Skip to comments.“Excommunication, I’m still glowing”
Posted on 01/03/2013 1:20:24 PM PST by NYer
Marc Barnes says of this women’s ordination video “Ordain a lady: that “This might be the greatest video ever to happen to the Catholic Church.” and goes on in post Why The Catholic Priesthood Is Composed of Dudes
Ordain A Lady YouTube Video
This is certainly the funniest thing I have seen in a while and one of the best defenses for the Church’s teaching. I would have been hard-pressed to make a better parody and the words are genius. Well at least it would be a genius video if it wasn’t real.
Though one thing that really gets my ire up. I am so tired of women’s ordination proponents using Saint Thérèse of Lisieux as if she was also a proponent of women’s ordination. This is pure calumny.
“If only I were a priest! How lovingly I would bear You in my hands, my Jesus, when my voice had brought You down from Heaven. How lovingly I would give. You to souls!” “Yet while wanting to be a priest, I admire St. Francis of Assisi and envy his humility, longing to imitate him in refusing this sublime dignity.”
By the logic they use I guess Therese also wanted to get a sex change operation to be a man since she admired St. Francis’ humility. Funny also how women’s ordination proponents also usually leave out the part about envying humility. But humility does not go hand and hand when you say you are right and the Church guided by the Holy Spirit is wrong.
Other churches try to shmooze me but I'm a catholic, so ordain me!
Lol ... they're not giving up.
It took me a couple of minutes to realize that this wasn’t a parody video of some sort. It was so cheesy and over the top that I thought it just had to be a joke of some sort.
Thanks for the laugh, NYer! These women are on crack.
YouTube: "Comments are disabled for this video."
Just an editorial note that Autofill inserted a period incorrectly after "give", probably because of the atypical capitalization of the word "You" when it refers to any person of the triune God. Should read:
"...How lovingly I would give You to souls!
sigh. All this gender bickering makes my head hurt.
I don’t believe Jesus wanted us to continue getting stuck in a mindset like the pharisees. He wanted our hearts and minds and bodies to serve Him, and our human nature has to go and screw up that simple thing.
I’m not gonna get into the my priest is better than your priest business. We get too focused on man-made and church-made rules and forget to be like Jesus, do like Jesus.
I think He will come back soon anyway and He’ll continue to fulfill every prophecy ever written about Him. I just want to be in His number, and have the sweet task of worshiping Him at His throne! And I bet there will be a lot of female “priests/pastors” who will be there right beside me, just like I can bet that there will be quite a few male priests/pastors who will NOT be there! Gender doesn’t automatically da#$ you to the eternal fires—it’s SIN. I’m not gonna get into the Church’s long list of types of sin, categories of sin, when children become aware of sin, where my soul goes when I die, etc. I’ll leave that to folks who have lots of time on their hands to argue such stuff.
It’s like the different types of baptism. I just tell my daughter it’s man’s way of messing up a very simple commitment to Jesus and then trying to make sure everyone else feels bad or inferior about their kind of baptism. We quarrel and quibble too much about stupid stuff and meanwhile souls and hearts are lost to Him. That is the real shame.
Perhaps I’m wrong here but my understanding was that reserving ordination for men was like reserving it for celibate men - ecclesiology rather than theology. That is its a matter for the church on earth to bind or let loose.
The church could, in theory, permit priests to marry as in the Eastern Orodox churches (although I understand why they do not). Could they not permit female ordination in the same way?
Please excuse any ignorance. I ask because some Orthodox churches are adding diaconesses to the roster again. Apparently it fell out of common practice for 1,400 years but it was never forbidden as such.
The Church cannot permit priests to marry.
However, she can permit married men to be ordained to the priesthood. That is a matter of discipline.
She cannot validly ordain women. That is a matter of doctrine.
my understanding was that reserving ordination for men was like reserving it for celibate men
Not exactly. At the most basic level, the answer to the question of a male priesthood is simple: The New Testament priesthood is the priesthood of Christ Himself. All men who, through the Sacrament of Holy Orders, have become priests (or bishops) participate in Christ's priesthood. And they participate in it in a very special way: They act in persona Christi Capitis, in the person of Christ, the Head of His Body, the Church. The ordination of men is an unbroken tradition that goes back not only to the Apostles but to Christ Himself. Ordination does not simply give a man permission to perform the functions of a priest; it imparts to him an indelible (permanent) spiritual character that makes him a priest, and since Christ and His Apostles chose only men to be priests, only men can validly become priests.
Insofar as the issue of celibacy, All Catholic Churches, with the exception of the Latin Church, allow for a married priesthood, like the Orthodox Churches. Although it is not widely known in our Western world, the Catholic Church is actually a communion of Churches. At present there are 22 Churches that comprise the Catholic Church. While this diversity within the one Catholic Church can appear confusing at first, it in no way compromises the Church's unity. In a certain sense, it is a reflection of the mystery of the Trinity. Just as God is three Persons, yet one God, so the Church is 22 Churches, yet one Church.
Speaking to the 11th General Synod Fathers, gathered for their eighth meeting at the Vatican in 2005, Cardinal Nasrallah Pierre Sfeir, who is Patriarch of Antioch of the Maronites in Lebanon--a Catholic rite which allows for married priests--addressed the issue, which had been brought up by many.
While pointing out that "the Maronite Church admits married priests" and that "half of our diocesan priests are married", the Cardinal Patriarch said that "it must be recognized that if admitting married men resolves one problem, it creates others just as serious."
"A married priest", he said, "has the duty to look after his wife and family, ensuring his children receive a good education and overseeing their entry into society. ... Another difficulty facing a married priest arises if he does not enjoy a good relationship with his parishioners; his bishop cannot transfer him because of the difficulty of transferring his whole family.
Essentially, the costs of maintaining a married priest and his family must either be borne by the parish community or the priest must take a job to earn sufficient funds to support the financial needs of his family. This includes: housing, transportation, medical & dental insurance, groceries, clothing, and education, to cite just a few items. The Maronite Catholic Church only allows married priests to serve in Lebanon. Outside that country, all of their clergy are celibate.
Could they not permit female ordination in the same way? I ask because some Orthodox churches are adding diaconesses to the roster again. Apparently it fell out of common practice for 1,400 years but it was never forbidden as such.
"No." The basis for the Churchs teaching on ordination is found in the New Testament as well as in the writings of the Church Fathers.
While women could publicly pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor. 11:116), they could not teach or have authority over a man (1 Tim. 2:1114), since these were two essential functions of the clergy. Nor could women publicly question or challenge the teaching of the clergy (1 Cor. 14:3438).
The following quotations from the Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that these women were not ordained.
The Fathers rejected women's ordination, not because it was incompatible with Christian culture, but because it was incompatible with Christian faith. Thus, together with biblical declarations, the teaching of the Fathers on this issue formed the tradition of the Church that taught that priestly ordination was reserved to men. Throughout medieval times and even up until the present day, this teaching has not changed.
Further, in 1994 Pope John Paul II formally declared that the Church does not have the power to ordain women. He stated, "Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Churchs judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force. Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Churchs divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Luke 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Churchs faithful" (OrdinatioSacerdotalis 4).
Form your own religion or join one who follows your beliefs. The Catholic church rules are not yours.
As always, interesting post...
It should be noted that the priesthood of the Christian faithful is enjoyed by all baptized Christians, male and female alike.
Thanks, that was a complete and thorough response!
Thanks, that was a complete and thorough response!
Priests aren't allowed to marry anywhere, never have been, now or then, East or West. But married men can be ordained priests per the Eastern Churches. No problems there. It may seem confusing but here's the thing: you can be a married man and become a priest. You can't be ordained a priest first, and then get married.
Women priests? No, and not ever. Even if the Pope lost his mind and started ordaining women in the Sistine Chapel with the oooh-mystical sound of chanting all around and readings from the Book of Neuteronomy: no. It's not that it's not "allowed," it's that it's not "possible." In fact, that's how we'd know the Pope had lost his mind! -- or better, had been kidnapped and replaced by a somebody from the planet Erehwon -- right over there to the left of Kolob :o).
It's not something to do with the job description: women can certainly "do" preaching, praying, parish administration, whatever. It has to do with "being" --- that is, with the embodied sign. Whiuch is the very substance of a Sacrament (not a function, a sign: I can't say that enough.)
Mo' later, I don't have time to do essay-form right now...
but think: does sex (being created male or female) have embodied meaning? Yes. And in two sacraments that makes a difference. The first is Matrimony: has to be a man and a woman because they "mean" the goodness of God's creating us male and female: in some mysterious way:
"So God created man in His own image,
in the image of God created He him;
male and female created He them."
And the other Sacrament where embodied sex counts, is Holy Orders. Because the priest is not just doing the work of Christ, he is an embodied sign of Christ.
It's the "embodied sign" thing. Not the job description.
Bye for now!!
Thanks for this great post! I am going to copy it to my Word program, bump it up to font size 22, and read it a second time carefully!
And those same folks who have pushed for ordination for women for so many years, have now glommed on to the homosexual marriage movement, and have it in their heads that it is an injustice for the Church NOT to allow them to marry.
Hubris, pure and simple.
That is a hoot and is typical in all churches. God “called” her??? I think she got her lines crossed.
With the dilineation/guideline that if their wife dies, they then cannot remarry and must remain celibate.
There are more and more Anglican priests coming to the Catholic Church; I believe we have two or three in our diocese. I went to the ordination of one (along with eight other men) and his wife and grown children were there with him.