape,

Typing on a tablet sucks BTW!


3 posted on 12/31/2012 1:06:33 PM PST by STD (“Cogito, ergo armatum sum)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
His feet will physically touch the Mount of Olives (Acts 1:9-12; Zech. 14:4).

I hope you and yours had a wonderful Christmas and will have a happy New Year.

I've been wondering who will be at the Mount of Olives when Jesus returns with us. Believing Jews fled when they realized that the day of Jacob's trouble was upon them and will have been protected by GOD for 3 1/2 years. So who is in Jerusalem?

4 posted on 12/31/2012 1:33:04 PM PST by wmfights
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Thanks for the ping.

I do have a problem with the wording used.

“There would be part 1 of the Second Coming of Christ and then part 2 of the Second Coming of Christ.”

Christ does not come to get us in the Rapture. We are raised to “meet Him in the air”. Trying to split Christ’s “coming” into 2 separate events leads to confusion and I don’t think should be used. There is no place in scripture that teaches that Christ’s second coming is actually a second and a third coming.

5 posted on 12/31/2012 1:33:30 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Excuse me, but where in the Bible is the word "Rapture" (in this sense) employed?

Wherever it occurs, I expect that the words "Limbo," "transsubstantiation," and "infant baptism" ought to be nearby.

Regards,

6 posted on 12/31/2012 1:37:11 PM PST by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: wmfights
Thank you for the good wishes, wmfights, and I also hope that you and your family had a blessed Christmas and will have a wonderful New Year!

As for who will be in Jerusalem when Christ comes back, that is a good question! It is one of those details that we wish God had been more specific about!

7 posted on 12/31/2012 1:42:35 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta (In the last days, mockers will come with their mocking... (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: alexander_busek
This is a Dispensational Caucus thread, but I'll go ahead and address your question.

Where in the Bible is the word "Bible"? Where in the Bible is the word "trinity"?

The original Greek used in the 1 Thessalonians Scripture that speaks about the event commonly known as the "Rapture" is harpazo, which means a "snatching away". The word "Rapture" comes from "rapio" which can be found in the Latin Vulgate and is used to describe the Rapture.

As far as the other words you listed, they don't exist anywhere in my Bible so I can't help you there.

8 posted on 12/31/2012 1:47:42 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta (In the last days, mockers will come with their mocking... (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: CynicalBear
Well, He actually does "come" from Heaven to retrieve us so I guess that's where the two parts to His Second Coming originates.

There is no second and third coming, but we do know that there will be an event where Jesus "comes" from Heaven to get His bride and there will be a time when Jesus literally, physically returns to earth.

9 posted on 12/31/2012 1:50:17 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta (In the last days, mockers will come with their mocking... (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

My point is that no where in prophecy will anyone find Christ “coming” to earth other than at His birth and when He comes as King. Splitting hairs perhaps but that’s what unbelievers will do when we try to teach or explain.


10 posted on 12/31/2012 2:04:50 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

My point is that no where in prophecy will anyone find Christ “coming” to earth other than at His birth and when He comes as King. Splitting hairs perhaps but that’s what unbelievers will do when we try to teach or explain.


11 posted on 12/31/2012 2:05:02 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I dislike the current Christian terminology of “first” and “second” coming, but am in agreement with the scripture (I don’t believe first and second are scriptural terms, per se).

Jesus has been coming to us many times, from everlasting. We see Him as (again using traditional Christian terms) as Theophanies in the Old Testament.

Micah 5:2

But you, Bethlehem Ephratah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall he come forth to me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.


12 posted on 12/31/2012 2:06:08 PM PST by BereanBrain
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To: CynicalBear

Micah 5:2.


13 posted on 12/31/2012 2:13:44 PM PST by BereanBrain
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To: BereanBrain
Well we do know He came one time to die for us and we do know that He will literally return to earth a second time. In between times one and two He leaves Heaven and descends to take His bride up in the clouds to take the bride back to be, as He puts it, "where (I) am".

So we won't call it a "first" coming and a "second" coming but we do know from Scripture that He came to earth once and will come to earth again, a second time.

14 posted on 12/31/2012 2:30:56 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta (In the last days, mockers will come with their mocking... (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: BereanBrain

Micah 5:2 is talking about Christ’s second coming to the New Jerusalem after the battle of Armageddon at the end of the tribulation. He will then reign on this earth for 1000 years.


15 posted on 12/31/2012 2:46:50 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Great posts. Somehow, ever day, I think the Sound of the Trumpet is getting closer. Keep listening.


16 posted on 12/31/2012 3:13:11 PM PST by righttackle44 (Take scalps. Leave the bodies as a warning.)
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To: alexander_busek

Excuse me, but where in the Bible is the word “Rapture” (in this sense) employed?

Wherever it occurs, I expect that the words “Limbo,” “transsubstantiation,” and “infant baptism” ought to be nearby.


Amen to that.


17 posted on 12/31/2012 3:34:03 PM PST by ravenwolf
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To: CynicalBear

‘My point is that no where in prophecy will anyone find Christ “coming” to earth other than at His birth and when He comes as King.’

1 Thess. 4 says that he will come to take believers up into the air. He doesn’t actually come to the ground in that event.


18 posted on 12/31/2012 3:38:32 PM PST by lurk
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To: CynicalBear

And so when Jesus came and appeared to His disciples (after the resurrection), was not that a “coming” or “appearance” as well?

I think you are reading what others are saying, rather than reasoning from the scriptures for yourself.

Jesus is not a created being. He is God, himself, in the flesh, shown to us through the Trinity. As such, when any have beheld God, they have seen Jesus. For in Him, the fullness of the Godhead dwells (Col 2:9. That is to say, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit do not have bodies in the likeness of men, only Jesus has that body.

I the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God......The Word became flesh and lived among us....(John 1:1)

Jesus is not limited by our understanding. He can come and go as He pleases.
And as Micah 5:2 states, He has been doing FOREVER.


19 posted on 12/31/2012 5:14:33 PM PST by BereanBrain
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To: BereanBrain
>>And so when Jesus came and appeared to His disciples (after the resurrection), was not that a “coming” or “appearance” as well?<<

No, that was His ascension to heaven.

>>I think you are reading what others are saying, rather than reasoning from the scriptures for yourself.<<

So you don’t believe there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ on this earth after the Tribulation? Oh, and I get that from scripture not “reading what others say”. Reading what others say leads to many errors if not checked with scripture.

>>Jesus is not a created being. He is God, himself, in the flesh, shown to us through the Trinity. As such, when any have beheld God, they have seen Jesus. For in Him, the fullness of the Godhead dwells (Col 2:9. That is to say, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit do not have bodies in the likeness of men, only Jesus has that body.<<

Um Yeah, and He gave us lot’s of information in the prophecies in scripture.

>>Jesus is not limited by our understanding.<<

You would be correct there.

>>He can come and go as He pleases.<<

He set a plan, made some promises, and told us what they were in scripture. He didn’t allow us to know the day or the hour but other than that He was pretty clear to anyone who wants to know.

20 posted on 12/31/2012 5:27:58 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: alexander_busek
Excuse me, but where in the Bible is the word "Rapture" (in this sense) employed?

In 1 Thessalonians 4:17, the English term term "caught up" is a translation of `arpagesometha. The root is "harapazo" which translates into "rapio" in the Latin. "Rapture" means to be "caught up."

There is no question that the concept of "rapture" or the catching-up of the saints who are alive at the coming of the Lord is taught in the scripture. The question is WHEN in the sequence of the days, months and years previous to the return of the Lord the rapture occurs. And on that question, there is much debate.

21 posted on 12/31/2012 5:40:23 PM PST by Guyin4Os (A messianic ger-tsedek)
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To: CynicalBear

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17


22 posted on 01/01/2013 12:12:18 AM PST by Semper Mark
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To: Semper Mark

The Lord descends but there is no coming to earth there. Notice that we meet Him in the air. Not until after the Tribulation does He come to earth again.


23 posted on 01/01/2013 6:37:39 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
As for who will be in Jerusalem when Christ comes back, that is a good question! It is one of those details that we wish God had been more specific about!

I think it has to be some of the people converted through the evangelizing of the 144K witnesses. Otherwise why would the armies that follow the beast gather to attack Israel.

FWIW, in Rev. 19:14 the armies in heaven are clothed in fine white linen. I believe this is more likely the raptured Bride of Christ rather than Angels. Off hand I'm not familiar with any passage that describes Angels as wearing "fine white linen".

24 posted on 01/01/2013 7:20:36 AM PST by wmfights
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To: CynicalBear; BereanBrain
Micah 5:2 is talking about Christ’s second coming to the New Jerusalem after the battle of Armageddon at the end of the tribulation. He will then reign on this earth for 1000 years.

I think you are right CB, but the passage does say "whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. It seems that Jesus Christ is not limited to 2 visits to Earth.

CB if you are arguing that there is no rapture then who comprises the Bride of Christ and when does the marriage of the Lamb occur? In Rev. 19 the wedding occurs prior to Jesus returning with His Army and the Army He returns with is wearing the same clothing of fine white linen.

25 posted on 01/01/2013 7:33:34 AM PST by wmfights
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To: wmfights
FWIW, in Rev. 19:14 the armies in heaven are clothed in fine white linen. I believe this is more likely the raptured Bride of Christ rather than Angels. Off hand I'm not familiar with any passage that describes Angels as wearing "fine white linen".

"Fine linen" definitely refers to the saints:

7“Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” 8It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints." (Revelation 19: 7,8)

I like your theory that those in Jerusalem will be the saints.

26 posted on 01/01/2013 8:16:00 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta (In the last days, mockers will come with their mocking... (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Thanks

I know it's just one of those little technical questions, but it's fun to try and put the pieces together.

27 posted on 01/01/2013 8:37:08 AM PST by wmfights
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To: wmfights

>> It seems that Jesus Christ is not limited to 2 visits to Earth.<<

Spiritually no. Physical presence on earth however is twice according to scripture.

>> CB if you are arguing that there is no rapture<<

Absolutely not. The rapture will happen and I believe prior to the 7 year tribulation. The rapture however occurs “in the air” and Jesus does not descend “to the earth”.

>> In Rev. 19 the wedding occurs prior to Jesus returning with His Army and the Army He returns with is wearing the same clothing of fine white linen.<<

Yes it does. Compare the Jewish wedding traditions of the wedding, then the 7 days that the bride and groom are away from the public. Then they emerge to begin their lives in public.

There is an excellent explanation here: http://bridalcovenant.com/wedding1.html


28 posted on 01/01/2013 8:39:58 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
The rapture will happen and I believe prior to the 7 year tribulation. The rapture however occurs “in the air” and Jesus does not descend “to the earth”.

Thanks for the clarification, I misunderstood your earlier discussion.

Yes it does. Compare the Jewish wedding traditions of the wedding, then the 7 days that the bride and groom are away from the public. Then they emerge to begin their lives in public.

Thanks for the link, I'll look at it. It is inspiring to me how the LORD establishes patterns of behavior on a micro level that we then see play out on a macro level. Another example that comes to mind is the garden (the LORD interacting in a direct physical one on one basis with humans) and our living in the new Jerusalem at the end of the age.

29 posted on 01/01/2013 9:17:56 AM PST by wmfights
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