Posted on 01/04/2013 7:15:20 AM PST by xzins
Those false believers, mouthing words but not having the spirit in them..... I call them “the tares”. The older I get the more I realize the church has many tares in it.
Bflr= bump for later reading
Thanks, fish
We pray, Lord Jesus, in the power of Your Spirit, that our brother be relieved from the illness that has beset him these last few days. Amen.
Right, but God knows who is going to finish 1, 2, and 3 at thr 3rd race at Santa Anita this afternoon, because he is not bound by time, he knows the future, but that does not mean he fixed the race.
Yes, God knows the future in detail.
As you say, that doesn't mean God fixed the race, but it also doesn't mean He didn't. For example, knowing your future, he went ahead and created this world with you in it, anyway. If you are a believer, then He created this world knowing ahead of time that you would be a believer.
He predestined you.
I am with you Chaplain, because when you truly surrender all of your life to Christ, it changes you from the inside out. The way you look at life is different, and the value of everything is different, what you want to do with your time, your life, how you want to be in response to God’s word and everyone around you.
The danger to me its that we can all have that change but we can all have varying degrees of growth. That is why it is dangerous, and in my opinion, when you get people judging other people as to their success in living a Christ-like, Christ-centered, life. Undoubtedly, the people advocating and judging will see themselves at a higher percentage rate than others they judge. And I just don’t think it works that way. Moreover, I believe that is reserved for the BEMA, the Judgement Seat of Christ.
And the Lord, who knows the future before it happens, and what we will pray before we pray it, answered your prayer - yesterday!
Thank you for the prayer. And thank God for His answer, in His timing. I’ll let the more contentious worry if that means Calvin or Arminius is right...I’ll just be glad that God is beyond my imagination.
That’s why Paul in 2 Co 5 says we should examine ourselves. He doesn’t tell others to examine you.
His instruction is that we should be willing to engage in self-evaluation. It makes sense to me from a self-management standpoint.
But, I think Paul’s point is that true believers will see themselves doing these things, and that will give them assurance of their salvation.
-He predestined you-
I respectfully disagree. I feel it’s more like a timeline thing. God can view the timeline (past, future, present), but allows us to do things in that timeline. He knows and allows what is going to occur, but he does not determine it. Just my thoughts.
If God knows everything, then He knew whether you’d choose Him or not. And, then, when He created everything it was inevitable that you’d choose Him because He already knew it.
—If God knows everything, then He knew whether you’d choose Him or not. And, then, when He created everything it was inevitable that you’d choose Him because He already knew it—
God KNOWS it, He doesn’t CHOOSE it. As you just said “you’d choose Him”. (Caps are for emphasis, not yelling).
God chooses to choose those who choose His Son.
So you have to make a choice. Then God will then choose you? Isn’t that what I said. He doesn’t choose for you.
Yes, I agree, but at the same time we must realize that God did not have to create a world with justice14 in it. He could have picked a different world, but by the very act of creating this world with you in it, He foreknew you would be a believer. Therefore, by the very act of creating, He predestined you.
That’s what the bible means when it says, “those He foreknew, He predestined.”
In short. He created a world. Then we sinned. So He allowed free-will. He KNOWS who will be believers or not, but we CHOOSE whether we are not. He doesn’t CHOOSE for us.
You said, “So you have to make a choice. Then God will then choose you?...”
Yes. And before all of this, God has chosen this as His means of salvation (Peter talks about the “elect according to the foreknowledge of God”). IOW, while there is predestination involved (”For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.” - Romans 8), God leaves it up to the sinner to entrust his confidence in The Son (God “is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance,” and “Whosoever will call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”).
A preacher once likened it to a doorway to Heaven emblazoned with the words “Whosoever will” on the outside of the door, and on the inside “The elect of God” on the inside. We choose to follow God, receive His Son as Lord and Savior this side. In eternity, we will see that it was all part of His designed plan.
Wrong sequence.
Jesus is “The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” In other words, in creating God already knew that Christ would have to die.
He already knew humanity would fall.
Therefore, it goes something like this:
God anticipates our world.
Realizes Jesus must be slain to save it.
Creates our world knowing everyone who would ever be and their choices.
The fall happens.
Consider, for example, that Judas was born to betray Jesus. It was foretold that it would be by a friend for 30 pieces of silver, etc. Peter even drew lots to determine the replacement apostle for Judas because he saw the prophecy in scripture that someone else had to take Judas’ place.
Some are NOT saved, Justice. God knew that, too.
Just to add clarification in my answer to justice14’s question. The “choice” a person makes that God “chooses” to honor is the appropriation/acceptance by faith of His Son’s finished work on the cross. This is the only “choice” of ours that fits the sinner for being one of those “chosen by God”. And all of this occurs within His full foreknowledge. Nothing takes God by surprise. He knows those who will “choose” the free gift of salvation. The offer is on the table for all. Christ died for the sins of the world. Every sinner (that means every living human being) has the opportunity to be saved. But not every sinner will. And God knows this.
—Creates our world knowing everyone who would ever be and their choices.—
He KNOWS are choices. We CHOOSE our choices. This is what you just stated in the sentence above.
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